Oil Spill Devastation

[7 Wishes]

I never understood how some pointed fingers at Bush for Katrina.

The Army Corps of Engineers has been floundering in mediocrity for decades. You can't blame a sitting President for the failure of multiple agencies and programs, especially when they have historically been poorly run.

That being said, I think Obama looks like a fool for a) coming out in support of offshore drilling less than a month before the spill, and b) reacting to criticism of his supposed overly restrained response to the disaster by wondering aloud whose ass he needed to kick.

The fact is, it's been common knowledge the only way to prevent an accident like this is to have multiple functioning but closed well heads closer to the source of the oil - that way, when something like this happens, you just move up the pipeline and seal it up. That should be required for any offshore drilling from now on.

[ohsherrie]

I can cut & paste too.

Sounds more like it was the oil rig huggers' greed than the tree huggers' concern that caused the problem. Same old republiconomics; What ever makes the rich richer is good business regardless of any other results.

From ProPublica:

"With the Deepwater Horizon rig six weeks behind schedule [1] and millions over budget, BP made a number of decisions with the Gulf well that saved money, saved time, and set the stage for the disaster [2], according to an investigation by The Wall Street Journal.

Weeks ago, in Congressional hearings that President Obama called a “ridiculous spectacle [3],” BP blamed the failed blowout preventer [4] owned by Transocean, and Transocean blamed the cementing process performed by Halliburton [4].

But according to the Journal article, BP made several cost-cutting and time-saving decisions in its choice of well design, its preparation for cementing, its testing of the well after the cementing process was complete, and its decision to proceed with a risky method of finishing the well even after a pressure test revealed signs of “a very large abnormality,” as described by a BP investigator’s findings in a Congressional memo released earlier this week [5]."

From CBS:

This post was written by CBS News investigative producer Laura Strickler:

"Newly released government inspection reports show BP's Deepwater Horizon oil rig was only inspected six times in 2008 even though government regulations say drilling rigs should be inspected every month. In total, the rig missed 16 inspections since January 2005, according to the documents.

An Interior Department official told CBS News a rig might miss an inspection because it's moving from one place to the next or there might be a delay from weather.

Special Section: Disaster in the Gulf

Inspectors found five incidents of non-compliance at the rig dating back to 2001.

The last government inspection of the rig was on April 1 by Eric Neal, a government inspector who had only recently started his drilling inspection training, yet he was sent to the rig by himself to do the inspection.

Neal was asked about his experience by Jason Mathews, one of the accident investigators from the Deepwater Horizon Joint Investigation, May 11:

(Question): Have you done any drilling inspections?

(Neal): Only in training.

(Q): And for how long have you been in training?

(Neal): Four months.

"Seems a bit of a risk to allow novice inspectors to be responsible for a deepwater rig," said Gene Beck, associate professor of petroleum engineering at Texas A&M University.

In response to questions about the inspections, an Interior Department spokesperson sent a statement referring to the many ongoing inquiries into the rig's explosion.

"These questions will be best addressed in the context of those investigations," the statement read.

"We need professional, highly trained inspectors who aren't just pushing paper and rubberstamping what the industry tells them," said Rep. Nick Rahall, D-W.Va., chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee investigating the government's ability to thoroughly inspect offshore rigs.

The Minerals Management Service (MMS), the government agency that conducts inspections, has been sharply criticized for its "cozy relationship" with the oil and gas industry.

Two MMS employees who inspected Deepwater Horizon in 2009 were quoted in a recent report (PDF) by the Department of Interior inspector general describing the close relationship that MMS inspectors have with the oil industry.

Marcus Mouton inspected Deepwater Horizon June 9, 2009. Mouton told federal investigators he participated in skeet-shooting fundraisers where "various offshore companies sponsored a five person team.

"He said he had thought participating in the events was acceptable because many MMS employees including senior managers attended and participated in them. He explained he did not think offshore companies received any favors in exchange for inviting MMS inspectors to these events."

