DC Extended Universe THREAD

[The_Noble_Cause]

You don't save face by putting a failed franchise and turning it into the first meeting between Batman and Superman ever. That never happens if they thought MoS was a failure. They wanted their shared DC universe, man lol.

That's exactly what happened. And there was nothing in MOS that hinted at a shared universe. The Wayne Enterprises satellite is a blink and miss it moment.

Here's Snyder talking about the Wayne Enterprises eater egg: "And whether or not it’s the Wayne Enterprises of Chris Nolan’s movies or whether it’s the Wayne Enterprises of DC in general, that’s yet to be seen."

Does that sound like a guy with a grand master plan?

No so what. A movie a studio wanted to make for decades doesn't get a green light unless they feel positive about something that came before. They were confident enough in MoS's foundation to make a movie that was in developmental hell forever.

MOS was intended to launch a MOS franchise. When MOS failed to resonate, they threw in Batman. Everybody knows it. You know it too.

Like what?

You just finished saying that BvsS was in the works for years. You're not familiar with the Andrew Kevin Walker treatment? It's better than the shit we got.

BvS opened to $166 mil opening weekend. That's a huge opening. Again..people flocked to the theater OW.

Nobody denies that it opened big. But nobody liked it. And if they did, DC/WB wouldn't have had to enter defcon five panic crisis mode for JL.

Well, that's impossible since the film uh..never got made. Did you read the script? It's bonkers and there's stuff in there that would of made fans shit bricks.

I've never seen a bad George Miller movie. Even Happy Feet is above and beyond Snyder's usual output.

[verslibre]

I have to admit, I was psyched to see MOS. Then I saw it.

What was it about MoS you hated upon initial viewing?

I grew up with the Reeve movies. I read Marvel and DC. I'm not a "movies only" guy when it comes to CBMs. MoS dispelled the tepid shadow cast by Superman Returns. MoS was exactly the kind of Superman movie we needed, and it came at the right time (after the conclusion of Nolan's Batman trilogy).

[verslibre]

You don't save face by putting a failed franchise and turning it into the first meeting between Batman and Superman ever. That never happens if they thought MoS was a failure. They wanted their shared DC universe, man lol.

That's exactly what happened. And there was nothing in MOS that hinted at a shared universe. The Wayne Enterprises satellite is a blink and miss it moment.

Here's Snyder talking about the Wayne Enterprises eater egg: "And whether or not it’s the Wayne Enterprises of Chris Nolan’s movies or whether it’s the Wayne Enterprises of DC in general, that’s yet to be seen."

Does that sound like a guy with a grand master plan?

It's call ambiguity. At that precise moment was there no point for him to stare right into the camera eye and shout "A-HA! Wait till ALL THE OTHER HEROES show up!"

That would've been silly. Iron Man similarly works as a standalone. The only word — "Avenger" — that hints at more to come is uttered by Nick Fury in a post-credits scene. Post-credits scene are meant to tease. They're not part of the film's main narrative.

Snyder and Johns had a flow chart the entire length of the wall in Snyder's office (dubbed the "Snydercave"). They had all kinds of stuff worked out. As demonstrated, anybody can be kicked off a project. Even Whedon admits Batgirl being taken from him, in not so many words, mere weeks after Geoff Johns said Whedon was writing it!

No so what. A movie a studio wanted to make for decades doesn't get a green light unless they feel positive about something that came before. They were confident enough in MoS's foundation to make a movie that was in developmental hell forever.

MOS was intended to launch a MOS franchise. When MOS failed to resonate, they threw in Batman. Everybody knows it. You know it too.

I guess that's why they threw Hulk into Ragnarok, too. They needed to spice up the brew after treating Thor like a joke in the previous movie.

Like what?

You just finished saying that BvsS was in the works for years. You're not familiar with the Andrew Kevin Walker treatment? It's better than the shit we got.

You can say things like that, and that's fine. But it's undeniable that elements of Man of Steel carried over from earlier unproduced treatments. Wes Strick rewrote Kevin Smith's Superman Lives script that Smith had already been forced to write along guidelines set down for some really corny shit, like Brainiac fighting a polar bear. But Strick also characterized Supes as a guy who felt like an outsider, not a guy ready to emerge from the janitor's closet every time a kid screamed for his cat being stuck in a tree.

We needed a Superman movie that didn't ape the Donner legacy. They tried that with Superduperman Returns and it wasn't a runaway hit. It didn't help that it had a pretty stupid premise: Superman going on vacation. But Snyder continues to get raked over coals because he had Superman snap Zod's neck, though the movie features a (far) better Superman, a better Lois Lane, the best Jor-el, and a Zod who crushes every campy atom in his filmic predecessor's incarnation.

Let it be said: producing a sequel to Superouth Returns would have put the franchise on ice for yet another decade. Minimum. The dirt was on Green Lantern before OW was done, and they had even already ordered a sequel for it.

