Revolving doors in the music world

by **Zan** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:47 pm

With all this talk about musical chairs in the musician world, it got me thinking about Styx and all the personel changes they've gone through over the last 20 years. I know we've talked about this before (to death), and I'm aware of most everyone's stance on the issue, but whenever I think of Dennis & Gowan sharing a stage, it makes so much sense...for Dennis' band. Think about it: Dennis was rejected from Styx in 1999, Glen left on his own in 2003, Hank Horton's been playing with Dennis for years now, after his stint with James Young - we're already halfway there, people!

Let's take it a step further: I've heard several people complain about Kyle's playing. Why not get Todd in there after Styx is washed up (let's face it - people have been saying they're going under for years now, it's bound to happen evetually, right? lol). And of course, everyone's been wishing for a Tommy/Denny reunion in the near future. We all know that Dennis enjoys being a front man more than he enjoys being behind the keyboards these days, and what a better person to play the keys while Denny enjoys the spotlight than Lawrence (not to mention that right now, Denny is hot in parts of Canada, and Gowan has been hot in Canada for a long time)? Chuck could make appearances like he does now, and JY - - well, they'll either work it out or they won't, but either way, Dennis could have his own little new version of Styx on tour with him.

You'd get A Criminal Mind, for the Canadian fans (eh?), all of Denny's vocals, Tommy & Glen too, plus, think of the harmonizing with the 4 of them! Yeehaw. And Suzie can go back to managing the band instead of being a backup singer.

We could get some of Styx's old crew members too, just to make it authentic. They could call themselves the Artists Formerly KNown as Styx, or ultimately, The Mythological Rejects. Whatta ya think? :twisted:

by **kipthekid** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:51 pm

by **Zan** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:07 am

kipthekid wrote:nm

ik

by **Ash** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:31 am

well, I don't see this happening in a million years - but to entertain your premise - I think Glen would have to completely replace JY on guitars. JY could be no part of it. Of course, with his stake in the name of the band, I doubt it being allowed without him

They could always make a different band too (which I think is a better idea - makes it fresher).

But Gowan and Dennis being on the same stage?

I don't think there is a stadium in america that would fit all of these egos.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:16 am

Ash wrote:
But Gowan and Dennis being on the same stage?

I don't think there is a stadium in america that would fit all of these egos.

"Never Say Never" LOL

Nothing with DDY and Styx will surprise me anymore. DDY and Gowan talked before when Gowan opened for Styx in 1997 in Montreal and Quebec, not sure after those dates.

by **Zan** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:28 am

Ash wrote:They could always make a different band too (which I think is a better idea - makes it fresher).

But Gowan and Dennis being on the same stage?

I don't think there is a stadium in america that would fit all of these egos.

Well, I did say they could themselves "Artists Formerly Known as Styx," not STYX.

Obviously, you've never met Gowan. He about the most laid-back professional musician there is. (Or, did you mean us fans that go to see the show?) ;-)

I only brought it up because Dennis has mentioned not wanting to be behind the keys so much anymore, and with the heavy emphasis on keyboards in Styx's music, SOMEONE has to do it. So why not Gowan? No one really seems to have a problem with his playing or stage presence, and nearly half the Styx payroll has changed sides already as it is. ;-)

I'm with Suite - nothing about this band surprises me anymore.

by **Ash** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:07 am

Zan wrote:
Ash wrote:They could always make a different band too (which I think is a better idea - makes it fresher).

But Gowan and Dennis being on the same stage?

I don't think there is a stadium in america that would fit all of these egos.

Well, I did say they could themselves "Artists Formerly Known as Styx," not STYX.

Obviously, you've never met Gowan. He about the most laid-back professional musician there is. (Or, did you mean us fans that go to see the show?)

I only brought it up because Dennis has mentioned not wanting to be behind the keys so much anymore, and with the heavy emphasis on keyboards in Styx's music, SOMEONE has to do it. So why not Gowan? No one really seems to have a problem with his playing or stage presence, and nearly half the Styx payroll has changed sides already as it is.

I'm with Suite - nothing about this band surprises me anymore.

I don't EVER see it happening where JY is involved. And if it does happen and JY is involved - then I will write them all off.

by **Rockwriter** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:18 am

Zan wrote:
Ash wrote:They could always make a different band too (which I think is a better idea - makes it fresher).

But Gowan and Dennis being on the same stage?

I don't think there is a stadium in america that would fit all of these egos.

Well, I did say they could themselves "Artists Formerly Known as Styx," not STYX.

