Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

[RedWingFan]

Now, according to you and TNC, Man of Steel was a disappointment and an under-performer, which completely contradicts your point above in how WB would fold the DCCUniverse because they have no faith in their characters.

Aw, man! You just derailed their argument. They're back into their treehouse figuring out what else they can use.

Ummm no. MOS did underperform but it didn't land them in the Red. If it hadn't they'd be moving right now on MOS2. Instead, as I said long ago, they brought in Batman to pull the kryptonite dildo out of Supermans ass. Cash grab.

[verslibre]

Ummm no. MOS did underperform but it didn't land them in the Red. If it hadn't they'd be moving right now on MOS2. Instead, as I said long ago, they brought in Batman to pull the kryptonite dildo out of Supermans ass. Cash grab.

It underperformed compared to what? Did you expect it to gross one billion dollars or something? $291M domestic, $668M globally, and another $100M on DVD and Blu-ray. Look up the numbers, they're there.

That means it's grossed more than at least five Marvel Studios productions. It's hilarious to see the three of you overemphasize specific details to make your argument and ignore the ones that unravel it. You have no foothold. Wait for BvS to come out and we'll see how it does.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Now, according to you and TNC, Man of Steel was a disappointment and an under-performer, which completely contradicts your point above in how WB would fold the DCCUniverse because they have no faith in their characters.

Aw, man! You just derailed their argument. They're back into their treehouse figuring out what else they can use.

Ummm no. MOS did underperform but it didn't land them in the Red. If it hadn't they'd be moving right now on MOS2. Instead, as I said long ago, they brought in Batman to pull the kryptonite dildo out of Supermans ass. Cash grab.

It's amazing how delusion and stubbornness can get in the way to acknowledge what is actually happening here and what the goal was from the beginning. I can pull up countless number of quotes that connect every single factual dot from point A to point Z in how they were approaching Man of Steel's connection to the DCCinematic Universe, but every single time it's been ignored simply because you can't challenge the post.

Again, Man of Steel's purpose as a film was to not only build up Superman's universe, but also have the opportunity to introduce the Justice League through Man of Steel's world.

Batman V Superman is indeed a sequel to Man of Steel that happens to introduce others. It's the approach WB was hoping to accomplish and they followed through with that approach. They simply don't need to wait another 3-5 year gap to do Bat-solo films any longer to create a Justice League. Introducing this new Batman in Superman's world speaks for itself and is an added benefit in the time frame of lifting Justice League off its roots.

In Batman V Superman, everything from MoS will be addressed in the story and the consequences AND repercussions of the events of Man of Steel lead into this next chapter.

The story follows as such and Superman is the sole reason why these hero's will be coming out of the woodwork. It's all because of Man of Steel. Ben Affleck's Batman has been at it for a very long time. He's tired and weary, yet not seen. Superman is the reason for his public appearance because it's a sequel to Man of Steel.

They are killing two birds with one stone in not only furthering Superman's story and how his existence will forward his character, but it's also introducing a wider universe, which is what the purpose was the entire time in WB's vision.

It's no cash grab. There's a difference between a cash grab and knowing the best path to reach your overall goal for these characters. A cash grab indicates no effort to care about the properties involved with no further advancement. It's clear the purpose is Justice League and create new franchise's to build ontop of Superman and Batman.

BvS will have substance and storytelling. Delicate care has been acknowledge. They are guarding this movie with heavy surveillance.
Chris Terrio is going to turn this thing upside down and Snyder's visuals will make this film unbeatable.

I've posted this before:

5:41- 6:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExT5rqFqef0
Zack Snyder:

"What I tried to do with this movie was imply that there are DC characters within' this world, other DC characters. We don't see them, but there's evidence that they're out there. Just like you top down Superman, you sort of have to top down the rest of the DC characters. NOT TO SAY THAT THEY NEED THEIR OWN MOVIES, PERSAY, LIKE THE MARVEL MODEL, I'm not ruling that out, but I do think there's an OPPURTUNITY to how you introduce other DC characters. Whether that's a Justice League movie or a way to expand Superman's universe, that's the next conversation for me."

Now, put on your thinking caps, class and apply that STATEMENT to what actually transpired soon thereafter. Don't hurt yourselves.

[YoungJRNYfan]

For the record, I followed Man of Steel's production the entire way through for years. From beginning to end. I can't tell you how many interviews involving Snyder or any actor involved that wanted NOTHING but scoop on the Justice League. All everybody and their mother wanted to get around to, was Justice League.

