MR

Looks like No.3 (and No 1 seed candidate) BYU's starting forward and leading rebounder, Brandon Davies, was not dismissed from the basketball team for your typical college athlete malfeasance. Nope... he was suspended for... * drum roll please **

Having sex!

With a hooker you ask? No

With a lady with a penis you ask? No

In public you ask? No


He merely had sex with his girlfriend.

Apparently, that violated BYU's code of conduct. What a backward ass thing. Fuckin crazy mormons.

Someone I know was just livid last week because...........his daughter was being baptized as a mormon!

Nothing they could say or do would stop it.

It's in the Code of Conduct in order to attend BYU so he knew the requirments when he was accepted to the school.

sad for the basketball team, but he knew the rules when he agreed to play there. He should have considered his actions better---or attended a different university. I may not like the outcome, but you have to give the school credit for sticking to their rules knowing how much this may cost them in the NCAA tournament. Rules are rules, and when you sign an agreement to play for the school, you know what is required.

hope he honor coded the livin' SHIT out of her....

This is a positive example all the way around. The university stuck by it's honor code even though they significantly damaged their chances of success on the court.

Secondly, he did not get caught. He had sex with his girlfriend and had remorse that he had broken the honor code and confessed to school officials and he was removed from the basketball team. He is still fighting to remain a student at the school to continue his education.

Not much to criticize here.

honesty is not always the best policy.most of the time but not all

Hollywood wrote:This is a positive example all the way around. The university stuck by it's honor code even though they significantly damaged their chances of success on the court.

Secondly, he did not get caught. He had sex with his girlfriend and had remorse that he had broken the honor code and confessed to school officials and he was removed from the basketball team. He is still fighting to remain a student at the school to continue his education.

Not much to criticize here.

buyers remorse? was it an escort?

There are many famous Mormons, like Orrin Hatch, Amy Adams, Gladys Knight, SheDaisy, The 5 Browns...

...Traci Lords.

If they purport to be a religious institution, then they obviously have a standard of conduct. If a student violates the standard of conduct, which they already know about and have agreed to, it shouldn't be a surprise to them or anyone else if they suffer the consequences for violating it. I'm not a Mormon and don't agree with their theology but this doesn't bother me in the slightest.

verslibre wrote:There are many famous Mormons, like Orrin Hatch, Amy Adams, Gladys Knight, SheDaisy, The 5 Browns...

...Traci Lords.

Traci Lords?? are you kidding me?

I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

Clasicrockldy wrote:

verslibre wrote:There are many famous Mormons, like Orrin Hatch, Amy Adams, Gladys Knight, SheDaisy, The 5 Browns...

...Traci Lords.

Traci Lords?? are you kidding me?

Not only did she violate the code of conduct over and over again, she also documented her violations !

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

You think teaching abstinence is "garbage?" I can respect that you don't agree with the rules but if everyone actually practiced abstinence until marriage and remained faithful, there would be no unwanted pregnancy and no STDs. Sure, that's probably an unattainable goal but it's the truth so why not teach people how to truly protect themselves?

Angel wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

You think teaching abstinence is "garbage?" I can respect that you don't agree with the rules but if everyone actually practiced abstinence until marriage and remained faithful, there would be no unwanted pregnancy and no STDs. Sure, that's probably an unattainable goal but it's the truth so why not teach people how to truly protect themselves?

Part of the problem is that society in general puts so much pressure on kids to have sex in the first place. Obviously, they're responsible for their own behavior but it doesn't help when sex is pushed on you from so many different angles.

What it comes down to is that BYU has the right to set their own standards of conduct. If other people don't like it, their opinion doesn't matter anyway.

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

Sorry to hear that you feel that this rule of conduct for a religious university is bassackwards, and for you it doesn't have a place in this world. There is a place for it. And there are possibly millions of kids who abide by that, whether they are at BYU, or any other university. It is what the bible teaches. Abstinence before marriage. What is so wrong with that? I wouldn't doubt that other religious universities have a similar code of conduct.

I respect that you disagree with this rule or abstinence in general. I respectfully disagree with you that it does have a place in this world today.

Angel, I totally agree with what you said!

Clasicrockldy wrote:

verslibre wrote:There are many famous Mormons, like Orrin Hatch, Amy Adams, Gladys Knight, SheDaisy, The 5 Browns...

...Traci Lords.

Traci Lords?? are you kidding me?

Relax, we're all sinners!!

Angel wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

You think teaching abstinence is "garbage?" I can respect that you don't agree with the rules but if everyone actually practiced abstinence until marriage and remained faithful, there would be no unwanted pregnancy and no STDs. Sure, that's probably an unattainable goal but it's the truth so why not teach people how to truly protect themselves?

Nat, I think you know I am a very conservative guy. I disapprove of people getting drunk and fucking random people they take home from the bar. I really do. I don't enjoy our pop culture's marginalization of what should be serious topics of sex, marriage, and relationships. I think it's laudable to teach kids to not have sex with the first person they come across, and certainly not to try and match Wilt's record for sexual partners.

