MR

I wonder why all the defenders of this lallegation, er, deed, hasn't responded to Jeremy's thread? A certified, unbiased professional engineer, mixer, voice artist takes two hours and analyzes shows...and yet NO ONE here will go in that thread and talk about it. Then you say NO evidence was put forth.

What the Fuck you all want for evidence? Tell me, I'll get it.

I don't expect any responses here either. Spineless wimps.

Rockn'deano wrote:I wonder why all the defenders of this lallegation, er, deed, hasn't responded to Jeremy's thread? A certified, unbiased professional engineer, mixer, voice artist takes two hours and analyzes shows...and yet NO ONE here will go in that thread and talk about it. Then you say NO evidence was put forth.

What the Fuck you all want for evidence? Tell me, I'll get it.

I don't expect any responses here either. Spineless wimps.

Why do you need so badly to have everyone agree with you?

Here's how proof works. You start out with a known entity. You are both starting out with bootlegs. Where did you get them? Who made them? What is the chain of custody? You both just conclude they are fine and not altered. Show me that proof. Who made them. How were they made. How were they uploaded? Where is the original tape.

I've been to soundchecks. He's singing. Do you think they have a different tape they use at soundchecks? Why would he bother with a soundcheck if he's using tapes. Have you ever stood in the front row of a venue? You can hear the dude singing. He gets the words wrong. He hits an off note. He is singing. You can throw up a dozen bootlegs and they are not going to dispute what I've seen and heard with my eyes and ears.

Actually I was about to mention this on the thread that he started, but I'll say it here instead.

A couple of hours ago I got together with some buddies of mine who are also musicians. I was telling them about your claim and about Jerremy's post. My one friend who is a keyboardist is also an engineer at a local studio in the Cleveland area, and he basically said that it would have been virtually impossible for him to have properly done an accurate match up of the vocals, he would have had to have gone in and piece by piece after piece removed everything from both recordings with the exception of the lead vocals, but including everything like crowd noise.

He explained things much more clearly than I can at the momment, and was specific about everything that would have had to have been done.

I will give him a call in a few days and ask him to e-mail me the explanation so I can explain it better myself.

Maybe I can get him to sign up and come on these boards?

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

At Dime they always list the taper. No one alters anything, and if so they
would most likely be banned for life.

I meant to say that even the crowd noise would have had to have been removed.

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

So do it.

LAWoman wrote:

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

So do it.

Which shows do you want?

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

At Dime they always list the taper. No one alters anything, and if so they
would most likely be banned for life.

Yeah, that's quite some quality control. Banned for life from a bootleg site. I know it's pristine just because they always are. That's proof to you?

Journey/Survivor wrote:Actually I was about to mention this on the thread that he started, but I'll say it here instead.

A couple of hours ago I got together with some buddies of mine who are also musicians. I was telling them about your claim and about Jerremy's post. My one friend who is a keyboardist is also an engineer at a local studio in the Cleveland area, and he basically said that it would have been virtually impossible for him to have properly done an accurate match up of the vocals, he would have had to have gone in and piece by piece after piece removed everything from both recordings with the exception of the lead vocals, but including everything like crowd noise.

He explained things much more clearly than I can at the momment, and was specific about everything that would have had to have been done.

I will give him a call in a few days and ask him to e-mail me the explanation so I can explain it better myself.

Maybe I can get him to sign up and come on these boards?

Well, it took Jeremy, a professional at this, 3 hours to do it.

Ok, I can accept that. Jeremy doesn't know what the fuck he is doing. Gotcha.

Barb, for you to go to the "origin of tape" is ridiculous. Jeremy also proved in his thread, that the tapes were NOT doctored.

You both are reaching.

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

So do it.

Which shows do you want?

I want the name of the original bootleger where when and how he taped the thing and the original, unaltered tape. You think a bootlegger is going to provide that? He'd be insane to unless he wants to be prosecuted.

LAWoman wrote:

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

At Dime they always list the taper. No one alters anything, and if so they
would most likely be banned for life.

Yeah, that's quite some quality control. Banned for life from a bootleg site. I know it's pristine just because they always are. That's proof to you?

You obviously know nothing about those communities.

Rockn'deano wrote:

Journey/Survivor wrote:Actually I was about to mention this on the thread that he started, but I'll say it here instead.

A couple of hours ago I got together with some buddies of mine who are also musicians. I was telling them about your claim and about Jerremy's post. My one friend who is a keyboardist is also an engineer at a local studio in the Cleveland area, and he basically said that it would have been virtually impossible for him to have properly done an accurate match up of the vocals, he would have had to have gone in and piece by piece after piece removed everything from both recordings with the exception of the lead vocals, but including everything like crowd noise.

He explained things much more clearly than I can at the momment, and was specific about everything that would have had to have been done.

I will give him a call in a few days and ask him to e-mail me the explanation so I can explain it better myself.

Maybe I can get him to sign up and come on these boards?