Justice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice LeagueJustice League.

That's it.

If Man of Steel was such a disappointment or underperformer, Snyder left enough Easter Eggs in MoS to go directly for the TRUE cash grab, which was Justice League and many people thought Justice League was the next installment at WB, even if MoS made a billion at the Box Office.

Instead of going straight into Justice League and competing and worrying about Marvel, WB took the next logical step in the Man of Steel story and development of that universe and they announced Batman V Superman, which nobody expected (but me and v. Cavill talked about it occasionally before MoS about Batman.)

Man of Steel was all about making it known that above ALL else, Superman is an ALIEN and MoS truly was an alien invasion movie. Pure Sci-fi.

Now, things need to come back down to Earth, no-pun intended and WB wants to introduce DC heroes in the Man of Steel universe. What better way to come back down to Earth for the sequel than Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne? It's brilliant and the next logical step. They are world-building right and in their own way.

BvS is not the cash grab, Justice League would have been. Which all comes back around to WB having the rights to legendary characters that no matter what would of happened next, DC has the properties where everything would seem like a "cash grab." It's not their fault. It's just the reality of finally getting their SHIT together, and they're doing it. They truly are sitting on a gold mine with potential franchise's such as Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Man of Steel and eventually a new Bat-solo, let alone spin-offs. Gold mine.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's amazing how delusion and stubbornness can get in the way to acknowledge what is actually happening here and what the goal was from the beginning. I can pull up countless number of quotes that connect every single factual dot from point A to point Z in how they were approaching Man of Steel's connection to the DCCinematic Universe, but every single time it's been ignored simply because you can't challenge the post.

Here's a quote for you, YoungJrny, from your cinematic mancrush Snyder: "I gotta be honest, it definitely was a thing that… after Man of Steel finished and we started talking about what would be in the next movie, I started subtly mentioning that it would be cool if he faced Batman. In the first meeting, it was like, “Maybe Batman?” Maybe at the end of the second movie, some Kryptonite gets delivered to Bruce Wayne’s house or something. Like in a cryptic way, that’s the first time we see him. But then, once you say it out loud, right?"


In nearly every post, YoungJrny, you say "whose dick do I need to suck" to get inside info on Batman vs. Superman and then in the next post, you proceed to talk at exhaustive length as if you are Zack Snyder's personal pool boy. STFU already. You don't work for Warner Bros. Goyer and Snyder hinted at having future sequel plans, but by their own confession, there really was no grand design to get Batman immediately into the next MOS. That came about in later discussions. Yes, there was the Wayne satellite Easter egg, but that is more of an inside wink-wink to fans and NOT solid preconceived storytelling. Snyder and Co. are soo obviously just making it up as they go along. This smells like a bigger misconceived and cynical cash grab than Taken 2 or Blair Witch 2 or Blues Brothers 2000 COMBINED. Stop patronizingly trying to tell everyone that Warner Bros. is driven by 'doing right by the comic-reading fanbase' and not quarterly profits and spreadsheets and poll testing. Nobody is buying that. Personally, I plan to buy ten tickets to Captain America 3 just to do my part to bury this lumpy corn turd of a movie.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Here's a quote for you, YoungJrny, from your cinematic mancrush Snyder: "I gotta be honest, it definitely was a thing that… after Man of Steel finished and we started talking about what would be in the next movie, I started subtly mentioning that it would be cool if he faced Batman. In the first meeting, it was like, “Maybe Batman?” Maybe at the end of the second movie, some Kryptonite gets delivered to Bruce Wayne’s house or something. Like in a cryptic way, that’s the first time we see him. But then, once you say it out loud, right?"

In nearly every post, YoungJrny, you say "whose dick do I need to suck" to get inside info on Batman vs. Superman and then in the next post, you proceed to talk at exhaustive length as if you are Zack Snyder's personal pool boy. STFU already.

This is the Batman V Superman thread. It's to discuss the movie, which is the sole purpose of the thread. I know that's tough for you to comprehend.

Anyway, you claim WB are quote and quote "shoe-horning" Batman into the next installment to save face but the above quote from Snyder clearly shows they had the correct discussions outlining what was the next best thing for the story and development of the Man of Steel universe.

