Journey's Treatment Of Singers

[ohsherrie]

Get a room you two!

Good idea, then I can smother him with the pillow.

You could put one on my face as long as the other one was over your face.

Nah, doesn't work that way. I wait until you're just about to fall asleep, then I slap that pillow on your face and stare into your shocked eyes until they dim.

Aw shit, maybe I should write pulp fiction. (actually your eyes are much too pretty to dim, dear )

[scarygirl]

Get a room you two!

Good idea, then I can smother him with the pillow.

You could put one on my face as long as the other one was over your face.

Scarygirl sings, "The Brady Bunch. The Brady Bunch. That's the way we all became the Brady Bunch!"

[Rhiannon]

Scarygirl sings, "The Brady Bunch. The Brady Bunch. That's the way we all became the Brady Bunch!"

Yeah, the TOM Brady Bunch maybe...

[conversationpc]

You asked if I was a Republican, or your post asking that was under mine, so I assumed you were asking me. There are scarce few people in a union that are Republican. I'm certainly not one.

I'm not in a union now but have been in the past and I know a TON of them who vote Republican.

[Rick]

You asked if I was a Republican, or your post asking that was under mine, so I assumed you were asking me. There are scarce few people in a union that are Republican. I'm certainly not one.

I'm not in a union now but have been in the past and I know a TON of them who vote Republican.

You couldn't find many here that would admit to it. The local here at least is predominately Democratic. There are probably a few Reps in the woodpile though.

[conversationpc]

You asked if I was a Republican, or your post asking that was under mine, so I assumed you were asking me. There are scarce few people in a union that are Republican. I'm certainly not one.

I'm not in a union now but have been in the past and I know a TON of them who vote Republican.

You couldn't find many here that would admit to it. The local here at least is predominately Democratic. There are probably a few Reps in the woodpile though.

Other than collective bargaining power, I don't understand why unions support Democrats. The vast majority of dems support more government regulations which, in effect strangle business and make it harder to make a profit and pay workers what they ought to.

[Rhiannon]

There are probably a few Reps in the woodpile though.

I've heard that phrase before... but different.

Who wants to quote Blazing Saddles again??

[Rockindeano]

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about the board flare ups when the talk of how Neal, Jon and management have handled past singers. I'll start by saying this is a thread moreso about Neal and Jon than it is management. I'll start with Perry. Perry was toured too hard. That was a decision management made and Perry agreed to (unfortunately). Then the sudden work stoppages. He left after Frontiers to record Street Talk. They waited for a few years and he came back for ROR. Then he stopped a bit short of finishing that tour. Again the band waited til about 1995, when Perry miraculously had the urge to sing again because the band had Rolie and Chalfant cutting songs. In 1996 they recorded TBF and had the big reunion tour ready. Hip goes bad (insert nasty comment here ). They wait again over a year and when Perry isn't any closer to making a decision than he was 13 months prior they move on.

Agreed. Steve Perry had his chance and made the most of it. He is unique though, in the fact that he was so fucking good, he could wield some power and used it to protect his voice to a certain extent.

Enter Steve Augeri. After bidding The Gap adios he steps in for Steve Perry. The band works hard, they practice and then they hit the road. After some gigs go by, Steve finds a nice groove. He does well and more importantly, he draws well. He cuts a nice album, is backed by a label and is more than decent in concert. However, the album, in terms of past popularity, is a colossal failure. It moves less than 400,00 units, generates no interest, and gets virtually no radio spins.
The lineup moves forward as a touring act and they do so relentlessly. They tour virtually every year. They release 1 and a half excrement laden albums, the second being while Augeri is battling major throat problems. The band decides for whatever reason(s) that they're going to add artificial, prerecorded elements to their shows and proceed to do that til they can't do so anymore.

So, they hire a guy, a nice guy, and then give him absolutely no power at all. SA is semi restricted in writing anyhow, but they didn't give him a chance. What the fuck you call touring every year, most of each said year? A chance? I call it singer death. A fair chance would be to sit tight 6 months and let the dude rest. Greed canceled that motive.

Jeff Scott Soto steps in and does a nice job on short notice. Jeff is eventually named lead singer (to dump water on TapeGate and effectively end the Augeri era). They tour a bit in the states, continue to receive nice reviews and head off to Europe.