Well, it took Jeremy, a professional at this, 3 hours to do it.

Ok, I can accept that. Jeremy doesn't know what the fuck he is doing. Gotcha.

Barb, for you to go to the "origin of tape" is ridiculous. Jeremy also proved in his thread, that the tapes were NOT doctored.

You both are reaching.

Not reaching, Dean. You wanted to know what "proof" is needed. I told you. Now you say--well, it's just not altered. Believe me. There is the begining of your proof problem. And no, I don't have any idea if Jeremy knows what he is doing--and neither do you. You're taking his word for it.

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:Where is the original tape.

THAT is so easy to trace.

At Dime they always list the taper. No one alters anything, and if so they
would most likely be banned for life.

Yeah, that's quite some quality control. Banned for life from a bootleg site. I know it's pristine just because they always are. That's proof to you?

You obviously know nothing about those communities.

No, I don't participate in bootlegging. Sorry. I believe in respecting the artists wishes--but that is another topic.

Tell ya what, I'll record 2 L.A. shows with my mini disc recorder. You stand by me thru the recording process, and watch me split the songs into tracks. Then put the headphones on.

Doing what you're suggesting, "altering" bootlegs really doesn't happen, and if you were to, it would take hours & hours. Even then, you could NOT get rid of the original vocal track from the show. Impossible. I don't care how you EQ it or use phase reversal. It ain't gonna happen.

JDouglee wrote:Tell ya what, I'll record 2 L.A. shows with my mini disc recorder. You stand by me thru the recording process, and watch me split the songs into tracks. Then put the headphones on.

Doing what you're suggesting, "altering" bootlegs really doesn't happen, and if you were to, it would take hours & hours. Even then, you could NOT get rid of the original vocal track from the show. Impossible. I don't care how you EQ it or use phase reversal. It ain't gonna happen.

Well, lucky for you there aren't any L.A. shows this year. If you actually think I would stand by while someone is illegally recording a concert, you are mistaken.

LAWoman wrote:No, I don't participate in bootlegging. Sorry. I believe in respecting the artists wishes--but that is another topic.

Ok discredit a community you don't care to learn anything about. Fine no problem.

LAWoman wrote:

JDouglee wrote:Tell ya what, I'll record 2 L.A. shows with my mini disc recorder. You stand by me thru the recording process, and watch me split the songs into tracks. Then put the headphones on.

Doing what you're suggesting, "altering" bootlegs really doesn't happen, and if you were to, it would take hours & hours. Even then, you could NOT get rid of the original vocal track from the show. Impossible. I don't care how you EQ it or use phase reversal. It ain't gonna happen.

Well, lucky for you there aren't any L.A. shows this year. If you actually think I would stand by while someone is illegally recording a concert, you are mistaken.

You don't really want that proof you're demanding now do you?

LAWoman wrote: I believe in respecting the artists wishes--but that is another topic.

And I believe the Band should respect the fans....you know, the fans that pay their salaries.

Heres what I can't believe.

I can't believe that no-one is talking about the fifth Beatle...you know clarence???

Clarence was a black man who was a member of the Beatles when they first formed, and he was actually the person who wrote all of their songs. He wrote songs like "She's got a ticket to ride, the bitch don't care" And "Love me do bitch."

But then the other members kicked poor Clarence out of the band.

SNL once did a documetary about the Clarence issue, and if you listen to one of the Beatles songs backward you can hear John Lennon say to Paul McCartney "Hey Paul, what you say we kick out Clarence and steal all of his good ideas."

Interestingly Clarence looks a lot like Eddie Murphy.

JDouglee wrote:

LAWoman wrote:No, I don't participate in bootlegging. Sorry. I believe in respecting the artists wishes--but that is another topic.

Ok discredit a community you don't care to learn anything about. Fine no problem.

Go back to the original issue. Proof. You (or Dean or whoever is asserting this) have a chain of custody problem. You expect to just say: "believe me, I know it" and it's true. That's not how proof works. No problem

And as for discrediting a "community" I don't really care to participate in a "community" that goes against the specific wishes of artists (and commits crimes also, btw). But as I said--that's a different issue.

A couple of hours ago I got together with some buddies of mine who are also musicians. I was telling them about your claim and about Jerremy's post. My one friend who is a keyboardist is also an engineer at a local studio in the Cleveland area, and he basically said that it would have been virtually impossible for him to have properly done an accurate match up of the vocals, he would have had to have gone in and piece by piece after piece removed everything from both recordings with the exception of the lead vocals, but including everything like crowd noise.

It took me about 2 minutes to sync up "Seperate Ways" from Manchester with that song from Vegas.

When you load audio into recording software, you can see the waveform, and it's not hard to sync up two versions of the same song by lining them up at a clear visual point in the audio (i.e. when the drums come in at the beginning of "Seperate Ways").

Since the band is playing to a click track, every night's version of each song will be exactly the same tempo, making it very easy.

