President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[RedWingFan]

You (7 wishes) are EVERY bit as bad as FF or RWF or Dave at not addressing questions put to you.

And only 1 out of the 4 of us voted for Obama, and it wasn't me, FF, or Dave.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

You are EVERY bit as bad as FF or RWF or Dave at not addressing questions put to you.

Hey now...We're on the same side on this one...Ease up!

I think for laughs we should all switch sides for one week only. Starting now.

Seven Wishes you be a Michelle Bachmann supporter (and you have to have an avatar with Sean hannity on it)

Fact Finder, cut and paste funny pictures that depict Rick Perry Ronald Reagan and the Tea Party as Satan' s servants on earth.

And Ross Valory Rocks you can support Cindy Sheehan For president in 2012. (and rag on the US military)

Dave, you are our resident Christmas hating atheist (who loves abortion) and tree hugging evironmentalist.

I will passionately argue that all libertarians ought to be rounded up, branded on the cheek with a hammer an sickle and forced to confess allegiance to Marx and Keynes before being burned at the stake

what do you all think ?

[RossValoryRocks]

You are EVERY bit as bad as FF or RWF or Dave at not addressing questions put to you.

Hey now...We're on the same side on this one...Ease up!

I think for laughs we should all switch sides for one week only. Starting now.

Seven Wishes you be a Michelle Bachmann supporter (and you have to have an avatar with Sean hannity on it)

Fact Finder, cut and paste funny pictures that depict Rick Perry Ronald Reagan and the Tea Party as Satan' s servants on earth.

And Ross Valory Rocks you can support Cindy Sheehan For president in 2012. (and rag on the US military)

Dave, you are our resident Christmas hating atheist (who loves abortion) and tree hugging evironmentalist.

I will passionately argue that all libertarians ought to be rounded up, branded on the cheek with a hammer an sickle and forced to confess allegiance to Keynes before being burned at the stake

what do you all think ? [/list]

I like it!!!!

Down with the War Mongers!!! Incarcerate Bush and Cheney!

[RossValoryRocks]

You guys do know that we didn't kill Bin Laden...it's all a hoax...and if you believe the news you're stupid...American are nothing but brainwashed members of a lying, murderous Empire. You should all be sick of our country. Fools.

[Memorex]

Hmmmm. Don't think this works for me. I still blame both sides.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Hmmmm. Don't think this works for me. I still blame both sides.

thats ok you can be the resident fence sitter. And if sitting on the fence makes your ass feel funny and you worry that you are turning gay, I'm sure Seven Wishes's favorite princess- Michelle Bachmann- can hook up up with her husband who can help you pray that gay away.
At the same time they can fill your mind full of Tea Bagger, capitalist bullshit. Like the nonsense that tax rates for millionaires ought to be below 99%.

I mean who's picture is on the five dollar bill - Lincoln, On the One dollar - Washington . On the 50 dollar bill - well, I dont know Im a socialist I never stole that fuckin much...yet . My point is some one from the government is on the dollar bill, its the governments money . totally.

[RossValoryRocks]

Is anyone here smart enough to explain deferred corporate taxes? I'm still stuck on 7's Reuters claim that Boeing only paid 13Mil in Fed Business Tax.....from the 2010 Boeing Annual Report (pg 69), it does show 13 Mil in taxes paid, but it also shows $969 Mil in deferred Fed tax.with some mumbo jumbo about paying thru 2050 or some shit....can anyone explain? I would think that the sale of just one 747 might generate 13 mil in taxes...


http://www.envisionreports.com/ba/2011/ ... ECURED.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_tax

Obviously a ploy by the elitest warmongers to pay off their buddys in big business.

[Memorex]

Opposites aside, I absolutely hate this story:

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/09/02/white-house-hints-more-economic-speeches-proposals-ahead

We have so many people that just want a job and this is the story?

[donnaplease]

I think for laughs we should all switch sides for one week only. Starting now.

Seven Wishes you be a Michelle Bachmann supporter (and you have to have an avatar with Sean hannity on it)

Fact Finder, cut and paste funny pictures that depict Rick Perry Ronald Reagan and the Tea Party as Satan' s servants on earth.