Snyder also said this that you purposely refuse to acknowledge:

"What I tried to do with this movie was imply that there are DC characters within' this world, other DC characters. We don't see them, but there's evidence that they're out there. Just like you top down Superman, you sort of have to top down the rest of the DC characters. NOT TO SAY THAT THEY NEED THEIR OWN MOVIES, PERSAY, LIKE THE MARVEL MODEL, I'm not ruling that out, but I do think there's an OPPORTUNITY to how you introduce other DC characters. Whether that's a Justice League movie or a way to expand Superman's universe, that's the next conversation for me."

That "next conversation" is obviously the quote you pulled from in the meeting rooms. The seed was planted. It was the matter of committing, which came only 30 days after the release of Man of Steel.

David S. Goyer admitted that on the set of Man of Steel, they started quietly talking about "what-if" in the next story. Reading between Snyder's lines, I know it's difficult, but his goal was always to include others while further developing Superman as a bridge to Justice League.

Zack Snyder:

I was in no rush to put Batman in the movie,” Snyder tells USA Today, “but on the other hand, it seemed organic the way our story was unfolding to start to feather him in.” Snyder, who had had hopes of putting Frank Miller’s seminole comic book The Dark Knight Returns to the big screen — in which Batman is far older than most cinematic iterations and comes out of retirement — also explains that what we’ll see from Batman’s mythology will feel fresh despite Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight trilogy. Additionally, Snyder explains, “it’s cooler to see a crusty old Batman beating the snot out of guys.”

Once you say, “What about Batman?” then you realize, “Okay, that’s a cool idea. What else?” I mean, what do you say after that? …But I’m not gonna say at all that when I took the job to do Man of Steel that I did it in a subversive way to get to Batman. I really believe that only after contemplating who could face Superman did Batman come into the picture.

Having "no rush" is the complete opposite of shoe-horning. Instead, they found Batman to be the perfect opportunity and the best overall direction to further the story, which happens to kill two birds with one stone. WB simply accomplished their goal. They finally got their vision and committed. Instead of rushing into Justice League to compete with Avengers, WB is giving us more development in the next logical storyline.

Personally, I plan to buy ten tickets to Captain America 3 just to do my part to bury this lumpy corn turd of a movie.

Hahahhaha, go for it! Now who sounds like the a virginal dork? Tool.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You claim WB are quote and quote "shoe-horning" Batman into the next installment to save face but the above quote from Snyder clearly shows they had the correct discussions outlining what was the next best thing for the story and development of the Man of Steel universe.

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction. Batman is not a natural outgrowth of the storytelling. And a few casual chats around the sandwich tray at the craft services table on-set between Goyer and Snyder DOES NOT constitute any sort of master plan or character arc.

Snyder also said this that you purposely refuse to acknowledge:

"What I tried to do with this movie was imply that there are DC characters within' this world, other DC characters. We don't see them, but there's evidence that they're out there.

I don't acknowledge it because it is a complete and total post-facto lie. Where is this implied? At what point does Perry White chomp on a cigar and say, "Another mutant freak blocking out my corner office view here at the Daily Planet. What the fuck is going on here?" In MOS, Clark/Supes exists in a world where flying freaks and uncanny mutants are clearly NOT the norm. Hence the reason he is reacted to hostilely by society. Isn't this obvious?

Hahahhaha, go for it! Now who sounds like the a virginal dork? Tool.

I think I sound like a man with excess capital to burn who takes pleasure in the misery of others. This movie will make Ben Affleck reflect on Gigli and think, "Man, those were the good ole days." Mark my prophetic words...

Instead of rushing into Justice League to compete with Avengers, WB is giving us more development in the next logical storyline.

Oh please. BvS already features no less than FOUR different superheroes. The whole thing is a rush job. With celebrity guest cameos by such D-list heroes like "Cyborg." The whole movie is beginning to sound like a bad rerun of Love Boat. Will Paul Lynde and Charo and Gavin Macleod show up too?

[YoungJRNYfan]

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction.

Speak for yourself. The massive opening night numbers and the announcement at San Diego Comic Con in 2013, only after a month in theaters, suggest otherwise from the WB brass. The loudmouths are the only ones heard, but Man of Steel was proven to be well-liked within the general public and satisfied WB to follow through.

Batman is not a natural outgrowth of the storytelling.

How isn't he? This is a darker and edgier take on Superman. Man of Steel was an alien invasion film and the next story, from a logical standpoint, should settle down and ground things even more. What better way to focus on Earth-based reactions to Man of Steel than Lex Luthor and Bruce Wayne? It certainly is a natural growth in response to Man of Steel.

In MOS, Clark/Supes exists in a world where flying freaks and uncanny mutants are clearly NOT the norm. Hence the reason he is reacted to hostilely by society. Isn't this obvious?

