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I've been reading this forum for a few weeks now and slowly getting more and more into Journey. One question I have is how damaged Steve Perry's voice actually "is". Not trying to turn this into a "vs" thread ... I dig Arnel, I liked Augeri and I liked Soto. The way some tell the story, you'd get the sense that Perry sings like the little girl in the Exorcist.

I'm sitting here listening to "TRIAL BY FIRE" for the first time. Herbie Herbert called it "monotone" but I'm not finding that. It isn't Steve Perry doing vocal acrobatics (ala Don't Stop Believing) or ungodly high notes (ala Wheel In The Sky around the guitar solo) from his prime but I'm still hearing what sounds like a way above average vocal range.

Likewise, I heard horror stories of the "For The Love Of Strange Medicine" tour and Perry sounding terrible on it. Yet, when I've watched videos of it on YouTube, I didn't find that. Some songs seemed a little lower, but he still hit some pretty damn high notes and had a really above average vocal range as far as male singers go. Did he lose his voice partway through the tour or something?

In all seriousness, I wonder if the claims that he "can't sing" anymore are a bit exaggerated. If "Trial By Fire" is any indication, it seems more like a case of he's getting older and would have to lower the keys of punishingly high song but still has an above average range compared to most male singers.

And really? Is that a bad thing? Very few singers with above average ranges sustain them later in life. It's natural.

Don Henley, IMO, still sounds great. He also avoids that high note on ONE OF THESE NIGHTS in concert.

Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins lowered their songs in concert.

Peter Cetera has all his Chicago-era songs down slightly.


Bobby Kimball from Toto sings his ass off, but his voice gets really hoarse really quickly.

I mean, it's natural with age.

I'm just not sure I buy the "can't sing" argument. I think it's "can't sing songs in original key for a sustained tour".


Then again, I haven't had Steve Perry singing scales to know how high he can go these days.

He couldn't sing the songs in their original keys 10 years after they were recorded.
It's a natural process for the voice, though. Whether he can sing or not isn't the question.

I'm interested in hearing "Tito's" thoughts on this topic.

DracIsBack wrote:The way some tell the story, you'd get the sense that Perry sings like the little girl in the Exorcist.

That cracked me up.

He's fine. He can sing. Of course he's not gonna sound like its 1981.
Good grief, the battle rages on... "Can he?" "Can't he?" "WILL he?" "WHY won't he?"

My general statement on this subject: "He did his job and he did it well. Play Evolution and STFU."

bluejeangirl76 wrote:"He did his job and he did it well. Play Evolution and STFU."

...I heard Stone in Love on the Loop yesterday at about 4:45... I meant to tell you that.

Saint John wrote:I'm interested in hearing "Tito's" thoughts on this topic.

The man has either lost his voice or lost his mind. Perhaps both.

I was at the beacon theater concert on the FTLOSM tour. Don't you fucking believe it when people say he sounded bad on that tour. He was outstanding. I was in fucking awe. Nobody else has that kind of range and breath control to hold those endless notes. More important, you felt every word of every lyric. The man has soul.

Why doesn't he record:
My theory is Perry is a perfectionist. He's not happy with the sound of his own voice and/or he can't achieve what he wants to with it so he would rather not do it.

Why doesn't he tour:
If he gets out on stage, the perfectionist in him wants to perform the songs at least as well as he did on FTLOSM tour. I hear a further deterioration of his voice between the FTLOSM and TBF albums. Word is, he lost his voice during the tour and he had to cancel the rest of the dates. Not surprising as he certainly was belting on all 8 cylinders at the show I was at and he had a second consecutive show at the same venue the very next evening.

Jon Cain is quoted as saying Perry bleeds a little over every song. I'll bet if he does something, he puts his all into it or he doesn't do it.

Tito wrote:

Saint John wrote:I'm interested in hearing "Tito's" thoughts on this topic.

The man has either lost his voice or lost his mind. Perhaps both.

Replace "mind" with "desire" and that's what I think. Not everyone wants to keep performing forever, and I think Perry just hit his limit. The frustrating part is that he stays involved in the biz with the reissues and popping into studios to do BG vox. If he was 100% uninvolved in music, then I think people would let him be.

