MR

This gets brought up from time to time, so I thought we could discuss it. I frequent several classic rock band forums that have had singers who were replaced (Van Halen, Journey, etc.). I have found that a certain percentage of the fans on those forums believe that to be a true fan, you must love and embrace every version of the band since its inception. I happen to be someone who does not believe that way.

Should a classic car lover be required to love every version of his favorite car to qualify as a true car lover? For example, the Ford Mustang changed its look drastically in the 70's, but has since returned to the older look and feel. Should the 60's Mustang lovers be required to like the 70's, 80's and 90's versions of the Mustang in order to be a true Mustang fan? I think not.

I think that the battles between singer fans should be a separate topic, and not be associated with being a "true fan" of a specific band. Just because you didn't like Steve Augeri singing for Journey doesn't mean you are not a true Journey fan anymore than being a true U.S. patriot requires you to love George W. Bush. I personally have no good memories of Steve Augeri singing for Journey, but I am still one of the biggest Journey fans on the planet. I may never support Journey replacing Steve Perry with anyone - but I still love Journey. They are a permanent part of my music collection and are my all-time favorite band next to Rush (only because I'm a drummer - Neil Peart is da man!). But that shouldn't mean that I have to worship their newest lead singer, or the last one, or the one before that.

No. Simple as that.

I wouldn't insist that train of thought upon any other fan, but myself...yeah, I pretty much like/love every incarnation of this band to date.

Obviously recent events soured that love...we'll have to see where to from here.

No, I don't think so!

Then again, I'm probably only saying that because I can't stand Augeri. But we all have ideas of true fandom, after all!

I actually did believe that when Steve A came on board. I thought, I am a Journey fan, I will follow what they do.

Boy has that changed.

I'm a true Journey fan, by and far, and love EVERY incarnation of the band. Here are my rankings in terms of overall enjoyment:

1. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Dunbar/Tickner
2. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Dunbar/Perry
3. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Smith/Perry
3. Schon/Valory/Cain/Smith/Perry
4. Schon/Jackson/Cain/Baird/Perry
5. Schon/Valory/Cain/Castronovo/Augeri
6. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Dunbar

Very well stated! Same goes for anything along this line... TV shows, actors... authors...

Relating to another current thread - I'm a Stephen King fan - I do not get into everything he writes, does that mean I'm not a true fan? NO. I'm a Johnny Depp fan... amazing actor... does that mean I think Charlie & The Chocolate Factory was a good idea? *shakes head*. Does not make me not a true fan. Screw people who say stuff like that.

No.

I consider myself a true Journey fan even though I only enjoyed the SP and JSS eras......sorry the Augeri era just didn't do anything for me, musically or vocally. I also consider myself a true Bon Jovi fan even though I can't stand that "This Left Feels Right" crap they put out (sorry JoePa ). You don't have to love absolutely everything your favorite bands do or have ever done to be a true fan.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:Very well stated! Same goes for anything along this line... TV shows, actors... authors...

Relating to another current thread - I'm a Stephen King fan - I do not get into everything he writes, does that mean I'm not a true fan? NO. I'm a Johnny Depp fan... amazing actor... does that mean I think Charlie & The Chocolate Factory was a good idea? *shakes head*. Does not make me not a true fan. Screw people who say stuff like that.

Too funny, those are my thoughts too.

It should...but you dont have to like the decisions they make. I LOVE THE PACKERS... but i hate some of the player decisions they made during the 99-04 time. same with Journey, some of their choices in the last 3 years are WTF---but the concerts have still been A GRADE. (even with Steve A)

Rick

That's a good question. Cars are an easier answer as I can't think of one car that really lost it's core "being" or appeal. Pony cars struggled in the late 70's and early 80's due to emissions but they made a good comeback when power delivery was available.

With that being said, I think the answer is no on the original question. I think a true fan owes the band an objective review of every incarnation but if the core changes, I don't think you have to like that vintage of the band. I've loved almost every incarnation of Journey, including when Steve Augeri fronted the band. I didn't care for Journey when JSS fronted the band. To me, one of the core attractions of the band changed for me. By no means do I think JSS is not a great performer, excellent front man, or great vocalist. It's just that the one of the core attractions of Journey changed enough for me that I didn't find it appealing anymore.

With that being said, I'm not looking for a Perry clone going forward. But I do expect to hear that vocal vibe/tone that originally attracted me to Journey. I don't think Chalfant, Hugo, or Hunsicker are clones of Perry's voice. However, I do think they have enough of that same attraction to drive the "Legacy" sound forward.

