MR

I've been wondering this for awhile. All the great legendary bands have iconic lead singer/lead guitarist combos- Jon Bon Jovi/Richie Sambora, Mick Jagger/Keith Richards, and to a much lesser extent Steven Tyler/Joe Perry, etc. Journey has a bunch of iconic hits spanning decades- yet everyone knows Steve Perry and Neal Schon's basically forgotten. Which hardly seems fair considering all his great guitar solos. But why is that?

Here Neal Schon is- a guitar child prodigy who had Santana and Eric Clapton fighting over him, fronted several semi succesful bands, has a string of hits, and started one of the most famous bands of the '70s/'80s. Yet, he's probably most famous now for marrying that gold digging trollop (please someone tell me that NS got an air tight pre-nup against this hoochie ).

I have no ideas. Why do you think Neal Schon has no name recognition?

Final Frontiers wrote:
I have no ideas. Why do you think Neal Schon has no name recognition?

Steve had a better barber ???

Those singer/guitarist tandems you mentioned have been together for 30+ years. Steve and Neal barely made a decade.

During the whole Salahi thing I would cringe every time they would say "Journey Guitarist" w/o even mentioning his name,
or even of they did mispronounce it.

Fact Finder wrote:It would be an interesting poll to ask a census question which Rock Stars are household names. Just because all of us here know Perry I'd bet there are at least 30% to 40% of Americans who couldn't pick him out of a line up. Believe it or not, I'd say there are 10% or more of Americans who wouldn't know Don't Stop Believing from She'll be coming 'round the Mountain.

Good point on how well known Steve Perry is to the general American public. It would be very interesting to find out. What really affected his popularity over the years is his inactivity and reclusiveness. Many people have forgotten who he is because off that. I would say maybe even 50% of Americans have no clue who Perry is. Wasnt Journey even considered a "Faceless" band at one point?

If Neal was EVH, SRV, or Hendrix.. essentially "brands" in their own right... then he'd be remembered like them..

The truth is Neal really didn't change music the way they did, so he doesn't have the same notoriety... It doesn't take away from his musical prowess... but does put him in a less recognized category...

scarab wrote:During the whole Salahi thing I would cringe every time they would say "Journey Guitarist" w/o even mentioning his name,
or even of they did mispronounce it.

Yeah ...remember letting out a laugh 1st time I caught a blip in one of those entertainment news 1/2-hr shows ... "Journey guitarist, Neal "Shown" (as the TV screen showed the face of SP singing Don't Stop Believin') -- brief excerpt from Houston Live dvd ... haha, hilarious.

Neal has played Hard Rock and even Heavy Metal in Journey, Bad English, Hardline, Soul Sirkus, HSAS and with many other performers.

But, because he has gotten the most radio airplay with songs like "Open Arms" "Faithfully" "Who's Cryin' Now" "Don't Stop Believin'" "When I See You Smile" "Price Of Love" and other songs that aren't considered Hard Rock, Neal isn't taken seriously by headbangers, and is not given nearly enough credit as a great guitarist.

In reality, Neal plays circles around most (If not all) of the famous Metal guitarists. But try telling that to headbangers.

I've seen morons who try to claim that guitarists like Kurt Cobain and Chuck Berry are better than Neal. No disrespect to Chuck Berry, he deserves credit as one of the early pioneers of Rock guitar. But to compare him with Neal freaking Schon is insanity.

And Kurt Cobain??? Give me a break.

Journey/Survivor wrote:Neal has played Hard Rock and even Heavy Metal in Journey, Bad English, Hardline, Soul Sirkus, HSAS and with many other performers.

But, because he has gotten the most radio airplay with songs like "Open Arms" "Faithfully" "Who's Cryin' Now" "Don't Stop Believin'" "When I See You Smile" "Price Of Love" and other songs that aren't considered Hard Rock, Neal isn't taken seriously by headbangers, and is not given nearly enough credit as a great guitarist.

In reality, Neal plays circles around most (If not all) of the famous Metal guitarists. But try telling that to headbangers.

I've seen morons who try to claim that guitarists like Kurt Cobain and Chuck Berry are better than Neal. No disrespect to Chuck Berry, he deserves credit as one of the early pioneers of Rock guitar. But to compare him with Neal freaking Schon is insanity.

And Kurt Cobain??? Give me a break.

I think that's the point.. just being a great guitarist (which Neal most certainly is) is simply not enough to gain access to the "legends" club... the guitarists you cite (Cobain, Chuck Berry) are benchmarks for the music they made, and the era's they performed in...

Neal unfortunately can't lay claim to changing music or being the benchmark for an era... so he slips just under the "legends" radar, just another great guitar player in a great band..

Perry OTOH... can lay claim to (or is being given the lion share or credit for) changing music to some degree, as those Journey power ballads he sang on were the 1st of their kind, and the simple fact that they appear to have a longer shelf life than the rest of the Journey catalog only further cements the association of Perry to that kind of singing... reinforcing the legend.

slucero wrote:

Journey/Survivor wrote:I think that's the point.. just being a great guitarist (which Neal most certainly is) is simply not enough to gain access to the "legends" club... the guitarists you cite (Cobain, Chuck Berry) are benchmarks for the music they made, and the era's they performed in...

