OFFICIAL NFL Week by Week Thread:

[YoungJRNY]

Dungy: Garcon's drop was the turning point of the game.

I couldn't agree more and Dan (Saint John) called it via text message right after it happened last night before the actual score turned. Truly the turning point.

"The biggest play of the game for me was in the second quarter when the Colts had the lead, they were up 10-3, and Pierre Garcon dropped a third down pass," "I think if Pierre had caught that ball they would probably go ahead, move on, and maybe be up 13-3 or possibly 17-3. That's the one, I think, that really allowed New Orleans back in it."

Colsten dropped a big one as well, answering the favor.

[S2M]

Big Ben is 9-2 in playoffs, Brady is 14-3.....Manning is still 9-9. Pitiful. Brady is ahead of Manning. I couldn't care less about individual stats.

What would you prefer: QB throwing for 80,000 yds lifetime...but ONE SB ring, or a QB throwing for maybe 50,000....and maybe 3 SB rings?

[YoungJRNY]

Big Ben is 9-2 in playoffs, Brady is 14-3.....Manning is still 9-9. Pitiful. Brady is ahead of Manning. I couldn't care less about individual stats.

What would you prefer: QB throwing for 80,000 yds lifetime...but ONE SB ring, or a QB throwing for maybe 50,000....and maybe 3 SB rings?

I've argued JFB all the time about yardage not being the main culprit of defining a football player, or one considered for the Hall of Fame. It's about what you meant to your team, how you played the game, and making a name for yourself as a player, and championships certainly help that credibility. Give me rings over yardage/completions/touchdowns/rating ANYTIME.

[Ehwmatt]

It's hard to say. Manning has never had the benefit of a defense like Big Ben has. In some ways, playoff wins are just more stats...

The fact of the matter is they didn't let Manning play his game last night. The offensive play calling was terrible and pussified.

[YoungJRNY]

It's hard to say. Manning has never had the benefit of a defense like Big Ben has. In some ways, playoff wins are just more stats...

The fact of the matter is they didn't let Manning play his game last night. The offensive play calling was terrible and pussified.

That's all arguable and all, but the offense takes care of what the offense does, and the defense takes care of what the defense does. Ben ALSO never had the luxury of play makers around him like Manning has, an expanded passing game, or playing 8 games yearly in a dome. The Steelers, ALWAYS had GREAT defenses. I didn't see Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, or Tommy Maddox win the Super Bowl on great Steelers teams with great defense's running the same system. The Steelers were ALWAYS a QB away from winning the big one. Ben was that missing link. Result: 2 Super Bowls in 4 seasons. The way the guy plays is Pittsburgh's style and the Steelers win more-so on how the way he plays, period.

Without Ben the last couple seasons, I'd admit the Steelers are a 7-9, 6-10 team at best. They finally had someone who could compliment a strong defense. That's what a franchise QB does to a football team.

As for Manning.. the Saints did a LOT of things to change it up on him, and the running backs were having GREAT games. Problem was, Manning couldn't hit 3rd downs and when you can't covert on 3rd downs, the whole offense sputters. Credit Saints Defense last night. (Also, that running play with 40 seconds left was RETARDED! They wasted at least 15 seconds and 1 play with a run up the gut. You put that series ALL on Manning in that situation. They dropped the ball on that call at the end there. Nice alligator arms, reliable Reggie Wayne.)

[Ehwmatt]

It's hard to say. Manning has never had the benefit of a defense like Big Ben has. In some ways, playoff wins are just more stats...

The fact of the matter is they didn't let Manning play his game last night. The offensive play calling was terrible and pussified.

That's all arguable and all, but the offense takes care of what the offense does, and the defense takes care of what the defense does. Ben ALSO never had the luxury of play makers around him like Manning has, an expanded passing game, or playing 8 games yearly in a dome. The Steelers, ALWAYS had GREAT defenses. I didn't see Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, or Tommy Maddox win the Super Bowl on great Steelers teams with great defense's running the same system. The Steelers were ALWAYS a QB away from winning the big one. Ben was that missing link. Result: 2 Super Bowls in 4 seasons. The way the guy plays is Pittsburgh's style and the Steelers win more-so on how the way he plays, period.