That's why there are references to other heroes in the form of Easter Eggs. Star Labs was referenced in Man of Steel, hence, Cyborg. The oil-rig scene; Aquaman. Bruce Waynes satellite; Batman. It's all there.

Just like in the comics, Superman was basically the first and successful mainstream superhero in pop culture that made it. Others simply followed. That's the angle their taking with Man of Steel and the set-up to the DCUniverse.

Superman's existence in Man of Steel and the first to come out publicly inspires others in hiding to come out of the woodwork and be heard. Superman may take the fall in the public eye, maybe say at the hands of Lex Luthor, but he's the inspiration for others whether it be good OR bad when it comes to the relationships involved.

Just who and what Superman and Batman will come up against in the movie remains relatively unknown besides Lex Luthor being in the film. Snyder says, “the fun of trying to figure out what to put in front of him that’s difficult.”

Cavill is definitely more comfortable in the role the second time around, says the director.

“We’ve both created this guy and we can push him around a little bit,” Snyder says. “The more time I spend with Henry, the more he’s Superman to me.”

The debuting heroes Superman meets will affect his perspective on Earth and on the ones he loves, and Snyder feels his convictions will be drawn into question as well following the aftermath of the destruction of Metropolis – which Ben Affleck’s Bruce Wayne and Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor are planning to rebuild at the beginning of the film.

Oh please. BvS already features no less than FOUR different superheroes. The whole thing is a rush job. With celebrity guest cameos by such D-list heroes like "Cyborg." The whole movie is beginning to sound like a bad rerun of Love Boat. Will Paul Lynde and Charo and Gavin Macleod show up too

Hawkeye and Black Widow sure were A, even B-lister's, weren't they? Victor Stone probably won't even be fleshed out as Cyborg. He is in parallel and reference to Star Labs. He will briefly take the place of Emil Hamilton from Man of Steel. It's not difficult. Only Wonder Woman will have a slightly bigger role, but not by much. I know that skull is thick, but it's the information we have when it comes to the cameo's involved.

I think I sound like a man with excess capital to burn who takes pleasure in the misery of others. This movie will make Ben Affleck reflect on Gigli and think, "Man, those were the good ole days." Mark my prophetic words...

So, you're an admitted troll. Don't worry, it was painfully obvious anyhow

[YoungJRNYfan]

[verslibre]

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction.

Source? The reaction to MoS was anything but tepid, and you already know what. Especially where the neck snap is concerned. Don't make shit up.

Snyder also said this that you purposely refuse to acknowledge:

I don't acknowledge it because it is a complete and total post-facto lie. Where is this implied? At what point does Perry White chomp on a cigar and say, "Another mutant freak blocking out my corner office view here at the Daily Planet. What the fuck is going on here?"

White does not need to emulate J. Jonah Jameson. But thanks for telling us you need to everything laid out in a flatly elementary manner. Maybe they can release DVD special editions with comic-style captions to supply with the additional exposition you require.

I think I sound like a man with excess capital to burn who takes pleasure in the misery of others.

We already know you enjoy that, but if you'd really like to burn off that excess capital, why not buy a hundred tickets? You know, make a statement. Or do you mean you'll go see it opening weekend, and nine more times at the Dollar Show where theatrical movies take their final bow months later?

Oh please. BvS already features no less than FOUR different superheroes.

So? CA:TWS had: Captain America, Black Widow, Falcon, and in his most expansive role yet, Nick Fury. Oh, yeah, Maria Hill helped shake things up, too. There were also FOUR antagonists: The Winter Soldier aka Bucky Barnes; Alexander Pierce/Hydra; Batroc; and Brock Rumlow, who is set up to become Crossbones.

Too many characters, or did it all make sense when you saw the movie? Don't use the stock "We already knew Cap/Widow/Fury" line.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Winter Soldier/Bucky was developed from the first Captain film. Fury has been developed gradually over the course of many films. Marvel put in the time and invested in alot of character exposition. No comparison with Snyder's cash grab. Stop hiding behind what Marvel IS and start defending what DC/MOS isn't. A blink and you miss it cameo of a Wayne enterprises satellite or whatever is a gimmicky throwaway. That's not setting the stage. You both sound like a gullible fools.

