MR

After hearing every damn thing that I can find on youtube and other places I feel like Arnel may have bitten off more than he can chew... I am hoping it is only nerves but we wont really know until they hit the road for a bit.

For some reason I cant not imagine his voice being able to handle songs like Where were you, Escape, Line of fire etc when I hear him struggle with being on key in his upper range. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit.

I have never heard Augeri or Jss's first shows with the band and we all know this is the hardest shit on earth for a man to sing... Seems to be they were in a hurry to get something out and they lucked in to Arnel. I am just concerned that Arnel's voice is going to crap out fast. I dont know why but I feel like I an just tell from the way he is singing which for the most part is very good but man it seems like he is really pushing and lacks that strong head voice that allowed Perry to sing the high notes using way less air.

Maybe he will improve.. Maybe he will implode... Maybe he will turn in to a umpa lumpa and run away to fairy land....

I respectfully disagree. I think he sounds great and to me seems to be getting better and better all the time.

Hopefully I won't end up eating those words in the next 12 months!

I think he sounds great and will only improve. Neal has mentioned that they have not rehearsed much as of yet... Arnel only has 4 shows under his belt. BTW Augeri and JSS were pretty iffy the first couple shows.

He's trying too hard, vocally. Those songs are more demanding than any catalog he has sung. He is trying hard to impress and now Neal has got him thinking he's the second coming of Perry. Dude is not going to last, at this rate. He already sounds strained on the high end. He needs to concentrate on staying on pitch and quit worrying about trying to out-Perry Perry in the lung department.

Arnel sounds better than most other rock vocalists out there. I have boots of some of Perry's first shows with the band and he didn't hit every note every time back then, either. Of course, Perry was in his late 20s at the time and Arnel is now, what, 40 or 41?

Escape Artist wrote:I think he sounds great and will only improve. Neal has mentioned that they have not rehearsed much as of yet... Arnel only has 4 shows under his belt. BTW Augeri and JSS were pretty iffy the first couple shows.

Exactly; this is like getting called up to the majors straight from high school. He's got talent; he's got his head screwed on straight; all he needs is experience and support while he learns.

I'm not sure of all that. Watching Ellen, I did wonder how he would hold out on tour. And I only wonder that because of what Augeri went through and all the talk about the demanding catalog. But one thing I noticed that stands out for me is the look on Arnel's face when he is about to go for a high note. It's like he is focusing all his brain power on hitting that note, he almost leaves the song. Could just be me. Perry did it so effortlessly that it took you deeper into the song. Maybe that will come with time as he gains confidence.

For me, the old songs sound just ok, maybe flat in some parts. Not horrible. The new stuff sounds better to me - probably because I don't have to compare him to the legend of one of the greatest singers, you know? All in all though, not terribly moved. I do like him better than Augeri - would have preferred Soto (direction-wise).

You really need to see him live to make any judgements like this. It's the same argument we made for JSS. Arnel nailed the show in Vegas.

After watching the Ellen show performances multiple times
off my DVR, pumped thru the surround sound,
I am still having a hard time with Arnel's accent/phrasing.

In SW, his delivery is "slow" and "off-tempo".
During the chorus, the lines,
"Some day... Love will find you...
Break those... chains that bind you..."
are drawn out and slow, not short and precise.

And he does this throughout the whole song.
Maybe it's from having the original burned in my freaking brain
but it just doesn't translate well to me.
He has a great voice, don't get me wrong.
But his delivery and accent are still driving me nuts.

Hell, listen close to the AATY performances (what there was of it).
There is a line that goes,
"And I'm proud of all the blessings You have given me."

Arnel sings,
"And I'm proud of all the blessings You have give to me"

I don't want to bash the guy, but c'mon,
you may not be able to speak the english language well
in a conversation but these are lyrics, set in stone, that he
should surely be able to memorize, right???

I found the same things bugging me too. Weird. The drawn out phrases bother me more than the word or accent issues. When he says the word "you" at the end of a line, it reminds me of Neil Diamond.

The guy's diction can be corrected, but as a frontman, he just doesn't make the cut. He seemed like he didn't know what to do on Ellen during Neal's solos with all the jumping all over the place and waving the mic stand around. Granted, Arnel is a great lead singer, but he will never be a great frontman. Sadly, Journey needs both.

nikki wrote:The guy's diction can be corrected, but as a frontman, he just doesn't make the cut. He seemed like he didn't know what to do on Ellen during Neal's solos with all the jumping all over the place and waving the mic stand around. Granted, Arnel is a great lead singer, but he will never be a great frontman. Sadly, Journey needs both.

