MR

This relates to any type of Journey release from over the years; Infinty Escape, Greatest Hits, etc.

This time out, I'm going with Captured. All the material from the first three Perry led albums but with out the molasses pace of the recordings, combined with a less histrionic vocal performance and closer to what we were to get with Escape. Even the one studio track The Party's Over is outstanding as we begin the transition away from Rolie's heavy hammond sound and closer towards what Cain (not featured on this album) was about to bring to the table.
10 out of 10 for me.

Captured would be a 10 out of 10 for me if not for the songs themselves. This is the one Journey album Perry saved singlehandedly.

Still bouncing back and forth between TBF and Eclipse.

Gideon wrote:Captured would be a 10 out of 10 for me if not for the songs themselves. This is the one Journey album Perry saved singlehandedly.

Still bouncing back and forth between TBF and Eclipse.

Those two are in my top three for another thread I'll start up in a bit.

But honestly, no Journey album is a 10 out of 10 for me. Actually, no album has earned that score from me. After a listen or two, there's generally something noticeably wrong or flawed with any CD.

But then I may just be obnoxiously critical.

Gideon wrote:But honestly, no Journey album is a 10 out of 10 for me. Actually, no album has earned that score from me. After a listen or two, there's generally something noticeably wrong or flawed with any CD.

But then I may just be obnoxiously critical.

You'll go bald early if you keep that shit up.

Don wrote:

Gideon wrote:But honestly, no Journey album is a 10 out of 10 for me. Actually, no album has earned that score from me. After a listen or two, there's generally something noticeably wrong or flawed with any CD.

But then I may just be obnoxiously critical.

You'll go bald early if you keep that shit up.

Lord I hope not.

Gideon wrote: Actually, no album has earned that score from me. After a listen or two, there's generally something noticeably wrong or flawed with any CD.

Damn Gid... you ARE critical. So we're talkin' not even Dark Side of the Moon? Led Zep 4? None of the Beatles albums? Yanni Live at the Acropolis??
Hell, there are probably a dozen albums I'd score a 10 - and Captured is one of them. Without question, I've listened to that album start to finish at least a hundred times more than any other Journey album for sure and maybe even more than any album by any band... I think the big "It" factor about Captured is the incredibly well done harmonies they were able to pull off in the gigantic venues they were playing at that time (stadiums, 20,000 seat arenas). It's also what I envisioned a Perry-fronted Journey concert to be like - or at least it was prior to the age of technology and downloads, etc. Unfortunately I never saw them live with Perry and I'll hate myself for that as long as I live - especially given the fact I'M FROM SAN FRANCISCO!! Not just the Bay area, but the freakin' city of!!
Having had a copy of that album in one format or another since it was released, but never having seen Perry live, it was extremely cool when Don alerted us to the corresponding videos of the songs I had only ever had the audio of. That was very cool for me. It was like being given the gift of sight after not being able to see for so long.
ROR and Escape are close to being a 10 for me but each has a track I could do without.

I take those sort of scores very seriously. A 10 out of 10, for me, is essentially perfection. When I listen to a song, I engross myself in its nuances so miniscule errors can detract from the experience. Trial By Fire and Eclipse are neck-and-neck for my two favorite Journey albums ever and I wouldn't score them any higher than an 8.5/10.

Evolution is my all-time favorite Journey album.

Captured Live is my favorite live album and second favorite Journey album.

it had been between Revelation and Eclipse for me but last week I finally heard Arrival and that might have them beat

Don wrote:This relates to any type of Journey release from over the years; Infinty Escape, Greatest Hits, etc.

This time out, I'm going with Captured. All the material from the first three Perry led albums but with out the molasses pace of the recordings, combined with a less histrionic vocal performance and closer to what we were to get with Escape. Even the one studio track The Party's Over is outstanding as we begin the transition away from Rolie's heavy hammond sound and closer towards what Cain (not featured on this album) was about to bring to the table.
10 out of 10 for me.