Another Deepwater Horizon inspector, Larry Williamson, described the relationship between the oil and gas industry and MMS employees by saying, "Obviously we are all oil industry." He added "We're all from the same part of the country. Almost all of our inspectors have worked for oil companies out on these same platforms."

But Williamson said once a staff member was brought up on charges of taking gratuities from oil and gas companies, he told his employees that even eating with an industry representative was unacceptable.

MMS inspection reports dating back to September 2001 show five red flags or incidents of non-compliance. The last incident was from February 2007. Back in 2003, the reports note there was a pollution event on the rig that was investigated.

MMS has 56 inspectors in the Gulf of Mexico to oversee 3,500 production facilities that operate 35,591 wells, according to the Interior Department."

[The Sushi Hunter]

Well the cycle is about complete now. Shit happens, everyone gets pissed off, and then the president makes a public appearance stating he's going to crack some skulls down at BP for it. Wonderful.

[7 Wishes]

There are Democrats in Louisiana?

Ask the predominantly African-American fishermen who work the gulf coast and live in poverty, and ask them the same questions.

[The Sushi Hunter]

There are Democrats in Louisiana?

Ask the predominantly African-American fishermen who work the gulf coast and live in poverty, and ask them the same questions.

What are the questions?

[7 Wishes]

The one LiePaster quoted just above.

[The Sushi Hunter]

There are Democrats in Louisiana?

Ask the predominantly African-American fishermen who work the gulf coast and live in poverty, and ask them the same questions.

Can we ask them to produce their tax returns for the last 2 years to prove their claim?

Yeah that would be interesting to say the least.

[cudaclan]

...and let's take a trip down memory lane. How the years have passed. How the infinite loop of (insert to your likings) continues.

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... highlight=

[7 Wishes]

So, WTF is the point, you troglodyte? We were lied to as to the safety of offshore drilling, just like we were lied to about the "reasons" for going to war with Iraq.

My reply to the fracas was:

A component of the windfall profit tax that whitewashes your argument, Lie Finder, is that regulations would be put in place that would not allow companies to raise prices again as a consequence of the windfall tax. Those regulations could only be rescinded if that actual PROFIT MARGIN fell below the cutoff line.

So, Random Fuck, if you don't have a point, STFU.

[donnaplease]

So, WTF is the point, you troglodyte? We were lied to as to the safety of offshore drilling, just like we were lied to about the "reasons" for going to war with Iraq.

My reply to the fracas was:

A component of the windfall profit tax that whitewashes your argument, Lie Finder, is that regulations would be put in place that would not allow companies to raise prices again as a consequence of the windfall tax. Those regulations could only be rescinded if that actual PROFIT MARGIN fell below the cutoff line.

So, Random Fuck, if you don't have a point, STFU.

I didn't realize democrats were so gullible that they could be lied to so easily, especially by someone so intellectually bankrupt as George W Bush...

I've got some ocean-front property for sale in the Shenandoah Valley if any of you dems are interested...

[gr8dane]

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/06/fallout-from-spill.html

Poll: Louisianans think Bush did better on Katrina than Obama on oil mess...

Tuesday, June 15, 2010

Fallout from the Spill

Our new Louisiana poll has a lot of data points to show how unhappy voters in the state are with Barack Obama's handling of the oil spill but one perhaps sums it up better than anything else- a majority of voters there think George W. Bush did a better job with Katrina than Obama's done dealing with the spill.

50% of voters in the state, even including 31% of Democrats, give Bush higher marks on that question compared to 35% who pick Obama.

Maybe.

In my view Katrina was a natural disaster and yes, Bush did a stellar job on that one.
But I would categorize the oil spill as human error,and therefore the humans responsible (BP and not Obama) should take care of it.

I know this has nothing to do with that popularity poll you pulled out.

