MR

Maybe JSS or Jeremey can chime in here...How is it that some singers lose their voices and others don't as men get older?

Is it true what Herbie said in his famous interview, that men in there mid 30's have another change of voice like they did when they were in their teens?

What must be done for a singer to maintain his voice?

I am very curious about this as I saw a reply by Jeremey in another post that he has been singing the Journey catalog with his band for 5 years every weekend for almost 3 hours at time. I also know his youtube performances are somewhat recent and he still sounds awesome. Almost seems he his hitting all those high notes with ease.

If anyone has any input here, it would be much appreciated.

Great question. If anyone could answer this, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

Great question. If anyone could answer this in terms of true longevity, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? He brought the house down. Best performance of the whole night. His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

didn't mean to double post.

Vocalsmanvocals wrote:Maybe JSS or Jeremey can chime in here...How is it that some singers lose their voices and others don't as men get older?

Why don't you ask Peter?

nikkib703 wrote:Great question. If anyone could answer this, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

i think they all have problems with age,, liza minelli , striesand, peter ect..

didn't mean to double post.

If you didn't mean to the first time then why are you still doing it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng0XMF13pfE

I know not everyone here is into jazz standards, but this is worth listenting to. Tony Bennett is unreal at his age. Great performance.

nikkib703 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng0XMF13pfE

I know not everyone here is into jazz standards, but this is worth listenting to. Tony Bennett is unreal at his age. Great performance.

He's great. The man has style and grace. Classy man. He is an accomplished artist not only as a singer but also as a painter.

Vocalsmanvocals wrote:Maybe JSS or Jeremey can chime in here...How is it that some singers lose their voices and others don't as men get older?

Is it true what Herbie said in his famous interview, that men in there mid 30's have another change of voice like they did when they were in their teens?

It's not just men: The human singing voice is not fully mature until after 30. That's a fact. I learned it in my Classical Vocal Study.

It's especially true for Steve - he was able to maintain that Angelic-type voice for his teens / 20s....then, "Frontiers" ~ BAM! ~ lower register.
(Also....the intense wear & tear of album/tour/album/tour/TV Show/etc. did NOT help in his ability to sustain either.)

What must be done for a singer to maintain his voice?

Healty lifestyle, no drugs/cigarettes, routinely working out, and proper Vocal Technique / Training....also, cutting down on speaking for a few hours before a performance (which is what Steve did, and was misunderstood as "divaness").

nikkib703 wrote:Great question. If anyone could answer this in terms of true longevity, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? He brought the house down. Best performance of the whole night. His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

I have gotten into, um, "discussions" with people of his generation about his ability to still sing well at his age:

With all due respect, Mr. Bennett did not sing Rock Music OR go on insane tours a la Journey, back in their heyday....so therefore, he was able to keep his Vocal ability. Crooning is NOT the same as singing Rock music.

Vocalsmanvocals wrote:Maybe JSS or Jeremey can chime in here...How is it that some singers lose their voices and others don't as men get older?

Is it true what Herbie said in his famous interview, that men in there mid 30's have another change of voice like they did when they were in their teens?

What must be done for a singer to maintain his voice?

I am very curious about this as I saw a reply by Jeremey in another post that he has been singing the Journey catalog with his band for 5 years every weekend for almost 3 hours at time. I also know his youtube performances are somewhat recent and he still sounds awesome. Almost seems he his hitting all those high notes with ease.

If anyone has any input here, it would be much appreciated.

Well, as a vocalist myself, at almost 32... I can say some of it has to do with practice and technique but MOST of it is taking CARE of your vocal cords...

Singing from your throat, using your 'head voice' as it is sometimes called, destroys the vocal cords by stetching (and eventually tearing) them...

This is why you hear singers and vocal coaches telling you to sing from your diaghram... essentially pushing the air from your lungs past the vocal cords and then changing the shape of the cords to produce the desired tone. the head voice, uses much less air but puts more strain on the cords...

Contrary to popular belief... the vocal chords are NOT made of muscle...

IT is not like working out... where if you stretch them forcefully, they will repair themselves and be stronger...

That's a myth and can seriously damage your chords permanently.

The vocal chords are actually made of mucous membranes... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_chords

Longevity of the vocal cords is based on a lot of factors but to sum them up...