Agreed.
Leave the creative end to the band, but give the executive calls to somebody else.
Neal was initially against Perry being brought into the fold, so what does he know?
This band needs a Herbie.

nikki wrote:The guy's diction can be corrected, but as a frontman, he just doesn't make the cut. He seemed like he didn't know what to do on Ellen during Neal's solos with all the jumping all over the place and waving the mic stand around. Granted, Arnel is a great lead singer, but he will never be a great frontman. Sadly, Journey needs both.

He absolutely doesn't know what to do. That was his very first time to sing on tv. Give him one tour to settle in and settle his nerves. If his voice holds out, God willing, I think we'll see a whole different person by the end of the tour.

Rick wrote:He absolutely doesn't know what to do. That was his very first time to sing on tv. Give him one tour to settle in and settle his nerves. If his voice holds out, God willing, I think we'll see a whole different person by the end of the tour.

This is Journey, dude.
There's no time for on-the-job training.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Rick wrote:He absolutely doesn't know what to do. That was his very first time to sing on tv. Give him one tour to settle in and settle his nerves. If his voice holds out, God willing, I think we'll see a whole different person by the end of the tour.

This is Journey, dude.
There's no time for on-the-job training.

nikki wrote:The guy's diction can be corrected, but as a frontman, he just doesn't make the cut. He seemed like he didn't know what to do on Ellen during Neal's solos with all the jumping all over the place and waving the mic stand around. Granted, Arnel is a great lead singer, but he will never be a great frontman. Sadly, Journey needs both.

By all accounts he's done great as a front man at the actual concerts so far. Maybe he gets rid of some of the nervous energy by running around the stage normally which wasn't really on option on live TV.

I'm really starting to think Neal could have made things right with Steve Perry, somehow.

He absolutely doesn't know what to do. That was his very first time to sing on tv. Give him one tour to settle in and settle his nerves. If his voice holds out, God willing, I think we'll see a whole different person by the end of the tour.[/quote]

Maybe he will improve over time, but as a frontman, you either have 'it' or you don't. Nothing against Arnel, but I just don't see that magic in him.

Carlitto H@kk wrote:After watching the Ellen show performances multiple times
off my DVR, pumped thru the surround sound,
I am still having a hard time with Arnel's accent/phrasing.

In SW, his delivery is "slow" and "off-tempo".
During the chorus, the lines,
"Some day... Love will find you...
Break those... chains that bind you..."
are drawn out and slow, not short and precise.

And he does this throughout the whole song.
Maybe it's from having the original burned in my freaking brain
but it just doesn't translate well to me.
He has a great voice, don't get me wrong.
But his delivery and accent are still driving me nuts.

Hell, listen close to the AATY performances (what there was of it).
There is a line that goes,
"And I'm proud of all the blessings You have given me."

Arnel sings,
"And I'm proud of all the blessings You have give to me"

I don't want to bash the guy, but c'mon,
you may not be able to speak the english language well
in a conversation but these are lyrics, set in stone, that he
should surely be able to memorize, right???

I went back and relistend, he sings "given".

I do agree his nerves were hampering him just a little bit on SW, but Faithfully and AATY sounded awesome!

We have to give him time...Its great to watch him improve his dictation 10 times better than what it was.

About him not being a frontman, just revist the footage from Chile...enough said. Arnel knows how to rock! Vocalists tend to b more mellow on talk shows.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:This band needs a Herbie.

Agreed! Herbie would fix what needs to be fixed and DEMAND what songs be shown on television. And they wouldn't be 26 year old ones, that's for sure!

Saint John wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:This band needs a Herbie.

Agreed! Herbie would fix what needs to be fixed and DEMAND what songs be shown on television. And they wouldn't be 26 year old ones, that's for sure!

Journey probably thought, we have to reintroduce ourselves to America given we have not been on American TV for so long. And the audience goes, ok so this is the band that sings these hit songs, I think I will give their CD a shot and go out and buy it.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:After hearing every damn thing that I can find on youtube and other places I feel like Arnel may have bitten off more than he can chew... I am hoping it is only nerves but we wont really know until they hit the road for a bit.

For some reason I cant not imagine his voice being able to handle songs like Where were you, Escape, Line of fire etc when I hear him struggle with being on key in his upper range. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit.

I have never heard Augeri or Jss's first shows with the band and we all know this is the hardest shit on earth for a man to sing... Seems to be they were in a hurry to get something out and they lucked in to Arnel. I am just concerned that Arnel's voice is going to crap out fast. I dont know why but I feel like I an just tell from the way he is singing which for the most part is very good but man it seems like he is really pushing and lacks that strong head voice that allowed Perry to sing the high notes using way less air.

Maybe he will improve.. Maybe he will implode... Maybe he will turn in to a umpa lumpa and run away to fairy land....

People can slam me if they want,I ve been saying this all along.His pushing his voice to hard to be singing like that through out the whole tour.Also he is 40 years old,it wont get easier. If anyone sings where were you it will be Dean.

