MR

https://youtu.be/TmTuynp-P_Y?si=laRtP3GhT6pspC3G

From JSS's social media:

"A couple pics from the jam last night, video coming soon, I'm waiting for the quality clips to post...I sang Stone In Love (Journey) 1st dueting with my bro Paulie Z, Nuno Bettencourt, Phil X, Billy Sheehan, Matt Starr and Sven Martin."

Couple things.

Love JSS. Dang it.
Idea...hire two lead singers to share the load and some backup singers and a rhythm guitar player. This, plus Deen and you would have an awesome sounding vocal sound to go along with Neal's playing. Be like a full Pink Floyd production.
Hearing accomplished guitar players trying to play Neal gives me even more appreciation for Neal.

Having JSS back in Journey would be most welcome. Deen and him together would be a great vocal team plus he's got great stage presence, which is lacking in the band today. Basically, they would have a frontman again. Perry, Augeri and JSS are all natural frontmen. Arnel is doing a lot of jumping around but his stage presence is closer to that of an excited fan being let up onstage than actually being the frontman.

danielb wrote:Arnel is doing a lot of jumping around but his stage presence is closer to that of an excited fan being let up onstage than actually being the frontman.

Brave opinion. You're not wrong tho.

If someone is both a great singer and a great frontman at the same time, then that's great. But singing should always be without question the most important aspect of being a lead singer in a band. I ultimately don't care how great of a frontman someone is if they aren't a great singer. Or, even if they are a great singer in general, but can't do justice to the songs that they are singing.

Which raises the question, does Arnel do the songs justice? The combination of not having English as his first language and Jon writing the lyrics for him makes it an uphill climb. He's great at covering the back catalogue but I don't hear him owning it.

danielb wrote:Which raises the question, does Arnel do the songs justice? The combination of not having English as his first language and Jon writing the lyrics for him makes it an uphill climb. He's great at covering the back catalogue but I don't hear him owning it.

I will say that he has been struggling a lot lately. But was he doing them justice for most of his time in Journey? Yes, absolutely he was!

danielb wrote:Which raises the question, does Arnel do the songs justice? The combination of not having English as his first language and Jon writing the lyrics for him makes it an uphill climb. He's great at covering the back catalogue but I don't hear him owning it.

Arnel did the songs justice for a long time

danielb wrote:Which raises the question, does Arnel do the songs justice? The combination of not having English as his first language and Jon writing the lyrics for him makes it an uphill climb. He's great at covering the back catalogue but I don't hear him owning it.

Starting out, he hit the notes and threw his heart into the soaring ballads, but I share some of the same reservations you mentioned. Always have.

Granted, the songs on Freedom are not strong enough musically, but the combination of Arnel not being a native English speaker and Jon’s lyrics being so full of cliches, sends the music straight into Muzak land. In through one ear and out through the other. In that sense, Journey has really suffered from the lead singer change and Neal’s and Jon’s fractured relationship. They should have stuck with JSS and assisted him vocally (Deen and Jason).

I love JSS, but I think he would’ve cooked his voice a lot sooner than Arnel. I’m happy JSS didn’t get the job just because he’s released a lot of excellent music since moving on.

Opinions far more informed than mine here on this forum would know better, but I believe Cain was the voice in the room who objected to JSS in '07 with management (Azoff/Baruck) in those days siding with him. With Cain leaving, this could very well be the Journey of the future. Neal could do a lot worse.

If JSS stayed in Journey....what would the rerecords have sounded like?

Back then they went from Augeri to JSS to Arnel, in what? Less than a year? Pretty quickly anyway. I have said this before here: What if Wal-Mart did not like a JSS fronted Journey and they wanted someone who sounded more like Steve Perry? Dean told me that JSS recorded a demo of some rerecordings of the GH. So, he thought it was very possible that Wal-Mart did not like what they heard and forced the change or they would not contract the album.

After TBF, Neal consistently talked about moving away from the Perry era sound and wanted a "rockier" version of Journey...that is why he originally liked Augeri. That framing makes JSS a perfect fit. But, as soon as they hired Arnel, it changed to being all about the "legacy sound". IMO, Neal must have hated doing a "legacy sound" album and the rerecords of the hits...but a big payday from a contract with Wal-Mart changed his mind. It would not surprise me at all if Wal-Mart or maybe management ended JSS as lead singer because he did not sound enough like Steve Perry...and they needed somebody to cover the GH for the rerecords and JSS did fit.

Monker wrote:If JSS stayed in Journey....what would the rerecords have sounded like?

Back then they went from Augeri to JSS to Arnel, in what? Less than a year? Pretty quickly anyway. I have said this before here: What if Wal-Mart did not like a JSS fronted Journey and they wanted someone who sounded more like Steve Perry? Dean told me that JSS recorded a demo of some rerecordings of the GH. So, he thought it was very possible that Wal-Mart did not like what they heard and forced the change or they would not contract the album.

After TBF, Neal consistently talked about moving away from the Perry era sound and wanted a "rockier" version of Journey...that is why he originally liked Augeri. That framing makes JSS a perfect fit. But, as soon as they hired Arnel, it changed to being all about the "legacy sound". IMO, Neal must have hated doing a "legacy sound" album and the rerecords of the hits...but a big payday from a contract with Wal-Mart changed his mind. It would not surprise me at all if Wal-Mart or maybe management ended JSS as lead singer because he did not sound enough like Steve Perry...and they needed somebody to cover the GH for the rerecords and JSS did fit.