Obviously, you've never met Gowan. He about the most laid-back professional musician there is. (Or, did you mean us fans that go to see the show?)

I only brought it up because Dennis has mentioned not wanting to be behind the keys so much anymore, and with the heavy emphasis on keyboards in Styx's music, SOMEONE has to do it. So why not Gowan? No one really seems to have a problem with his playing or stage presence, and nearly half the Styx payroll has changed sides already as it is.

I'm with Suite - nothing about this band surprises me anymore.

I'm with you here . . . believe it or not I can see Gowan and Dennis together in Styx as something that might be viable. In 1996 Dennis actually wanted to front the band more and hire a keyboard player, something that Tommy talked him out of. Tommy had tried and tried to find a keyboard player who could play Dennis' parts, and failed miserably if you listen to the live versions of his solo band playing Styx songs. "Fooling Yourself" was utterly wretched! So yeah, I could see a compromise scenario in which Dennis played the parts he chose to, and let Gowan handle some of the major load. It's not like Dennis has anything against Gowan. Why should he?

You made an interesting point, too . . . the major players here have all switched sides at one point or another. Tommy was odd man out, now he leads the band. JY was partners with Dennis, now he's partners with Tommy. Glen works with everyone involved in various permutations. I think at this point, everything's up for grabs, LOL.

Sterling

by **Rockwriter** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:22 am

Ash wrote:
Zan wrote:
Ash wrote:They could always make a different band too (which I think is a better idea - makes it fresher).

But Gowan and Dennis being on the same stage?

I don't think there is a stadium in america that would fit all of these egos.

Well, I did say they could themselves "Artists Formerly Known as Styx," not STYX.

Obviously, you've never met Gowan. He about the most laid-back professional musician there is. (Or, did you mean us fans that go to see the show?)

I only brought it up because Dennis has mentioned not wanting to be behind the keys so much anymore, and with the heavy emphasis on keyboards in Styx's music, SOMEONE has to do it. So why not Gowan? No one really seems to have a problem with his playing or stage presence, and nearly half the Styx payroll has changed sides already as it is.

I'm with Suite - nothing about this band surprises me anymore.

I don't EVER see it happening where JY is involved. And if it does happen and JY is involved - then I will write them all off.

Don't kid yourself. JY is a realist and a consensus builder. If the consensus was that this would be the best move, he'd be in. What else is he going to do, let it go on without him? That would make no sense. I'm sure he hopes it won't come to that, LOL, but if it did then he would reluctantly get on board . . . as he has done for the vast majoroity of the band's career. Why shouldn't he? He has as much invested in Styx as anyone.

Sterling

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:50 am

Ash wrote:

I don't EVER see it happening where JY is involved. And if it does happen and JY is involved - then I will write them all off.

Exactly!!! JY wouldn't be involved at all, IMO.

by **cinj** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:21 am

Zan wrote:With all this talk about musical chairs in the musician world, it got me thinking about Styx and all the personel changes they've gone through over the last 20 years. I know we've talked about this before (to death), and I'm aware of most everyone's stance on the issue, but whenever I think of Dennis & Gowan sharing a stage, it makes so much sense...for Dennis' band. Think about it: Dennis was rejected from Styx in 1999, Glen left on his own in 2003, Hank Horton's been playing with Dennis for years now, after his stint with James Young - we're already halfway there, people!

Let's take it a step further: I've heard several people complain about Kyle's playing. Why not get Todd in there after Styx is washed up (let's face it - people have been saying they're going under for years now, it's bound to happen evetually, right? lol). And of course, everyone's been wishing for a Tommy/Denny reunion in the near future. We all know that Dennis enjoys being a front man more than he enjoys being behind the keyboards these days, and what a better person to play the keys while Denny enjoys the spotlight than Lawrence (not to mention that right now, Denny is hot in parts of Canada, and Gowan has been hot in Canada for a long time)? Chuck could make appearances like he does now, and JY - - well, they'll either work it out or they won't, but either way, Dennis could have his own little new version of Styx on tour with him.

You'd get A Criminal Mind, for the Canadian fans (eh?), all of Denny's vocals, Tommy & Glen too, plus, think of the harmonizing with the 4 of them! Yeehaw. And Suzie can go back to managing the band instead of being a backup singer.

We could get some of Styx's old crew members too, just to make it authentic. They could call themselves the Artists Formerly KNown as Styx, or ultimately, The Mythological Rejects. Whatta ya think?