[verslibre]

Winter Soldier/Bucky was developed from the first Captain film. Fury has been developed gradually over the course of many films. Marvel put in the time and invested in alot of character exposition. No comparison with Snyder's cash grab. Stop hiding behind what Marvel IS and start defending what DC/MOS isn't. A blink and you miss it cameo of a Wayne enterprises satellite or whatever is a gimmicky throwaway. That's not setting the stage. You both sound like a gullible fools.

You sound like a tool. A shill. Both.

Batman is such a famous character, like Superman, that they're not giving him another solo movie until 2019, titled (as I guessed it) simply The Batman. Batman will no doubt figure largely into most if not every DC film, and after Nolan's ultra-successful trilogy there's no reason to re-origin him all over again so soon. It does NOT matter one iota that Nolan's films are not a part of the new universe, so don't bother mentioning it. It's not relevant.

Wonder Woman is a famous character. Been around for ages. Black Widow was virtually unknown to general audiences before Iron Man 2 brought her into the fold.

I see nothing wrong with BvS setting up Justice League. You may as well call GotG gimmicky because Thanos is in it.

Pretty pathetic that you and your cronies seem unwilling to give this film a chance. I'm glad I'm not limited to bias as you are. I'll be seeing both movies that weekend. That's how I roll, beeyotch.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You're no shill, my ass. You and YoungJrny slobber on Snyder's dong sounding like former SS members leaving a Leni Riefenstahl movie marathon somewhere in Brazil. Here's another prediction u can take to the bank, you will get a new Batman film earlier than 2019. After BvS, I wouldn't be surprised if Batman becomes WBs main focus instead of destined to fail crap like Shazam and Wonder Woman. Of course, u will be on here praising Snyder's all knowing, all seeing wisdom and how this was always part of his genius creative vision blah blah bullshit blah

[YoungJRNYfan]

Lol, stop with the analagies already. Christ, I can barely take you serious when it's every other sentence. Though, I didn't take you serious when claiming Green Lantern gave you hard nipples.

As for The Batman in 2019, I doubt Snyder will be attached. It's down the road, but I bet Snyder focuses on Superman and JL movies and who knows, maybe Affleck will be givin the keys to direct a solo Bat film. A possibility.

[RedWingFan]

It's amazing how delusion and stubbornness can get in the way to acknowledge what is actually happening here and what the goal was from the beginning.

Define beginning. The beginning, must be after way, way, way back in the day when those quotes from 2010 were made, that stated they weren't going to "mash these characters together". Right? When they were going to flesh out all these characters in their own movies because they're such GREAT characters. The beginning and the goal must be after that right?

The beginning must be after the suits at WB denied that they were going to rush a Justice League movie just because of the impending success of the Avengers. The fact is WB had a plan that they were too scared to implement by releasing these great character movies individually, but they scrapped that and went straight for the money shot.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they release B v. S, then JL, then JL2, etc... until they bleed it dry and don't even bother with the stand alones. What's the big deal about seeing WW when we've already seen her tight little ass in JL?

[RedWingFan]

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction.

Speak for yourself. The massive opening night numbers and the announcement at San Diego Comic Con in 2013, only after a month in theaters, suggest otherwise from the WB brass.

You can't deny TNC's point here. Even though you like to blame the huge 2nd week dropoff on Monsters University (like MOS's big target demographic was 3-8 year olds? ) It had a huge opening weekend, and had weak word of mouth. I'm sure you'll try to make the same excuses for it, but truly great movies don't need excuses.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Just saw Guardians. Didn't really work for me. Saw Lucy by Luc Besson and had a blast. Great Euro trash pop art cinema. Guardians, like alot of James Gunn movies, was smug and hollow spectacle. Those comparing it to Star Wars are high.

[verslibre]

Just saw Guardians. Didn't really work for me. Saw Lucy by Luc Besson and had a blast. Great Euro trash pop art cinema. Guardians, like alot of James Gunn movies, was smug and hollow spectacle. Those comparing it to Star Wars are high.

That's exactly what the trailers promote: an effects-intensive bubble gum space opera. I like stuff like that, because I enjoy cheese like Star Crash (LOL), but I'm not going to go see it and expect something deep. Interstellar comes out at the end of the year.

Lucy looks like a bloated hot mess, too. The trailers haven't hooked me. I saw Dawn of the Planet of the Apes last weekend and it was awesome.

[verslibre]

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction.

Speak for yourself. The massive opening night numbers and the announcement at San Diego Comic Con in 2013, only after a month in theaters, suggest otherwise from the WB brass.