Jason Kelty could be pretty much a clone of Perry's sound from the late 70's. I wouldn't be apposed to him as that sound is one of the main attractions in addition to Schon's guitar and those killer layered vocal harmonies.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Third singer change in less than a year, with little chance of anything
new or "creative" in the future = WTF!?!?

Why dont u just wait & see? U havent even heard Arnel sing anything so I suppose u havent heard anything he's written either, right? Want me to send u some? Just ask. Then u can give an "informed" opinion. Ok?

You know, I think most folks around here would give Arnel a fair shake once something is available to hear. However, with folks like you pushing him at every turn, that could be enough to sour most open minded folks. Would you please give it a rest for once in a row? I don't know how you're capable of speaking with Arnel's cock in your mouth all day. Damn!

ArnelRox wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Third singer change in less than a year, with little chance of anything
new or "creative" in the future = WTF!?!?

Why dont u just wait & see? U havent even heard Arnel sing anything so I suppose u havent heard anything he's written either, right? Want me to send u some? Just ask. Then u can give an "informed" opinion. Ok?

Aaron wrote:With that being said, I'm not looking for a Perry clone going forward. But I do expect to hear that vocal vibe/tone that originally attracted me to Journey. I don't think Chalfant, Hugo, or Hunsicker are clones of Perry's voice. However, I do think they have enough of that same attraction to drive the "Legacy" sound forward.

Jason Kelty could be pretty much a clone of Perry's sound from the late 70's. I wouldn't be apposed to him as that sound is one of the main attractions in addition to Schon's guitar and those killer layered vocal harmonies.

Arnel is no Perry clone. He has his own stylings but he has the vibe/tone u speak of. I love Chalfant's & Hugo's voices on their original material but after hearing Chalfant's Journey CD, I'm not sure I want him fronting the band & Hugo doing Journey is great, but there's something missing. Jeremey has a great voice & he could have been the right guy for the job. I dont know how Jason Kelty sounds today so I cant comment on him fairly. But Arnel's voice touches my soul more than the aforementiond (no offense to them). I think together w/Neal's guitar & Jon's keys, his voice will blow the fans away.

We are all well aware, many times over, on your position. GEEZ!

ArnelRox wrote:

Aaron wrote:With that being said, I'm not looking for a Perry clone going forward. But I do expect to hear that vocal vibe/tone that originally attracted me to Journey. I don't think Chalfant, Hugo, or Hunsicker are clones of Perry's voice. However, I do think they have enough of that same attraction to drive the "Legacy" sound forward.

Jason Kelty could be pretty much a clone of Perry's sound from the late 70's. I wouldn't be apposed to him as that sound is one of the main attractions in addition to Schon's guitar and those killer layered vocal harmonies.

Arnel is no Perry clone. He has his own stylings but he has the vibe/tone u speak of. I love Chalfant's & Hugo's voices on their original material but after hearing Chalfant's Journey CD, I'm not sure I want him fronting the band & Hugo doing Journey is great, but there's something missing. Jeremey has a great voice & he could have been the right guy for the job. I dont know how Jason Kelty sounds today so I cant comment on him fairly. But Arnel's voice touches my soul more than the aforementiond (no offense to them). I think together w/Neal's guitar & Jon's keys, his voice will blow the fans away.

I liked every incarnation except the Augeri version. I was so stoked about Soto, but will always like the Perry/Rollie version the best.

Departure is most excellent.

ArnelRox wrote:Why dont u just wait & see? U havent even heard Arnel sing anything so I suppose u havent heard anything he's written either, right?

I am planning to go forward with an open mind regarding Arnel. If Journey tours the USA and I start reading positive reviews of the shows with Arnel, I would probably consider plunking down $35.00 to go see them if they play our State Fair grandstand. If Arnel sounds better than Augeri or Soto on the Perry covers, then I guess it could be the next best thing to Perry as far as audio goes. But a lot of what Perry brought to the stage was his passion, enthusiasm, charisma, spontaneity, sensuality, and on and on. Perry was not just a good voice - he was an entertainer. The jury is still out on the latest Perry replacement, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not jump on the hate-Arnel bandwagon just because it's driving by and looking for passengers.

Aaron wrote:You know, I think most folks around here would give Arnel a fair shake once something is available to hear. However, with folks like you pushing him at every turn, that could be enough to sour most open minded folks. Would you please give it a rest for once in a row? I don't know how you're capable of speaking with Arnel's cock in your mouth all day. Damn!

First of all, I'm typing, not speaking. Does that explain it?

When did we get the double standard that u can express ur opinion that Arnel is wrong for Journey, but I cant say how I feel?