Without Ben the last couple seasons, I'd admit the Steelers are a 7-9, 6-10 team at best. They finally had someone who could compliment a strong defense. That's what a franchise QB does to a football team.

As for Manning.. the Saints did a LOT of things to change it up on him, and the running backs were having GREAT games. Problem was, Manning couldn't hit 3rd downs and when you can't covert on 3rd downs, the whole offense sputters. Credit Saints Defense last night. (Also, that running play with 40 seconds left was RETARDED! They wasted at least 15 seconds and 1 play with a run up the gut. You put that series ALL on Manning in that situation. They dropped the ball on that call at the end there. Nice alligator arms, reliable Reggie Wayne.)

I'm on record several times in this thread as being an admirer of many things about Big Ben (his character and lard ass being two notable exceptions). I'm not trying to take ANYTHING away from him. He's unbelievably clutch. The fact of the matter is that Peyton has a unique situation with the way his defense and running game have shaped up over the course of his career. He NEEDS to win more rings to be considered the greatest, I won't dispute that. But you can't lay it all on him because they lost. In my eyes, Peyton has consistently taken explosive but severely flawed teams (eg defensive/running games) very far nearly each year of his career. I don't think Big Ben would be capable of the same result. That's why I don't think measuring playoff records and wins is necessarily the end-all of QB careers, just as pure stats aren't.

But yes, that run play was retarded and was just a microcosm of how the colts disgustingly underused Manning. Hell, if I didn't know any better, it almost looked like they didn't trust him. It was just very strange.

I'm not taking anything away from the Saints, they were a great football team who beat the next two best teams in the whole league in a row to win it all (Vikes, Saints, and Colts... then everybody else... that's how it was this year). But, it was just a downright strange game in the way Manning was (not) utilized. The key drops didn't help either.

I also love to see Brees succeed, he's a good guy and of course a great player. Is he the smallest QB in a while to win the big one?

[YoungJRNY]

It's hard to say. Manning has never had the benefit of a defense like Big Ben has. In some ways, playoff wins are just more stats...

The fact of the matter is they didn't let Manning play his game last night. The offensive play calling was terrible and pussified.

That's all arguable and all, but the offense takes care of what the offense does, and the defense takes care of what the defense does. Ben ALSO never had the luxury of play makers around him like Manning has, an expanded passing game, or playing 8 games yearly in a dome. The Steelers, ALWAYS had GREAT defenses. I didn't see Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, or Tommy Maddox win the Super Bowl on great Steelers teams with great defense's running the same system. The Steelers were ALWAYS a QB away from winning the big one. Ben was that missing link. Result: 2 Super Bowls in 4 seasons. The way the guy plays is Pittsburgh's style and the Steelers win more-so on how the way he plays, period.

Without Ben the last couple seasons, I'd admit the Steelers are a 7-9, 6-10 team at best. They finally had someone who could compliment a strong defense. That's what a franchise QB does to a football team.

As for Manning.. the Saints did a LOT of things to change it up on him, and the running backs were having GREAT games. Problem was, Manning couldn't hit 3rd downs and when you can't covert on 3rd downs, the whole offense sputters. Credit Saints Defense last night. (Also, that running play with 40 seconds left was RETARDED! They wasted at least 15 seconds and 1 play with a run up the gut. You put that series ALL on Manning in that situation. They dropped the ball on that call at the end there. Nice alligator arms, reliable Reggie Wayne.)

I'm on record several times in this thread as being an admirer of many things about Big Ben (his character and lard ass being two notable exceptions). I'm not trying to take ANYTHING away from him. He's unbelievably clutch. The fact of the matter is that Peyton has a unique situation with the way his defense and running game have shaped up over the course of his career. He NEEDS to win more rings to be considered the greatest, I won't dispute that. But you can't lay it all on him because they lost. In my eyes, Peyton has consistently taken explosive but severely flawed teams (eg defensive/running games) very far nearly each year of his career. I don't think Big Ben would be capable of the same result. That's why I don't think measuring playoff records and wins is necessarily the end-all of QB careers, just as pure stats aren't.