And Ross Valory Rocks you can support Cindy Sheehan For president in 2012. (and rag on the US military)

Dave, you are our resident Christmas hating atheist (who loves abortion) and tree hugging evironmentalist.

I will passionately argue that all libertarians ought to be rounded up, branded on the cheek with a hammer an sickle and forced to confess allegiance to Marx and Keynes before being burned at the stake

what do you all think ?

Can I play???

"For the first time in my adult life, I'm proud of my country"

[Seven Wishes2]

OK, I'm in.

Bachmann can start off by sitting on my face for four hours. Then, we'll talk.

[RossValoryRocks]

OK, I'm in.

Bachmann can start off by sitting on my face for four hours. Then, we'll talk.

YUCK...another military loving conservative bitch who has been brainwashed and just wants to send our children to war...you can do better...I hear Janet Reno is available...a nice single liberal woman is what you need!

[conversationpc]

Christmas blows.

[slucero]

Who's Nailin' Palin?

[Seven Wishes2]

I'd guess her weight anytime.

[Rick]

Happy Labor Day from Organized Labor to you, with love.


Hoffa: 'President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of bitches out '...

Will Obama condemn?


LABOR LEADER CALLS FOR WAR ON REPUBLICANS


Biden at AFL-CIO Rally: 'You Are Only Folks Keeping Barbarians From Gates'...




As they say..."you know you're over the target when you start taking flak"....

Not sure what all of that means, but I am a union man and am proud of it.

Unions have been demonized by Corporate America for a long time. It behooves them for people to think ill of Labor Unions, and they have succeeded with most.

I read such ugly talk on here about what labor unions are and what they represent. The media shows pictures of pot bellied rednecks as the average union man, with unjustifiable demands about pay and benefits. And everyone believes all of that. So, Corporate America pushes the message and everyone buys it. I would entertain any one of you to walk a mile in my shoes and see what the life of a union man is really like. It's nothing like what you read in the papers or watch on tv.

We work as unionized people because it betters the lives of the working man and everyone else, unionized or otherwise that holds a job.

With that statement said, you hear Corporate America crying that our pay and benefits are just wrecking their companies. Give me a fucking break. These same assholes preaching that rhetoric are the same said that have had raises 100 times that of the average working man over the last 20 years. They cry about our defined retirement plans, costing them millions, when everyone of them have a golden parachute retirement. Those also costing millions, but just for the few.

Whether or not you work in a union shop, you should remember this.

Unions established the 40 hour work week, vacations, sick time, health care, and many other benefits that non-union people enjoy.

They also abolished child labor.

If you want America to be like China, then keep on bashing unions. We're absolutely not the bad guy, as you're taught to believe.

[slucero]

With artificial stimuli largely (and finally) finally absent in the markets... the markets are starting to self-correct, and reflect the ONE real, fundamental issue with most all Western economies worldwide that has largely remained unchanged...


1. Nearly every country is over-leveraged at the federal and/or the individual citizen level.


Absent artificial stimuli, the de-leveraging process will re-engage and the consequences of such will re-occur.

[conversationpc]

Not sure what all of that means, but I am a union man and am proud of it.

Unions have been demonized by Corporate America for a long time. It behooves them for people to think ill of Labor Unions, and they have succeeded with most.

I read such ugly talk on here about what labor unions are and what they represent. The media shows pictures of pot bellied rednecks as the average union man, with unjustifiable demands about pay and benefits. And everyone believes all of that. So, Corporate America pushes the message and everyone buys it. I would entertain any one of you to walk a mile in my shoes and see what the life of a union man is really like. It's nothing like what you read in the papers or watch on tv.

We work as unionized people because it betters the lives of the working man and everyone else, unionized or otherwise that holds a job.

With that statement said, you hear Corporate America crying that our pay and benefits are just wrecking their companies. Give me a fucking break. These same assholes preaching that rhetoric are the same said that have had raises 100 times that of the average working man over the last 20 years. They cry about our defined retirement plans, costing them millions, when everyone of them have a golden parachute retirement. Those also costing millions, but just for the few.

