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Pre-recorded anything LIVE sucks...
Posted:
Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:04 pmby texafana
I can't stand the following after I've paid good money to see a band live...
Pre-recorded background vocals.
Pre-recorded or "midi" sequenced keys, drums, backing tracks, etc.
Lead vocalists that lip sync to a song.
Drummers that play to a click track.
Sorry, but just because the technology is there, it's becoming too wide spread. I want to see the potential screw ups, the dynamic of the tempo speeding up or slowing down, the chance for an extended jam, live vocalists singing their heart out even if they're a little off. I want a live energetic show, I don't want a pre-recorded show that goes from a-b at the click of a button.
I'm a die hard Rush fan, but even their shows are becoming a bit too much WTF? All those backing harmonies and 2nd rythm guitar are obviously added in.
Bring back the raw show! What bands touring today are 100% live? It's hard to tell anymore.....
Posted:
Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:42 pmby Andrew
I agree 100% (there's a first..)
Same with "fixed" live CD/DVD releases. If it isn't 100% live, I'll stick to the CD.
Posted:
Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:54 pmby dabstudio
is it LIVE or is it MEMOREX ??
Re: Pre-recorded anything LIVE sucks...
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:35 amby Marzdog
Unfortunately, nearly EVERYONE is doing this.
texafana wrote:I can't stand the following after I've paid good money to see a band live...
Pre-recorded background vocals.
Pre-recorded or "midi" sequenced keys, drums, backing tracks, etc.
Lead vocalists that lip sync to a song.
Drummers that play to a click track.
Sorry, but just because the technology is there, it's becoming too wide spread. I want to see the potential screw ups, the dynamic of the tempo speeding up or slowing down, the chance for an extended jam, live vocalists singing their heart out even if they're a little off. I want a live energetic show, I don't want a pre-recorded show that goes from a-b at the click of a button.
I'm a die hard Rush fan, but even their shows are becoming a bit too much WTF? All those backing harmonies and 2nd rythm guitar are obviously added in.
Bring back the raw show! What bands touring today are 100% live? It's hard to tell anymore.....
Re: Pre-recorded anything LIVE sucks...
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:01 amby conversationpc
texafana wrote:Pre-recorded background vocals.
Agreed. I'd much rather hear poor or mediocre backing vocals than a pre-recorded track
Pre-recorded or "midi" sequenced keys, drums, backing tracks, etc.
I don't mind these to some extent. If Journey needs Cain, for instance, to provide a second rhythm guitar while the keys are sequenced for a song, that doesn't bother me all that much.
Lead vocalists that lip sync to a song.
This should NEVER happen. Period. If the singer can't go for a particular reason, cancel the show or find some other, legitimate, way to do the show.
Drummers that play to a click track.
Doesn't bother me in the least. Is it really any different than a classical musician relying on a conductor?
I'm a die hard Rush fan, but even their shows are becoming a bit too much WTF? All those backing harmonies and 2nd rythm guitar are obviously added in.
In some cases, the rhythms that Lifeson is playing are being automatically doubled by their sound system. I don't know the technical terminology but he used to use some kind of device that doubled his electric guitar's rhythm but made it sound like an extra acoustic guitar. Some thought it was a sequenced guitar or someone else playing offstage but it was all generated from his guitar through their sound system.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:09 amby Blueskies
I agree..that's why I don't go to very many concerts anymore...not the big name acts, anyway. I prefer to go see local and lesser known artists...where it's not always the same and sometimes may be a little rough...where you can hear the talent. If it's too perfect and exactly the same everytime, I can listen to the CD.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:57 amby NealIsGod
Pre-recorded vocals is basically live music's version of performance enhancers. They should be banned.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:14 amby notme
You don't like this stuff? Go find some local band to start following.......and even be careful there! This is what it has come to in today's music industry. Bands have gotten more and more competitive trying to put on the best show they can to get people to come see them play. How many times have you seen a band that you love, play a song that you love, and it's too fast, or it's too slow and it KILLS the song for you?? Click track is a HUGE problem solver for MANY bands. Along with that has come the technology for adding extra band parts (keys, guitars, bgvox), and now.....lead vocals. I agree that it can make bands come across badly........the same exact show, done the same exact way EVERY time.....but that's the band's own complacency. Just because they're using the tools that are available to them doesn't mean that they can't play some extended solos, or play things with some FIRE!! It's up to the bands, how they choose to use the tools that are available to them. The technology has come far enough that even local bands (around here, anyway) are using it too. I've seen bar bands with sampled back up vocals, and flown in instruments. some of them are even very good at it!