But yes, that run play was retarded and was just a microcosm of how the colts disgustingly underused Manning. Hell, if I didn't know any better, it almost looked like they didn't trust him. It was just very strange.

I'm not taking anything away from the Saints, they were a great football team who beat the next two best teams in the whole league in a row to win it all (Vikes, Saints, and Colts... then everybody else... that's how it was this year). But, it was just a downright strange game in the way Manning was (not) utilized. The key drops didn't help either.

I also love to see Brees succeed, he's a good guy and of course a great player. Is he the smallest QB in a while to win the big one?

That lard ass statement was fuckin hilarious. Good one dude. You must factor in Ben having a below average O-line AT best the past 3 seasons. Manning has had one of the best lines in football for YEARS. Anyway, as far as Manning, I'm not taking anything away from Manning because of the result of this game, and you can find in all my posts saying Peyton, in my eyes, is the best I've ever seen. As for the all time greats, unfortunately performances like that would not put his name on that pedestal, and even though he's as great as he is, he certainly has choked time, time, time, and time again in those situations.

As for the running game, Edgerin James was one helluva addition to go along with Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne all those years. The defense was actually better than what some people think having Sanders and Freeney on the units, but yes, Manning never really had that dominant defense, and he would probably have more rings if he did. But that doesn't escape the fact that when it's time to step up, all eyes on Manning, he ALWAYS chokes it away. Makes you wonder if he was lucky to face a Rex Grossman led Bears team in '07.

[lights1961]

for those interested in looking ahead the draft is April 17-18 if I have that right... training camps in mid July... and the first kick off is 30 weeks away... Sept 9.

Rick

[S2M]

You heard it here foist....Peppers to NE. And an outside chance LT comes here too. Word.

[Michigan Girl]

for those interested in looking ahead the draft is April 17-18 if I have that right... training camps in mid July... and the first kick off is 30 weeks away... Sept 9.

Rick

We're not done celebrating this season, yet!! I'll let you know when the party is over!!

[YoungJRNY]

You heard it here foist....Peppers to NE. And an outside chance LT comes here too. Word.

Two players WAY past their prime. Good for New England, just like the Seau experience, they will be one over the hill player advanced on a terrible defense in need of young legs.

[lights1961]

for those interested in looking ahead the draft is April 17-18 if I have that right... training camps in mid July... and the first kick off is 30 weeks away... Sept 9.

Rick

We're not done celebrating this season, yet!! I'll let you know when the party is over!!

Iam already excited for next season though!!

[Ehwmatt]

You heard it here foist....Peppers to NE. And an outside chance LT comes here too. Word.

Two players WAY past their prime. Good for New England, just like the Seau experience, they will be one over the hill player advanced on a terrible defense in need of young legs.

Peppers is worth the risk, LT isn't worth a $5 footlong at Subway.

[YoungJRNY]

You heard it here foist....Peppers to NE. And an outside chance LT comes here too. Word.

Two players WAY past their prime. Good for New England, just like the Seau experience, they will be one over the hill player advanced on a terrible defense in need of young legs.

Peppers is worth the risk, LT isn't worth a $5 footlong at Subway.

Peppers would serve well as a 1 year deal. He might be an upgrade regarding pass rush since the Pats missed Seymour a lot more than what they would want to think. Other than that, he's maybe a 5 sack year guy, at best. It'll be a Jason Taylor experience when he went to Washington for a year. I agree with L.T, he was my prediction for comeback player of the year but failed miserably. Maybe he could go somewhere worth giving him 18-20 carries a game. We'll see.

[RossValoryRocks]

The fact of the matter is they didn't let Manning play his game last night. The offensive play calling was terrible and pussified.

Manning calls all of his own plays...So HE didn't let himself play his own game!

[Red13JoePa]

Dungy: Garcon's drop was the turning point of the game.

I couldn't agree more and Dan (Saint John) called it via text message right after it happened last night before the actual score turned.