I agree with everything stated, with the exception of the histrionics. What you refer to as histrionics I refer to as vocal stylings -- and me likes 'em.

Also, The Party's Over shows Schon and Perry's musical direction was shifting to the Escape sound before Cain joined. Not downplaying Cain's contributions. I think he got them there faster, but here the thing I've always wondered:

Perry's leanings are softer toward soul and emotion, while Schon's are toward rock. Perfect creative counter balance between them and therein lies the chemistry. With Cain in the mix, the creative leanings went 2/3 toward soft. Stevie Roseman did a great job with Party's Over. I've always wondered what an album's worth of his involvement would have looked like sans Cain.

STORY_TELLER wrote:Perry's leanings are softer toward soul and emotion, while Schon's are toward rock. Perfect creative counter balance between them and therein lies the chemistry. With Cain in the mix, the creative leanings went 2/3 toward soft.

Not really. Journey's heaviest tracks came from the Cain era and were co-written by him. It's crazy how anti-Cain you are.

Gideon wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Perry's leanings are softer toward soul and emotion, while Schon's are toward rock. Perfect creative counter balance between them and therein lies the chemistry. With Cain in the mix, the creative leanings went 2/3 toward soft.

Not really. Journey's heaviest tracks came from the Cain era and were co-written by him. It's crazy how anti-Cain you are.

What's crazy is you drew a conclusion that I'm anti Cain. I'm not. I don't like his work of late but I love his contributions to the Perry era. Arrival was strong, but Augeri wasn't the right vocalist and it lacked that 3rd melody molding element to make it great. I think Cain's fallen off since then and his latest work on Eclipse was really a turn off. It's not that he's not a good writer so much as this wasn't his wheelhouse. I don't think he knew what to do with the harder progressive guitar and the lyrics are too on the nose for my tastes. In the end, I don't think he's as good without Perry's contributions to the writing (for those who will pick this apart, this includes lyrics, melodies, overall structure and final execution of the song).

I think it's safe to say anything heavy coming from Journey is sourced from Neal. It might include Cain's involvement, but I seriously doubt he contributes from the heavy point of view. His contributions in Journey are part of the counterbalance to Neal's leanings.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

Gideon wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:Perry's leanings are softer toward soul and emotion, while Schon's are toward rock. Perfect creative counter balance between them and therein lies the chemistry. With Cain in the mix, the creative leanings went 2/3 toward soft.

Not really. Journey's heaviest tracks came from the Cain era and were co-written by him. It's crazy how anti-Cain you are.

What's crazy is you drew a conclusion that I'm anti Cain. I'm not.

I'm just busting your balls, I don't think you're anti-Cain.

In fact, what I truly think is crazy is how we're unable to post dissenting viewpoints or criticize band members past and present without such accusations being lobbed at us.

I might not agree with your take on Eclipse, but I concur with your assessment about Cain and the wheelhouse.

When I look back at the Pineda shows I saw vs the shows from 81 and 83 that I got to see, I think what I miss most about the latter is the ad-libbing and spontaneity of everything (especially from the two Escape shows in 1981).
Just the fun and smiles coming from the entire band, not the workman like atmosphere they seem to personify these days. I can still remember Perry asking for a joint from the audience during the seque into Stone In love. Unfortunately, none of that goofy stage charisma is coming from the band these days. Never saw them with Augeri so I can't speak for that era but whether it be that Pineda is uncomfortable with addressing the audience or what have you, their performances this last five years have been pretty sterile. That's one of the main reasons I have my doubts about the vitality a new live album would bring. They would probably have to heavily script it to keep it from being downright bland. I get it that it's not in Arnel's nature to be a leader but damn, when no one else steps up to take the that spot during their shows, you can almost believe that's it's become as much a regular job to those guys as it is for Pineda. No need to yap like Benatar or Cronin but a little something to let folks know for the ticket price, they're getting a bit more than just a detuned version of their CDs at home.