1.) Diet
2.) Exercise
3.) Practice
4.) Restraint (from pushing the chords too hard)

Hopefully this answers some of your questions... and although I don't know everything, the preceding is what I've learned in my years as a vocalist...

tragchk wrote:

Vocalsmanvocals wrote:Maybe JSS or Jeremey can chime in here...How is it that some singers lose their voices and others don't as men get older?

Is it true what Herbie said in his famous interview, that men in there mid 30's have another change of voice like they did when they were in their teens?

It's not just men: The human singing voice is not fully mature until after 30. That's a fact. I learned it in my Classical Vocal Study.

It's especially true for Steve - he was able to maintain that Angelic-type voice for his teens / 20s....then, "Frontiers" ~ BAM! ~ lower register.
(Also....the intense wear & tear of album/tour/album/tour/TV Show/etc. did NOT help in his ability to sustain either.)

What must be done for a singer to maintain his voice?

Healty lifestyle, no drugs/cigarettes, routinely working out, and proper Vocal Technique / Training....also, cutting down on speaking for a few hours before a performance (which is what Steve did, and was misunderstood as "divaness").

nikkib703 wrote:Great question. If anyone could answer this in terms of true longevity, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? He brought the house down. Best performance of the whole night. His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

I have gotten into, um, "discussions" with people of his generation about his ability to still sing well at his age:

With all due respect, Mr. Bennett did not sing Rock Music OR go on insane tours a la Journey, back in their heyday....so therefore, he was able to keep his Vocal ability. Crooning is NOT the same as singing Rock music.

I agree 100%...

JourneySinger wrote:

Vocalsmanvocals wrote:If anyone has any input here, it would be much appreciated.

Well, as a vocalist myself, at almost 32... I can say some of it has to do with practice and technique but MOST of it is taking CARE of your vocal cords...

Singing from your throat, using your 'head voice' as it is sometimes called, destroys the vocal cords by stetching (and eventually tearing) them...

This is why you hear singers and vocal coaches telling you to sing from your diaghram... essentially pushing the air from your lungs past the vocal cords and then changing the shape of the cords to produce the desired tone. the head voice, uses much less air but puts more strain on the cords...

Contrary to popular belief... the vocal chords are NOT made of muscle...

IT is not like working out... where if you stretch them forcefully, they will repair themselves and be stronger...

That's a myth and can seriously damage your chords permanently.

The vocal chords are actually made of mucous membranes... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_chords

Longevity of the vocal cords is based on a lot of factors but to sum them up...

1.) Diet
2.) Exercise
3.) Practice
4.) Restraint (from pushing the chords too hard)

Hopefully this answers some of your questions... and although I don't know everything, the preceding is what I've learned in my years as a vocalist...

I'm really glad you explained that. I had no idea. BTW, you are an awesome vocalist.

Your "true" vocal cords are actually ligaments, but there are folds of mucous membranes that sit above them sometimes called "false" vocal cords.

tragchk wrote:

Vocalsmanvocals wrote:Maybe JSS or Jeremey can chime in here...How is it that some singers lose their voices and others don't as men get older?

Is it true what Herbie said in his famous interview, that men in there mid 30's have another change of voice like they did when they were in their teens?

It's not just men: The human singing voice is not fully mature until after 30. That's a fact. I learned it in my Classical Vocal Study.

It's especially true for Steve - he was able to maintain that Angelic-type voice for his teens / 20s....then, "Frontiers" ~ BAM! ~ lower register.
(Also....the intense wear & tear of album/tour/album/tour/TV Show/etc. did NOT help in his ability to sustain either.)

What must be done for a singer to maintain his voice?

Healty lifestyle, no drugs/cigarettes, routinely working out, and proper Vocal Technique / Training....also, cutting down on speaking for a few hours before a performance (which is what Steve did, and was misunderstood as "divaness").

nikkib703 wrote:Great question. If anyone could answer this in terms of true longevity, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? He brought the house down. Best performance of the whole night. His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

I have gotten into, um, "discussions" with people of his generation about his ability to still sing well at his age:

With all due respect, Mr. Bennett did not sing Rock Music OR go on insane tours a la Journey, back in their heyday....so therefore, he was able to keep his Vocal ability. Crooning is NOT the same as singing Rock music.