Stop right there. Nice reviews? Lest you read any of them, they all kicked ass. I stood next to Neal and Jeff in Atlantic City and Neal said, "Dude, we are tearing it up. You see the review from yesterday? Awesome!" They got great, GREAT reviews, not ok or nice reviews.

"toured a bit in the States?" They did three legs with JSS. That's a long haul.

They fulfill a grueling European leg and return to the states.

a 3 week tour is grueling? come on now.

Soto, like Augeri, now had a certain contingent of fans following him (though they weighed several hundred pounds less ). However, after playing their last gig for the year they decide Jeff is not the right person for the path they have chosen. They publically thank Jeff and begin the process of looking for a new singer. Until he's named I'll leave that chapter open.

After their last gig? LOL, those despicable bastards were trying to undercut JSS before Virginia. They contacted Chalfant before departing for the east coast, inquiring about a position as singer. That is all class I tell ya. Yeah dude, JSS got a real chance. He excelled at his craft, kicked ass, and was showmn the door....yet these guys owe him nothing. How fucked up is this train of thought?

Steve Augeri was yanked from The Gap and was so surprised about the call he thought it had to be fake. He toured for 7 out of 8 years I believe and made enough money that he's wildly rich. They held on to him after the initial failure of Arrival and the dreadful Red 13. They continued to tour and show faith in him as their singer because the crowds were still virtually all there.

SA apparently sang last week and supposedly sounded good. So a lesson is learned. The voice is a delicate instrument and needs rest. They don't give him rest..they destroy his voice. Yeah a real chance there I tell ya.

JSS was summoned next. Out of nowhere, a name virtually no concert goers ever heard of, emerged as the new singer. He seized upon a mutually beneficial opportunity and gave Journey what they needed...a temporary shot in the arm, a means to extinguish TapeGate and a nice rendition of the classics. He made a boatload of dough, got to tour with the big boys and made a name for himself a bit on U.S. soil.

JSS saved their asses. He saved them millions in potential and probable lawsuits. Neal even mentioned that as a possibility. JSS was hired as permanent singer. The jury is out as to why. Some think he was signed to "keep him on so they could get the European dates done." Also, for your information, JSS did not make a "boatload of money" in the sense of this business. He was salaried up until December 19th when he was hired full time. He did not make a boatload of money, Dan. This is a private manner and none of our business so I will shut up about it, but he is owed money by those fuckers though. He saved their sorry asses.

In summation, Journey has seemingly been patient and fair with their singers.

You have got to be kidding? This is the single most fucked up thing I have ever read in my life.

Imagine Steve Smith, arguably the world's greatest drummer, reading the reaction we made over that. Shit, when he was fired hardly a peep was muttered by him or anyone else.

Smith was fired in an era where there was NO internet, Had he been fired in the web era, and if MR was around, trust me, there would have been huge noise in Journeyland, and a lot of fire spewed at Mr. Perry.

He moved on. Time we do the same, along with Augeri and Soto. I'm over it...completely. These guys have fucked over one singer and one singer only....Kevin Chalfant. He's the ONLY one they owe ANY sort of apology to.

They don't owe Chalfant dick. What do they owe him an apology for? Hell, he made a Journey tribute album..he should pay them!

Short of a few partially lipped concerts, they haven't done a damn thing to me. And I now completely understand the business aspect of that decision.

a few, partially lipped concerts? LOL, Dan, there are so many holes in your boat, I fear you are sunk my man. They lipped for a solid year, every song in concert save LTS..and partially lipped the previous 2 years before that. Your lack of real knowledge is showing.

Journey gives singers a chance. It might last a decade, close to decade or less than a year, but they give you a chance. In the end, that's all you can ask for in business...a chance.

No. A chance should be made in good faith. Jeff performed his position in the band as good or better than any of the other 4. He got publicly buttfucked and you know it.

I will continue to love this band, its music and its shows. For those that will discontinue going to their shows, I completely understand that is your right as a paying customer and respect that choice. God bless.

That's your choice. It's a fucked choice, but it is yours. I wish you would grow your backbone back again.

