MR

With journey recording the old classics with Arnel, does this mean no more money for Steve Perry and no more reissues with perry on it? Seems like they are trying to erase the perry recordings and go all out with arnel?

Just wondering, i dont really have a problem with it as long as he does the songs justice. Which from what ive heard live he does.

The re-issues are out of the current band's control. Sony can do what they live with the material.

Which I guess is exactly why they are doing a re-record of 11 classics, to give themselves some control over some tunes.

Andrew wrote:The re-issues are out of the current band's control. Sony can do what they live with the material.

Which I guess is exactly why they are doing a re-record of 11 classics, to give themselves some control over some tunes.

But what control do they need??? For what???
To start selling Arnel-sung Classics to advertisers for commercials?
I don't understand how they could need more control if they already own the songs.

Are you implying that, say they re-record DSB, and a show like AI wants to use it.
Could they just go direct to the Band/Walmart and pay for rights to use the Arnel-version,
and not owe Sony or Perry anything???

I was never a business major so I am trying to figure this out.
Is that the gain in this decision? (which I personally think is a Bad Decision)

Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".



PS People, don't worry about SP being "driven out" of peoples memories / consciousness...after watching a few of SP's youtube videos and comparing them to AP...there is NOTHING to worry about. AP couldn't carry SP's sweat-soaked microphone.

Out.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

Andrew wrote:The re-issues are out of the current band's control. Sony can do what they live with the material.

Which I guess is exactly why they are doing a re-record of 11 classics, to give themselves some control over some tunes.

But what control do they need??? For what???
To start selling Arnel-sung Classics to advertisers for commercials?
I don't understand how they could need more control if they already own the songs.

Are you implying that, say they re-record DSB, and a show like AI wants to use it.
Could they just go direct to the Band/Walmart and pay for rights to use the Arnel-version,
and not owe Sony or Perry anything???

I was never a business major so I am trying to figure this out.
Is that the gain in this decision? (which I personally think is a Bad Decision)

I could be mistaken here, but I believe Perry (and band members) only own the song copyrights. Sony would own the recordings themselves as they paid for the studio time. It's very confusing how it all works. If they re-record, Perry would only get money from the new recordings if they got airplay because He still owns the copyrights. He wouldn't have any say with the re-records whatsoever.

Again, I could be mistaken, but I believe that's how it works.

G.I.Jim wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

Andrew wrote:The re-issues are out of the current band's control. Sony can do what they live with the material.

Which I guess is exactly why they are doing a re-record of 11 classics, to give themselves some control over some tunes.

But what control do they need??? For what???
To start selling Arnel-sung Classics to advertisers for commercials?
I don't understand how they could need more control if they already own the songs.

Are you implying that, say they re-record DSB, and a show like AI wants to use it.
Could they just go direct to the Band/Walmart and pay for rights to use the Arnel-version,
and not owe Sony or Perry anything???

I was never a business major so I am trying to figure this out.
Is that the gain in this decision? (which I personally think is a Bad Decision)

I could be mistaken here, but I believe Perry (and band members) only own the song copyrights. Sony would own the recordings themselves as they paid for the studio time. It's very confusing how it all works. If they re-record, Perry would only get money from the new recordings if they got airplay because He still owns the copyrights. He wouldn't have any say with the re-records whatsoever.

Again, I could be mistaken, but I believe that's how it works.

perry would also get a percentage of sales as a songwriter, i believe

G.I.Jim wrote:

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

Andrew wrote:The re-issues are out of the current band's control. Sony can do what they live with the material.

Which I guess is exactly why they are doing a re-record of 11 classics, to give themselves some control over some tunes.

But what control do they need??? For what???
To start selling Arnel-sung Classics to advertisers for commercials?
I don't understand how they could need more control if they already own the songs.

Are you implying that, say they re-record DSB, and a show like AI wants to use it.
Could they just go direct to the Band/Walmart and pay for rights to use the Arnel-version,
and not owe Sony or Perry anything???

