Herbie Herbert: One Man's Journey

by **ProgRocker53** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:17 pm

Discuss.

by **Rockindeano** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:50 pm

Unbelievable.

by **LazzMan** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:57 pm

Interesting comments around Augeri and Soto. He doubled back on Augeri saying he's had problems from the start and he all but owned up to recommending that Neal get rid of JSS.

by **AlteredDNA** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:07 pm

LazzMan wrote:Interesting comments around Augeri and Soto. He doubled back on Augeri saying he's had problems from the start and he all but owned up to recommending that Neal get rid of JSS.

He definitely didn't appear to do anything to convice them to keep Soto in the band...

by **SteveForever** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:36 pm

He kept saying over and over how much money Steve lost for the band, but Steve made SO much money for the band and still
does. I respect the heck out of Neal, I love him as much as Steve, but Perry made those songs special and unique.

The part where he said Perry never looking into the audience, yes he did. That's crap, I sat right in front of him twice.

Anyway, thanks Andrew-very interesting. I wish you had asked him why he got fired from the band, ha!

by **(Crazy)Dulce Lady** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:40 pm

opps. i put my discussion at the end of the other thread.

by **mikemarrs** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:45 pm

i look at it this way.there might've been a real good chance if journey would've continued recording and made a few more albums after raised on radio in '86 there would've been a good chance those could've flopped or not sold as well as past releases because times and sounds were changing by the late eighties.in retrospect it might've been a good thing they took a break for a while instead of churning out a few mediocre albums due to be tired and burned out.the only thing i think that hurt the legacy was mostly post 1998 thats where i think the real mistakes have been made.

by **mikemarrs** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:53 pm

the reason i say it might've been a good thing to take a break is because bands like foreigner and styx who were churning out top ten singles and albums on the same rate as journey had horrible chart success by the time the 90's rolled around.foreigner had a number one smash with i want to know what love is and the album was a top five hit also around the same time raised on radio was released in '86.by the time '91 rolled around foreigner released another album which didn't even crack the top 100 albums.styx also released an album that hit like number 70 in 1990.bands like these that used to hit top five every release kept churning out albums which weren't selling because times had changed.by the time '96 rolled around journey had another top ten album with trial by fire and picked up where they left off because they wisely took a break.so in retrospect it was a wise thing i think because its quality not quantity that counts.

by **Liam** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:57 pm

mikemarrs wrote:the reason i say it might've been a good thing to take a break is because bands like foreigner and styx who were churning out top ten singles and albums on the same rate as journey had horrible chart success by the time the 90's rolled around.foreigner had a number one smash with i want to know what love is and the album was a top five hit also around the same time raised on radio was released in '86.by the time '91 rolled around foreigner released another album which didn't even crack the top 100 albums.styx also released an album that hit like number 70 in 1990.bands like these that used to hit top five every release kept churning out albums which weren't selling because times had changed.by the time '96 rolled around journey had another top ten album with trial by fire and picked up where they left off because they wisely took a break.so in retrospect it was a wise thing i think because its quality not quantity that counts.

The only difference is that Styx had a top 10 (forget how high) hit with Show Me The Way in '91. I THINK Edge Of The Century went higher than 70 on the charts.

by **Liam** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:00 pm

BTW Andrew...GREAT read. Thanks for sharing. I'm glad you got the interview. :-)

by **RedWingFan** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:01 pm

Glad Herbie's unbiased ear heard the same thing my unbiased ear heard with Soto filling in.

by **Memorex** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:05 pm

Certainly not as bad as I thought it would be, maybe because I prepared myself. And reading it, you can clearly see where there are comments about people just to get a rise or say you were there. So I take it with a grain of salt.

I think a singer change in 84 would have been disastrous. They would have had to find someone absolutely perfect, or invent a new sound like VH. I can’t think of any singer back then that could have pulled it off. Maybe Sammy himself. I’m a fan of Kevin’s, but no way he takes Journey anywhere near what they were. That’s my take.