STORY_TELLER wrote:I was at the beacon theater concert on the FTLOSM tour. Don't you fucking believe it when people say he sounded bad on that tour. He was outstanding. I was in fucking awe. Nobody else has that kind of range and breath control to hold those endless notes. More important, you felt every word of every lyric. The man has soul.

Why doesn't he record:
My theory is Perry is a perfectionist. He's not happy with the sound of his own voice and/or he can't achieve what he wants to with it so he would rather not do it.

Why doesn't he tour:
If he gets out on stage, the perfectionist in him wants to perform the songs at least as well as he did on FTLOSM tour. I hear a further deterioration of his voice between the FTLOSM and TBF albums. Word is, he lost his voice during the tour and he had to cancel the rest of the dates. Not surprising as he certainly was belting on all 8 cylinders at the show I was at and he had a second consecutive show at the same venue the very next evening.

Jon Cain is quoted as saying Perry bleeds a little over every song. I'll bet if he does something, he puts his all into it or he doesn't do it.

I saw the FTLOSM tour in December of '94 (SF), January of '95 (Portland) and March of '95 (San Juan). By March, Steve had been sick and had canceled some venues, but that man gave his all at the San Juan concert IN the pouring rain! And he really was sick because the one conversation I ever had with him was about how he was feeling (leave it to a nurse to ask! ). Anyway, what was I saying.....

He sounded fine on the FTLOSM shows that I saw. The voice was not gone. And while I missed the Journey guys, he toured with the nicest group of musicians, they were quite competent and no, Linc wasn't Neal, Paul wasn't Jon and Moyes wasn't Smitty but they did a great job, IMHO.

I think he's happy with the legacy he has...he's enjoying himself.

I've seen a boot vid of the FTLOSM tour and he was awesome!

NealIsGod wrote:Replace "mind" with "desire" and that's what I think.

Personally, I like "mind" better, NIG and I'll tell you why. It's obvious that the desire is gone. However, to perpetuate the notion that you can still sing through outlets like Lukather, Uncle Joe Benson, and the whole "demo" bullshit, one can fairly surmise that both oars may not be in the water anymore. I mean does anyone still believe his bullshit? I think I was the "The Last Of The Mobeakans" to actually still think there would be a reunion tour.

Pelata wrote:I think he's happy with the legacy he has...he's enjoying himself.

I've seen a boot vid of the FTLOSM tour and he was awesome!

Thank You Let him enjoy his life now.

Saint John wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Replace "mind" with "desire" and that's what I think.

Personally, I like "mind" better, NIG and I'll tell you why. It's obvious that the desire is gone. However, to perpetuate the notion that you can still sing through outlets like Lukather, Uncle Joe Benson, and the whole "demo" bullshit, one can fairly surmise that both oars may not be in the water anymore. I mean does anyone still believe his bullshit? I think I was the "The Last Of The Mobeakans" to actually still think there would be a reunion tour.

The Last of the Mobeakans?

I have aspirated my coffee!

Saint John wrote: I mean does anyone still believe his bullshit? I think I was the "The Last Of The Mobeakans" to actually still think there would be a reunion tour.

Good on you for admitting it.
You were becoming kind of a Mini Linus with your semi-annual and quarterly predictions of his RETURN.

Naturally the voice "goes" a little with age, Steve Perry can still sing. He sounds great on the brief appearances he's made the last couple of years(with David Pack and Jeff Golub).
Personally,I think Herbie Herbert is a little bitter towards SP-that's why he says SP can't sing anymore. That's my opinion.
I caught SP on the FLOSM tour,he was perfect!!!!!

Saint John wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Replace "mind" with "desire" and that's what I think.

Personally, I like "mind" better, NIG and I'll tell you why. It's obvious that the desire is gone. However, to perpetuate the notion that you can still sing through outlets like Lukather, Uncle Joe Benson, and the whole "demo" bullshit, one can fairly surmise that both oars may not be in the water anymore. I mean does anyone still believe his bullshit? I think I was the "The Last Of The Mobeakans" to actually still think there would be a reunion tour.

Right, because Perry told Lukather to come in to this forum and tell us he can still sing. Of course he did. You talk as though the man speaks through a voice box like that character on south park.