[ohsherrie]

Our new Louisiana poll has a lot of data points to show how unhappy voters in the state are with Barack Obama's handling of the oil spill but one perhaps sums it up better than anything else- a majority of voters there think George W. Bush did a better job with Katrina than Obama's done dealing with the spill.

In Louisianna (?) and of course there wouldn't be any racial bias amongst those being polled would there? Not to mention the predominantly Republican base there. Polls mean nothing because they're designed to make the point that the pollsters are trying to make.

[7 Wishes]

Stu called you guys out on this one - read his post.

It's not about gullibility. It's not my job to be able to determine whether or not I'm being lied to by a greedy corporation - it's the responsibility of the government. When that government (Dubbyas) is in a silent partnership with that industry (oil) and the Administration has gone to great lengths to ensure deregulation that makes overseeing or holding accountable these greedy bastard tycoons, the "truth" that's presented to the public is much different than the TRUTH. We were swindled and hoodwinked by the Dubbya "Administration" with Iraq, and his predatory deregulation continues to wreak havoc on our institutions and our economy (i.e the spill, the bank bailout bill, et cetera).

[The Sushi Hunter]

Ooooh Yeah, the president is really pissed now. He says he's going to make BP pay. Fuck I'm scared!

[7 Wishes]

No offense but.....DUMBEST THING EVER STATED ON MR!

Sorry, but the Top 10 dumbest things ever stated on MR are the exclusive domain of you and RWF.

Louisiana IS predominantly Republican, and so many blacks live below the poverty line that they couldn't participate in a national poll if they wanted to.

[Michigan Girl]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

[Rockindeano]

Ooooh Yeah, the president is really pissed now. He says he's going to make BP pay. Fuck I'm scared!

I guess you would rather have us, the fucking taxpayer pay, for someone else's bullshit.

[Rockindeano]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

It's true. Louisiana is a red state, and even moreso now after Katrina, when so many thousand blacks were forced to Houston and other outlying cities. Your kidding yourself if you think LA has any chance of going blue anytime soon.

[Michigan Girl]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

It's true. Louisiana is a red state, and even moreso now after Katrina, when so many thousand blacks were forced to Houston and other outlying cities. Your kidding yourself if you think LA has any chance of going blue anytime soon.

I want to know about the blacks ...what makes the poverty stricken in
LA. different from any other state, why aren't they included in the polls?!?!

[Rockindeano]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

It's true. Louisiana is a red state, and even moreso now after Katrina, when so many thousand blacks were forced to Houston and other outlying cities. Your kidding yourself if you think LA has any chance of going blue anytime soon.

I want to know about the blacks ...what makes the poverty stricken in
LA. different from any other state, why aren't they included in the polls?!?!

Well one simple point why blacks or other low poverty people aren't included in polls is that they don't have telephones(landlines). Polls aren't done via cell phones. That's one reason why students don't get polled too much these days either...they only have cell phones.

C'mon Coug, are you disputing the sadness of the poverty stricken in Louisiana? Hell, I was in the 9th ward and I can tell you it is like being in Mexico. Real deplorable conditions, not good enough for fuckin rats!

[Michigan Girl]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

It's true. Louisiana is a red state, and even moreso now after Katrina, when so many thousand blacks were forced to Houston and other outlying cities. Your kidding yourself if you think LA has any chance of going blue anytime soon.

I want to know about the blacks ...what makes the poverty stricken in
LA. different from any other state, why aren't they included in the polls?!?!

Well one simple point why blacks or other low poverty people aren't included in polls is that they don't have telephones(landlines). Polls aren't done via cell phones. That's one reason why students don't get polled too much these days either...they only have cell phones.

C'mon Coug, are you disputing the sadness of the poverty stricken in Louisiana? Hell, I was in the 9th ward and I can tell you it is like being in Mexico. Real deplorable conditions, not good enough for fuckin rats!