You can't deny TNC's point here. Even though you like to blame the huge 2nd week dropoff on Monsters University (like MOS's big target demographic was 3-8 year olds? ) It had a huge opening weekend, and had weak word of mouth. I'm sure you'll try to make the same excuses for it, but truly great movies don't need excuses.

MoS target demographic was anybody with a pulse. And yes, it was sandwiched next to/between MU and WWZ. There are a lot of zombie fans out there who saw WWZ first and MoS after its opening weekend. I saw both. Not sure why you continue to insist a movie that grossed over $600M was a flop.

[verslibre]

Here's another prediction u can take to the bank, you will get a new Batman film earlier than 2019.

Nobody would complain. You act like 2019 is a long time away. It's not.

And man, you love phallic imagery and gay analogies, don't you?

[RedWingFan]

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction.

Speak for yourself. The massive opening night numbers and the announcement at San Diego Comic Con in 2013, only after a month in theaters, suggest otherwise from the WB brass.

MoS target demographic was anybody with a pulse. And yes, it was sandwiched next to/between MU and WWZ. There are a lot of zombie fans out there who saw WWZ first and MoS after its opening weekend. I saw both. Not sure why you continue to insist a movie that grossed over $600M was a flop.

Nobody in this post said anything about a "flop". I'll recap for you okay? Try to follow along.

1. TNC said, MOS had a "tepid and disappointing public reaction."

2. YoungJourney cited, "The massive opening night numbers..." as a counter-argument.

3. I pointed out that the huge 2nd week dropoff that followed that massive opening confirms TNC's argument. Because...

4. 40% of MOS's $291M domestic gross came on opening weekend with 116M!!! In other words, 40% bought tickets before they knew how good or bad the movie was.

5. Compare that with Raimi's Spiderman (a similiarly popular hero) which opened with a $114M weekend. That accounted for only 28% of its $403M domestic gross. Raimi's SM2 opened with an $88M opening which was only 28% of its $373M domestic gross. These movies had repeat viewings and strong public reaction that MOS did not have. TNC is spot on.

6. Raimi's bad SM3 grossed $151M on its opening weekend almost 45% of Its domestic gross $336M. If you use YoungJourneys biased thinking, these "massive opening night numbers" mean that this was the best "public reaction" of the 3. It doesn't. It means more people laid out their cash before actually seeing what turned out to be a disappointing movie. Was it a "flop"? No, it made money. Making money on opening weekend doesn't mean it was well received by audiences. MOS and SM3 were not, the majority of people didn't care to recommend it or see it again.

7. All of these movies pale in comparison to what's probaby the best word of mouth movie of all-time, The Sixth Sense. It grossed $26M on opening weekend only 9% of its $293M domestic gross. People recommended the hell out of that movie.

8. I just scrolled up and realized that The Sixth Sense grossed 2M dollars more domestically than MOS.

[YoungJRNYfan]

"The next best thing" only AFTER a tepid & disappointing public reaction.

Speak for yourself. The massive opening night numbers and the announcement at San Diego Comic Con in 2013, only after a month in theaters, suggest otherwise from the WB brass.

You can't deny TNC's point here. Even though you like to blame the huge 2nd week dropoff on Monsters University (like MOS's big target demographic was 3-8 year olds? ) It had a huge opening weekend, and had weak word of mouth. I'm sure you'll try to make the same excuses for it, but truly great movies don't need excuses.

Honestly, what is the point? We've talked about this numerous times and circled back around the "point" over and over again. It doesn't matter. We're way past that. Fact is, one month into Man of Steel's release they announced Batman V Superman, which no matter how much you want to slice and dice MoS as an underperformer like people like you aimlessly get off on, it won't change the fact that the studio got what it wanted out of Man of Steel to follow through their action plan to set up the DC Universe.

No matter how they got there, setting up the DC Universe was all up to the performance of Man of Steel. The studio felt comfortable enough to not only give us Batman V Superman as the next logical movie in the series INSTEAD of rushing into Justice League, but also announce Justice League under Zack Snyder's lead soon thereafter. All of your points are legitimately crushed by what actually followed to what we have today and it bothers you.

As for the demographic that took place as competition for Man of Steel, I don't make excuses for anything. Only people like you like to dismiss $668 million WW at the box office, a reboot with no momentum behind it mind-you, as a flop when it CLEARLY isn't.

I'm just pointing out that you can never underestimate the power of a family animation flick like MU. MoS's demograph was obviously set up for teenagers+ with the tone they've set, unlike Marvel's all around kid-attraction. DC is more of a violent, darker tone to their pallet and that went head to head with WWZ, America's newest sweetheart with the love of zombies.