I for one believe the Demo story. Doubt Nuno Bettencourt would sit down with Perry for a second writing session after the stuff he did with him originally never saw the light of day if he didn't believe the man could sing. Could be those demos were from those sessions? Possible? As to whether Perry's happy with the result is a different matter. That's a creative choice and he's notorious for being a perfectionist. Only Perry and whatever inner circle he confides in knows for sure, but I think that's what's at issue, not that he absolutely can't sing.

Now, as to the reunion tour? No, I never believed there would be one. Once Neal opted to move on in 98 with a different singer, end of story. I knew Perry would never go there again even if some new surgical procedure was developed to magically return his chords to Escape era shape. Never happen. He said if you do this there's no going back and he meant it.

STORY_TELLER wrote:Right, because Perry told Lukather to come in to this forum and tell us he can still sing. Of course he did.

LOL - if there's one thing about Luke, he's calls it as "he sees it". He's pretty blunt about things, positively and negatively. If he says "Perry sounded great", I believe "Perry sounded great". What he didn't say was "Gosh - Perry sounded 100% like he did in Journey's heydey" but people are taking it as that.

DracIsBack wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Right, because Perry told Lukather to come in to this forum and tell us he can still sing. Of course he did.

LOL - if there's one thing about Luke, he's calls it as "he sees it". He's pretty blunt about things, positively and negatively. If he says "Perry sounded great", I believe "Perry sounded great". What he didn't say was "Gosh - Perry sounded 100% like he did in Journey's heydey" but people are taking it as that.

Well, they're foolish if they're taking it like that. I expect Perry sounds as good as he did on Jeff Golub's "Can't let you go". You know what? I'd love a whole album of material like that from Perry!

STORY_TELLER wrote: he's notorious for being a perfectionist.

Bullshit. Then why where the songs on the ROR tour sung as if you were listening a to an old cassette that someone hit "fast forward" on? Why did he choose to tour with guys on the FTLOSM tour that sounded as if their instruments were tuned at Bill's Auto Body? Where was the "perfectionist" in him then?

As for your "no going back" argument...what was there to go back to? Sitting around waiting 10 more years to record another album and then not tour behind it? Neal and Jon must have took all of 20 seconds to make that decision. It would have been a lot shorter had they been able to give an answer through their laughter.

I'm a huge fan of SP... But several decades of recording and singing these songs live will take a toll on anyone's voice...

this vid speaks for itself...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=504B3iR5M_8

he started the song off in a lower key to begin with and still couldn't sing it.

Alright I'd settle for arrogant, full of himself and need to be in total control a bit over being a perfectionist.

Saint John wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote: he's notorious for being a perfectionist.

Bullshit. Then why where the songs on the ROR tour sung as if you were listening a to an old cassette that someone hit "fast forward" on?

Because he was on the edge of burnout. Both emotionally and vocally. If I recall correctly, they never finished the ROR tour? Didn't Perry call Neal and Jon together for a private meeting and say "I just want to stop"? If nothing else, your example illustrates my point. He stopped the tour midstream because he knew he couldn't do it the right way at that point. He was just exhausted.

Don't treat the ROR tour as if it's today. His mother had recently died at the time, his long time girlfriend split with him. He was imploding. Don't know if you're lucky enough to have your parents still in your life, but I can tell you from personal experience, an event like that changes you. He had a double whammy with his girl leaving. Walk a mile in the guy's shoes before you throw these stones dude.

Saint John wrote:Why did he choose to tour with guys on the FTLOSM tour that sounded as if their instruments were tuned at Bill's Auto Body? Where was the "perfectionist" in him then?

Neal, Jon, Ross and Smitty they were not, but you're taking that to an extreme. I was at that show so I know of what I speak. That album wasn't a bad album, it was just melancholy in tone. Artistic choice. Not my preferred way for him to go, but like most artists who tap that emotional space, Perry's art seems ruled by his emotions. He went toward deeper places on that album which is a departure from the positive feel of the Journey material. Don't forget, art is subjective. Artistic choices has nothing to do with perfectionism. The fact that the musicians he worked with weren't as good as the guys in Journey is irrelevant to the perfectionism issue. He rode those musicians in the studio to achieve what he wanted artistically to come out in the songs. That's perfectionism.