Whether or not you work in a union shop, you should remember this.

Unions established the 40 hour work week, vacations, sick time, health care, and many other benefits that non-union people enjoy.

They also abolished child labor.

If you want America to be like China, then keep on bashing unions. We're absolutely not the bad guy, as you're taught to believe.

I don't know what media you're watching but most of the coverage of unions I've seen in recent years has been favorable to unions. Just take a look at the coverage of the union stuff that went on in Wisconsin and Indiana this year, which was heavily favored towards unions. Sorry but unions in this country are just as responsible for the downfall of businesses as some of the greedy owners. I've worked in union jobs before and I've seen firsthand the abuses that happen in union shops.

There are certainly places for unions, especially as it relates to companies sticking by contracts for employees and workplace safety rules. Unions are very good at those things. However, don't be fooled into thinking that the same type of politics and shenanigans that go on in upper management don't also go on in upper management of the unions. The guys that head up the unions are just as bad as the guys they are demonizing.

[Saint John]

Unions were great through the first half of the 20th century. They did everything that Rick suggested they did. But, like any other entity that grows, they began to form political alliances, pay fat cat type salaries and have been infested with greed and corruption. Between all of this, the worker has gotten lost. They no longer care about the worker and haven't for a long time. They only care about dues, and fight tooth and nail to assure their workers don't lose their jobs, offense be damned. They claim to fight for "the working man" but they're deathly afraid of competition, and fight to eliminate it. In many instances they're nothing more than a street gang that use scare tactics like intimidation, physical assaults and all kinds of other mob-type behavior. They've ruined many industries (auto and steel come to mind) and destroyed the public education in this country. They've slithered their way into sports and have turned athletes that used to just be paid well and looked up to, into overpaid thugs that usually make the news for their latest arrest or instance of paternity suit. They embody the first tier of failure within this country and what used to be the backbone of this country ... still is. except now it's decrepit, failing and unwilling to compromise. And that's why it needs to be killed off.

[Memorex]

The number one issue I see with unions is they take away the ability for businesses to adjust as needed when times are tough. Some non-union jobs may pay more salary at times, but the long-term cost of that employee is likely lower. For example, my employer contributes nothing - not a single penny - to my retirement and nothing is guaranteed. When it's time for a raise or a bonus, the employer simply has to look at me for who I am and what my value is. If they want me to stay, they pay me the best they can. If they want me to leave, they'll ask me to leave. It's how a business should be run.

Unions brought good things, but so has regulation (the right kind) and general state and federal laws.

So you look at a situation where school budgets are out of control and you see where the long term harm caused by some union issues come into play. Fully 50% of the LAUSD budget is for retired teacher benefits. That is staggering. I'm sorry - but no worker in this country, I don't care how noble a profession, has the right to put that kind of strain on any one industry. Auto industry the same. Especially when retirement comes so early and many of those workers are earning a second pension at a new government job.

I heard there is an effort underway in California that would give babysitters a 15 minute break after 2 hours. Now, call me crazy but I think that's about the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. Honey, let's catch dinner and a movie - but we need to be close to the house so we can give our sitter her 15 minutes in between. Our 15 year old sitter just doesn't have the stamina to sit on the couch and keep her eyes on the kids longer than 2 hours at a time without a break.

[RedWingFan]

With that statement said, you hear Corporate America crying that our pay and benefits are just wrecking their companies. Give me a fucking break.

It's exactly what wrecked GM. My dad worked as a UAW member for over 40 years. Well when he worked. Growing up, I remember him going into work for 2 hours then coming home and then having to go "check in" at the end of his shift. In the case of GM, they weren't paying my dad's extorted salary and extorted benefits. The customers who bought the cars paid them, built into every fender, steering wheel, down to the last bolt and nut.