Hell, WB greenlit Justice League: Mortal with a different actor for Superman because they wanted to distance themselves from Returns straight away. And Singer got stuck in a revolving door, anyway.

As for a "Batman v Superman" movie being in the works for years, Trav's not wrong. Akiva Goldsman wrote a script over a decade earlier that they seriously considered producing. It was a film to feature a BvS situation spurred by Bruce Wayne's wife's death at the hands of the Joker. It also featured a "divorced, down on his luck" Superman. Plus, Bruce dons the cowl after five years of retirement. (Where else have we seen something like that?)

Btw, ^ that's also the reason we saw a Batman/Superman combo emblem in I Am Legend (2006).

BvS opened to $166 mil opening weekend. That's a huge opening. Again..people flocked to the theater OW.

Nobody denies that it opened big. But nobody liked it. And if they did, DC/WB wouldn't have had to enter defcon five panic crisis mode for JL.

"But nobody liked it." We all know that's not true. "Only Sith deal in absolutes."

Well, that's impossible since the film uh..never got made. Did you read the script? It's bonkers and there's stuff in there that would of made fans shit bricks.

I've never seen a bad George Miller movie. Even Happy Feet is above and beyond Snyder's usual output.

People say things like that for one purpose, and one purpose only: to stir the pot.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's call ambiguity. At that precise moment was there no point for him to stare right into the camera eye and shout "A-HA! Wait till ALL THE OTHER HEROES show up!"

Because they had no idea.

That would've been silly. Iron Man similarly works as a standalone. The only word — "Avenger" — that hints at more to come is uttered by Nick Fury in a post-credits scene. Post-credits scene are meant to tease. They're not part of the film's main narrative.

Iron Man 2 was a little clunky with the world building. But not to the degree that BvsS was.
Affleck clicking on that desktop folder with icons of the Justice League is an example of HOW NOT TO do exposition. Utter shit.

Snyder and Johns had a flow chart the entire length of the wall in Snyder's office (dubbed the "Snydercave"). They had all kinds of stuff worked out. As demonstrated, anybody can be kicked off a project. Even Whedon admits Batgirl being taken from him, in not so many words, mere weeks after Geoff Johns said Whedon was writing it!

Yea, sure.

I guess that's why they threw Hulk into Ragnarok, too. They needed to spice up the brew after treating Thor like a joke in the previous movie.

Dark World wasn't particularly well-received so it's possible.
But Ragnarok is the 17th Marvel movie.
That's a franchise that took their time to develop and build the shared universe.
The other (BvsS) tried to score too fast on a second date.

Hell, WB greenlit Justice League: Mortal with a different actor for Superman because they wanted to distance themselves from Returns straight away. And Singer got stuck in a revolving door, anyway.

Bale wasn't Batman in it either.

As for a "Batman v Superman" movie being in the works for years, Trav's not wrong. Akiva Goldsman wrote a script over a decade earlier that they seriously considered producing. It was a film to feature a BvS situation spurred by Bruce Wayne's wife's death at the hands of the Joker. It also featured a "divorced, down on his luck" Superman. Plus, Bruce dons the cowl after five years of retirement. (Where else have we seen something like that?)

Btw, ^ that's also the reason we saw a Batman/Superman combo emblem in I Am Legend (2006).

Actually, Goldsman re-wrote the Andrew Walker script. Thanks for the history lesson. I don't need it.

"But nobody liked it." We all know that's not true. "Only Sith deal in absolutes."

People say things like that for one purpose, and one purpose only: to stir the pot.

Or they just think George Miller is ten times the director Zack Snyder is.

[verslibre]

It's call ambiguity. At that precise moment was there no point for him to stare right into the camera eye and shout "A-HA! Wait till ALL THE OTHER HEROES show up!"

Because they had no idea.

You're making an assumption.

That would've been silly. Iron Man similarly works as a standalone. The only word — "Avenger" — that hints at more to come is uttered by Nick Fury in a post-credits scene. Post-credits scene are meant to tease. They're not part of the film's main narrative.

Iron Man 2 was a little clunky with the world building. But not to the degree that BvsS was.
Affleck clicking on that desktop folder with icons of the Justice League is an example of HOW NOT TO do exposition. Utter shit.

You mean Gadot/Diana. And I honestly don't see what the bfd was with her opening the files and checking them out. I would've shot the Aquaman footage differently. The Cyborg footage was a file made by Dr. Silas Stone for his personal record. The Flash footage was from a security cam, just like the "lauded" oh-so-convenient Barnes footage in Civil War without which the entire fucking movie collapses inward like ball bearings landing on freshly baked bread.

The snapshot of Diana & crew, who appeared in Wonder Woman, and the vid of her in London were more than adequate, and we were already getting to know her. So? How is that so bad compared to how they "introduced" Hawkeye in Thor? You see an unnamed guy move toward a rifle, but stops and chooses a bow. Geeks know who he is. The GA has no clue, until Entertainment and all the Avengers promos fill in the deets. Okay. Fine. And our first sighting of Black Widow involves Tony telling Pepper "I want one." They could have done better than that. IM2 was admittedly rushed.