But, I also think it's pretty unreasonable to adhere to a long-antiquated abstinence before marriage concept. For most young people today, getting married right out of high school certainly isn't an option. You can only flick the vibrator switch or choke the chicken so many times into your 20s before you're going to need the sexual satisfaction that can only come from having a real-life sexual partner (ask Saint John about his blow-up dolls... he tells me they're just not the same). That's just simple, honest to goodness human biology at work. The trick is teaching/encouraging people of all ages to try and channel that natural biological urge into something respectable so that it's exercised in the context of a loving relationship, and not the after-product of 10 cheap tequila shots at a bar.

It can be done. I'm 24, I've grown up right in the eye of this cultural storm, and I haven't turned out like a Jersey Shore cast reject. I have not had many sexual partners, and they've always been in the context of a relationship that I was serious about. That's probably because the people who loved me encouraged me to make sensible choices, but never interfered with my life and my choices in such a tyrannical manner.

In the end, there are choices to be made, and telling an 18+ year old college kid s/he's has to choose between ignoring totally natural human biology is repugnant to me.

Finally, I can assure you that (unfortunately) infidelity, unwanted pregnancies, and STDs all happen in the context of purportedly "loving" marriages. I think marriage is a wonderful institution that's been denigrated to the point of meaning nothing to a lot of people, but not to me. But, it's not a panacea for moral bankruptcy as our current society unfortunately reflects (just think John Edwards when he's not chasing ambulances or getting $1 million haircuts).

conversationpc wrote:

Angel wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

You think teaching abstinence is "garbage?" I can respect that you don't agree with the rules but if everyone actually practiced abstinence until marriage and remained faithful, there would be no unwanted pregnancy and no STDs. Sure, that's probably an unattainable goal but it's the truth so why not teach people how to truly protect themselves?

Part of the problem is that society in general puts so much pressure on kids to have sex in the first place. Obviously, they're responsible for their own behavior but it doesn't help when sex is pushed on you from so many different angles.

What it comes down to is that BYU has the right to set their own standards of conduct. If other people don't like it, their opinion doesn't matter anyway.

Yes, they have that right. I just think it's pretty unfortunate that a young adult man has become a national spectacle, had his name splashed across the headlines, his team seriously ruined, and his chances of furthering his education placed in serious jeopardy because he had sex in the context of a relationship. My moral conservatism has limits, and the action and consequence here simply do not jive, whatever the university's policy may be.

conversationpc wrote:

Angel wrote:

Ehwmatt wrote:I don't have a problem with the abstract fact that he broke the school's rules, therefore he's suspended from team/possibly expelled. I like rules. But, it's just ass backwards.

I'm a pretty conservative guy morally, but I just don't see how you expect MOST 18-22 year olds to abstain from sex altogether, particularly if they are in a serious relationship. Sure, there's probably some religious kids who have amazing will power, but the vast majority of them don't. Biology doesn't work that way. And these no sex rules arose from an extinct culture where people got married in their mid to late teens. We're biologically programmed to seek sexual satisfaction in that age range. I really don't see how anyone can deny that.

There's no place for this kinda garbage in a world where many people today don't start any kind of professional or career life until their early to mid twenties (and hence generally don't get married until they have some means of support/stability). I am a very principled guy, I went to college and went out and had a good time, but I have never slept with a girl on a one night stand. But these kinda rules don't even feel close to right to me.

Yes, they're a private institution and it's their prerogative to make rules and enforce them as they see fit. Doesn't mean I have to approve the substance of the rule just because it exists. It's fucking dumb.

You think teaching abstinence is "garbage?" I can respect that you don't agree with the rules but if everyone actually practiced abstinence until marriage and remained faithful, there would be no unwanted pregnancy and no STDs. Sure, that's probably an unattainable goal but it's the truth so why not teach people how to truly protect themselves?

Part of the problem is that society in general puts so much pressure on kids to have sex in the first place. Obviously, they're responsible for their own behavior but it doesn't help when sex is pushed on you from so many different angles.

What it comes down to is that BYU has the right to set their own standards of conduct. If other people don't like it, their opinion doesn't matter anyway.

Good choice of words and I might have said something different.

Matt, I respect your position on the subject. Having said that, the Mormon church does not agree with you. They teach abstinence before marriage. All students that go to BYU know this is the expectation and they accept it. If they share your views then they should not attend BYU. People make mistakes and there is a process that students can go through to get back into school if they do violate the honor code.

Ehwmatt wrote:Yes, they have that right. I just think it's pretty unfortunate that a young adult man has become a national spectacle, had his name splashed across the headlines, his team seriously ruined, and his chances of furthering his education placed in serious jeopardy because he had sex in the context of a relationship. My moral conservatism has limits, and the action and consequence here simply do not jive, whatever the university's policy may be.

I actually do agree with you, this shouldn't have become a media spectacle but I am fairly certain that it was not the school that released exactly why he was released from the team.

Ehwmatt wrote:Nat, I think you know I am a very conservative guy. I disapprove of people getting drunk and fucking random people they take home from the bar. I really do. I don't enjoy our pop culture's marginalization of what should be serious topics of sex, marriage, and relationships. I think it's laudable to teach kids to not have sex with the first person they come across, and certainly not to try and match Wilt's record for sexual partners.