My only issue with that theory is that JSS (like Augeri before him) was showered with Perry comparisons. I believe his first review in the Washington Post claimed "Soto's Steve Perry tenor was dead-on." In some respects, JSS made a much more conscious effort to use Perryisms or Cookeisms (or whatever) than Arnel ever did. Arnel, unlike JSS, was a natural high tenor tho.

As for what the re-records would have sounded like...well, there's plenty of JSS Journey concert footage out there. We've also heard him cover Perry songs like "What Was" and the Journey demo "Winds of Freedom." I guess we'll just never know. One thing is for certain - the songwriting would have been better on the new songs on Revelation.

Monker wrote:If JSS stayed in Journey....what would the rerecords have sounded like?

I always felt Coming Home from Soul SirkUS would be a good indicator.

Monker wrote:Back then they went from Augeri to JSS to Arnel, in what? Less than a year? Pretty quickly anyway.

JSS had 11 months so, yeah, still pretty quick [/quote]

Monker wrote: I have said this before here: What if Wal-Mart did not like a JSS fronted Journey and they wanted someone who sounded more like Steve Perry? Dean told me that JSS recorded a demo of some rerecordings of the GH. So, he thought it was very possible that Wal-Mart did not like what they heard and forced the change or they would not contract the album.

This surprises me. I would’ve thought it was an Irving (?) deal and that Walmart wouldn’t have much to say about it.

Monker wrote:After TBF, Neal consistently talked about moving away from the Perry era sound and wanted a "rockier" version of Journey...that is why he originally liked Augeri. That framing makes JSS a perfect fit.

When they started “training” Augeri to sing better/healthier it seemed to cost them that rock edge and he started trying to sing more like Perry.

Monker wrote:But, as soon as they hired Arnel, it changed to being all about the "legacy sound". IMO, Neal must have hated doing a "legacy sound" album and the rerecords of the hits...but a big payday from a contract with Wal-Mart changed his mind. It would not surprise me at all if Wal-Mart or maybe management ended JSS as lead singer because he did not sound enough like Steve Perry...and they needed somebody to cover the GH for the rerecords and JSS did fit.

I know JC started talking Legacy sound, especially after Eclipse but I did always think JC is the one who wanted JSS out but I have heard people say it was actually Neal so….

It seems to have worked out well for them but it feels like JSS was another missed opportunity for them.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Monker wrote:But, as soon as they hired Arnel, it changed to being all about the "legacy sound". IMO, Neal must have hated doing a "legacy sound" album and the rerecords of the hits...but a big payday from a contract with Wal-Mart changed his mind. It would not surprise me at all if Wal-Mart or maybe management ended JSS as lead singer because he did not sound enough like Steve Perry...and they needed somebody to cover the GH for the rerecords and JSS did fit.

I know JC started talking Legacy sound, especially after Eclipse but I did always think JC is the one who wanted JSS out but I have heard people say it was actually Neal so….

The term "heritage sound" was used as early as the initial Arnel press release ("with Arnel’s soaring tenor, Journey returns to our heritage sound”) and attributed to Cain. As for why they decided to make the change they did....we will never know. Jeremey got the job before Arnel. Maybe he can shed some light if he reads this.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
The term "heritage sound" was used as early as the initial Arnel press release ("with Arnel’s soaring tenor, Journey returns to our heritage sound”) and attributed to Cain. As for why they decided to make the change they did....we will never know. Jeremey got the job before Arnel. Maybe he can shed some light if he reads this.

Well that would be Jeff’s story to tell. The limited insight I had was that it was mostly musical reasons on Cain’s side (he complained of the timbre of Jeff’s voice affecting his tinnitus for one), and ego reasons on Schon’s side - both influenced by the women in their lives at the time.

Jeremey wrote:Well that would be Jeff’s story to tell. The limited insight I had was that it was mostly musical reasons on Cain’s side (he complained of the timbre of Jeff’s voice affecting his tinnitus for one), and ego reasons on Schon’s side - both influenced by the women in their lives at the time.

Thanks Jeremey. Always good to hear from you and appreciate your insights. Was the Walmart deal every discussed with you? Hope all is well and hope to see more YT stuff. Very cool.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Thanks Jeremey. Always good to hear from you and appreciate your insights. Was the Walmart deal every discussed with you? Hope all is well and hope to see more YT stuff. Very cool.

Thanks man! Yes on the Walmart deal, as far as doing an album of new material and an album of re-records. It wasn’t determined that it would be straight-up note for note covers, at the time I thought it would be cool to do some rearrangements or unplugged versions but I guess they wanted the straight up re-records for whatever reason - it wasn’t to own the masters or anything so I’m not sure what the idea was other than $$$. There was no mention of “we needed to find a soundalike for Walmart” if that’s what you’re asking.

I also have no idea how the idea evolved once Arnel was confirmed as singer for the band. It made sense for Arnel to do the straight up covers as part of the band’s outreach to Arnel’s Filipino audience.

Had to take a break from YT the past few months with a heavy workload and other commitments but I’m woodshedding my voice again and been trying to work up “Could Have Been You” this week. It’s rough because I do all my YT stuff live and in one take and with my condition it takes a lot of pressure and effort to push enough air to support the integrity of my vocal cord… so while I can hit the high notes at the end, I just can’t do it at the end of singing 3 minutes of Raised on Radio-era Steve Perry

Still working it out though…