Snyder and Johns had a flow chart the entire length of the wall in Snyder's office (dubbed the "Snydercave"). They had all kinds of stuff worked out. As demonstrated, anybody can be kicked off a project. Even Whedon admits Batgirl being taken from him, in not so many words, mere weeks after Geoff Johns said Whedon was writing it!

Yea, sure.

Zack was interviewed by numerous rags like EW, Variety and THR. The Snydercave was a thing, and the Big Chart is a thing. That's where Joss saw the Batgirl option that he immediately jumped on.

I guess that's why they threw Hulk into Ragnarok, too. They needed to spice up the brew after treating Thor like a joke in the previous movie.

Dark World wasn't particularly well-received so it's possible.
But Ragnarok is the 17th Marvel movie.
That's a franchise that took their time to develop and build the shared universe.
The other (BvsS) tried to score too fast on a second date.

Fury and Widow joined the MCU in a full-time capacity in Iron Man 2. Second movie in. Al three gather for an impromptu meeting in a donut shop. But that's awesome, right? LOL.

Look, I grew up a fan of both companies. I don't get why DC continues to draw so much fire while Marvel gets everything they do waved on through, especially when so much of what the latter does spits on the source material, with the nastiest culprit now being Ragnarok. That movie wedges so many storylines into one space, it's disrespectful. But I guess it constitutes another hit for the MCU, and that's all that matters.

And you know why Ragnarok's the 17th movie? Because they pushed another Thor movie back in favor of some others. Then they finally decided what they were going to do: "Thor and Loki and Hulk inexplicably end up on the same planet while Hela wreaks havoc on a suspiciously sparsely-populated Asgard! Fuck it, let's throw in Surtur, too! And Valkyrie!"

Also noteworthy is that Ragnarok and Black Panther share essentially the same plotline: a secret relative with lethal powers/skills emerges from nowhere after an age of banishment by a paternal figure...and they've come to claim what they believe is rightfully theirs...and WOE TO ANYONE WHO OPPOSES THEM! Both protagonists face off against their relative twice (and lose the first time); the climactic battle is joined, predictably, by a contingent from a relatively faraway place: Sakaar/Gorilla City. The chief difference is one is an origin movie, and the other is not. IMO, the choice to feature Hulk was probably an ode to the 1988 movie The Incredible Hulk Returns (the first appearance of Thor in live action) rather than the Planet Hulk storyline, which is far weightier.

Hell, WB greenlit Justice League: Mortal with a different actor for Superman because they wanted to distance themselves from Returns straight away. And Singer got stuck in a revolving door, anyway.

Bale wasn't Batman in it either.

Nope, it was Armie. Bale couldn't have been in it, anyway. He was Nolan's guy, and Nolan was vocally against JL: Mortal.

As for a "Batman v Superman" movie being in the works for years, Trav's not wrong. Akiva Goldsman wrote a script over a decade earlier that they seriously considered producing. It was a film to feature a BvS situation spurred by Bruce Wayne's wife's death at the hands of the Joker. It also featured a "divorced, down on his luck" Superman. Plus, Bruce dons the cowl after five years of retirement. (Where else have we seen something like that?)

Btw, ^ that's also the reason we saw a Batman/Superman combo emblem in I Am Legend (2006).

Actually, Goldsman re-wrote the Andrew Walker script. Thanks for the history lesson. I don't need it.

What did Goldsman leave out and what did he add?

People say things like that for one purpose, and one purpose only: to stir the pot.

Or they just think George Miller is ten times the director Zack Snyder is.

No prob. I don't lose sleep over it. I'm a fan of both guys.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're making an assumption.

Actually, no. No, I'm not. Here's Snyder admitting that there was no master plan to bring these characters together.

Q: When you came aboard Man of Steel, were you thinking in the back of your mind, "I could be the guy who gets to reboot Batman on film too!"

Snyder: I gotta be honest, it definitely was a thing that… after Man of Steel finished and we started talking about what would be in the next movie, I started subtly mentioning that it would be cool if he faced Batman. In the first meeting, it was like, "Maybe Batman?" Maybe at the end of the second movie, some Kryptonite gets delivered to Bruce Wayne's house or something. Like in a cryptic way, that's the first time we see him. But then, once you say it out loud, right? You're in a story meeting talking about, like, who should [Superman] fight if he fought this giant alien threat Zod who was basically his equal physically, from his planet, fighting on our turf… You know, who to fight next? The problem is, once you say it out loud, then it's kind of hard to go back, right? Once you say, "What about Batman?" then you realize, "Okay, that's a cool idea. What else?" I mean, what do you say after that? …But I'm not gonna say at all that when I took the job to do Man of Steel that I did it in a subversive way to get to Batman. I really believe that only after contemplating who could face [Superman] did Batman come into the picture...