The Manchester audience recording is very good, and the vocals are very clear, it's not necessary to try to isolate them.

No, I don't participate in bootlegging. Sorry. I believe in respecting the artists wishes--but that is another topic.

If it's good enough to pipe over P.A. speakers in front of a paying crowd, it's good enough to be recorded and listened to. I'm against the selling of bootlegs, which allows someone to make a profit off of music that's not theirs, but free trading and sharing of live recordings is a good thing (unless of course your band sucks live).

LAWoman wrote:I want the name of the original bootleger where when and how he taped the thing and the original, unaltered tape. You think a bootlegger is going to provide that? He'd be insane to unless he wants to be prosecuted.

Hey Grissom,

You want each evidence packed and labeled in separate bags..???

Greg

WalrusOct9 wrote:
If it's good enough to pipe over P.A. speakers in front of a paying crowd, it's good enough to be recorded and listened to. I'm against the selling of bootlegs, which allows someone to make a profit off of music that's not theirs, but free trading and sharing of live recordings is a good thing (unless of course your band sucks live).

Well put. Agree 100%

rubiconman wrote:

LAWoman wrote:I want the name of the original bootleger where when and how he taped the thing and the original, unaltered tape. You think a bootlegger is going to provide that? He'd be insane to unless he wants to be prosecuted.

Hey Grissom,

You want each evidence packed and labeled in separate bags..???

Greg

He asked what kind of evidence I wanted. I set forth what actual evidence would be. Of course no one can get that. That's why this is all so ridiculous.

And now I've read at least 3 "experts" saying various things about how you can or cannot do various things with boots to tell if they are real, unaltered, etc. So the other thing that would be needed is an actual expert. But let's forget any proof or evidence--everyone just believe Dean. He's honest, right? I mean it's just the career of a man. Why do you need actual proof?

LAWoman wrote:
Go back to the original issue. Proof. You (or Dean or whoever is asserting this) have a chain of custody problem. You expect to just say: "believe me, I know it" and it's true. That's not how proof works. No problem
.

Ok, Barb, I found a way to do it..prove to you where they were recorded from.

I will have to upload the entire CD..because Fraudgeri doesn't greet the host city in every song, however, he does at least once per disc...so if I could do that, would you believe me?

LAWoman wrote:
And as for discrediting a "community" I don't really care to participate in a "community" that goes against the specific wishes of artists (and commits crimes also, btw). But as I said--that's a different issue.

No the issue is, you don't want to know the truth.

Go ahead, ask the band if they'll take you and a qualified sound engineer to explain the signal chain from microphone to mixing board to main PA. And also don't forget to ask what that rack full of multitrack recording equipment is for. I'm sure Elson & crew would be most accomodating.

Let us know what you find out.

Hey Barb, listen....I hear an ambulance, go chase it.

Leave your courtroom shit out of this..always seeking a technicality, or a loophole.

Career of a man? Fuck him. I hope he never works again in this business after what he is pulling.

Rockn'deano wrote:

LAWoman wrote:
Go back to the original issue. Proof. You (or Dean or whoever is asserting this) have a chain of custody problem. You expect to just say: "believe me, I know it" and it's true. That's not how proof works. No problem
.

Ok, Barb, I found a way to do it..prove to you where they were recorded from.

I will have to upload the entire CD..because Fraudgeri doesn't greet the host city in every song, however, he does at least once per disc...so if I could do that, would you believe me?

Oh, jeez--that is how you are figuring these things out? By the name of the city Steve says? How does that prove where, when, how, something was recorded and it wasn't altered. You have got to be kidding me.

Rockn'deano wrote:Hey Barb, listen....I hear an ambulance, go chase it.

Leave your courtroom shit out of this..always seeking a technicality, or a loophole.

Career of a man? Fuck him. I hope he never works again in this business after what he is pulling.

OK. I'm done with you. I should have known better than to acutally use reason. Knock yourself out if you think actual evidence is "a technicality".

So you really don't want the proof now that you know it can be provided??

You ask for something and then threatened to turn in the person who would give you what you ask for?? LOL!!

You very self righteously claim you don't associate with "communities" that are doing something illegal yet you associate yourself with people who for weeks have been coming in here posting people's names and home addresses on an internet message board??? Threatening them with bodily harm??? If you are as smart as you want people to think you are, then you know that is also against the law so your hands are already dirty.

LAWoman wrote:

JDouglee wrote:Tell ya what, I'll record 2 L.A. shows with my mini disc recorder. You stand by me thru the recording process, and watch me split the songs into tracks. Then put the headphones on.

Doing what you're suggesting, "altering" bootlegs really doesn't happen, and if you were to, it would take hours & hours. Even then, you could NOT get rid of the original vocal track from the show. Impossible. I don't care how you EQ it or use phase reversal. It ain't gonna happen.

Well, lucky for you there aren't any L.A. shows this year. If you actually think I would stand by while someone is illegally recording a concert, you are mistaken.