[Rick]

There are probably a few Reps in the woodpile though.

I've heard that phrase before... but different.

Who wants to quote Blazing Saddles again??

I've got it! I've got it! We'll work up a number 6 on 'em.

[RocknRoll]

Great post SJ

JSS is doing what he does best, fronting his own band and he has Journey to thank for getting his name out. He just needs to make it here to the Midwest.

[Rhiannon]

I've got it! I've got it! We'll work up a number 6 on 'em.

Ditto!

[fightingilliniJRNY]

JSS is doing what he does best, fronting his own band and he has Journey to thank for getting his name out. He just needs to make it here to the Midwest.

That's for sure!

[Saint John]

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about the board flare ups when the talk of how Neal, Jon and management have handled past singers. I'll start by saying this is a thread moreso about Neal and Jon than it is management. I'll start with Perry. Perry was toured too hard. That was a decision management made and Perry agreed to (unfortunately). Then the sudden work stoppages. He left after Frontiers to record Street Talk. They waited for a few years and he came back for ROR. Then he stopped a bit short of finishing that tour. Again the band waited til about 1995, when Perry miraculously had the urge to sing again because the band had Rolie and Chalfant cutting songs. In 1996 they recorded TBF and had the big reunion tour ready. Hip goes bad (insert nasty comment here ). They wait again over a year and when Perry isn't any closer to making a decision than he was 13 months prior they move on.

Agreed. Steve Perry had his chance and made the most of it. He is unique though, in the fact that he was so fucking good, he could wield some power and used it to protect his voice to a certain extent.

Enter Steve Augeri. After bidding The Gap adios he steps in for Steve Perry. The band works hard, they practice and then they hit the road. After some gigs go by, Steve finds a nice groove. He does well and more importantly, he draws well. He cuts a nice album, is backed by a label and is more than decent in concert. However, the album, in terms of past popularity, is a colossal failure. It moves less than 400,00 units, generates no interest, and gets virtually no radio spins.
The lineup moves forward as a touring act and they do so relentlessly. They tour virtually every year. They release 1 and a half excrement laden albums, the second being while Augeri is battling major throat problems. The band decides for whatever reason(s) that they're going to add artificial, prerecorded elements to their shows and proceed to do that til they can't do so anymore.

So, they hire a guy, a nice guy, and then give him absolutely no power at all. SA is semi restricted in writing anyhow, but they didn't give him a chance. What the fuck you call touring every year, most of each said year? A chance? I call it singer death. A fair chance would be to sit tight 6 months and let the dude rest. Greed canceled that motive.

Jeff Scott Soto steps in and does a nice job on short notice. Jeff is eventually named lead singer (to dump water on TapeGate and effectively end the Augeri era). They tour a bit in the states, continue to receive nice reviews and head off to Europe.

Stop right there. Nice reviews? Lest you read any of them, they all kicked ass. I stood next to Neal and Jeff in Atlantic City and Neal said, "Dude, we are tearing it up. You see the review from yesterday? Awesome!" They got great, GREAT reviews, not ok or nice reviews.

"toured a bit in the States?" They did three legs with JSS. That's a long haul.

They fulfill a grueling European leg and return to the states.

a 3 week tour is grueling? come on now.

Soto, like Augeri, now had a certain contingent of fans following him (though they weighed several hundred pounds less ). However, after playing their last gig for the year they decide Jeff is not the right person for the path they have chosen. They publically thank Jeff and begin the process of looking for a new singer. Until he's named I'll leave that chapter open.

After their last gig? LOL, those despicable bastards were trying to undercut JSS before Virginia. They contacted Chalfant before departing for the east coast, inquiring about a position as singer. That is all class I tell ya. Yeah dude, JSS got a real chance. He excelled at his craft, kicked ass, and was showmn the door....yet these guys owe him nothing. How fucked up is this train of thought?

Steve Augeri was yanked from The Gap and was so surprised about the call he thought it had to be fake. He toured for 7 out of 8 years I believe and made enough money that he's wildly rich. They held on to him after the initial failure of Arrival and the dreadful Red 13. They continued to tour and show faith in him as their singer because the crowds were still virtually all there.