I agree with the comments regarding the cadence of his delivery. Although I think taht Arnel has an incredible voice, he needs to work on landing the lyrics ON the beat, not before and drawing them out or after and rushing them. And he does need to work on singing the lyrics correctly as well. Did anyone notice how he blew the opening line of AATY? (on Ellen) "faded wedding PHOSAGRAPH?" What the hell? I realize that sometimes one can trip over their own tongue, but it's stuff like this that will fuel the argument that Journey should have found someone Stateside to deliver the lyrics properly.

I agree with the comments regarding the cadence of his delivery. Although I think that Arnel has an incredible voice, he needs to work on landing the lyrics ON the beat, not before and drawing them out or after and rushing them. And he does need to work on singing the lyrics correctly as well. Did anyone notice how he blew the opening line of AATY? (on Ellen) "faded wedding PHOSAGRAPH?" What the hell? I realize that sometimes one can trip over their own tongue, but it's stuff like this that will fuel the argument that Journey should have found someone Stateside to deliver the lyrics properly.

Liquid_Drummer wrote:After hearing every damn thing that I can find on youtube and other places I feel like Arnel may have bitten off more than he can chew... I am hoping it is only nerves but we wont really know until they hit the road for a bit.

For some reason I cant not imagine his voice being able to handle songs like Where were you, Escape, Line of fire etc when I hear him struggle with being on key in his upper range. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit.

I have never heard Augeri or Jss's first shows with the band and we all know this is the hardest shit on earth for a man to sing... Seems to be they were in a hurry to get something out and they lucked in to Arnel. I am just concerned that Arnel's voice is going to crap out fast. I dont know why but I feel like I an just tell from the way he is singing which for the most part is very good but man it seems like he is really pushing and lacks that strong head voice that allowed Perry to sing the high notes using way less air.

Maybe he will improve.. Maybe he will implode... Maybe he will turn in to a umpa lumpa and run away to fairy land....

I started out HATING the idea of a new singer, heard Arnel, started enjoying his voice, heard Arnel with Journey, fell in love with his voice.

No singer will ever be 100% at every gig. Sometimes the flaws show us the humanity of it all especially on songs as hard as the Journey catalog.

His stage presence is fine. If he were just standing there people would bitch about that too.

BobbyinTN wrote:

Liquid_Drummer wrote:After hearing every damn thing that I can find on youtube and other places I feel like Arnel may have bitten off more than he can chew... I am hoping it is only nerves but we wont really know until they hit the road for a bit.

For some reason I cant not imagine his voice being able to handle songs like Where were you, Escape, Line of fire etc when I hear him struggle with being on key in his upper range. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit.

I have never heard Augeri or Jss's first shows with the band and we all know this is the hardest shit on earth for a man to sing... Seems to be they were in a hurry to get something out and they lucked in to Arnel. I am just concerned that Arnel's voice is going to crap out fast. I dont know why but I feel like I an just tell from the way he is singing which for the most part is very good but man it seems like he is really pushing and lacks that strong head voice that allowed Perry to sing the high notes using way less air.

Maybe he will improve.. Maybe he will implode... Maybe he will turn in to a umpa lumpa and run away to fairy land....

I started out HATING the idea of a new singer, heard Arnel, started enjoying his voice, heard Arnel with Journey, fell in love with his voice.

No singer will ever be 100% at every gig. Sometimes the flaws show us the humanity of it all especially on songs as hard as the Journey catalog.

His stage presence is fine. If he were just standing there people would bitch about that too.

Id rather watch him stand there and sing then alkwardlly jumping around like he did,

stevew2 wrote:Id rather watch him stand there and sing then alkwardlly jumping around like he did,

As much as I hate to post just after you again (not stalking honest) you surely meant that you would rather not watch him perform at all right or are you converting?

stevew2 wrote:

BobbyinTN wrote:

Liquid_Drummer wrote:After hearing every damn thing that I can find on youtube and other places I feel like Arnel may have bitten off more than he can chew... I am hoping it is only nerves but we wont really know until they hit the road for a bit.

For some reason I cant not imagine his voice being able to handle songs like Where were you, Escape, Line of fire etc when I hear him struggle with being on key in his upper range. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit.

I have never heard Augeri or Jss's first shows with the band and we all know this is the hardest shit on earth for a man to sing... Seems to be they were in a hurry to get something out and they lucked in to Arnel. I am just concerned that Arnel's voice is going to crap out fast. I dont know why but I feel like I an just tell from the way he is singing which for the most part is very good but man it seems like he is really pushing and lacks that strong head voice that allowed Perry to sing the high notes using way less air.

Maybe he will improve.. Maybe he will implode... Maybe he will turn in to a umpa lumpa and run away to fairy land....