You mean Gadot/Diana. And I honestly don't see what the bfd was with her opening the files and checking them out. I would've shot the Aquaman footage differently. The Cyborg footage was a file made by Dr. Silas Stone for his personal record. The Flash footage was from a security cam, just like the "lauded" oh-so-convenient Barnes footage in Civil War without which the entire fucking movie collapses inward like ball bearings landing on freshly baked bread.

Sorry. It was laughable. Clicking on mpegs, complete with little branded logos for each characters, is quite possibly the laziest form of storytelling I've ever seen in a movie.

Fury and Widow joined the MCU in a full-time capacity in Iron Man 2. Second movie in. Al three gather for an impromptu meeting in a donut shop. But that's awesome, right? LOL.

No, I already said that Iron Man 2 was clunky with its world building.

Also noteworthy is that Ragnarok and Black Panther share essentially the same plotline: a secret relative with lethal powers/skills emerges from nowhere after an age of banishment by a paternal figure...and they've come to claim what they believe is rightfully theirs...and WOE TO ANYONE WHO OPPOSES THEM! Both protagonists face off against their relative twice (and lose the first time); the climactic battle is joined, predictably, by a contingent from a relatively faraway place: Sakaar/Gorilla City. The chief difference is one is an origin movie, and the other is not. IMO, the choice to feature Hulk was probably an ode to the 1988 movie The Incredible Hulk Returns (the first appearance of Thor in live action) rather than the Planet Hulk storyline, which is far weightier.

Didn't see Black Panther yet. You're rambling again.

[Monker]

Sorry. It was laughable. Clicking on mpegs, complete with little branded logos for each characters, is quite possibly the laziest form of storytelling I've ever seen in a movie.

Not as lame and lazy as the intro to each member of the "team" in Suicide Sqaud. That looked like it was taken directly from a 90's video game.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Sorry. It was laughable. Clicking on mpegs, complete with little branded logos for each characters, is quite possibly the laziest form of storytelling I've ever seen in a movie.

Not as lame and lazy as the intro to each member of the "team" in Suicide Sqaud. That looked like it was taken directly from a 90's video game.

I can't remember. Squad def sucked tho.

[verslibre]

I'm glad you guys agree on something.

[verslibre]

No one expected Warner Bros. to air its dirty laundry in public with some tell-all documentary about what really went down on Justice League. That would be weird (though let’s be honest, it would probably generate a lot more revenue in sales from curious rubberneckers eager for the salacious details). But it’s even weirder to see just how far a studio will bend over backwards to pretend everything went smoothly and there’s nothing to report. In this case, it’s not just a matter of sweeping it under the rug; the bonus features create a false narrative in which Zack Snyder delivered this finished film into your home, which isn’t fair to anyone, most of all Snyder himself, who would probably rather not be blamed for the milquetoast final product.Rather than even acknowledge the messy realities of making a giant mega-budget superhero movie—and surely there are ways it could have been done with empathy, that would be respectful of Snyder’s personal tragedy—this home-video release will stand as a bizarre curio, a collection of making-of features that awkwardly ignore, or outright deny, the true making of Justice League.

https://film.avclub.com/the-justice-league-blu-ray-is-a-bizarre-exercise-in-hid-1824111076

[YoungJRNYfan]

SyFy's 'Krypton' brought in the networks highest rating in years with 2.5 million viewers. Only if people gave a shit about the \S/.

[verslibre]

You're making an assumption.

Actually, no. No, I'm not. Here's Snyder admitting that there was no master plan to bring these characters together.

Q: When you came aboard Man of Steel, were you thinking in the back of your mind, "I could be the guy who gets to reboot Batman on film too!"

Snyder: I gotta be honest, it definitely was a thing that… after Man of Steel finished and we started talking about what would be in the next movie, I started subtly mentioning that it would be cool if he faced Batman. In the first meeting, it was like, "Maybe Batman?" Maybe at the end of the second movie, some Kryptonite gets delivered to Bruce Wayne's house or something. Like in a cryptic way, that's the first time we see him. But then, once you say it out loud, right? You're in a story meeting talking about, like, who should [Superman] fight if he fought this giant alien threat Zod who was basically his equal physically, from his planet, fighting on our turf… You know, who to fight next? The problem is, once you say it out loud, then it's kind of hard to go back, right? Once you say, "What about Batman?" then you realize, "Okay, that's a cool idea. What else?" I mean, what do you say after that? …But I'm not gonna say at all that when I took the job to do Man of Steel that I did it in a subversive way to get to Batman. I really believe that only after contemplating who could face [Superman] did Batman come into the picture...