I was never a business major so I am trying to figure this out.
Is that the gain in this decision? (which I personally think is a Bad Decision)

I could be mistaken here, but I believe Perry (and band members) only own the song copyrights. Sony would own the recordings themselves as they paid for the studio time. It's very confusing how it all works. If they re-record, Perry would only get money from the new recordings if they got airplay because He still owns the copyrights. He wouldn't have any say with the re-records whatsoever.

Again, I could be mistaken, but I believe that's how it works.

That's what I mean.
Is this a way for the band to be able to "rent" out these songs to the
highest bidder for use in other outlets (movies, commercials, tv shows...)
and not have to wory about paying Sony and/or Perry or getting their permission?

I'm sure that's all this boils down to.
And I guess it makes sense from a $$$ standpoint for the current line-up.
But it is REALLY bad timing.
The disc of re-recorded stuff is take so much attention away from the new material.
Everyone, whether it be fans, critics, Djs, is gonna spend more time
scrutinizing over and talking about THAT music than they are the New Music.

They're already heading down the same path they were on w/Augeri;
Living off the past. I just have never understood this since the quality
of the music on Arrival was pretty damn good and a few songs
on Generations had potential; coulda been better had the ENTIRE band
been as inspired and driven as Augeri to put that album together.

It's all about the money, isn't it? Forget about the songs/music. Do they want control so they can cheapen the songs on hot dog commercials and crap like that? They've done well with spots in t.v. shows like the Sopranos and The Real O.C. - The White Sox World Series ...those shows boosted up their sales on iTunes, and the CDS, right? So what more do they want?
Without Steve Perry's input & fighting for the songs & their use this isn't gonna be good...JRNY & Co. don't seem to have the same sensibility.

BTW, I was listening to Mark & Brian last Friday and a musician was on there mentioning covering Journey when he wants to get the crowd going...they were all joking about the new singer - how he was slapping peoples hands & "what? 6 mos. ago he was like working at a fast food place" & the number of lead singers they had...they love Steve Perry, as do a lot of radio DJs here...nothing is gonna change about that - they aren't gonna throw on the new singer songs over SP.

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".



PS People, don't worry about SP being "driven out" of peoples memories / consciousness...after watching a few of SP's youtube videos and comparing them to AP...there is NOTHING to worry about. AP couldn't carry SP's sweat-soaked microphone.

Out.

No shit Sherlock..

Styx did a similar thing when they re-recorded "Lady" when Shaw came back. They were doing a greatest hits album for A&M. A&M didn't own "Lady" because it was done for another label (Rca/Wooden Nickle). They re-recorded it so they could include it on their new greatest hits album for A&M.

I haven't been following this discussion closely enough to know if this is on Columbia/Sony. If the album is for another label, I would guess that this is why they'd have to do this. If it's on the same label they were with for all their Perry albums (Columbia now Sony) then I don't get it.

It will be interesting to hear the newly recorded versions, but the NEW tracks will be the ones in my CD player.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

Andrew wrote:The re-issues are out of the current band's control. Sony can do what they live with the material.

Which I guess is exactly why they are doing a re-record of 11 classics, to give themselves some control over some tunes.

But what control do they need??? For what???
To start selling Arnel-sung Classics to advertisers for commercials?
I don't understand how they could need more control if they already own the songs.

Are you implying that, say they re-record DSB, and a show like AI wants to use it.
Could they just go direct to the Band/Walmart and pay for rights to use the Arnel-version,
and not owe Sony or Perry anything???

I was never a business major so I am trying to figure this out.
Is that the gain in this decision? (which I personally think is a Bad Decision)

Perry is going to get paid regardless because he was a songwriter, and thus is due royalties.

As far as why the band might want to record this, they are probably going to get a much larger percentage of royalties per copy sold having a direct deal with the retailer, as opposed to having the label as the middleman.

As far as who owns the recordings, that is up to who pays for the studio time. If Journey pays for the studio time, they own the recordings. If the label pays, they own them. For the original studio recordings with Perry, Sony/Columbia paid for the studio time, and therefore can do whatever it wants with the recordings--with the exception of any clauses in the record contract that might impose certain stipulations (ie, no Journey songs on random Best of the 80s compilations). Not that it would make much business sense, but if there were no compilation clauses in the contract, Sony/Columbia could theoretically release a new Greatest Hits cd every year, and stick a Journey song playing anywhere they wanted (anyone want the vision of hearing Don't Stop Believin' as the tag line of the newest Viagra ad?). You can see where some creative control would be wanted by the band.