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:41 amby AlteredDNA
I'm ok with click tracks when they are used to synch the live music with other aspects of the performance - video / lights / etc...
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:15 amby Andrew
Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Re: Pre-recorded anything LIVE sucks...
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:47 pmby texafana
conversationpc wrote:In some cases, the rhythms that Lifeson is playing are being automatically doubled by their sound system. I don't know the technical terminology but he used to use some kind of device that doubled his electric guitar's rhythm but made it sound like an extra acoustic guitar. Some thought it was a sequenced guitar or someone else playing offstage but it was all generated from his guitar through their sound system.
I know that, there is digital guitar modeling where you get an elec and acoustic sound at the same time, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about during a guitar solo you can still here a rythm guitar playing.
I LOVE Rush and I don't mind when they were just triggering samples as background additives, but on some tunes they are obviously playing along with pre-recorded vox, click tracks, etc. ugh..
As far as tempo control without using a click track, well, that's the drummer's fault. Sure smitty was known for this a few decades ago, but still... give me a raw unchained live show anytime compared to the sleek, over produced, "click a button" and strum along performances of today.
"Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR. Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound."
Production over performance.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:48 pmby Memorex
dabstudio wrote:is it LIVE or is it MEMOREX ??
It's Memorex, baby.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:35 pmby Rockindeano
Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:35 pmby Rockindeano
By the way, EVERYBODY plays to at least a click track.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:38 pmby piecesofeight
Rockindeano wrote:Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
Yep..I was gonna' say Leppard and Jovi too. First two that popped into my head after reading Drews post. What gets me is when tapes are being used and they still sound awful.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:43 pmby Angiekay
Rockindeano wrote:Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
A local roadie setting up Def Leppard's stage told me Rick has another drummer underneath helping him out.
Smoke and mirrors, baby
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:51 pmby larryfromnextdoor
Angiekay wrote:Rockindeano wrote:Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
[b][color=purple][size=15]
A local roadie setting up Def Leppard's stage told me Rick has another drummer underneath helping him out.
Smoke and mirrors, baby
under the stage? he would have to have some room , monitors, video screens.. sounds complicated..
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:03 pmby Andrew
Angiekay wrote:Rockindeano wrote:Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
A local roadie setting up Def Leppard's stage told me Rick has another drummer underneath helping him out.
Smoke and mirrors, baby
That's a new one to me - and I saw them set up and tear down in person in LA October 06.
Re: Pre-recorded anything LIVE sucks...
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:28 pmby lowdbrent
texafana wrote:conversationpc wrote:In some cases, the rhythms that Lifeson is playing are being automatically doubled by their sound system. I don't know the technical terminology but he used to use some kind of device that doubled his electric guitar's rhythm but made it sound like an extra acoustic guitar. Some thought it was a sequenced guitar or someone else playing offstage but it was all generated from his guitar through their sound system.
I know that, there is digital guitar modeling where you get an elec and acoustic sound at the same time, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about during a guitar solo you can still here a rythm guitar playing.
I LOVE Rush and I don't mind when they were just triggering samples as background additives, but on some tunes they are obviously playing along with pre-recorded vox, click tracks, etc. ugh..
As far as tempo control without using a click track, well, that's the drummer's fault. Sure smitty was known for this a few decades ago, but still... give me a raw unchained live show anytime compared to the sleek, over produced, "click a button" and strum along performances of today.
"Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR. Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound."
Production over performance.
There are good resons for clicks, like playing in sync to a video, etc. On the timing issue, most frummers hate playing to clicks as it removes the human feel and does not allow for some swing in the music. I don't think that you will find any real top teir band that uses them for timing alone. It is like a painter using Kinkos to reproduce a landscape before painting a house on it. It is usua.lly to sync other elements of the show to the band.