Batman and Superman onscreen together has always been an option, something they wanted to get to. Did they want to do it as the follow-up to MoS? It was clearly an option. The shadow of World's Finest looms large. The ghosts of unproduced scripts linger in those hallways. It's something that was inevitable and had to happen at some point. However which way you cut it, they agreed on it rather quickly. Here's Zack revealing his (their) plans for the next movie (already in the writing stage) at Comic Con 2013, just five weeks after MoS' release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IepIHv5Bg

Listen to the crowd when the logo appears. Everyone loses their shit. Hardwick can't add anything. Nobody's moaning "But we wanted a solo Superman sequel!" Back when the news hit the street, the Web lit up like a bonfire in the shape of that logo. It was finally happening and people were going nuts, not to mention there was zilcho danger of a cheesed-up Schumacher-styled camp/cop-out.

MoS had earned 283.6 million domestically at that point. Superman Returns didn't get anywhere near that during its 18-week run.

Sorry. It was laughable. Clicking on mpegs, complete with little branded logos for each characters, is quite possibly the laziest form of storytelling I've ever seen in a movie.

They were short surveillance/drone/web cam clips. They weren't hour-long Who's Who-styled breakdowns hosted by Kevin Smith.

No, I already said that Iron Man 2 was clunky with its world building.

I left the theater disappointed.

Didn't see Black Panther yet. You're rambling again.

It's not rambling when you're not talking/writing, right? Sheesh, I thought I was the last guy to watch it. Took me nearly a month.

[The_Noble_Cause]

SyFy's 'Krypton' brought in the networks highest rating in years with 2.5 million viewers. Only if people gave a shit about the \S/.

That's not a high number. That's high for Syfy. Ever hear of the bigotry of low expectations?

[verslibre]

SyFy's 'Krypton' brought in the networks highest rating in years with 2.5 million viewers. Only if people gave a shit about the \S/.

WTF! That is totally skewed bs. Somebody hacked the system and inflated that number. I bet it was .5.

[verslibre]

SyFy's 'Krypton' brought in the networks highest rating in years with 2.5 million viewers. Only if people gave a shit about the \S/.

That's not a high number. That's high for Syfy. Ever hear of the bigotry of low expectations?

He said "the network," i.e. SyFy. 2.5 million ain't shabby for a SyFy show.

[Monker]

SyFy's 'Krypton' brought in the networks highest rating in years with 2.5 million viewers. Only if people gave a shit about the \S/.

Well, that may be true, but doesn't say as much as you may think. SyFy has taken a lot of hits over the years. It said the most viewed premier since Ascension, which only goes back to 2014...and Ascension did not make it to a full series.

It was OK, but needs a bit of something. I don't know, it was a bit boring at times. It could be a good show...but the premier was pretty mediocre. Maybe just pick up the pace slightly to keep things moving.

[Monker]

If you look at SyFy ratings, I'm sure they are happy with Krypton's debut. But, I just don't think they can maintain that large of an audience. I HOPE they can...as it would lead to better shows on the network...it just seems unlikely, knowing their history:

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/syfy ... ted-33879/

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but since Henson may get his schedule freed up, the talk of a Farscape movie could happen, and a Farscape "Next Generation" series. If SyFy can generate a "true" hit, it seems things like a Farscape series would be more likely.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He said "the network," i.e. SyFy. 2.5 million ain't shabby for a SyFy show.

He also said quote "only if people gave a shit about the \S/"
As if to say that the minuscule rating is somehow indicative of Superman still being a huge draw. Which it isn't.i

[The_Noble_Cause]

If you look at SyFy ratings, I'm sure they are happy with Krypton's debut. But, I just don't think they can maintain that large of an audience. I HOPE they can...as it would lead to better shows on the network...it just seems unlikely, knowing their history:

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/syfy ... ted-33879/

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but since Henson may get his schedule freed up, the talk of a Farscape movie could happen, and a Farscape "Next Generation" series. If SyFy can generate a "true" hit, it seems things like a Farscape series would be more likely.

They canceled Farscape because it was too expensive and the ratings were never that great. Even in the press release when they canceled it, the network said something to the effect that it never found a larger audience. Every good show this channel has had they have burned into the ground aside from the overrated Battlestar Galactica reboot.

That being said, they have renewed Z Nation, which has never been a ratings powerhouse. I'm hopeful that they will try to pick up Ash vs. Evil dead after Starz cancels it.

[verslibre]

That being said, they have renewed Z Nation, which has never been a ratings powerhouse. I'm hopeful that they will try to pick up Ash vs. Evil dead after Starz cancels it.

The first season of Z Nation was, uh, entertaining. Amusing. It's supposed to be the younger, shaggier sibling of The Walking Dead.

But Z is only a hair above Asylum fodder. The one advantage it does have is its "anything goes" aesthetic. They just don't give a crap. Meanwhile, TWD has faltered trying to maintain its so-called plausibility. When they met those junkyard goths, that was pretty much it for me. That was hysterically funny. I haven't watched this past season. I can only imagine the Spock chick in her leather coat, running around and looking freshly showered and fed and not sweating a drop in that outfit in that humidity.