More to the topic at hand, I think Cain did a great job with The Party's Over live, not to mention Neal's noodling here just compliments the song so well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0srUWM ... 9917E12E0B

Don wrote:When I look back at the Pineda shows I saw vs the shows from 81 and 83 that I got to see, I think what I miss most about the latter is the ad-libbing and spontaneity of everything (especially from the two Escape shows in 1981).
Just the fun and smiles coming from the entire band, not the workman like atmosphere they seem to personify these days. I can still remember Perry asking for a joint from the audience during the seque into Stone In love. Unfortunately, none of that goofy stage charisma is coming from the band these days. Never saw them with Augeri so I can't speak for that era but whether it be that Pineda is uncomfortable with addressing the audience or what have you, their performances this last five years have been pretty sterile. That's one of the main reasons I have my doubts about the vitality a new live album would bring. They would probably have to heavily script it to keep it from being downright bland. I get it that it's not in Arnel's nature to be a leader but damn, when no one else steps up to take the that spot during their shows, you can almost believe that's it's become as much a regular job to those guys as it is for Pineda. No need to yap like Benatar or Cronin but a little something to let folks know for the ticket price, they're getting a bit more than just a detuned version of their CDs at home.

More to the topic at hand, I think Cain did a great job with The Party's Over live, not to mention Neal's noodling here just compliments the song so well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0srUWM ... 9917E12E0B

To the former, Perry had oodles of charisma. Looking at the recent video of him leading a baseball stadium in a rendition of lights during the playoffs, I'd have to say he's still knows how to command an audience.

To the latter, Cain did (and does) a great job playing keys on every song from every era. I was only discussing the creative creation of songs, not performing them.

Side note:
Fucking love Smitty on this song and I really miss his sound in the band.

Don wrote:When I look back at the Pineda shows I saw vs the shows from 81 and 83 that I got to see, I think what I miss most about the latter is the ad-libbing and spontaneity of everything (especially from the two Escape shows in 1981).
Just the fun and smiles coming from the entire band, not the workman like atmosphere they seem to personify these days. I can still remember Perry asking for a joint from the audience during the seque into Stone In love. Unfortunately, none of that goofy stage charisma is coming from the band these days. Never saw them with Augeri so I can't speak for that era but whether it be that Pineda is uncomfortable with addressing the audience or what have you, their performances this last five years have been pretty sterile. That's one of the main reasons I have my doubts about the vitality a new live album would bring. They would probably have to heavily script it to keep it from being downright bland. I get it that it's not in Arnel's nature to be a leader but damn, when no one else steps up to take the that spot during their shows, you can almost believe that's it's become as much a regular job to those guys as it is for Pineda. No need to yap like Benatar or Cronin but a little something to let folks know for the ticket price, they're getting a bit more than just a detuned version of their CDs at home.

More to the topic at hand, I think Cain did a great job with The Party's Over live, not to mention Neal's noodling here just compliments the song so well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0srUWM ... 9917E12E0B

It's really different strokes. To me, Perry was goofy as hell until ROR; he's energetic when the song demands it (BGTY) and smooth as silk other times (GCHI). Everyone and their mother around here says Soto embodies charisma, but I don't agree. Pineda is "charismatic" in the sense that there's an attractive vibrancy he radiates: it's evident that he's happy to be on stage and some people eat it up. Other times, his athleticism and energy are overpowering and clash with his more subdued bandmates, leading to dissonance.

Honestly, I preferred Augeri's approach to all of them. But, with Arnel especially, it depends on who you ask.