SA apparently sang last week and supposedly sounded good. So a lesson is learned. The voice is a delicate instrument and needs rest. They don't give him rest..they destroy his voice. Yeah a real chance there I tell ya.

JSS was summoned next. Out of nowhere, a name virtually no concert goers ever heard of, emerged as the new singer. He seized upon a mutually beneficial opportunity and gave Journey what they needed...a temporary shot in the arm, a means to extinguish TapeGate and a nice rendition of the classics. He made a boatload of dough, got to tour with the big boys and made a name for himself a bit on U.S. soil.

JSS saved their asses. He saved them millions in potential and probable lawsuits. Neal even mentioned that as a possibility. JSS was hired as permanent singer. The jury is out as to why. Some think he was signed to "keep him on so they could get the European dates done." Also, for your information, JSS did not make a "boatload of money" in the sense of this business. He was salaried up until December 19th when he was hired full time. He did not make a boatload of money, Dan. This is a private manner and none of our business so I will shut up about it, but he is owed money by those fuckers though. He saved their sorry asses.

In summation, Journey has seemingly been patient and fair with their singers.

You have got to be kidding? This is the single most fucked up thing I have ever read in my life.

Imagine Steve Smith, arguably the world's greatest drummer, reading the reaction we made over that. Shit, when he was fired hardly a peep was muttered by him or anyone else.

Smith was fired in an era where there was NO internet, Had he been fired in the web era, and if MR was around, trust me, there would have been huge noise in Journeyland, and a lot of fire spewed at Mr. Perry.

He moved on. Time we do the same, along with Augeri and Soto. I'm over it...completely. These guys have fucked over one singer and one singer only....Kevin Chalfant. He's the ONLY one they owe ANY sort of apology to.

They don't owe Chalfant dick. What do they owe him an apology for? Hell, he made a Journey tribute album..he should pay them!

Short of a few partially lipped concerts, they haven't done a damn thing to me. And I now completely understand the business aspect of that decision.

a few, partially lipped concerts? LOL, Dan, there are so many holes in your boat, I fear you are sunk my man. They lipped for a solid year, every song in concert save LTS..and partially lipped the previous 2 years before that. Your lack of real knowledge is showing.

Journey gives singers a chance. It might last a decade, close to decade or less than a year, but they give you a chance. In the end, that's all you can ask for in business...a chance.

No. A chance should be made in good faith. Jeff performed his position in the band as good or better than any of the other 4. He got publicly buttfucked and you know it.

I will continue to love this band, its music and its shows. For those that will discontinue going to their shows, I completely understand that is your right as a paying customer and respect that choice. God bless.

That's your choice. It's a fucked choice, but it is yours. I wish you would grow your backbone back again.

Augeri was given every chance to excel but there was no writing chemistry and fan and/or fan interest in new music.

Jeff was paid for services rendered. They let him go. Corporations can do that. Put your rattle down, get your diaper changed and go heat your bottle.

16 shows in 24 days in Europe IS grueling.

These "awesome" reviews you speak of are the same ones Augeri got. Diminished tickets purchased (not one sellout post-Augeri in the U.S.) and the European promoters that were less than pleased gave Journey only one choice.

[StevePerryHair]

JSS is doing what he does best, fronting his own band and he has Journey to thank for getting his name out. He just needs to make it here to the Midwest.

That's for sure!

He was in the Midwest. South Bend, Indiana. Melodic Rock Fest

[Rockindeano]

Augeri was given every chance to excel but there was no writing chemistry and fan and/or fan interest in new music.

Agreed. SA couldn't write save his ass, BUT, he was there to tour the dirty dozen. And you know Goddamned well, the reason for the bands' existence is to tour. Even the Great one himself would have a hard time selling units nowadays. You really think Arnel\'s new music, which is done, will sell worth a bag of oats? Please.

Jeff was paid for services rendered. They let him go. Corporations can do that. Put your rattle down, get your diaper changed and go heat your bottle.

You have no idea of which you speak here. NO idea.

16 shows in 24 days in Europe IS grueling.

Dude, a 24 day tour even singing 20 shows is NOT grueling.

These "awesome" reviews you speak of are the same ones Augeri got. Diminished tickets purchased (not one sellout post-Augeri in the U.S.) and the European promoters that were less than pleased gave Journey only one choice.