I say "extorted salary and benefits" because that's exactly what they are. The UAW would threaten to strike and bring immediate harm to GM and their shareholders. GM had a choice between that and long term harm by agreeing with the UAW's demands and going bankrupt decades later. Which it did. GM couldn't raise the vehicle prices enough to pay for retiree's and their families healthcare til the day they all die off. People who make enough money to pay that much for a vehicle certainly aren't going to buy a GM car.

Give me a fucking break. These same assholes preaching that rhetoric are the same said that have had raises 100 times that of the average working man over the last 20 years. They cry about our defined retirement plans, costing them millions, when everyone of them have a golden parachute retirement.

The big difference is that companies usually give those raises on planned or projected work performance, and weren't taken by way of threat. Big difference.

Those also costing millions, but just for the few.

That's part of the benefit of working based on your merit, hard work, and individualism. Being part of a union, you could be the best worker of the bunch, but still paid like the laziest among you. You're chained together there for better or worse. Works out pretty nice for the lazy guy because the chain is keeping him off the streets. I hope he appreciates you.

[Saint John]

Being part of a union, you could be the best worker of the bunch, but still paid like the laziest among you.

And this is basically a deterrent to do extraordinary work. There's almost no incentive at all. You have a tiered culture of equality, with each person making sure he's not doing any more work than the next guy. And that's a system that will always fail. And it has. And it's also why they're deathly afraid of non-union outfits. Those guys are actually held accountable for the way they work.

[Seven Wishes2]

What you need to realize is these poll numbers reflect the fact that he's been wishy-washy; too willing to stand up for principles (i.e. the healthcare individual mandate) that warranted compromise...and for his base, too willing to throw in the towel when he needed to show some backbone. Almost every Democrat I know believes he has betrayed his party's base by acquiescing to one thing after another.

At this point, I would welcome a change if it came in the form of Ron Paul, Jim Huntsman, or even Mitchell Romney (not that I would necessarily vote for any of them). The GOP need only worry about ensuring a fringe candidate (on the verge of lunacy or ultra-fundamentalism) like Bachmann or Perry not win the primaries. The latter two are, ultimately, unelectible in a general election, say what you will about current poll numbers. Don't forget Howard Dean once led Bush (for months) in a hypothetical poll when he was leading Kerry in the primaries; and he would no sooner have won the general as Billy Carter.

[slucero]

WOW... Swiss just committed sovereign-cide... pegging the Swiss franc to the Euro.. effectively abandoning Swiss economic sovereignty and putting its future in the hands of the Euro-crats.

[Seven Wishes2]

What conservatives want, and what is best for this country, are two completely different things.

No-one with a far-right agenda like Perry or Bachmann is going to gain ANY traction trying to govern from that extreme. By a vast majority, Americans want a President who will work with both parties and the House and Senate, and not someone who is going to cling to an extreme ideaology. It's just not reality.

Turns out the CBO now estimates the war in Iraq has now cost $1.6 trillion, and will cost another $4 trillion (due to diminished productivity and healthcare for wounded veterans) over the next 30 years. Looks like the true cost of the war will actually be over $5 trillion. I guess we need to look before we start a wasted, unnecessary, and completely unwarranted war in the future, eh? Or at least team with NATO and carry out precision attacks with a coalition when we're trying to usurp a megalomaniac madman dictator who's murdered thousands of his own people, eh? Considering the American casualty rate in Libya stands at zero right now, and that a democratic movement is afoot there, it sure looks like that will be the way this gets handled in the future.

[Seven Wishes2]

Obama's numbers have plummeted to 37%, but that's still 3 times better than the Republican Congress' rating of THIRTEEN PER CENT.

The House is the GOP's mess, and the disdain the public has for it is reflective of the fact that America does NOT want the nu-"conservative" approach (which would make your mythical spendthrift hero Reagan roll over in his grave) zealots like Ryan, Cantor, and Bachmann are putting forth.

[Memorex]

What conservatives want, and what is best for this country, are two completely different things.

No-one with a far-right agenda like Perry or Bachmann is going to gain ANY traction trying to govern from that extreme. By a vast majority, Americans want a President who will work with both parties and the House and Senate, and not someone who is going to cling to an extreme ideaology. It's just not reality.