Neal unfortunately can't lay claim to changing music or being the benchmark for an era... so he slips just under the "legends" radar, just another great guitar player in a great band..

Perry OTOH... can lay claim to (or is being given the lion share or credit for) changing music to some degree, as those Journey power ballads he sang on were the 1st of their kind, and the simple fact that they appear to have a longer shelf life than the rest of the Journey catalog only further cements the association of Perry to that kind of singing... reinforcing the legend.

I get the point you're trying to make, but don't think I agree. If Journey led in the definition of the 'power ballad' (and I think most would agree that they did), then wouldn't you agree that Neal put the 'power' in power ballad? Otherwise, it's just another sappy love song.

koberry wrote:

slucero wrote:

Journey/Survivor wrote:I think that's the point.. just being a great guitarist (which Neal most certainly is) is simply not enough to gain access to the "legends" club... the guitarists you cite (Cobain, Chuck Berry) are benchmarks for the music they made, and the era's they performed in...

Neal unfortunately can't lay claim to changing music or being the benchmark for an era... so he slips just under the "legends" radar, just another great guitar player in a great band..

Perry OTOH... can lay claim to (or is being given the lion share or credit for) changing music to some degree, as those Journey power ballads he sang on were the 1st of their kind, and the simple fact that they appear to have a longer shelf life than the rest of the Journey catalog only further cements the association of Perry to that kind of singing... reinforcing the legend.

I get the point you're trying to make, but don't think I agree. If Journey led in the definition of the 'power ballad' (and I think most would agree that they did), then wouldn't you agree that Neal put the 'power' in power ballad? Otherwise, it's just another sappy love song.

I think that's because even though Journey (the band) brought the power ballad to its status... there is no guitar virtuosity (perceived) in it... so Neal doesn't get any special recognition, and isn't seen as the "face" of the power ballad...


Perry however is.. (and to some degree JC)


It's why the media goes nuts when Perry farts and pays no attention to Neal...

slucero wrote:I think that's because even though Journey (the band) brought the power ballad to its status... there is no guitar virtuosity (perceived) in it... so Neal doesn't get any special recognition, and isn't seen as the "face" of the power ballad...


Perry however is.. (and to some degree JC)


It's why the media goes nuts when Perry farts and pays no attention to Neal...

I think you're overstating Perry's popularity tremendously. He's no JBJ, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler. Fact is, while he's more famous than Neal or any other member of Journey, he is most decidedly not top tier to the public.

ebake02 wrote:Those singer/guitarist tandems you mentioned have been together for 30+ years. Steve and Neal barely made a decade.

I don't know if that works to make the point ...the beatles were only together what 7- 8 yrs

Gideon wrote:

slucero wrote:I think that's because even though Journey (the band) brought the power ballad to its status... there is no guitar virtuosity (perceived) in it... so Neal doesn't get any special recognition, and isn't seen as the "face" of the power ballad...


Perry however is.. (and to some degree JC)


It's why the media goes nuts when Perry farts and pays no attention to Neal...

I think you're overstating Perry's popularity tremendously. He's no JBJ, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler. Fact is, while he's more famous than Neal or any other member of Journey, he is most decidedly not top tier to the public.

Right. All of those frontmen have kept their names out there in the public relm and music industry. They didnt quit the business all together and basically step out of the spotlight for years. They remained out there doing tv shows, putting out new music, and touring. Perry's reclusiveness killed him in that respect. In the 80s the guy couldnt go anywhere without being noticed.

jrny84 wrote:

Gideon wrote:

slucero wrote:I think that's because even though Journey (the band) brought the power ballad to its status... there is no guitar virtuosity (perceived) in it... so Neal doesn't get any special recognition, and isn't seen as the "face" of the power ballad...


Perry however is.. (and to some degree JC)


It's why the media goes nuts when Perry farts and pays no attention to Neal...

I think you're overstating Perry's popularity tremendously. He's no JBJ, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler. Fact is, while he's more famous than Neal or any other member of Journey, he is most decidedly not top tier to the public.

Right. All of those frontmen have kept their names out there in the public relm and music industry. They didnt quit the business all together and basically step out of the spotlight for years. They remained out there doing tv shows, putting out new music, and touring. Perry's reclusiveness killed him in that respect. In the 80s the guy couldnt go anywhere without being noticed.

I don't know about that, I would be willing to bet that any of the radio stations etc. if given the choice of JBJ yet again or the elusive SP, they would pick SP for an interview.

I think Slucero is right, Perry farts and they take notice. All he has to do is sing one line of song at a benefit and it's all over the place.

LOL Giddy, they may be more currently popular, but thank gawd he's no JBJ, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler......dude could sing circles around their pipes. Especially the first 2.

yulog wrote:

ebake02 wrote:Those singer/guitarist tandems you mentioned have been together for 30+ years. Steve and Neal barely made a decade.

I don't know if that works to make the point ...the beatles were only together what 7- 8 yrs

The Beatles are on a completely different planet too.