MU and Despicable Me 2 factored into the competition, but it was WWZ that cut MoS's legs but the fact is, MoS stabilized after the big second week drop (as is the case with every big superhero movie nowadays) so with the HUGE second week drop, MoS still made big buck at $668 WW. That's a great number. Good enough to move forward under the same director, same creative team and same cast with MoS. Regardless of the numbers, that known FACT debunks your entire premise to the whole debate.

Only people like the all-of-a-sudden inferior complex of the Marvel fanboy get off on BO numbers when quite frankly, I'm happy with the numbers MoS brought in. It is bringing us BvS, the movie we've all wanted to see for decades, the dream match and judging by the looks of it, even with ALL of their great success, the fanbase of all Marvel-kiss ass'ers are getting a bit ancy. It certainly shows.

Honestly, can we write this in braille? I swear you're blind to your own hate.

[RedWingFan]

As for the demographic that took place as competition for Man of Steel, I don't make excuses for anything.

I'm just pointing out that you can never underestimate the power of a family animation flick like MU. MoS's demograph was obviously set up for teenagers+ with the tone they've set, unlike Marvel's all around kid-attraction. DC is more of a violent, darker tone to their pallet and that went head to head with WWZ, America's newest sweetheart with the love of zombies.

MU and Despicable Me 2 factored into the competition, but it was WWZ that cut MoS's legs

[YoungJRNYfan]

[YoungJRNYfan]

As for the demographic that took place as competition for Man of Steel, I don't make excuses for anything.

I'm just pointing out that you can never underestimate the power of a family animation flick like MU. MoS's demograph was obviously set up for teenagers+ with the tone they've set, unlike Marvel's all around kid-attraction. DC is more of a violent, darker tone to their pallet and that went head to head with WWZ, America's newest sweetheart with the love of zombies.

MU and Despicable Me 2 factored into the competition, but it was WWZ that cut MoS's legs

Excuse for what? $668 WW is a solid number. Nothing will convince me otherwise, especially when we are getting Batman V Superman. Henry Cavill is returning. Amy Adams is returning. Laurence Fishbourne is returning. Diane Lane is returning. Zack Snyder is returning (Snyder got his wing-man and trusted cinematographer back in Larry Fong as well; was not apart of Man of Steel). It doesn't matter if you're fixated on the same old, empty BO argument. If your argument held up, the above facts simply wouldn't be. #WINNING.

[RedWingFan]

... but the fact is, MoS stabilized after the big second week drop (as is the case with every big superhero movie nowadays)

Umm.. No the fact is, it didn't. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?pa ... an2012.htm
By week 3 the # of theaters dropped from 4,207 to 2,965!!!! 30% of the theaters bailed.

Wk 1, 156M -62.3
Wk 2. 59M -45.9
Wk 3. 31M -48.7
Wk 4. 16M -57.2
Wk 5. 7M -59
Wk 6. 2M -59.8
Wk 7. 1M -38

I wouldn't use the word stabalized, maybe steady as in steady decline.

For reference , Iron Man didn't fall to th 1M mark until week 11.
It opened to 4,105 theaters and by week 3 was opening in 4,154 theaters.
Iron Man was actually adding theaters by week 3.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?pa ... ronman.htm

What were you saying about "crushed"?

Thanks for starting this thread. It's by far my favorite. I like reading how happy you are with DC's "plan b" or "c" or whatever "plan" they're on now. It's funny.

[YoungJRNYfan]

You can edit your posts and highlight pointless things in red all you want (you really are a try-hard, aren't you?) With Guillermo del Toro’s Pacific Rim and Red 2 hitting theaters, let along MU, DM2 and WWZ, the inevitable loss of hundreds of theaters was in play. Even with those losses, $668 WW is still a SOLID number at the BO, ranking the third-biggest non-sequel superhero comic book film, and much of its $225m budget was paid for via product placements, not to mention the killing it's continuing to do in Blu-Ray; DVD sales.

Again, this argument has now become hallow and empty, especially now with the facts of the studio happy enough to not only bring the ENTIRE team back from MoS, but promise and commit to bigger things.

Thanks for starting this thread. It's by far my favorite. I like reading how happy you are with DC's "plan b" or "c" or whatever it is. It's funny.