[The_Noble_Cause]

That being said, they have renewed Z Nation, which has never been a ratings powerhouse. I'm hopeful that they will try to pick up Ash vs. Evil dead after Starz cancels it.

The first season of Z Nation was, uh, entertaining. Amusing. It's supposed to be the younger, shaggier sibling of The Walking Dead.

But Z is only a hair above Asylum fodder. The one advantage is does have is its "anything goes" aesthetic. They just don't give a crap. Meanwhile, TWD has faltered trying to maintain its so-called plausibility. When they met those junkyard goths, that was pretty much it for me. That was hysterically funny. I haven't watched this past season. I can only imagine the Spock chick in her leather coat, running around and looking freshly showered and fed and not sweating a drop in that outfit in that humidity.

I gave up on Walking Dead after the first season and after Darabont was fired. First season didn't really impress me anyway.

I think Z Nation has been underrated. They have tried some ambitious things. But also some stupid things. I did not watch the most recent season. But the first three did try some overarching plot lines and pulled them off.

[verslibre]

I gave up on Walking Dead after the first season and after Darabont was fired. First season didn't really impress me anyway.

Should've stuck with it a few seasons in, at least through their time in the prison. When they got to Alexandria is when things really started to go off the rails.

For all the build-up to Negan, I think he's overrated. The pre-Negan encounter at Terminus was cool, but way too short. Their capture there was one of the best things to happen in the show. But they got through all that in less than half a season.

The Road is on a different level entirely. Now that's a fine novel/movie. No zombies, but cannibalism is rampant.

[YoungJRNYfan]

He said "the network," i.e. SyFy. 2.5 million ain't shabby for a SyFy show.

He also said quote "only if people gave a shit about the \S/"
As if to say that the minuscule rating is somehow indicative of Superman still being a huge draw. Which it isn't.i

Superman? Bro, a prequel television pilot..on a lousy network.. featuring Kal-El's grandfather (I can't even type that without laughing out loud..) brought in 2.5 million viewers.

Superman's....


.... grandfather.

[verslibre]

He said "the network," i.e. SyFy. 2.5 million ain't shabby for a SyFy show.

He also said quote "only if people gave a shit about the \S/"
As if to say that the minuscule rating is somehow indicative of Superman still being a huge draw. Which it isn't.i

Superman? Bro, a prequel television pilot..on a lousy network.. featuring Kal-El's grandfather (I can't even type that without laughing out loud..) brought in 2.5 million viewers.

Superman's....


.... grandfather.

His GREAT granddad and his GREAT uncle were the real draw.

[YoungJRNYfan]

That's exactly what happened. And there was nothing in MOS that hinted at a shared universe. The Wayne Enterprises satellite is a blink and miss it moment.

It was still there, referencing the fact that the Man of Steel universe was OPEN for business. In other words: The idea of the shared universe exists. Not only was the Wayne Enterprises Easter Egg an indication of this, so was Blaze Comics, which is the hero Booster Gold. A Booster Gold film is still said to be in development. Snyder is one of those dudes who doesn't place things by accident. Every intricate detail has some meaning or another. It was just Snyder's way of saying "Yes, there's other hero's out there in this world". Something Nolan's movie neglected.

Does that sound like a guy with a grand master plan?

It sounds like a director being coy and teasing things to come. That's all he's doing is teasing around the bush.

MOS was intended to launch a MOS franchise. When MOS failed to resonate, they threw in Batman. Everybody knows it. You know it too.

Since everybody is good at cherry picking and plastering articles around here, I guess it's my turn:

The Fate Of The DC Cinematic Universe Hinges On The Success Of MAN OF STEEL:

Stakes are high for "Man of Steel." Other than Nolan's Batpics, Warners has not been able to effectively exploit the DC library. Its 2011 "Green Lantern" underperformed, and a "Justice League" film wouldn't likely be in theaters before 2015, as Warner's top brass has indicated that they are awaiting the results of "Man of Steel," which opens June 14, before moving further ahead.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/justice_ ... man-a73386

I followed Man of Steel from its announcement in 2009 to its release in 2013. Critics, bloggers and fans wouldn't leave Zack Snyder or WB alone without asking about Justice League. That's all anybody wanted to talk about was JL, JL, JL. There was immense pressure on the studio to get to a JL Universe. Not only did Man of Steel reboot Superman, essentially, the studio was using that reboot to create their path to JL. Whether it was Man of Steel 2 or BvS that followed Man of Steel, the endgame and goal was always going to come back around to JUSTICE LEAGUE. Always.

Back when WB announced MoS, they were in Christopher Nolan-mode and David S.Goyer wrote the script for Man of Steel. The Nolan philosophy was how you never write a movie for sequel purpose's that can possibly back you into a corner. This was the approach to Man of Steel.