Saint John wrote:As for your "no going back" argument...what was there to go back to? Sitting around waiting 10 more years to record another album and then not tour behind it? Neal and Jon must have took all of 20 seconds to make that decision. It would have been a lot shorter had they been able to give an answer through their laughter.

Now you're taking this someplace else. I didn't make an argument. I stated my reason for why unlike you, I never believed there would be a reunion tour. The "no going back" statement wasn't an argument, but a quote from Jon Cain on the VH1 BTM special. He was saying when he made the call to tell Perry they were moving on without him, Perry responded saying: "you know there's no going back" and Cain said "I know that".

tinylights wrote:I'm a huge fan of SP... But several decades of recording and singing these songs live will take a toll on anyone's voice...

this vid speaks for itself...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=504B3iR5M_8

he started the song off in a lower key to begin with and still couldn't sing it.

So will years of inactivity which I guarantee you is what this represents. He'd need months of vocal practice to get in shape to sing that song again, but I agree he would never be able to do it like he used to. He was asked days before to do this. If he put in the work, he could at least get back to TBF or "Can't let you go" shape.

Marabelle wrote:Alright I'd settle for arrogant, full of himself and need to be in total control a bit over being a perfectionist.

Two sides of the same coin if you ask me, lol...

tinylights wrote:I'm a huge fan of SP... But several decades of recording and singing these songs live will take a toll on anyone's voice...

this vid speaks for itself...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=504B3iR5M_8

he started the song off in a lower key to begin with and still couldn't sing it.

I didn't like that performance either although I do take it with a bit of a grain of salt ... he was singing it without a band, backed up by a bunch of out of tune baseball players, done for goofy laughs. I always got the sense they all got up there after a bunch of beer in the back. lol.

My own issues with Perry aside, I still think he can sing well.

He's not 81-86 Perry anymore, but he's not a breathing sack of shit either.

I DO think he's lost the desire to come up with anything new for HIMSELF though. Maybe it's because of the shelving of ATW, or the supposed FTLOSM ultimatum, or maybe he just doesn't feel he has it as a solo artist. We'll probably never know.

His continued involvement in things such as Journey DVD releases show me that he has absolutely not left the music business behind him. Maybe it's just about the cash and maintaining his personal legacy now.

DracIsBack wrote:

tinylights wrote:I'm a huge fan of SP... But several decades of recording and singing these songs live will take a toll on anyone's voice...

this vid speaks for itself...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=504B3iR5M_8

he started the song off in a lower key to begin with and still couldn't sing it.

I didn't like that performance either although I do take it with a bit of a grain of salt ... he was singing it without a band, backed up by a bunch of out of tune baseball players, done for goofy laughs. I always got the sense they all got up there after a bunch of beer in the back. lol.

No, I thought he just wasn't up to snuff too. I got the sense that he pulled the other guys in to cover his own shortcomings. He was asked by a reporter (in another clip) about the expectation of him singing DSB before he went on and he said: "Well, I'm gonna try".

My assertion, however, is that he was just vocally out of shape and that if he spent 6 months or so working on it, he could get back to being more of what we know him for. The vocal chords behave like a muscle. You don't use it, you lose it. But get back in the gym and you get back into shape. Will you be arnold swarznegger? No. But you'll look good if you work at it.

Oh I think the idea might have crossed his mind and he was playing it by ear. If he had to sing then he'd wing it; not the first choice but what else are you going to do. And besides the hope was that the guys would out sing him and you really wouldn't hear his voice and then again perhaps critics wouldn't be so harsh and realize it's just a celebration with a lot of guys who had just won the World Series and were just having a good time.

STORY_TELLER wrote:
Why doesn't he record:
My theory is Perry is a perfectionist. He's not happy with the sound of his own voice and/or he can't achieve what he wants to with it so he would rather not do it.

yeppers...

adult child of an alcoholic family = "if I'm not perfect, I'm not worthy of love" = live in the idealized past rather than accept the imperfect present

he was just vocally out of shape

That's what I thought...he just needs some work outs to get back in shape vocally...I think he could pull it off, providing he's not singing in standard tuning...he'd have to have the music tuned down a bit...