Turns out the CBO now estimates the war in Iraq has now cost $1.6 trillion, and will cost another $4 trillion (due to diminished productivity and healthcare for wounded veterans) over the next 30 years. Looks like the true cost of the war will actually be over $5 trillion. I guess we need to look before we start a wasted, unnecessary, and completely unwarranted war in the future, eh? Or at least team with NATO and carry out precision attacks with a coalition when we're trying to usurp a megalomaniac madman dictator who's murdered thousands of his own people, eh? Considering the American casualty rate in Libya stands at zero right now, and that a democratic movement is afoot there, it sure looks like that will be the way this gets handled in the future.

Libya is neither Iraq nor Afghanistan. Totally different beasts. bad comparison.

I do however think it's a question of precision strikes VS nation building. Kill whatever is in site and leave it be, or rebuild. In Iraq, I think there is a very strong case for rebuilding. In Afghanistan, I'd leave it to the drones. Over and over and over.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Seven, neither Paul, Huntsman nor Romney are what this Country needs, nor what true Conservatives want. Paul is a nutbag, Huntsman was Obamas China Ambassador and NO ONE KNOWS who he is as reflected by his 1 or 2% in the polls. Romney is a known quantity and real Conservatives will never trust him due to RomneyCare in Mass. True conservative ideas win elections in this Country as evidenced last November. We need a Perry or Palin to go Reagan to really fix this mess. Obama WILL NOT BE RE-ELECTED PERIOD. Romney has a shot, but last I looked Perry was cleaning his clock after only a few weeks in the race. Would I vote for a Romney or Huntsman over O...hell yes, but I wouldn't like it anymore than my vote for McClame, but this Country CANNOT STAND 4 more years of this idiot idealogue in the WH.

I agree with you about Romney. Not interested in someone who supported Government run health care and big govt when running Massachusetts. And I can understand your problem with Huntsman, being O's ambassador to China might leave a bad taste in your mouth - but he had a really "conservative" record as UTAH governor - flat taxes , pro life. You may want to give him a fair look, although he's done anyway.

Ron Paul is not a nut -(some of his supporters darn sure are- but that doesn't mean he is) . He is the only one in the race who has been the only consistent supporter of the principles of liberty - in opposing big oppressive expansionist federal government. You might not like his foreign policy, but he is simply pointing out that if you have a huge military industrial complex and fighting foreign wars requires a big government that forcibly taxes its citizens, regulates the activities of the companies that supply it. War is not the friend and guarantor of liberty- war is the health of the state. And I guarantee some of you conservatives will be understanding this in a few years time- just like a few years ago many conservative were rejecting his ideas on holding the Fed accountable, and now its much more mainstream.

If you are going to support Perry, you better be prepared to hold his feet to the fire. Like too many other Republicans he was for a individual health care mandate before he was against it. As Texas governor he signed a bill forcing teenage girls to get innoculated against cervical cancer. On the economic front he engaged in more than a little bit of smoothing the way for businesses that were close to him or his donors. (that's not free enterprise or market capitalism) And as someone who wants to make government irrelevant in everyone's life, he sure spent alot of time working for the state governing people, taking money off the state (You either believe in the state or you don't -and if you don't you dont spend your life working for it). I'll vote for him over O, but it just doesn't seem like he is an consistent advocate for liberty for me - and its liberty what made the USA great.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Ron Paul is not a nut -(some of his supporters darn sure are- but that doesn't mean he is) . He is the only one in the race who has been the only consistent supporter of the principles of liberty - in opposing big oppressive expansionist federal government.

Agreed. He is not my kind of candidate, but Paul has never wavered or changed his views according to the winds of popular opinion. For that alone, he commands my respect and maybe even gets a mercy vote - should he last the primaries.

[The_Noble_Cause]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/business/in-internet-age-postal-service-struggles-to-stay-solvent-and-relevant.html

Postal Service Is Nearing Default as Losses Mount

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE

Published: September 4, 2011

The United States Postal Service has long lived on the financial edge, but it has never been as close to the precipice as it is today: the agency is so low on cash that it will not be able to make a $5.5 billion payment due this month and may have to shut down entirely this winter unless Congress takes emergency action to stabilize its finances.