There are many reasons to re-record the songs, but in the end, it probably boils down to a better contract with more royalties ($$$$$) for Journey, with some fringe benefits.

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".



PS People, don't worry about SP being "driven out" of peoples memories / consciousness...after watching a few of SP's youtube videos and comparing them to AP...there is NOTHING to worry about. AP couldn't carry SP's sweat-soaked microphone.

Out.

No shit Sherlock..

And your problem would be...?

Ahh forget it. I'm sure it's a birth defect or something. You'll be ok.

Tomulator wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".



PS People, don't worry about SP being "driven out" of peoples memories / consciousness...after watching a few of SP's youtube videos and comparing them to AP...there is NOTHING to worry about. AP couldn't carry SP's sweat-soaked microphone.

Out.

No shit Sherlock..

And your problem would be...?

Ahh forget it. I'm sure it's a birth defect or something. You'll be ok.

You know the routine.
ANY negative criticism towards Arnel or not showing undying
devotion to this current line-up and their every decision brings
out Pineda's Pinata Army in full force

Carlitto H@kk wrote:

Tomulator wrote:

youkeepmewaiting wrote:

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".



PS People, don't worry about SP being "driven out" of peoples memories / consciousness...after watching a few of SP's youtube videos and comparing them to AP...there is NOTHING to worry about. AP couldn't carry SP's sweat-soaked microphone.

Out.

No shit Sherlock..

And your problem would be...?

Ahh forget it. I'm sure it's a birth defect or something. You'll be ok.

You know the routine.
ANY negative criticism towards Arnel or not showing undying
devotion to this current line-up and their every decision brings
out Pineda's Pinata Army in full force

No no, thats not what i meant. But i dont think any body on this forum has said that "Arnel is better than Perry", i highly doubt that there is any members on this forum who this he is.

I don't recall a band member named Benjamin, but apparently the band wants a whole lot more of them.

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".

What alot of older fans don't get is, this is the first time in a llloonnnggg time Journey has the chance to reach a much younger fan base. Like him or not, Arnel's face and actions would be right at home on American Idol, this means alot of younger fans are taking interest in Journey, some for the first time. Recording the classics with modern day recording technology, media, etc, etc, it's a logical decision if you ask me and makes perfect sense. For all practical purposes, this is the Arnel band and company. They are obviously going to ride Arnel for everything they can get from him. Hey, I frickin think SteveP is the greatest melodic rock vocalist of all time, but Arnel with his powerful voice, young look, chaotic energy on stage, etc, has a real chance of bringing Journey back to the limelight. Perhaps for only a brief moment, but still a chance. Re-recording some hits with Arnel's voice is a great idea, this way when the fan goes to see them in concert, they will SEE the voice behind the music.

texafana wrote: Re-recording some hits with Arnel's voice is a great idea, this way when the fan goes to see them in concert, they will SEE the voice behind the music.

No, they will see the guy put into the position of trying to re-create THE Voice behind the music.

You made some good points about Arnel possibly being able to connect with younger folks...
Why not use that to an advantage to get NEW MUSIC out there and PROMOTE Arnel and Company
instead of holding on so tight to the tailz?

texafana wrote:

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".

What alot of older fans don't get is, this is the first time in a llloonnnggg time Journey has the chance to reach a much younger fan base. Like him or not, Arnel's face and actions would be right at home on American Idol, this means alot of younger fans are taking interest in Journey, some for the first time. Recording the classics with modern day recording technology, media, etc, etc, it's a logical decision if you ask me and makes perfect sense. For all practical purposes, this is the Arnel band and company. They are obviously going to ride Arnel for everything they can get from him. Hey, I frickin think SteveP is the greatest melodic rock vocalist of all time, but Arnel with his powerful voice, young look, chaotic energy on stage, etc, has a real chance of bringing Journey back to the limelight. Perhaps for only a brief moment, but still a chance. Re-recording some hits with Arnel's voice is a great idea, this way when the fan goes to see them in concert, they will SEE the voice behind the music.