True, but the man does sing regularly and has been dong so for decades. Don't you think that could create some kind of wear & tear on the voice if not properly cared for? You gotta admit, when he's belting out a note, he does have the ability to hold it well and the voice sounds well considering his age.

nikkib703 wrote:

tragchk wrote:

nikkib703 wrote:Great question. If anyone could answer this in terms of true longevity, it would probably be Tony Bennett. Did you see him on the AI finale? He brought the house down. Best performance of the whole night. His voice sounds incredible, and he's 80 years old.

I have gotten into, um, "discussions" with people of his generation about his ability to still sing well at his age:

With all due respect, Mr. Bennett did not sing Rock Music OR go on insane tours a la Journey, back in their heyday....so therefore, he was able to keep his Vocal ability. Crooning is NOT the same as singing Rock music.

True, but the man does sing regularly and has been dong so for decades. Don't you think that could create some kind of wear & tear on the voice if not properly cared for? You gotta admit, when he's belting out a note, he does have the ability to hold it well and the voice sounds well considering his age.

Well then, it must have something to do with good genetics, proper care, rest, and diet....

Also, his physical appearance has a lot to do with it.....he is not frail at ALL.....still has great muscle tone.

Tony, back in the day:


Tony, on AI:

Look at Shirley Bassey she is 70 and still has the same power. She just sang at Glastonbury this weekend and sounded fine.
She does belt it out, unlike Tony Bennet.
BUT she doesn't do as many shows in a row as Steve did back in the day. I still marvel that he pulled that off for so long without having problems sooner.

Shirley is what is known as a 'natural' she could just do it. The power was just there.
However, I did read that when she reached a certain age she did go for vocal coaching to help her maintain her power. It has obviously worked!
I think that quite often an older/maturer voice can sound richer than the younger one.

I sing for my living. I have no day job to support me so it is not a hobby, it's my livelihood.
Our show is 90 minutes a night, 3 or 4 nights a week. I am 45 and have been singing for many years.
I try not to talk much before or in between sets. I drink water steadily all through the day of a performance and stay hydrated.
I do not smoke or drink alcohol. I don't drink hot drinks before or during a show, neither do I drink cold drinks. Room temperature water is all. I never use throat lozenges or sprays etc.
And I am a nightmare if anyone with a cold or sore throat comes near me.
If I feel dry I will use my steam inhaler. And to ward off bugs and sniffles I eat healthy and have raw garlic frequently - it works wonders on killing nasties lurking in your throat or nasal passages. Stinks but it works!

I believe that taking care of yourself, eating well, drinking lots of water, getting plenty of rest/sleep and resting the voice is the key to longevity.
And the other main thing is - to sing within your range. Don't strain.
Your voice comes from how nature built you - your lungs, diaphragm, sinuses, nose, vocal chords etc and how they are built will determine what your voice will be like. It's up to you to hone it, perfect it and make the best of what you have.

In the "Rock'n'roll singers survival manual" the author Mark Baxter answers some questions - and someone asks, 'why is it some people are just natural singers?' and Mark says, in the same way that tall people make good basketball players. They are built that way.

The answer is look after your instrument and it will enjoy a long and healthy life.

http://www.mailbigfile.com/77d7a08aa5ee ... tFiles.php

Susie, I think you summed it up for all of us with that post.

nikkib703 wrote:Susie, I think you summed it up for all of us with that post.

SusieP wrote:Your voice comes from how nature built you - your lungs, diaphragm, sinuses, nose, vocal chords etc and how they are built will determine what your voice will be like. It's up to you to hone it, perfect it and make the best of what you have.

In the "Rock'n'roll singers survival manual" the author Mark Baxter answers some questions - and someone asks, 'why is it some people are just natural singers?' and Mark says, in the same way that tall people make good basketball players. They are built that way.

The answer is look after your instrument and it will enjoy a long and healthy life.

Hey SusieP

Your comment about "how nature built you" is right on the money...all I could think of is Connie Francis - Her Record Co. made her get a nose job to appear "less ethnic"(!! )...

....and the result was devastating to her:

http://home.earthlink.net/~nuttbait/connie_francis.htm

"HER '60s LOOK: Ultra conservative, as per her strict Italian upbringing, Connie looked and dressed like the very parents some '60s rebels were rebelling against. She had thick, full, well-styled hair, lots of makeup, and a conservative attractiveness that was all safety and convention. In '67 she got a nose job, but she admitted it was botched and caused her to suffer permanent vocal damage. In the '70s she would have several operations hoping to repair her nose and her voice in an effort to regain the power and vocal range she'd had as a teen."