Our situation is extremely serious,” the postmaster general, Patrick R. Donahoe, said in an interview. “If Congress doesn’t act, we will default.”

In recent weeks, Mr. Donahoe has been pushing a series of painful cost-cutting measures to erase the agency’s deficit, which will reach $9.2 billion this fiscal year. They include eliminating Saturday mail delivery, closing up to 3,700 postal locations and laying off 120,000 workers — nearly one-fifth of the agency’s work force — despite a no-layoffs clause in the unions’ contracts.

The post office’s problems stem from one hard reality: it is being squeezed on both revenue and costs.

As any computer user knows, the Internet revolution has led to people and businesses sending far less conventional mail.

At the same time, decades of contractual promises made to unionized workers, including no-layoff clauses, are increasing the post office’s costs. Labor represents 80 percent of the agency’s expenses, compared with 53 percent at United Parcel Service and 32 percent at FedEx, its two biggest private competitors. Postal workers also receive more generous health benefits than most other federal employees.

The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee will hold a hearing on the agency’s predicament on Tuesday. So far, feuding Democrats and Republicans in Congress, still smarting from the brawl over the federal debt ceiling, have failed to agree on any solutions. It doesn’t help that many of the options for saving the postal service are politically unpalatable.

“The situation is dire,” said Thomas R. Carper, the Delaware Democrat who is chairman of the Senate subcommittee that oversees the postal service. “If we do nothing, if we don’t react in a smart, appropriate way, the postal service could literally close later this year. That’s not the kind of development we need to inject into a weak, uneven economic recovery.”

Missing the $5.5 billion payment due on Sept. 30, intended to finance retirees’ future health care, won’t cause immediate disaster. But sometime early next year, the agency will run out of money to pay its employees and gas up its trucks, officials warn, forcing it to stop delivering the roughly three billion pieces of mail it handles weekly.

The causes of the crisis are well known and immensely difficult to overcome.

Mail volume has plummeted with the rise of e-mail, electronic bill-paying and a Web that makes everything from fashion catalogs to news instantly available. The system will handle an estimated 167 billion pieces of mail this fiscal year, down 22 percent from five years ago.

It’s difficult to imagine that trend reversing, and pessimistic projections suggest that volume could plunge to 118 billion pieces by 2020. The law also prevents the post office from raising postage fees faster than inflation.

Meanwhile, the agency has had a tough time cutting its costs to match the revenue drop, with a history of labor contracts offering good health and pension benefits, underused post offices, and laws that restrict its ability to make basic business decisions, like reducing the frequency of deliveries.

Congress is considering numerous emergency proposals — most notably, allowing the post office to recover billions of dollars that management says it overpaid to its employees’ pension funds. That fix would help the agency get through the short-term crisis, but would delay the day of reckoning on bigger issues.

Postal service officials say one reason for their high costs is that they are legally required to provide universal service, making deliveries to 150 million addresses nationwide each week. They add that a major factor for the post office’s $20 billion in losses over the past four years is a 2006 law requiring the postal service to pay an average of $5.5 billion annually for 10 years to finance retiree health costs for the next 75 years.

But the agency’s leaders acknowledge that they must find a way to increase revenue, something that will prove far harder than simply slicing costs.

I thought the postal service was quasi-privatized a few years back and recieves no taxpayer money.

[conversationpc]

Obama's numbers have plummeted to 37%, but that's still 3 times better than the Republican Congress' rating of THIRTEEN PER CENT.

The House is the GOP's mess, and the disdain the public has for it is reflective of the fact that America does NOT want the nu-"conservative" approach (which would make your mythical spendthrift hero Reagan roll over in his grave) zealots like Ryan, Cantor, and Bachmann are putting forth.

REPUBLICAN Congress? The last I knew, it was a split Congress and Democratic-controlled for most of the last four years.