As a relatively young guy who is in touch with a lot of peers, I believe that the re-recording will have NO positive effect on the younger market.

There's a lot of people my age and younger that know who Journey is and recognizes the music already. Several of my friends have bought albums and went to shows because they liked the Steve Perry-era versions of the songs, and believe it or not, I have a buddy who prefers Augeri-era.

Teenagers won't suddenly go "OOOOH.... JOOOOUR-NEEEEEEEEEY?! Coooooool!" when they hear the re-recorded hits, or see Arnel singing them on stage. If they're into music, they'll think "Hey, that's that Journey band with that Steve Perry guy that made good (or bad, whatever they may think) music back in the day. A lot of my musically charged friends think the re-recording idea is VERY lame and are giving me a hell of a lot of grief for it, even though I agree with them.

I'd say any teenager that is at least somewhat into music, and is knowledgeable about "classic rock," knows that Steve Perry hasn't been with the band for awhile. It's not like some kind of top secret knowledge only us internet nerds are privvy to.

texafana wrote:

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".

What alot of older fans don't get is, this is the first time in a llloonnnggg time Journey has the chance to reach a much younger fan base. Like him or not, Arnel's face and actions would be right at home on American Idol, this means alot of younger fans are taking interest in Journey, some for the first time. Recording the classics with modern day recording technology, media, etc, etc, it's a logical decision if you ask me and makes perfect sense. For all practical purposes, this is the Arnel band and company. They are obviously going to ride Arnel for everything they can get from him. Hey, I frickin think SteveP is the greatest melodic rock vocalist of all time, but Arnel with his powerful voice, young look, chaotic energy on stage, etc, has a real chance of bringing Journey back to the limelight. Perhaps for only a brief moment, but still a chance. Re-recording some hits with Arnel's voice is a great idea, this way when the fan goes to see them in concert, they will SEE the voice behind the music.

Huh????!





Here's a NOVEL idea...

"Journey", how about making it back to the top based on your own NEW, fresh, creative, original material???!

Why "hitch a ride" on the old hits just to pretend to be musically relevent again?

It sucks and it CHEAPENS the band (what's left of it).

Carlitto H@kk wrote:The disc of re-recorded stuff is take so much attention away from the new material.

That's what happens when you list it as the FIRST DISC in the package...

I wouldn't be surprised if this were just something Wal-Mart negotiated with Journey to ensure sale of more copies of Revelations. That's really the only benefit the band would have to do this – to make Revelations a more desirable product. I doubt Wal-Mart would be interested in a record of all-original material.

Personally, I'm surprised that they didn't just make it Revelations + a live CD/DVD package rather than paying for more studio time to just record the hits. But I'm sure the band wants to show off Arnel's vocal chops in the studio.

It seems like a they're just opening themselves up for people to compare SP and AP, which isn't fair to either of them. Besides, how could the production quality even compare to Mike Stone's phenomenal job on Escape and Frontiers?

they're gonna need them for promo too..

stevek2007 wrote:I don't recall a band member named Benjamin, but apparently the band wants a whole lot more of them.

Stevek - your Stewie avatar is priceless!

Forget about artistic merit - look at someone like Peter Gabriel. He owns and controls his entire catalog, and can license albums, songs, etc. to be issued by a label. When that contract is done, it all goes with him. Chicago did the same thing awhile back and then I'm not sure if they sold it to Rhino outright or licensed it, but for awhile the only way to get their back catalog was via Chicago Records.

Contrast that to Journey. The band does not own their recordings and gets paid on what sells. The songwriters do own their publishing as far as I know. However, Journey can't do shit with their catalog sales wise (repackage, etc.).They may have a say in packaging or song selection (depending on their contract with Sony), but basically, they can't do squat with the stuff. Now that the Perry contract is gone, they can exercise some control and re-record some of to (if even symbolically), "own" some of their back catalog they can do whatever with - throw on as a b-side to a single, release to radio, sell at shows, package with something else.