Hey, why not. YES pulled this off about a decade ago - I think with 8 people who were members of the band at some point. The CD was appropriately called "Union". Actually, I thought the CD left a lot to be desired, but they did have an impressive tour with all 8 members - it was "in the round" with a revolving stage.

But, you have to wonder - would that "alienate a large core of fans"? Because if so, the great J.Y. wouldn't go for it. (sorry, I'm trying to be humorous and I'm failing)

Cinj.

by **LordofDaRing** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:10 am

I saw that tour with Yes, it was actually very good. So was the Boston tour that had some of the same elements to it.

by **cittadeeno23** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:23 am

I am pretty sure that if this bizzare line-up did take place, Dennis would insist that Larry gets rid of the spinning keyboards AND also plays them FACING the keys!!

Just a hunch!

by **yogi** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:31 am

Zan,

I agree with you 100%. I actually thought that I had written this a few months back. Froy ripped my idea because of Gowan. If I remember correctly you ripped it because of?????? But what the hell your writing of the situation sounds better anyway.

Why didnt I copyWRIGHT my idea?????

by **stmonkeys** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:50 am

cittadeeno23 wrote:I am pretty sure that if this bizzare line-up did take place, Dennis would insist that Larry gets rid of the spinning keyboards AND also plays them FACING the keys!!

Just a hunch!

what??? and spoil the view????

by **Grotelul** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:10 pm

cittadeeno23 wrote:I am pretty sure that if this bizzare line-up did take place, Dennis would insist that Larry gets rid of the spinning keyboards AND also plays them FACING the keys!!

Just a hunch!

Of course...Dennis wouldn't want anyone stealing his spotlight.

by **DarwinNebraska** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:39 am

Todd has very few nice things to say about Dennis in Sterling's book so I don't see why Todd would work with Dennis in any project that doesn't have the title "Styx".

As far as another keyboard player, what's Dennis going to do during the songs he doesn't sing... stand there and shake his ass?

by **Zan** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:08 am

DarwinNebraska wrote:Todd has very few nice things to say about Dennis in Sterling's book so I don't see why Todd would work with Dennis in any project that doesn't have the title "Styx".

As far as another keyboard player, what's Dennis going to do during the songs he doesn't sing... stand there and shake his ass?

What ass?

He can sing backup, play accordian, tambourine, or...even another keyboard! *gah*
REO Speedwagon (as well as many, many other bands) has a piano and a synth on stage, why not Styx. It makes for a great sound.

Glen didn't have a lotta nice things to say about Dennis at one time, and look where he's at now.

by **blt man** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:21 am

[quote="DarwinNebraska"]Todd has very few nice things to say about Dennis in Sterling's book so I don't see why Todd would work with Dennis in any project that doesn't have the title "Styx".
[quote]

This is what I got from Sterlings book re: Todd and Dennis. Dennis treated him fine and never had any run ins with him. But, Todd did not like that (1) Dennis would not commit to touring more for the Grand Illusion anniversary tour so the tour ended too early for Todd, and (2) did not like that the man would not record anywhere but his house (and would not leave a bitter cold Chicago to record a little in California). Not really sure there is any more there... Singing the praises of the current line-up should be expected.

by **DarwinNebraska** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:22 am

blt man wrote:This is what I got from Sterlings book re: Todd and Dennis. Dennis treated him fine and never had any run ins with him. But, Todd did not like that (1) Dennis would not commit to touring more for the Grand Illusion anniversary tour so the tour ended too early for Todd, and (2) did not like that the man would not record anywhere but his house (and would not leave a bitter cold Chicago to record a little in California). Not really sure there is any more there... Singing the praises of the current line-up should be expected.

Todd was very negative on Dennis... he didn't like how Dennis would get upset at certain things.

Hey, that's what is it when you're a perfectionist, but nobody can argue with the results.

They appear to need more of that now although I do find it funny that Tommy is now accused of the very same things that Dennis was accused of.

by **cittadeeno23** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:03 am

I believe as far as the Styx legacy goes, Dennis deserves a lot more of the spotlight than Larry does!

by **styxfanNH** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:19 am

cittadeeno23 wrote:I believe as far as the Styx legacy goes, Dennis deserves a lot more of the spotlight than Larry does!

I can't believe anyone would disagree with this statement.

by **stabbim** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:27 am

styxfanNH wrote:
cittadeeno23 wrote:I believe as far as the Styx legacy goes, Dennis deserves a lot more of the spotlight than Larry does!

I can't believe anyone would disagree with this statement.