If we are going to pick on certain elements, how far do we want to take things. What about drastic EQ, gating, compression and effects? Those transform sources into something that they are not. What about digital delays on guitar solos? Take a delay from guys like Eddie and Neal and suddenly, they don't sound like they are playing all that much. What about lighting? Lighting and a little stage make-up makes a homely person more acceptable, or covers up the blemishes. How much honesty could the masses handle? I say that video showed us how much. Suddenly, ugly people were not cool anymore in music. One had to be a 10 and suddenly it is not about the talent or the song anymore. It is about the Tits, ass, bling, eye candy, etc.
If you take this stuff away, it would make for a boring show some would say. I am up for it. Get music stripped down to the talent performing great songs.
Posted:
Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:17 pmby scarygirl
Rockindeano wrote:Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
How do you know this? Remember, I was less than a foot from the man. Dont you think hard core fans would know?
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:13 amby Marzdog
Having been to some of their rehearsals in past years, watching them set up a few shows in my day, and knowing their techs, I'd have to say false on this.
However, ALL of their background vocals are triggered by Rick Savage (bassist) via pedal.
Andrew wrote:Angiekay wrote:Rockindeano wrote:Andrew wrote:Herbie told me some off the record stuff about MAJOR acts up there on stage performing to backing tapes. MAJOR.
Another world famous band has an army of musicians under their stage to enhance their sound.
Can you say
Bon Jovi?
U2 does as well and we all know those Euro Fags
Def Lippard play to tapes.
A local roadie setting up Def Leppard's stage told me Rick has another drummer underneath helping him out.
Smoke and mirrors, baby
That's a new one to me - and I saw them set up and tear down in person in LA October 06.
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:17 amby ProgRocker53
Wouldn't it be funner, and easier, to just SING the background vocals instead of hitting a pedal every time the BG vox come up in a song?
I'd probably forget to hit the trigger quite a bit if I had to do something like that.
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:27 amby Marzdog
If they could, they would; no different than the past 10 or so years of Journey using Perry's piped in background vocals.
ProgRocker53 wrote:Wouldn't it be funner, and easier, to just SING the background vocals instead of hitting a pedal every time the BG vox come up in a song?
I'd probably forget to hit the trigger quite a bit if I had to do something like that.
Re: Pre-recorded anything LIVE sucks...
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:23 amby venomnation
texafana wrote:I can't stand the following after I've paid good money to see a band live...
Pre-recorded background vocals.
Pre-recorded or "midi" sequenced keys, drums, backing tracks, etc.
Lead vocalists that lip sync to a song.
Drummers that play to a click track.
So...how WAS the Van Halen Reunion Tour?
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:26 amby scarygirl
Marzdog wrote:If they could, they would; no different than the past 10 or so years of Journey using Perry's piped in background vocals.
ProgRocker53 wrote:Wouldn't it be funner, and easier, to just SING the background vocals instead of hitting a pedal every time the BG vox come up in a song?
I'd probably forget to hit the trigger quite a bit if I had to do something like that.
What? They've used Perry's back ground vocals and he's not even there? I knew I wasn't imagining things.
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:39 amby Rockindeano
Marzdog wrote:If they could, they would; no different than the past 10 or so years of Journey using Perry's piped in background vocals.
Don't think so Marz....I believe they used Augeri's piped in vocals.
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:42 amby Marzdog
I think you need to go back through numerous shows and take a deeeeeeeeeeeeeep listen. Perry's backgrounds are most certainly there.
BTW, your boys gonna make it? They're on the outside lookin in with 4 to play...
Posted:
Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:45 amby Saint John
Rockindeano wrote:Marzdog wrote:If they could, they would; no different than the past 10 or so years of Journey using Perry's piped in background vocals.
Don't think so Marz....I believe they used Augeri's piped in vocals.
Correct...which is why they re-recorded the greatest hits with him immediately. I would have noticed Perry's voice in a second. However, since Perry was classless enough to make himself the 6th member through extortion tactics, I think they
could've done it legally.
Posted:
Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:08 amby epresley
That's why I love bootlegs, that's how it went down, for better or worse. When I saw the dvd of the Eagles, Live in Melbourne, hell, they sounded great, but they had 50 "extra" members in the background helping out.
Posted:
Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:16 amby notme
Def Lep is NOT using another drummer under the stage. I promise......... a couple of the samples Rick is triggering (Rocket) have a two bar loop attatched to them, but Rick Allen is an AMAZING player. He plays better now than when he had two arms.....bizzare to say, but true.
.......and the Jrny backing tracks do not have Steve Perry in them......