But, I also think it's pretty unreasonable to adhere to a long-antiquated abstinence before marriage concept. For most young people today, getting married right out of high school certainly isn't an option. You can only flick the vibrator switch or choke the chicken so many times into your 20s before you're going to need the sexual satisfaction that can only come from having a real-life sexual partner (ask Saint John about his blow-up dolls... he tells me they're just not the same). That's just simple, honest to goodness human biology at work. The trick is teaching/encouraging people of all ages to try and channel that natural biological urge into something respectable so that it's exercised in the context of a loving relationship, and not the after-product of 10 cheap tequila shots at a bar.

It can be done. I'm 24, I've grown up right in the eye of this cultural storm, and I haven't turned out like a Jersey Shore cast reject. I have not had many sexual partners, and they've always been in the context of a relationship that I was serious about. That's probably because the people who loved me encouraged me to make sensible choices, but never interfered with my life and my choices in such a tyrannical manner.

In the end, there are choices to be made, and telling an 18+ year old college kid s/he's has to choose between ignoring totally natural human biology is repugnant to me.

Finally, I can assure you that (unfortunately) infidelity, unwanted pregnancies, and STDs all happen in the context of purportedly "loving" marriages. I think marriage is a wonderful institution that's been denigrated to the point of meaning nothing to a lot of people, but not to me. But, it's not a panacea for moral bankruptcy as our current society unfortunately reflects (just think John Edwards when he's not chasing ambulances or getting $1 million haircuts).

Tyrannical? Oh Puleeze! There are parents out there who, religious or not, would want their children to abstain from sex until marriage. In this case, the dude KNEW the code of conduct for BYU, and still he went ahead and broke it. It wasn't forced on him in a tyrannical manner.

I don't feel sorry for him if that's the school's "code" and people know that going in, AND he is the one who let it out, they didn't get caught. The one I feel sorry for is his girlfriend, who now gets to be pubically embarassed by something private between two people that should remain private. The guy is an idiot.

Clasicrockldy wrote:

verslibre wrote:There are many famous Mormons, like Orrin Hatch, Amy Adams, Gladys Knight, SheDaisy, The 5 Browns...

...Traci Lords.

Traci Lords?? are you kidding me?

She was born Norma Kuzma, and yes, her family were (are?) Mormons.

She sure has a great set of knockers.

You know. On her door.

Clasicrockldy wrote:Tyrannical? Oh Puleeze! There are parents out there who, religious or not, would want their children to abstain from sex until marriage. In this case, the dude KNEW the code of conduct for BYU, and still he went ahead and broke it. It wasn't forced on him in a tyrannical manner.

Did they throw an orange jumpsuit and shackles on 'im and march him into the "Bishop's Court"?

Melissa wrote:I don't feel sorry for him if that's the school's "code" and people know that going in, AND he is the one who let it out, they didn't get caught. The one I feel sorry for is his girlfriend, who now gets to be pubically embarassed by something private between two people that should remain private. The guy is an idiot.

I agree!! He knew the rules, he broke the rules, HE should suffer the consequences ...carry that cross, boy!!
However, as Matty has pointed out, we are human and Mormons are apparently
no less human than the rest of us ...

Michigan Girl wrote:

Melissa wrote:I don't feel sorry for him if that's the school's "code" and people know that going in, AND he is the one who let it out, they didn't get caught. The one I feel sorry for is his girlfriend, who now gets to be pubically embarassed by something private between two people that should remain private. The guy is an idiot.

I agree!! He knew the rules, he broke the rules, HE should suffer the consequences ...carry that cross, boy!!
However, as Matty has pointed out, we are human and Mormons are apparently
no less human than the rest of us ...

I don't personally agree with any school or religious institution telling people what to their lives and their bodies, BUT if this is the school's policy and this boy knew that at the start then really, the bottom line is he broke a school rule. Same as if there were a rule about drinking on campus, and he did it anyway, or whatever else.

But the easy solution is, if the school rule is don't do something, and you do it, then keep that shit quiet, DUH, *NOT* WINNING.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Michigan Girl wrote:

Melissa wrote:I don't feel sorry for him if that's the school's "code" and people know that going in, AND he is the one who let it out, they didn't get caught. The one I feel sorry for is his girlfriend, who now gets to be pubically embarassed by something private between two people that should remain private. The guy is an idiot.

I agree!! He knew the rules, he broke the rules, HE should suffer the consequences ...carry that cross, boy!!
However, as Matty has pointed out, we are human and Mormons are apparently
no less human than the rest of us ...

I don't personally agree with any school or religious institution telling people what to their lives and their bodies, BUT if this is the school's policy and this boy knew that at the start then really, the bottom line is he broke a school rule. Same as if there were a rule about drinking on campus, and he did it anyway, or whatever else.

But the easy solution is, if the school rule is don't do something, and you do it, then keep that shit quiet, DUH, *NOT* WINNING.

lol ...perhaps it's also against the religion of Mormons to deceive?!?!
Again, I agree w/respecting the rules ...but please, tell me what religion endorses/allows sex before marriage?!?!