Gideon wrote:

slucero wrote:I think that's because even though Journey (the band) brought the power ballad to its status... there is no guitar virtuosity (perceived) in it... so Neal doesn't get any special recognition, and isn't seen as the "face" of the power ballad...


Perry however is.. (and to some degree JC)


It's why the media goes nuts when Perry farts and pays no attention to Neal...

I think you're overstating Perry's popularity tremendously. He's no JBJ, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler. Fact is, while he's more famous than Neal or any other member of Journey, he is most decidedly not top tier to the public.

heya Gid.. long time no argue...

You'd be correct if I meant to compare Perry to JBJ, Jagger, or Tyler.. but I wasn't. Sorry if you took it that way.

I was only saying in context with Neal, JC and the other members of Journey... Perry is what the lay person thinks of when they hear those power ballads.. Neal is just thought of (if at all) as "the guitarist"....

to me I think the primary reason Neal is not more of an instantly recognizable icon is because he came from a genre or music and time frame that most of the biggest bands were essentially considered "faceless"........Journey is probably the biggest of those bands but I think they all sort of suffer that issue. bands like Styx, Foreigner, Boston, Cheap Trick, Kansas and Journey all have that thing where tons of "casual" music fans confuse which band released which songs.....lol

or a casual fan may sort of know the name of Dennis DeYoung but then say something like "wasnt he in Foreigner?"

even though many of those bands from the late 70's and early 80's sold tons of records and played "enormo domes" in every town they just never really crossed over to that visual iconic status......for the most part with a few exceptions.

slucero wrote:If Neal was EVH, SRV, or Hendrix.. essentially "brands" in their own right... then he'd be remembered like them..

The truth is Neal really didn't change music the way they did, so he doesn't have the same notoriety... It doesn't take away from his musical prowess... but does put him in a less recognized category...

^ this

Good thread.

I've noticed the same thing as OP. Neal's a better guitarist than Santana but doesn't have the name rec.

Neal's played it safe. Although he's done a few solo's, he banked his success on groups. Made good money so stayed there.

Had he ditched groups when Journey first split (late '87?) and only done solo work he'd either be more famous or forgotten altogether.

Stevie Ray was part of a group that had a different singer (Lou Ann Barton iirc). She left so he took a chance fronting Double Trouble and it worked out.

Name recognition didn't escape Neal. He left it behind in the '80s.

I wouldn't worry about it. Neal's peers know what an accomplished geetar player he is. IMO, he rocked best & hardest in HSAS.

This has happened to a lot of guys, though. Steve Lynch was cited by many an aspiring young guitarist when Autograph was a thing, but that was long ago. You don't hear his name dropped name except by maybe a Sirius deejay who introduces "Turn Up The Radio."

Guys like Montrose, Blackmore, Van Halen, Emmett, Morse and Iommi continue to be referenced because they're known for having pushed the boundary posts further out with respect to their times. Notice that those guys, especially Montrose, EVH and Iommi, perfected a signature TONE.

Journey/Survivor wrote:Neal has played Hard Rock and even Heavy Metal in Journey, Bad English, Hardline, Soul Sirkus, HSAS and with many other performers.

But, because he has gotten the most radio airplay with songs like "Open Arms" "Faithfully" "Who's Cryin' Now" "Don't Stop Believin'" "When I See You Smile" "Price Of Love" and other songs that aren't considered Hard Rock, Neal isn't taken seriously by headbangers, and is not given nearly enough credit as a great guitarist.

You'd be surprised. On a recent installment of That Metal Show with Leslie West and Mick Jones, none other than Marty Friedman praised Mick's solo on "Hot-Blooded"...check it and see!

Journey/Survivor wrote:In reality, Neal plays circles around most (If not all) of the famous Metal guitarists. But try telling that to headbangers.

Don't let your fanboyness go to your head. "All"? No. Neal is a great guitarist, but he is not better than guys like Randy Jackson (Zebra), Rik Emmett (Triumph), Marty Friedman (ex-Megadeth), Chris Poland (Ohm, ex-Megadeth), Vinnie Moore (currently earns a paycheck in UFO) and Steve Morse (Dregs/Deep Purple). Some guys like Jeff Beck are in a class all their own. And it's still sad to see Neal exalted at Carlos Santana's expense. Carlos may not have built his success on his technique, but nonetheless he created a sound all his own at a time when there was nothing else like it.

Now, if by "famous" you mean guys like Angus Young, Mick Mars and C.C. DeVille (LOL), then yes, Neal easily plays circles around those guys.

Journey/Survivor wrote:I've seen morons who try to claim that guitarists like Kurt Cobain and Chuck Berry are better than Neal. No disrespect to Chuck Berry, he deserves credit as one of the early pioneers of Rock guitar. But to compare him with Neal freaking Schon is insanity.

By no means is it as crazy as all the douchebag drummers who still think Ringo is the "greatest drummer ever." People say stupid shit.

Journey/Survivor wrote:And Kurt Cobain??? Give me a break.

Nobody thinks that guy was a good guitarist. He was primarily a songwriter.