Pffft. It's all about Tom Nardini, and you know it.

by **StyxCollector** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:16 pm

Yeesh Zan, it's steal Allan's threads redux AGAIN lol

I've pretty much thrown it out there in the past that if there was some sort of "Styx" type reunion with DDY and Tommy, there would be a keyboard player as DDY has now. And why not Gowan? He knows the parts. I have a hard time believing DDY would have a problem with Gowan. JY? Different story.

I'll say it again. Here's the lineup I can see:
DDY - lead vox & occasional keys
TS - lead vox, guitars
Hank - backing vox, bass
Glen - lead/backing vocals, guitars
Gowan or John B. - keyboards (you're only getting Gowan if Styx takes a hiatus or folds up shop)
Kyle or Todd - drums (Gowan comment applies to Todd, too)

There you have "the band which cannot be called Styx because JY owns the name". It makes sense. Anyone who has seen a Shaw Blades show vs. a Styx show can clearly see - at least I can see it and I've seen Styx and solo stuff a long time - that the Tommy at the S/B show was completely different than the guy doing the 15 minute opus that is "Renegade". Styx is the cash cow he's riding. All signs point to him being much more conciliatory towards DDY in recent years, even throwing his live show a good comment (whether he listened to the live album, saw the DVD, or snuck into a show - we'll never know).

While it would never be a true JY reunion, and I would agree with Sterling's comments that the magic between the JY, TS, and DDY harmonies is what made Styx what it is, I can't see JY and DDY standing on the same stage again any time soon. JY's still throwing barbs, even if it is toned down (and those of us who remember 1999 and 2000, whast is being said now is not as biting that's for sure). You'd pretty much have to write very large checks I think for both to tolerate each other for a tour, and make sure their paths don't cross when they are offstage. That could lead to some fun tension on stage and could blow up (could be fun to watch the meltdown if it happens on stage), but I think both guys are professionals who would get the job done.

The X factor to me is Shaw Blades. Assuming the tour this fall/early winter, what will that do to TS' interest in Styx? Time will tell.

by **styxfanNH** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:47 pm

Allan, I think we've already started to see the toll of Shaw Blades on Styx. In the Evening With / Co headlining dates, Tommy is doing Crysal Ball in full with Man in the Wilderness in acoustic form. This fall/winters dates can only extend that feeling. I know one person close to him has said to him that the Shaw Blades stuff is his love, and that his growth with Styx is non exhistant.

by **Zan** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:35 pm

StyxCollector wrote:Yeesh Zan, it's steal Allan's threads redux AGAIN lol

I've pretty much thrown it out there in the past that if there was some sort of "Styx" type reunion with DDY and Tommy, there would be a keyboard player as DDY has now. And why not Gowan? He knows the parts. I have a hard time believing DDY would have a problem with Gowan. JY? Different story.

I'll say it again. Here's the lineup I can see:
DDY - lead vox & occasional keys
TS - lead vox, guitars
Hank - backing vox, bass
Glen - lead/backing vocals, guitars
Gowan or John B. - keyboards (you're only getting Gowan if Styx takes a hiatus or folds up shop)
Kyle or Todd - drums (Gowan comment applies to Todd, too)

Obviously, I'd go see any scenario in this equation, but I really have no interest in John B. or Kyle. Gowan and Todd have become two of my favorite musicians ever, while the other two do nothing for me. I'm not saying they suck or anything, but for me, they fall short of greatness. I know Froy believes DDY's keyboardist (there's an irony for ya right there) blows Gowan away (another piece of comedy due to the fact that he's never seen Gowan live), but I highly doubt it - I'd have to see it to believe it, I guess, and from what I have seen, fuhgettaboutit.

And Allan, you know everyone here lives to steal your ideas. Just accept it as one of those crosses you have to bear. :lol:

by **StyxCollector** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:09 am

Zan wrote:Obviously, I'd go see any scenario in this equation, but I really have no interest in John B. or Kyle. Gowan and Todd have become two of my favorite musicians ever, while the other two do nothing for me. I'm not saying they suck or anything, but for me, they fall short of greatness. I know Froy believes DDY's keyboardist (there's an irony for ya right there) blows Gowan away (another piece of comedy due to the fact that he's never seen Gowan live), but I highly doubt it - I'd have to see it to believe it, I guess, and from what I have seen, fuhgettaboutit.

And Allan, you know everyone here lives to steal your ideas. Just accept it as one of those crosses you have to bear.

LOL Zan, guess I do. Dammit.