Of course they wanted a franchise but with Clark Kent's journey JUST BEGINNING at the end to Man of Steel and the approach of "Don't write yourself into a corner" (not mentioning the pressure of Justice League) left many directions open for interpretation. It was wide open and they had many thoughts in mind. Snyder and Goyer had intentions for a true Man of Steel sequel featuring Metallo, but...as YOU YOURSELF just posted above ( ) Snyder's quote mentioned how Man of Steel 2 talks naturally progressed into the movie WB wanted to make for decades. BATMAN v SUPERMAN.

Man of Steel 2 was happening until things went into a different direction and it had nothing to do with failures or banking on Batman because of those failures. MoS2 morphed into BvS by the result of natural discussion. I know it because you posted exactly what Zack said. Don't play yourself like that

You just finished saying that BvsS was in the works for years. You're not familiar with the Andrew Kevin Walker treatment? It's better than the shit we got.

I'm well aware. I was just generally curious as to what you thought was specifically superior in those scripts compared to what Zack gave us.

Nobody denies that it opened big. But nobody liked it. And if they did, DC/WB wouldn't have had to enter defcon five panic crisis mode for JL.

You said Man of Steel hindered Batman v Superman. That's not the case considering BvS's huge opening. People flocked. If MoS hindered BvS, those numbers never would of came into fruition on BvS's opening weekend. They would of been more in the tune of Joss-stice League.

I've never seen a bad George Miller movie. Even Happy Feet is above and beyond Snyder's usual output.

Go read Justice League: Mortal's script. It's funny you keep on mentioning Miller and Snyder in the same vein because guess who else did? Maxwell Lord actor Jay Baruchel. Here's what he described:

"Imagine Miller doing Zack Snyder ... it was very tableau ... they were paintings. And what the characters were doing had such teeth to it."

As for Millers material, he had Superman being brainwashed (familiar?) and down on his luck (familiar?) where he brutally threw down with Wonder Woman (familiar?) where he snapped her wrists in half. To snap Superman from his trance, Maxwell Lord needed to be killed. Wonder Woman killed and didn't want to kill again. Guess who ends up killing Lord? Batman. How? By SNAPPING HIS GODDAMN NECK (familiar?) reminiscent of the DC Comics sourced material called Infinite Crisis where it was WONDER WOMAN who snapped Lords neck.

Fan went absolutely APESHIT out of their minds when Superman snapped Zods neck in Man of Steel and when Batman had planted weaponry in his Batmbobile in BvS. Could you imagine how they would of reacted to Batman snapping necks? And it IS Batman who has the no-kill rule in the comics...not Superman. Miller's take would have been 10X more brutal and 10X more divisive than Snyder's (familiar) take ever was.

[verslibre]

Snyder is one of those dudes who doesn't place things by accident.

WORD.

Miller's take would have been 10X more brutal and 10X more divisive than Snyder's (familiar) take ever was.

And the GA would've sucked it up through a bendy straw because the MCU didn't exist yet as we know it.

"Damn!! Superman hurt Wonder Woman! We've never seen shit like that before in a CBM!"

"WHOA! Batman killed ML! What a BAT-ASS MUDDAFUKKA!! Hash-tag Batman fuulz!!"

[Monker]

If you look at SyFy ratings, I'm sure they are happy with Krypton's debut. But, I just don't think they can maintain that large of an audience. I HOPE they can...as it would lead to better shows on the network...it just seems unlikely, knowing their history:

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/syfy ... ted-33879/

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but since Henson may get his schedule freed up, the talk of a Farscape movie could happen, and a Farscape "Next Generation" series. If SyFy can generate a "true" hit, it seems things like a Farscape series would be more likely.

They canceled Farscape because it was too expensive and the ratings were never that great. Even in the press release when they canceled it, the network said something to the effect that it never found a larger audience. Every good show this channel has had they have burned into the ground aside from the overrated Battlestar Galactica reboot.

Well, first of all the ratings thing just isn't true. I'm not going to go and look up all of the ratings...but, back then a guy on the SciFi forums did...he took the ratings of the eps in season 4 up to when the announcement happened, and compared them to previous seasons...and he could prove that there just wasn't much change, and compared to other shows on at the time, Farscape was doing as good as any o them. So, pointing to ratings was just BS...the same was said about the original BSG, and it was also BS.

I heard a lot of reasons why it was canceled over the years....including cost of production...which doesn't make sense because they could just cut the budget back a bit, or they needed to fund the BSG reboot..which is what I believed for a long time. One of the things mentioned on the SciFi forums back then was SciFi was in negotiations for the 5th season....and they had every intention of renewing. But, there was some unexpected hiccup during negotiations and it was canceled...so it got canceled due to not being able to come to an agreement. I didn't quite believe that, but now...

The news of the cancellation came as a shock to the cast and crew.

O'Bannon: Nothing could be done, because it was not a creative decision. It was entirely a business decision. The Henson Company had been sold to some German investors, and the German investors were having all sorts of legal issues and problems. A lot of stuff was going on with that company. As I understand it, the Sci Fi Channel kind of just as a negotiating ploy, to see if there was some wiggle room on the licensing fee for Season 5, had said in that case we'll just cancel it, and the German company leapt on that because they didn't want to have to deficit another season of a show that wasn't an inexpensive show.