He's good w/ that stuff....Watching the Citrus/Capital One Bowl in January and Penn St was driving for the winning score and they had basically a do-or-die 3rd and the season and it wasn;t a gimme especially for a running play; it was like 3rd and 3 or 4...the overrated, underachieving, soft Evan Royster remained the feature back despite another wimpy performance. T
The blower rang. I picked it up and I hear in the that Chicago accent and the whisper he does when focused in and serious: "Dooooooood. They need to give the bahl to Stephon Green heeeer and I think they will. (*click*)"
He was gone before I could say, "I agree but there is NO shot Paterno goes away from the upperclassman here in this spot" and the ball was snapped and it was Green blasting through a crack and converting.

[YoungJRNY]

The fact of the matter is they didn't let Manning play his game last night. The offensive play calling was terrible and pussified.

Manning calls all of his own plays...So HE didn't let himself play his own game!

Good point. They had a great interview earlier saying Moore, their O-coordinator, just gives Peyton an idea of where to go with the offense and Manning dictates and either calls the plays in the huddle or at the line of scrimmage.

[YoungJRNY]

Not sure if this list changed already, but this will change at least 20 times from now until August. On ESPN yesterday, The Colts were favored to win it at I think (13-2) then the Steelers followed at (7-1) and then the Saints at (9-1.) Not sure with the numbers, though. Like it really matters.

[lights1961]

Not sure if this list changed already, but this will change at least 20 times from now until August. On ESPN yesterday, The Colts were favored to win it at I think (13-2) then the Steelers followed at (7-1) and then the Saints at (9-1.) Not sure with the numbers, though. Like it really matters.

the redskins are 50-1???? I think that is mighty generous of the odds makers... Skins should be 10000-1...

[Rockindeano]

Not sure if this list changed already, but this will change at least 20 times from now until August. On ESPN yesterday, The Colts were favored to win it at I think (13-2) then the Steelers followed at (7-1) and then the Saints at (9-1.) Not sure with the numbers, though. Like it really matters.

LOL at the Stealers. 7-1? You better get thrice that much for a Super Bowl. Win your own division and then get back to me. Better yet, make the playoffs then let me know. LOL at the myopia in Pittsburgh fan. Bet your money on the Pens not the Stealers.

[YoungJRNY]

Not sure if this list changed already, but this will change at least 20 times from now until August. On ESPN yesterday, The Colts were favored to win it at I think (13-2) then the Steelers followed at (7-1) and then the Saints at (9-1.) Not sure with the numbers, though. Like it really matters.

LOL at the Stealers. 7-1? You better get thrice that much for a Super Bowl. Win your own division and then get back to me. Better yet, make the playoffs then let me know. LOL at the myopia in Pittsburgh fan. Bet your money on the Pens not the Stealers.

HAHA, you act like the Steelers know nothing about the playoffs or the division title. Since 2000, the Steelers won their division in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007 and 2008 and won the Super Bowl in 2005 and 2008 and appeared in 4 Title games. 1 year removed from a Super Bowl. Won a Super Bowl in 2005, 2006 missed the playoffs and then won it again in '08. Steelers have a nice team building to carry on success. A down year or two is expected but Cincy, Baltimore and the Clowns are not very good clubs to be feared, we just had a subpar year who happened to miss it by one game despite injuries to All Pros and a 5 game losing streak. Winning the last 3 games, 2 of them against playoff teams and 1 in the running isn't shabby and tells a lot. We'll be back.

As for the Pens, I love the Pens. They have been GREAT for the city the last few years. Still, they will always be second rank compared to the Steelers, it's actually not even close. The Steelers define this town and everything that goes along with it. Top to bottom. Pittsburgh is a football town and the Pens are nothing but second fiddle during football season. I've been to countless Pens games. Have glass season tickets within the family. The atmosphere compared to football is pretty laughable, including playoffs, taking nothing away from hockey or the Pens because it's easily my second fav sport, but the gap is not even measurable.

[Rockindeano]

Not sure if this list changed already, but this will change at least 20 times from now until August. On ESPN yesterday, The Colts were favored to win it at I think (13-2) then the Steelers followed at (7-1) and then the Saints at (9-1.) Not sure with the numbers, though. Like it really matters.