This is business, pure and simple. If Journey owned their catalog (beyond the songwriting), I don't think they'd push to do what they did. Makes perfect sense to me.

[quote="StyxCollector"
This is business, pure and simple. If Journey owned their catalog (beyond the songwriting), I don't think they'd push to do what they did. Makes perfect sense to me.[/quote]

You're right. It does make perfect sense from a business standpoint.
I guess the biggest question is "Why promote the re-recordings AHEAD
of the New Material in the Press Release?"

Shouldn't the New Music with the New Lead Singer be the focus w/ this release?

Carlitto H@kk wrote:Shouldn't the New Music with the New Lead Singer be the focus w/ this release?

Loss leader. You really think the would have received that Walmart deal without some sort of repackaging of the hits a la REO's album?

The ad will read more like "Come get Journey's new album for $10.88 and get a free disc of their greatest hits". Most people will just hear greatest hits, or think it's some huge bargain. They're not going to advertise it's re-recorded and the general public couldn't care.

Tomulator wrote:Quite frankly...the whole "re-recording the classics" thing is a JOKE and entirely UNNECESSARY".



PS People, don't worry about SP being "driven out" of peoples memories / consciousness...after watching a few of SP's youtube videos and comparing them to AP...there is NOTHING to worry about. AP couldn't carry SP's sweat-soaked microphone.

Out.

could not agree more!The only reason to do this at all is to make money. sorry I am keeping mine.

ProgRocker53 wrote:Teenagers won't suddenly go "OOOOH.... JOOOOUR-NEEEEEEEEEY?! Coooooool!" when they hear the re-recorded hits, or see Arnel singing them on stage. If they're into music, they'll think "Hey, that's that Journey band with that Steve Perry guy that made good (or bad, whatever they may think) music back in the day. A lot of my musically charged friends think the re-recording idea is VERY lame and are giving me a hell of a lot of grief for it, even though I agree with them.

I'd say any teenager that is at least somewhat into music, and is knowledgeable about "classic rock," knows that Steve Perry hasn't been with the band for awhile. It's not like some kind of top secret knowledge only us internet nerds are privvy to.

You think teenagers are that much into classic melodic rock? I disagree. Line up 100 teenagers in any mall and ask them who Steve Perry is and I would guess 5% would know, if that. Market the hell out of a "After All These Years" video, and sit back and watch Journey reach their widest demographic ever. I realize Arnel is 40+, but he just looks and acts alot younger on stage. I think he's going to connect with a very young audience over here in the states.

texafana wrote:

ProgRocker53 wrote:Teenagers won't suddenly go "OOOOH.... JOOOOUR-NEEEEEEEEEY?! Coooooool!" when they hear the re-recorded hits, or see Arnel singing them on stage. If they're into music, they'll think "Hey, that's that Journey band with that Steve Perry guy that made good (or bad, whatever they may think) music back in the day. A lot of my musically charged friends think the re-recording idea is VERY lame and are giving me a hell of a lot of grief for it, even though I agree with them.

I'd say any teenager that is at least somewhat into music, and is knowledgeable about "classic rock," knows that Steve Perry hasn't been with the band for awhile. It's not like some kind of top secret knowledge only us internet nerds are privvy to.

You think teenagers are that much into classic melodic rock? I disagree. Line up 100 teenagers in any mall and ask them who Steve Perry is and I would guess 5% would know, if that. Market the hell out of a "After All These Years" video, and sit back and watch Journey reach their widest demographic ever. I realize Arnel is 40+, but he just looks and acts alot younger on stage. I think he's going to connect with a very young audience over here in the states.

You think teenagers that aren't into melodic rock are going to connect with "After All These Years"?? Sound or lyric wise? Come on! You can't be serious.

Blueskies wrote:You think teenagers that aren't into melodic rock are going to connect with "After All These Years"?? Sound or lyric wise? Come on! You can't be serious.

Absolutely, but Never Walk Away is so much better. Kids absolutely will like that.