NO ...my question, once again, is what makes
the poverty stricken in the State of LOUISIANA different from any other state in the USA!?!? This last Presidential Election
had people voting that had never voted in their lives ...that includes this state!!! Everyone was represented.
The poll thing goes without saying, it's like that in every state, as well!! My point is that it is no different here than
it is anywhere else ...but damn, when people want to vote they sure as hell find a way, don't they!?!

[AlteredDNA]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

It's true. Louisiana is a red state, and even moreso now after Katrina, when so many thousand blacks were forced to Houston and other outlying cities. Your kidding yourself if you think LA has any chance of going blue anytime soon.

I want to know about the blacks ...what makes the poverty stricken in
LA. different from any other state, why aren't they included in the polls?!?!

Well one simple point why blacks or other low poverty people aren't included in polls is that they don't have telephones(landlines). Polls aren't done via cell phones. That's one reason why students don't get polled too much these days either...they only have cell phones.

C'mon Coug, are you disputing the sadness of the poverty stricken in Louisiana? Hell, I was in the 9th ward and I can tell you it is like being in Mexico. Real deplorable conditions, not good enough for fuckin rats!

NO ...my question, once again, is what makes
the poverty stricken in the State of LOUISIANA different from any other state in the USA!?!? This last Presidential Election
had people voting that had never voted in their lives ...that includes this state!!! Everyone was represented.
The poll thing goes without saying, it's like that in every state, as well!! My point is that it is no different here than
it is anywhere else ...but damn, when people want to vote they sure as hell find a way, don't they!?!

Curious about this myself...

Also, I know I'm slow and all, being from Louisiana , but did 7 and Sherrie imply that we're all racist in Louisiana?

[Rockindeano]

My point is that it is no different here than
it is anywhere else ...but damn, when people want to vote they sure as hell find a way, don't they!!

I believe there are certain areas, and certain states where poverty is more than usual. Look at Mississippi. Every year they come out on top of the greatest poverty known to the US of A. Certain parts of Louisiana are poverty stricken due to lack of resources and jobs, as well as a lack of education. The folks in the 9th ward and elsewhere in NO proper are pretty fuckin stupid. I'm sorry, they're not too edumacated. Just so happens the South has more poverty than the NW, the far west, the NE, or even the rust belt.

[Michigan Girl]

I'd love to know where this information is being derived ...

It's true. Louisiana is a red state, and even moreso now after Katrina, when so many thousand blacks were forced to Houston and other outlying cities. Your kidding yourself if you think LA has any chance of going blue anytime soon.

I want to know about the blacks ...what makes the poverty stricken in
LA. different from any other state, why aren't they included in the polls?!?!

Well one simple point why blacks or other low poverty people aren't included in polls is that they don't have telephones(landlines). Polls aren't done via cell phones. That's one reason why students don't get polled too much these days either...they only have cell phones.

C'mon Coug, are you disputing the sadness of the poverty stricken in Louisiana? Hell, I was in the 9th ward and I can tell you it is like being in Mexico. Real deplorable conditions, not good enough for fuckin rats!

NO ...my question, once again, is what makes
the poverty stricken in the State of LOUISIANA different from any other state in the USA!?!? This last Presidential Election
had people voting that had never voted in their lives ...that includes this state!!! Everyone was represented.
The poll thing goes without saying, it's like that in every state, as well!! My point is that it is no different here than
it is anywhere else ...but damn, when people want to vote they sure as hell find a way, don't they!?!

Curious about this myself...

Also, I know I'm slow and all, being from Louisiana , but did 7 and Sherrie imply that we're all racist in Louisiana?

lol ...evidently I, too, have dropped an IQ point or two just beathing this air!!! I'm not sure who is saying what, but
this thread makes it sound as though we are backwoods, oldhat and our niggers are suppressed , depressed and not allowed
to leave the plantation ...I let mine go into town ...you?!?!