I started out HATING the idea of a new singer, heard Arnel, started enjoying his voice, heard Arnel with Journey, fell in love with his voice.

No singer will ever be 100% at every gig. Sometimes the flaws show us the humanity of it all especially on songs as hard as the Journey catalog.

His stage presence is fine. If he were just standing there people would bitch about that too.

Id rather watch him stand there and sing then alkwardlly jumping around like he did,

Well, for me it's always been about the singing. I know some people want those David Lee Roth antics, but honestly front men like DLR always seem to over compensate with "stage presence" when they don't have the voice to back it up. I guess I've just been an old fogey since I was 20. I never understood the standing up thing during a whole concert when there are seats and short people like me. LOL

SteveForever wrote:I'm really starting to think Neal could have made things right with Steve Perry, somehow.

Puhleaze...... give this up... Neal could NEVER make things right with Steve. Why do people still persist in this pipedream?


The guy hit a few flat notes in Separate Ways and people already want to can him. Never mind that the tv mix was dreadful or that SW was the first song they played. Some of you have wanted to can him before he was in the band.

Faithfully and AATY were amazingly good, much better than I heard Augeri EVER sing Faithfully. Jss's first shows were much worse than anything I've heard from Arnel and people were behind him from day one. I don't get it.

You're taking a 3 minute performance of one song (one song that was chopped up from the arrangement) and you're ready to give up on the guy. I'm not suggesting blindly backing the guy. Sounds like I do, but I actually don't. I'm just saying, it was live TV. No band sounds good live on TV. I saw Styx on Arsenio a billion years ago and they sucked. I saw Led Zepplin at Live Aid and they were THE WORST BAND AND SINGER I'd EVER seen ANYWHERE. I saw the Who at Live Aid have their arrangement completely screwed up because Daltrey got away from the pre-recorded keys in Won't Get Fooled Again. I saw Augeri's horrible morning performance. I saw David Lee Roth and VH in Seattle and Roth was terrible. I saw Steve Perry and Journey Butcher songs at Bill Graham's memorial.

It's one performance and it's Rock and Roll. Keep it in perspective.

It's not like Augeri where from day one, he'd go into his falsetto and could never be heard in the first place. Arnel's got power, he's got range. He can do the job IF HE PACES HIMSELF and is careful with his voice.

As far as his stage presence, a performance coach would be a good idea. I've seen a lot worse front guys- Go see the Stones new movie. Mick is embarrassingly bad. Looks ridiculous. I'll take Arnel's "I'm just happy to be here" vibe over Mick thinking he's a chick any day.

Herbie Herbert would definitely help the entire situation, but I'm not giving up on Arnel yet. When I go see them with Heart and Cheap Trick, that's when I'll really know, but until then, I'm not basing it on an Ellen Degeneres guest spot.

One of my favorite quotes "Playing Live means never having to say you're sorry"- Steve F'ing Perry.

BobbyinTN wrote:

stevew2 wrote:

BobbyinTN wrote:

Liquid_Drummer wrote:After hearing every damn thing that I can find on youtube and other places I feel like Arnel may have bitten off more than he can chew... I am hoping it is only nerves but we wont really know until they hit the road for a bit.

For some reason I cant not imagine his voice being able to handle songs like Where were you, Escape, Line of fire etc when I hear him struggle with being on key in his upper range. Maybe I am jumping the gun a bit.

I have never heard Augeri or Jss's first shows with the band and we all know this is the hardest shit on earth for a man to sing... Seems to be they were in a hurry to get something out and they lucked in to Arnel. I am just concerned that Arnel's voice is going to crap out fast. I dont know why but I feel like I an just tell from the way he is singing which for the most part is very good but man it seems like he is really pushing and lacks that strong head voice that allowed Perry to sing the high notes using way less air.

Maybe he will improve.. Maybe he will implode... Maybe he will turn in to a umpa lumpa and run away to fairy land....

I started out HATING the idea of a new singer, heard Arnel, started enjoying his voice, heard Arnel with Journey, fell in love with his voice.

No singer will ever be 100% at every gig. Sometimes the flaws show us the humanity of it all especially on songs as hard as the Journey catalog.

His stage presence is fine. If he were just standing there people would bitch about that too.

Id rather watch him stand there and sing then alkwardlly jumping around like he did,

Well, for me it's always been about the singing. I know some people want those David Lee Roth antics, but honestly front men like DLR always seem to over compensate with "stage presence" when they don't have the voice to back it up. I guess I've just been an old fogey since I was 20. I never understood the standing up thing during a whole concert when there are seats and short people like me. LOL

Moving around is good if it is done tastefully, and in time, and dosent distract unless, your Prince or Madonna and thats part of their act