Thanks everyone for the great responses

You sound great, as usual, SusieP! Love your voice!

Jeremy'sTXFan wrote:
I'm really glad you explained that. I had no idea. BTW, you are an awesome vocalist.

Thank you for the compliment... I can only hope that I make the right connections and find the musicians and management I need to do what Susie is doing... making a living from her music...

Melissa wrote:Your "true" vocal cords are actually ligaments, but there are folds of mucous membranes that sit above them sometimes called "false" vocal cords.

Melissa, thank you for adding that piece... the ligament you're speaking of is called the 'Ventricular Ligament' and is not the entire vocal cord itself, rather a piece of it... here's another Wikipedia article to peruse...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_chords

(As posts over forums can sometimes be misconstrued, I meant this post in a serious conversational way and not to be demeaning or know-it-all...)

Please let me know if you have other information... I'm all abotu learning new things...

TVL wrote:You sound great, as usual, SusieP! Love your voice!

Thanks mate.
Thought I'd sneak in that clip, I've been told I have a 'soothing' voice on it, and I figured we all need a little calming down on here after what happened in the Journey camp.

Dennis Deyong still has it too, and yes before someone makes the remark, he does/can at times look like Tony Bennett...
Anyway, his voice has held up and actually gotten better. He believes it has a lot to do with taking care of himself and his voice. Not drinking or smoking, continueing singing, but not overdoing it, living a healthy life, some of it's just talent/fourtune, knowing how to use what you got when you shouldn't, and when you shouldn't.
Sometimes it just boils down to talent and fortune.
I'm going to really get slammed for this one, but Michael Sweet of Stryper, yes Stryper (and if all you know them for is Honestly/bumble bee outfits, don't just how they rocked and how talented they were and it all got lost with the image and what they sang about)
Anyway, back on point, Michael Sweet will be singing at the Boston tribute. If anyone here is going, they can hear what I am talking about. Unreal voice. Rock or ballads. When I would play Stryper for people and not tell them who they were, they would be blown away at how they rocked and Michael's voice.
My point is that his voice too has held up amazingly, if not better. Again, good clean living. Never stopped singing, but did't over do it. Graned, he's not as old as some of the people we are talking about, but old enough to be included in older voices that have held up.
I have talked to both of lthem about how amazing their voices have held up and why they think that is.
Of course Michael will say it was God and just pure God given fortune talent, but he will also say it was living a good healthy life, not overdoing it, and vocal training when in trouble.
Dennis, being the joker he is, hard to get a straight answer, but when you can, he basically believes it was how he lived and sang.
Me, myself, I am older and can still sing well too. I can say that living clean and the fact that I don't sing much, but enough to keep up is what has kept my voice nice. I always was able to sing though, never any training, so for me too, I have always been fortunate.

JourneySinger wrote:

Jeremy'sTXFan wrote:
I'm really glad you explained that. I had no idea. BTW, you are an awesome vocalist.

Thank you for the compliment... I can only hope that I make the right connections and find the musicians and management I need to do what Susie is doing... making a living from her music...

Like I say, look after your instrument and it will serve you well.
To make our living at it we had to go down the covers route, however, but, I made a choice, do a 9 to 5 job and be unhappy, or sing covers and be content.
I chose the latter.
Tougher to make a living at it when doing original stuff, though.

JourneySinger wrote:

Melissa wrote:Your "true" vocal cords are actually ligaments, but there are folds of mucous membranes that sit above them sometimes called "false" vocal cords.

Melissa, thank you for adding that piece... the ligament you're speaking of is called the 'Ventricular Ligament' and is not the entire vocal cord itself, rather a piece of it... here's another Wikipedia article to peruse...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_chords

(As posts over forums can sometimes be misconstrued, I meant this post in a serious conversational way and not to be demeaning or know-it-all...)

Please let me know if you have other information... I'm all abotu learning new things...

Have you read the Mark Baxter book I quoted from? It's quite an interesting read.
A lot of it you'll know already but there are lots of bits about vocal folds and chords and all that stuff.
May be worth you having a look at it, if you aren't already familiar with it.