[Rockindeano]

lol ...evidently I, too, have dropped an IQ point or two just beathing this air!!! I'm not sure who is saying what, but
this thread makes it sound as though we are backwoods, oldhat and our niggers are supressed , depressed and not allowed
to leave the plantation ...I let mine go into town ...you?!?!

I am actually hyperventilating from laughing so hard. Nice work. hahahaha, lol

[The Sushi Hunter]

Ooooh Yeah, the president is really pissed now. He says he's going to make BP pay. Fuck I'm scared!

I guess you would rather have us, the fucking taxpayer pay, for someone else's bullshit.

That's not what I'm refering to. I think it's funny how everyone has to get pissed before the president gets involved, and once involved comes off as though he's got a personal interest in it. Now he's got a personal interest in it because everyone is pissed off about it. But it took everyone getting pissed off for him to get involved. That's what I'm talking about.

[Rockindeano]

Ooooh Yeah, the president is really pissed now. He says he's going to make BP pay. Fuck I'm scared!

I guess you would rather have us, the fucking taxpayer pay, for someone else's bullshit.

That's not what I'm refering to. I think it's funny how everyone has to get pissed before the president gets involved, and once involved comes off as though he's got a personal interest in it. Now he's got a personal interest in it because everyone is pissed off about it. But it took everyone getting pissed off for him to get involved. That's what I'm talking about.

Good point. I personally think Obama has been awfully slow to react to this. He better "kick ass" in order to save his political hide.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Ooooh Yeah, the president is really pissed now. He says he's going to make BP pay. Fuck I'm scared!

I guess you would rather have us, the fucking taxpayer pay, for someone else's bullshit.

That's not what I'm refering to. I think it's funny how everyone has to get pissed before the president gets involved, and once involved comes off as though he's got a personal interest in it. Now he's got a personal interest in it because everyone is pissed off about it. But it took everyone getting pissed off for him to get involved. That's what I'm talking about.

Good point. I personally think Obama has been awfully slow to react to this. He better "kick ass" in order to save his political hide.

To be quite far about it all, most presidents are like that. There have been some real hard hitters out there who have taken action on their own but that's not been the case in the last 20 or so years. I think Regan was a hard hitter and would take action on his own, without the public first outcry.

[ohsherrie]

Our new Louisiana poll has a lot of data points to show how unhappy voters in the state are with Barack Obama's handling of the oil spill but one perhaps sums it up better than anything else- a majority of voters there think George W. Bush did a better job with Katrina than Obama's done dealing with the spill.

In Louisianna (?) and of course there wouldn't be any racial bias amongst those being polled would there? Not to mention the predominantly Republican base there. Polls mean nothing because they're designed to make the point that the pollsters are trying to make.

No offense but.....DUMBEST THING EVER STATED ON MR!

In what way is it dumb to say that the poll was taken among the republican base because they didn't want to hear what the democratic base had to say? No offense but If you don't think many of those polls are rigged that way you're either ignorant, naive or the dumbest person on MR.

[Rockindeano]

Ooooh Yeah, the president is really pissed now. He says he's going to make BP pay. Fuck I'm scared!

I guess you would rather have us, the fucking taxpayer pay, for someone else's bullshit.

That's not what I'm refering to. I think it's funny how everyone has to get pissed before the president gets involved, and once involved comes off as though he's got a personal interest in it. Now he's got a personal interest in it because everyone is pissed off about it. But it took everyone getting pissed off for him to get involved. That's what I'm talking about.

Good point. I personally think Obama has been awfully slow to react to this. He better "kick ass" in order to save his political hide.

To be quite far about it all, most presidents are like that. There have been some real hard hitters out there who have taken action on their own but that's not been the case in the last 20 or so years. I think Regan was a hard hitter and would take action on his own, without the public first outcry.

I agree with the Reagan take. I would also say Clinton was very good with dispatching FEMA so fast they were actually on the ground as the hurricanes came ashore.