Aaron wrote:We are all well aware, many times over, on your position. GEEZ!

We're all aware of ur position too. It hasnt stopped u from stating it again .... & again .... & again.

Aaron wrote:You know, I think most folks around here would give Arnel a fair shake once something is available to hear. However, with folks like you pushing him at every turn, that could be enough to sour most open minded folks.

Exactly what she's doing to me dude.

RaiderFan wrote:

Aaron wrote:You know, I think most folks around here would give Arnel a fair shake once something is available to hear. However, with folks like you pushing him at every turn, that could be enough to sour most open minded folks.

Exactly what she's doing to me dude.

Yeah but u hate everything I say anyway. I'm surprised u even read my posts.

But hey, have a happy Thanksgiving. All the best to the family.

ProgRocker53 wrote:I'm a true Journey fan, by and far, and love EVERY incarnation of the band. Here are my rankings in terms of overall enjoyment:

1. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Dunbar/Tickner
2. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Dunbar/Perry
3. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Smith/Perry
3. Schon/Valory/Cain/Smith/Perry
4. Schon/Jackson/Cain/Baird/Perry
5. Schon/Valory/Cain/Castronovo/Augeri
6. Schon/Valory/Rolie/Dunbar

You left my man Soto out. Boo!

ArnelRox wrote:

RaiderFan wrote:

Aaron wrote:You know, I think most folks around here would give Arnel a fair shake once something is available to hear. However, with folks like you pushing him at every turn, that could be enough to sour most open minded folks.

Exactly what she's doing to me dude.

Yeah but u hate everything I say anyway. I'm surprised u even read my posts.

But hey, have a happy Thanksgiving. All the best to the family.

Uh, no I was right there against Arnel bashing and all for giving the guy the same shot Soto got. But all your Arnel's singing touched my soul and tickled my loins stuff is about to make me sick.

Who knows the true answer to this question? I know for me, as long as the sound is good and they put out new material my answer is yes. I am excited for whatever the future holds for Journey, just let it include a new CD.

RaiderFan wrote:But all your Arnel's singing touched my soul and tickled my loins stuff is about to make me sick.

So it's ok for someone to say Perry touches their soul or Soto touches their soul, but no matter what I say, it makes u sick. Oh puhleeze this is so transparent. U hate everything I've ever said on this board. U hate me. If I said the sky is blue, u would argue that it isnt just b/c I said it. I tried to let it go & say happy thanksgiving but u cant even do that b/c u hate me so much. Whatever. Carry on, knock urself out.

ArnelRox wrote:

RaiderFan wrote:But all your Arnel's singing touched my soul and tickled my loins stuff is about to make me sick.

So it's ok for someone to say Perry touches their soul or Soto touches their soul, but no matter what I say, it makes u sick. Oh puhleeze this is so transparent. U hate everything I've ever said on this board. U hate me. If I said the sky is blue, u would argue that it isnt just b/c I said it. I tried to let it go & say happy thanksgiving but u cant even do that b/c u hate me so much. Whatever. Carry on, knock urself out.

I, for one, am excited to see what Arnel offers for the Journey future. Keep on keeping on man, they blasted Augeri also when he stepped in.

liked every incarnation . I was so stoked about Soto, but will always like the Perry/Rollie version the best.

I just dont see any reason to embrace the newest due to the fact I dont see any hint of new music coming forward. They were gun ho with JSS and then cain said they wanted to live on their legacy and signifies to me Dirty dozen county fair tours

Aaron wrote: I think a true fan owes the band an objective review of every incarnation but if the core changes, I don't think you have to like that vintage of the band.

I think that is a very important point. I think a "true fan" SHOULD praise what deserves praising and criticize what needs criticizing. A think a "true fan" that has been with the band through it all almost has a RESPONSIBILITY to voice those opinions...good and band. It is obvious, with our access to information, that "we" can be more educated than ever before. But that is a double-edged sword because I know that my Journey "loving" has taken a beating over the past year or so. And I do not like everything this band has done. But I still follow them....because I am a fan.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Aaron wrote: I think a true fan owes the band an objective review of every incarnation but if the core changes, I don't think you have to like that vintage of the band.

I think that is a very important point. I think a "true fan" SHOULD praise what deserves praising and criticize what needs criticizing. A think a "true fan" that has been with the band through it all almost has a RESPONSIBILITY to voice those opinions...good and band. It is obvious, with our access to information, that "we" can be more educated than ever before. But that is a double-edged sword because I know that my Journey "loving" has taken a beating over the past year or so. And I do not like everything this band has done. But I still follow them....because I am a fan.

Amen, and I'll be right there beside you!