I agree 100% on Todd. Not even an argument there. I have never - and this is going back to that first orchestral show @ the Rosemont Horizon - thought Kyle was a great drummer for DDY. He murders those fills in "Castle Walls" for me. Some of it is he doesn't have the drumkit, but those fills are such a crucial part of the song.

John B. is a good keyboard player, but I have heard him goof some of the parts. Gowan isn't leaps and bounds better than John, and neither is John leaps and bounds better than Gowan. I would take Gowan simply because I think he knows the parts better, and has demonstrated the ability to do songs like "Fooling Yourself" et al.

I mean, the idea of a dedicated keyboard player goes back to either 1991 (EOTC tour) or the 1996 shows, but if I remember correctly, Tommy is the one that pushed to have DDY play keys and not hire someone.

I would say in any configuration, Ricky is out of a job and Chuck would appear as he does now. The question is will JY come along for the ride? I say yes. What the hell else would he do?

The other problem you have is that both Glen and DDY don't like extended tours anymore. So if this does happen, I think you're looking at a summer shed tour at most. You're not looking at the neverending extended tour. However, I know fans have wanted DDY to come to the UK and Europe, and Styx recently has established themselves again there. Styx with DDY back (or whatever you want to call this arrangement) would probably do well to go back overseas for one last jaunt.

My prediction: if it doesn't happen by 2010, it's not going to happen ever.

by **Zan** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:25 am

StyxCollector wrote:I would say in any configuration, Ricky is out of a job and Chuck would appear as he does now. The question is will JY come along for the ride? I say yes. What the hell else would he do?

The other problem you have is that both Glen and DDY don't like extended tours anymore. So if this does happen, I think you're looking at a summer shed tour at most. You're not looking at the neverending extended tour. However, I know fans have wanted DDY to come to the UK and Europe, and Styx recently has established themselves again there. Styx with DDY back (or whatever you want to call this arrangement) would probably do well to go back overseas for one last jaunt.

My prediction: if it doesn't happen by 2010, it's not going to happen ever.

About JY - I'd certainly hope he'd come along, but who knows. That would be something he and Deny would need to hash out on their own. Sorta like this whole imaginary scenario. LOL

You know (thinking out loud here), everyone talks about this Styx "legacy," but since the beginning of time, Styx has never been taken seriously by critis and a lot of people in general. I say their legacy might be misplaced. Perhaps if they embraced their corniness, they'd have a better, more desirable appeal than they ever knew possible? Sorta like Spinal Tap did.

by **bugsymalone** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:28 am

My prediction: if it doesn't happen by 2010, it's not going to happen ever.

It is my deepest wish that Dennis never, ever reunite with any of the current, or future, members of Styx. My opinion.

Dennis has truly moved on. Styx the group is now in his past. Styx music will always be a part of who he is and what he was. I honestly believe that JY (and maybe the others as well) feel the same way about their current situation.

Having some of the lineups mentioned above for a reunited Styx-like group really make me cringe.

I am loving Dennis solo and all the places his new career is taking him. I know others feel the same way about Current Styx.

I truly hope Dennis means what he says about crossing the Rubicon.

Bugsy

by **StyxCollector** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:37 pm

Bugsy - it's not necessarily about DDY getting back together with Styx; I still think in reality, the chances are fairly low. A few years ago I would have given it a higher percentage.

I agree with you about the "legacy", Zan. DDY and JY have used that trump card to their advantage/disadvantage over the years, and JY more these days. Journey is a good example of what you are talking about. Lead singer fiascos aside, they have embraced their hits. Look at "Don't Stop Believin'" recently. I mean, they along with Styx, REO, Boston, etc. were never the critics darlings. Journey ran with it. Styx has always (IMO of course) taken themselves too seriously. Legacy? It's music. Music that many people grew up with and is the soundtrack to their life.

DDY's shows tend to embrace that more now than the Styx shows do. I think somewhere in the past 3 or so years DDY loosened up. People will kill me, but I think a big part of it was just being able to be frontman and do keys part time. Some of the "pressure" to be everything is gone on the stage. I think he's realized that it's about giving the audience what they want, and he does that. Is "Babe" for everyone? Clearly not (just read a few threads here lol), but he does it every night. "The Best Of Times"? Same thing.

Maybe I'm wrong about JY and the legacy thing. How long have I bitched that they have ignored songs like "Midnight Ride" and it's now back sometimes? 8 years going back the mailing list only where we all tore each other apart. I hope that they take some of that "it's for the fans" thing back.

MR