Gideon wrote:

Don wrote:When I look back at the Pineda shows I saw vs the shows from 81 and 83 that I got to see, I think what I miss most about the latter is the ad-libbing and spontaneity of everything (especially from the two Escape shows in 1981).
Just the fun and smiles coming from the entire band, not the workman like atmosphere they seem to personify these days. I can still remember Perry asking for a joint from the audience during the seque into Stone In love. Unfortunately, none of that goofy stage charisma is coming from the band these days. Never saw them with Augeri so I can't speak for that era but whether it be that Pineda is uncomfortable with addressing the audience or what have you, their performances this last five years have been pretty sterile. That's one of the main reasons I have my doubts about the vitality a new live album would bring. They would probably have to heavily script it to keep it from being downright bland. I get it that it's not in Arnel's nature to be a leader but damn, when no one else steps up to take the that spot during their shows, you can almost believe that's it's become as much a regular job to those guys as it is for Pineda. No need to yap like Benatar or Cronin but a little something to let folks know for the ticket price, they're getting a bit more than just a detuned version of their CDs at home.

More to the topic at hand, I think Cain did a great job with The Party's Over live, not to mention Neal's noodling here just compliments the song so well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0srUWM ... 9917E12E0B

It's really different strokes. To me, Perry was goofy as hell until ROR; he's energetic when the song demands it (BGTY) and smooth as silk other times (GCHI). Everyone and their mother around here says Soto embodies charisma, but I don't agree. Pineda is "charismatic" in the sense that there's an attractive vibrancy he radiates: it's evident that he's happy to be on stage and some people eat it up. Other times, his athleticism and energy are overpowering and clash with his more subdued bandmates, leading to dissonance.

Honestly, I preferred Augeri's approach to all of them. But, with Arnel especially, it depends on who you ask.

Perry was goofy on stage, I 'll agree to that but That's part of the charm I guess. Every show I went to back then had it's own personality. Rush, Ozzy, Genesis. Pink Floyd weren't chatterboxes but that was the Gilmour era and their shows are such a production any unwarranted dialog could almost be considered distracting. I'm probably being unfair and a quick checks of the memory banks seem to reveal that this is an inherent problem with a lot of the shows today as they just want to run through their setlist and get the hell out of there because they have to get on the plane, bus or whatever for the next gig. One thing I will say from own experience is back then if you were to go to a meet and greet, you met the entire band, it wasn't like now where one or two members come out and have to represent but that is from my own experiences, others may remember differently.

Gideon wrote:

Don wrote:When I look back at the Pineda shows I saw vs the shows from 81 and 83 that I got to see, I think what I miss most about the latter is the ad-libbing and spontaneity of everything (especially from the two Escape shows in 1981).
Just the fun and smiles coming from the entire band, not the workman like atmosphere they seem to personify these days. I can still remember Perry asking for a joint from the audience during the seque into Stone In love. Unfortunately, none of that goofy stage charisma is coming from the band these days. Never saw them with Augeri so I can't speak for that era but whether it be that Pineda is uncomfortable with addressing the audience or what have you, their performances this last five years have been pretty sterile. That's one of the main reasons I have my doubts about the vitality a new live album would bring. They would probably have to heavily script it to keep it from being downright bland. I get it that it's not in Arnel's nature to be a leader but damn, when no one else steps up to take the that spot during their shows, you can almost believe that's it's become as much a regular job to those guys as it is for Pineda. No need to yap like Benatar or Cronin but a little something to let folks know for the ticket price, they're getting a bit more than just a detuned version of their CDs at home.

More to the topic at hand, I think Cain did a great job with The Party's Over live, not to mention Neal's noodling here just compliments the song so well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0srUWM ... 9917E12E0B

It's really different strokes. To me, Perry was goofy as hell until ROR; he's energetic when the song demands it (BGTY) and smooth as silk other times (GCHI). Everyone and their mother around here says Soto embodies charisma, but I don't agree. Pineda is "charismatic" in the sense that there's an attractive vibrancy he radiates: it's evident that he's happy to be on stage and some people eat it up. Other times, his athleticism and energy are overpowering and clash with his more subdued bandmates, leading to dissonance.

Honestly, I preferred Augeri's approach to all of them. But, with Arnel especially, it depends on who you ask.

I like Pineda's energy. I also understand that doesn't work for everyone. I think he brings the rest of the band up a bit, except Ross, who will always look like a dead man playing bass and has for the last 25 years. I actually enjoyed Randy Jackson's stage antics.