Suddenly Sci Fi Channel's going, "Wait a second, let's not be too hasty here," and the Germans went, "Nah, we're done." Sci Fi, from what I understand, certainly wanted it back for a fifth season and would never have posed this if they knew the repercussions of it, but there was no chance to come back, because our new parent company wasn't interested in footing the bill, and maybe they didn't have the money, I don't know.

You can read a lot more here, including comments by Ben Browder:
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-bad-ti ... ies-finale

And, the reason why I am somewhat hopeful:
https://worldfusionwisdom.com/prepare-f ... eneration/

That being said, they have renewed Z Nation, which has never been a ratings powerhouse. I'm hopeful that they will try to pick up Ash vs. Evil dead after Starz cancels it.

And, they canceled "Dark Matter", which was good show that kept getting better...it's rating also were not bad. But, in this case, I think they did cancel it to free things up for Krypton. Krypton better improve because right now I would have rather had Dark Matter.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Well, first of all the ratings thing just isn't true. I'm not going to go and look up all of the ratings...but, back then a guy on the SciFi forums did...he took the ratings of the eps in season 4 up to when the announcement happened, and compared them to previous seasons...and he could prove that there just wasn't much change, and compared to other shows on at the time, Farscape was doing as good as any o them. So, pointing to ratings was just BS...the same was said about the original BSG, and it was also BS.

Listen, I loved Farscape. Justin Monjo's episode, "Crackers Don't Matter", is Rod Serling quality TV. Prolly in my top ten hours of television.
I wish the show continued. It took alot of chances and broke alot of rules.

That said....

I never said the ratings dipped in season 4. I said the ratings "were never that great."
The show never even broke a 2.0, despite very heavy promotion by the network.
It routinely got Sliders numbers.
Sliders season 5 had the production budget of a student film, got the same numbers, and it got cancelled.
So it was no surprise that Farscape would also get plugged.
It was only a matter of time.
So, yes, compared to other SyFy (or SciFi as it was then called) programming, Farscape had decent numbers. But nothing to write home about.
Remember - when Farscape debuted the network also had stuff like "Third Wave" which would barely pull a 1.0
SyFy was mismanaged by an idiot named Bonnie Hammer. The network would take hit shows and drive them into the ground.
The Invisible Man series debuted strong and was cancelled within 2 seasons.
SyFy was given a hit show, GvsE (a.k.a. Good vs Evil) from sister network, USA.
Within a year, it was gone.


One (positive) thing I will say about SyFy...their horror anthology series Channel Zero has really been fantastic.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I gave up on Walking Dead after the first season and after Darabont was fired. First season didn't really impress me anyway.

Should've stuck with it a few seasons in, at least through their time in the prison. When they got to Alexandria is when things really started to go off the rails.

Thanks. I tried the TWD comics too. I also read Kirkman's Outcast (which became a Showtime show). I kind of feel Kirkman is a hack.
And there was nothing in season 1 of Walking Dead that I hadn't see done better already by Romero or Fulci.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It was still there, referencing the fact that the Man of Steel universe was OPEN for business. In other words: The idea of the shared universe exists. Not only was the Wayne Enterprises Easter Egg an indication of this, so was Blaze Comics, which is the hero Booster Gold. A Booster Gold film is still said to be in development. Snyder is one of those dudes who doesn't place things by accident. Every intricate detail has some meaning or another. It was just Snyder's way of saying "Yes, there's other hero's out there in this world". Something Nolan's movie neglected.

You DO realize that the reason it's called an "Easter Egg" is because it's is hidden in the movie, right?

It sounds like a director being coy and teasing things to come. That's all he's doing is teasing around the bush.

You can believe that. I prefer to take Snyder at his word when he said:

"I gotta be honest, it definitely was a thing that… after Man of Steel finished and we started talking about what would be in the next movie, I started subtly mentioning that it would be cool if he faced Batman. In the first meeting, it was like, "Maybe Batman?" Maybe at the end of the second movie, some Kryptonite gets delivered to Bruce Wayne's house or something. Like in a cryptic way, that's the first time we see him. But then, once you say it out loud, right? You're in a story meeting talking about, like, who should [Superman] fight if he fought this giant alien threat Zod who was basically his equal physically, from his planet, fighting on our turf… You know, who to fight next? The problem is, once you say it out loud, then it's kind of hard to go back, right? Once you say, "What about Batman?" then you realize, "Okay, that's a cool idea. What else?" I mean, what do you say after that? …But I'm not gonna say at all that when I took the job to do Man of Steel that I did it in a subversive way to get to Batman. I really believe that only after contemplating who could face [Superman] did Batman come into the picture..."

Since everybody is good at cherry picking and plastering articles around here, I guess it's my turn:

Except I am quoting the director's own words. You are quoting an article from comic book movie dot com.