LOL at the Stealers. 7-1? You better get thrice that much for a Super Bowl. Win your own division and then get back to me. Better yet, make the playoffs then let me know. LOL at the myopia in Pittsburgh fan. Bet your money on the Pens not the Stealers.

HAHA, you act like the Steelers know nothing about the playoffs or the division title. Since 2000, the Steelers won their division in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007 and 2008 and won the Super Bowl in 2005 and 2008 and appeared in 4 Title games. 1 year removed from a Super Bowl. Won a Super Bowl in 2005, 2006 missed the playoffs and then won it again in '08.

This argument isn't about the past or the legacy. What have you done for me lately?

Steelers have a nice team building to carry on success. A down year or two is expected but Cincy, Baltimore and the Clowns are not very good clubs to be feared,

Cincinnati and Baltimore BOTH made the playoffs, something the Stealers did not do, and the Clowns won their last five in a row. I would laugh hysterically out fucking loud if the Stealers finished last next year.

I like you Trav, I really do, I love your passion, you are exactly like me guess. It just seems to me and others that Pittsburgh feels that they are entitled to be in the playoffs and/or Super Bowl every fucking year. The numbers do not lie. You lost to Oakland, Kansas City and the Clowns last year. That alone should disqualify any team from playing in the postseason.

[YoungJRNY]

Not sure if this list changed already, but this will change at least 20 times from now until August. On ESPN yesterday, The Colts were favored to win it at I think (13-2) then the Steelers followed at (7-1) and then the Saints at (9-1.) Not sure with the numbers, though. Like it really matters.

LOL at the Stealers. 7-1? You better get thrice that much for a Super Bowl. Win your own division and then get back to me. Better yet, make the playoffs then let me know. LOL at the myopia in Pittsburgh fan. Bet your money on the Pens not the Stealers.

HAHA, you act like the Steelers know nothing about the playoffs or the division title. Since 2000, the Steelers won their division in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2007 and 2008 and won the Super Bowl in 2005 and 2008 and appeared in 4 Title games. 1 year removed from a Super Bowl. Won a Super Bowl in 2005, 2006 missed the playoffs and then won it again in '08.

This argument isn't about the past or the legacy. What have you done for me lately?

Steelers have a nice team building to carry on success. A down year or two is expected but Cincy, Baltimore and the Clowns are not very good clubs to be feared,

Cincinnati and Baltimore BOTH made the playoffs, something the Stealers did not do, and the Clowns won their last five in a row. I would laugh hysterically out fucking loud if the Stealers finished last next year.

I like you Trav, I really do, I love your passion, you are exactly like me guess. It just seems to me and others that Pittsburgh feels that they are entitled to be in the playoffs and/or Super Bowl every fucking year. The numbers do not lie. You lost to Oakland, Kansas City and the Clowns last year. That alone should disqualify any team from playing in the postseason.

Uhh, yes, you are correct that the Steelers missed the playoffs. You are correct that the Bungholes and the Ratbirds made the post season. I am not disputing that whatsoever. Someone had to win the North, and even though the North is ALWAYS hard nosed, no matter how bad the record indicates, the North wasn't that big of a threat this season after the Steelers fell from 6-2 to losing their next 5. I don't argue whatsoever that the Steelers had a rough year, I lived it. Teams like Cincy and Balty took advantage of it and proved in the playoffs they were no threat. Why do you think the AFC was such a cluster fuck? Because it was the Steelers 5 game losing streak that put those teams in the picture. You're right, the Steelers didn't deserve shit last year and played terrible at times, but also brilliantly at times.

My point is, out of ALL the teams within the division, the Steelers have the best team out of the 4 and history shows they will bounce back. They are a player or two defensively away from being as dominant in the division as they always were and I'm excited to see them bounce back.

And Dean, I like you too brother. You're probably the coolest mother fucker I've ever met.

[YoungJRNY]

Bengals signed WR Matt Jones today. Another degenirate cocaine using 1st round pick who Jax let go after 4 years and the NFL suspended him last year. WTF? Then the Bengals brought in "Pacman" Jones for a tryout as well. Good grief!