When you fail, try and try again. It's funnier to see you try everything in your power to dampen the excitement of this film when not one ounce of it is working. It's great to watch you and TNC squirm at the thought that no matter how much amount of shit is flung, it's only ricocheting right back into your mouth. As a fan, this is something a LOT of people and fans wanted for a long, LONG time. Jokes on you, sir.

[RedWingFan]

As a fan, this is something a LOT of people and fans wanted for a long, LONG time. Jokes on you, sir.

There will be a lot of fools who throw down their money opening weekend to see it. Just like w/ MOS and SM3, you were probably there opening weekend for Superman Returns too weren't you? Joke was on you sir.

[YoungJRNYfan]

As a fan, this is something a LOT of people and fans wanted for a long, LONG time. Jokes on you, sir.

There will be a lot of fools who throw down their money opening weekend to see it. Just like w/ MOS and SM3, you were probably there opening weekend for Superman Returns too weren't you? Joke was on you sir.

It takes a fool to even post something so dumb. Please, even you couldn't help yourself posting the link to SDCC's Batman V Superman teaser. "HURRY BEFORE IT'S TAKIN DOWN! TEE-HEE." Keep going. Unlike yourself, I can give two-shits what you spend your money on. Who knows, maybe this will up TNC's ticket count to 11! Oh, no! Obsession running wild.

[verslibre]

Nobody in this post said anything about a "flop". I'll recap for you okay? Try to follow along.

"Try to follow along." How adorable. Somebody is following somebody else's playbook.

1. TNC said, MOS had a "tepid and disappointing public reaction."

Which I already responded to.

2. YoungJourney cited, "The massive opening night numbers..." as a counter-argument.

3. I pointed out that the huge 2nd week dropoff that followed that massive opening confirms TNC's argument. Because...

4. 40% of MOS's $291M domestic gross came on opening weekend with 116M!!! In other words, 40% bought tickets before they knew how good or bad the movie was.

Iron Man 3 made a shit-ton of money and it sucks. It's easily explained: RDJ + first post-Avengers film + misleading trailers that suggested a radically storyline. Presto. Then you get in the theater, and one stupid thing after another happens. It didn't make money because the same person saw it 4-5 times, it made money because a gazillion people went and saw it once. Many of those people were the same idiots who complained there "wasn't enough Batman" in TDKR, never mind that Stark is barely inside the suit in the third film of the trilogy.

In spite of having to again reboot a character that has been in no fewer than FIVE theatrical releases, MoS obviously made an impression if it generated $100M on DVD. Sidestep that item all you like, but it doesn't negate it.

5. Compare that with Raimi's Spiderman (a similiarly popular hero) which opened with a $114M weekend. That accounted for only 28% of its $403M domestic gross. Raimi's SM2 opened with an $88M opening which was only 28% of its $373M domestic gross. These movies had repeat viewings and strong public reaction that MOS did not have. TNC is spot on.

You guys are trying too hard. I could also list off a bunch of movies that made more than MoS. Spider-Man is one of Marvel's most popular characters and that was the first time they made a movie with him. Its success was deserved. Keep in mind that we were between Batman sagas at that point in time and the only other franchise that had popped up was X-Men. It's not wrong to offer something different. That's exactly where Snyder's coming from. Which other director would've filmed a nice long opening segment and Krypton because he was inspired by the adult science-fantasy comics magazine Heavy Metal that he read as a kid. I also read Heavy Metal in the '80s, so it made sense. He also brought to the table what had been missing from previous Superman films: epic battles with like-powered foes with a modern FX palette.*

*Notice I said MODERN, so please do not do the obvious thing and cite Superman II.

6. Raimi's bad SM3 grossed $151M on its opening weekend almost 45% of Its domestic gross $336M. If you use YoungJourneys biased thinking, these "massive opening night numbers" mean that this was the best "public reaction" of the 3. It doesn't. It means more people laid out their cash before actually seeing what turned out to be a disappointing movie. Was it a "flop"? No, it made money. Making money on opening weekend doesn't mean it was well received by audiences. MOS and SM3 were not, the majority of people didn't care to recommend it or see it again.

TNC has referred to it as a flop before, and you've become his Yes-man. I've already stated that a lot of people were turned off by the neck snap. If MoS had adhered to Superman's decades-old boy scout shtick, it would've made a lot more money. You must be reading every other post. Try to read ALL of them. In other words, try to follow along.

8. I just scrolled up and realized that The Sixth Sense grossed 2M dollars more domestically than MOS.

Too bad M. Night's great track record ended with the next movie he made. You guys are trying way too hard.