Did you see Journey with Jeff? Tickets were stable. Hell, Def Lippard was the draw anyways. You think your boy AP will sell concert tickets? Haha, enjoy your show at the Chicago Sun Times Home Depot show in Chicago. What band would dare go out with Journey? And, if they do go out alone, they aren't going to draw 4,000 souls.

[ArnelRox]

your boy AP

Now he's Dan's boy?

[Saint John]

"Haha, enjoy your show at the Chicago Sun Times Home Depot show in Chicago."

That was funny.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

JSS is doing what he does best, fronting his own band and he has Journey to thank for getting his name out. He just needs to make it here to the Midwest.

That's for sure!

He was in the Midwest. South Bend, Indiana. Melodic Rock Fest

Closer-to-me Midwest. Can't he play wherever we want him to?

[Rockindeano]

your boy AP

Now he's Dan's boy?

I dig AP..

Say, in your avatar, is that pic on his shirt a pic of a donkey mounting another donkey, or a donkey licking it's own ass?

[Rhiannon]

your boy AP

Now he's Dan's boy?

I dig AP..

Say, in your avatar, is that pic on his shirt a pic of a donkey mounting another donkey, or a donkey licking it's own ass?

Its a unicorn mounting a horse.

[Saint John]

your boy AP

Now he's Dan's boy?

I dig AP..

Say, in your avatar, is that pic on his shirt a pic of a donkey mounting another donkey, or a donkey licking it's own ass?

I just saw that. You're a perceptive fucker.

[AR]

Stop right there. Nice reviews? Lest you read any of them, they all kicked ass. I stood next to Neal and Jeff in Atlantic City and Neal said, "Dude, we are tearing it up. You see the review from yesterday? Awesome!" They got great, GREAT reviews, not ok or nice reviews.

"toured a bit in the States?" They did three legs with JSS. That's a long haul.

Dean, I heard some stuff in AC and Boston. Is it ok to respond here? Nothing other than about Jeff's talent and what was said back stage in Mansfield.

[conversationpc]

your boy AP

Now he's Dan's boy?

I dig AP..

Say, in your avatar, is that pic on his shirt a pic of a donkey mounting another donkey, or a donkey licking it's own ass?

I just saw that. You're a perceptive fucker.

It looks like a unicorn getting it on with a Clydesdale.

[Rockindeano]

Still looks like AP is going to give that mic a nice hot BJ, don't it?

[Rhiannon]

Still looks like AP is going to give that mic a nice hot BJ, don't it?

Is that giving you wood or something, Dean?

[AR]

I remember what Neal said to Jeff in Mansfield while I was downing a Sam Adams.

Love to drop some honest answers. No bombs. As much as I hate Journey, anything private goes to my grave with me. But anything about vocalists and the band and what they thought of singers I would love to go off about.

PM's first though. Guidance please. Seeing things getting looser sbout stuff, but I defer to my bros.

[ArnelRox]

I dig AP..

Hooray. Me too surprise surprise!

Say, in your avatar, is that pic on his shirt a pic of a donkey mounting another donkey, or a donkey licking it's own ass?

Ohhh u made me go back & watch the video again. That was such a hardship for me. Ok his jacket flips open at one point & it looks like a horse mounting another horse.

[ArnelRox]

Its a unicorn mounting a horse.

OMG are u hinting u have inside info about AP? Sorry couldnt resist it

[RocknRoll]

JSS is doing what he does best, fronting his own band and he has Journey to thank for getting his name out. He just needs to make it here to the Midwest.

That's for sure!

He was in the Midwest. South Bend, Indiana. Melodic Rock Fest

And I was there. But the best had to be the SoulSirKus show here in Chicago

[AR]

I dig AP..

Hooray. Me too surprise surprise!

Say, in your avatar, is that pic on his shirt a pic of a donkey mounting another donkey, or a donkey licking it's own ass?

Ohhh u made me go back & watch the video again. That was such a hardship for me. Ok his jacket flips open at one point & it looks like a horse mounting another horse.

Are Journey playing the Westminster Kennel Club this year Sus?

I COULD NOT RESIST - sorry.