The Bungholes sure love their coke-heads and prisoners. Wasn't Rey Mantuaskldfluga just picked up for something? He fits in nicely.

[Rockindeano]

Trav, you can't keep citing history dude. Do I think Pittsburgh will bounce back? Yep, especially now that they will get a third place schedule. Also, yeah, they are a great organization. However, just because Pittsburgh may improve, that doesn't mean Cincinnati or Baltimore or even Cleveland can't or won't improve too. This division is pretty fuckin even. The AFC is perhaps having a changing of the guard except Indy. NE is not the same Patriots juggernaut anymore. Look at the Jets- young and on the uptick. Look at Houston- same thing, very good and very young. Just saying the old AFC with Miami, NE, and others is changing.

[YoungJRNY]

Trav, you can't keep citing history dude. Do I think Pittsburgh will bounce back? Yep, especially now that they will get a third place schedule. Also, yeah, they are a great organization. However, just because Pittsburgh may improve, that doesn't mean Cincinnati or Baltimore or even Cleveland can't or won't improve too. This division is pretty fuckin even. The AFC is perhaps having a changing of the guard except Indy. NE is not the same Patriots juggernaut anymore. Look at the Jets- young and on the uptick. Look at Houston- same thing, very good and very young. Just saying the old AFC with Miami, NE, and others is changing.

Third place schedule or not, opponents were set already, just one or two teams of a difference at best. Besides, the NFL schedule is something overrated while looking into the next year, who knows how teams will pan out. The Steelers won the Super Bowl with the hardest schedule practically EVER in 2008 so I take that with a grain of salt.

I'm not reciting history, I just know the kind of team the Steelers are VERY capable and putting on the field (we have a higher draft pick than normal, so that should help us bigtime in finding a quality player) and I can't say that about other clubs within the North. Baltimore has a lot of question marks offensively, esp at the wide receiver position, and their defense is not even close to where they were a year or two ago, esp Ed Reed's career coming to an end. Cleveland got a long road, but they are certainly getting people in the right places. Cincy is the bastard child and I wouldn't expect them to drop off the next couple seasons, again. The Carson Palmer experience and the Chad Ochostinko regime never amounts into anything & is anything but scary. Despite winning the division, they weren't impressive against quality opponents and their offense was terrible down the stretch. As for the AFC, yes, they are stacked, as they've always were in this decade and it is for sure the toughest Conference to play in.

The pure BEAUTY about the NFL, is that 1-15 can turn to 15-1 in one short year. We'll see what we got in August.

[Red13JoePa]

[quote="Rockindeano"]Trav, you can't keep citing history dude. [/quote


Unless, that is, you're comparing record sales from the mid-80s to now as you do in the Journey forum.

[Rockindeano]

Unless, that is, you're comparing record sales from the mid-80s to now as you do in the Journey forum.

Jesus Christ, you really are delusional. You really believe Journey is all that don't you? Check yourself. They will not outsell Steve Perry dude, unless they put out a phony 3 disc package and sell it for 8 bucks again. LOL, congratulations boys.

[Red13JoePa]

Unless, that is, you're comparing record sales from the mid-80s to now as you do in the Journey forum.

Jesus Christ, you really are delusional. You really believe Journey is all that don't you? Check yourself. They will not outsell Steve Perry dude, unless they put out a phony 3 disc package and sell it for 8 bucks again. LOL, congratulations boys.

Revelation 800k+ (as of 10/09).

"perry" over/under 85 K.

[Rick]

Unless, that is, you're comparing record sales from the mid-80s to now as you do in the Journey forum.

Jesus Christ, you really are delusional. You really believe Journey is all that don't you? Check yourself. They will not outsell Steve Perry dude, unless they put out a phony 3 disc package and sell it for 8 bucks again. LOL, congratulations boys.

Revelation 800k+ (as of 10/09).

"perry" over/under 85 K.

Perry's at a huge disadvantage here. He's been out of the public eye for too long. Young people don't even know who he is. With that said, assuming he's releasing something, I hope he fucking kills.