Even though I always knew it, it really disturbs me to see what “my” band did with the vocal tracks. Get through a night, get through a tour. But to “fool” the fans year after year is truly a low I can’t even stand to think about. It’s embarrassing as a fan.

Nice to hear positives about Neal’s playing. Herbie’s previous kind comments were always bookended by insults.

My Rush-fan friend will not be happy with the Tom Sawyer comment. 

I’ll eat my words if I am wrong, but no way this Wal-Mart deal does anything for the fan base of Journey. If it gets them 8 bucks instead of 4, or whatever, great. But this will not sell all that well. At least not as well as he wishes or some folks here want.

I’m a huge Kenny Loggins fan – MAJOR – but when I heard his latest was released to Target, I can’t even tell you the disappointment I felt. And that proved out. Now he will be re-releasing it to a wider base. But I think it will still go nowhere.

And the comparison between the Eagles and Journey is quite laughable. I won’t even get into that.

I definitely enjoyed this interview more than the previous, so hats off to you for attempting to avoid some of the nastier stuff Andrew.

Herbie was not all good. I suppose none of them were. To come out and say how wrong it was to let Ross go without the reasons behind it is disingenuous. As far as Smith, I have no idea.

The guy is a legend. He’s brilliant. He’s bitter, but maybe mellowing a little. I find some of his comments irritating and it makes me question his overall claims.

Last point. I still think TBF is Journey’s best album.

by **brandonx76** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:08 pm

Those are my immediate thoughts.

Great job Andrew!

by **The Fly** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:09 pm

Fantastic Read!! Thanks Andrew. I have a lot of respect for Herbie. I thought he made some great points and it's a shame the way things turned after Frontiers. They were so HOT back then. Nice to hear he seems to support the new line-up.

by **brandonx76** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:11 pm

Memorex wrote:Last point. I still think TBF is Journey’s best album.

Really? ballad heavy, poor sound mixing, Perry's last generation vocal quality, and all?

by **The Fly** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:13 pm

Memorex wrote:
Last point. I still think TBF is Journey’s best album.

You either love it or hate it pretty much. I think it's by far the worst. But that's just me.

by **yulog** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:24 pm

RedWingFan wrote:Glad Herbie's unbiased ear heard the same thing my unbiased ear heard with Soto filling in.

I have to agree, i never thought JSS sounded right for the band. From the moment he filled in I kept saying, theres no way they can keep him in this band it just won't work.Just a contrast of styles, obviously they didnt really handle the letting go very well, but in reality there really aren't a lot of relationships whether they are business or romantic that end "Well".

by **mikemarrs** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:29 pm

for artistic purposes JSS would've been great but that wasn't going to cut it with the fickle concert audience who were there strictly to hear the perry classics done the same way as the albums they remembered.the band knew where its bread was buttered and had to go with its financial instead of creative instincts.

by **Memorex** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:30 pm

brandonpfn wrote:
Memorex wrote:Last point. I still think TBF is Journey’s best album.

Really? ballad heavy, poor sound mixing, Perry's last generation vocal quality, and all?

I'm 41 years old and prefer soul to shine. There is a maturity on that album not found on the others. I could give a shit about recording quality. If a song is good, it doesn't matter. I'll watch an incredible movie on an i-pod and enjoy it more than a slick flick at the i-max.

Not for everyone - but for me, there was growth and depth. Sorry, but I'd rather hear Still She Cried than Dead or Alive at my age.

Substance. And for me, far superior vocal quality on TBF. So much more. Don't get me wrong, I loved the old voice too, but the TBF voice moves me.

by **Johnny Mohawk** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:32 pm

My take on it is this; Herbie is/was a businessman. He was all about doing whatever would reap the biggest financial rewards for "the company" that was Journey.
When they were struggling, his insistence on constant touring, etc. may have been necessary to keep the momentum going. However, once they achieved success (both financial and popularity wise), Perry didn't want to keep the pedal to the floor 24/7 as Herbie had planned.

Let's face it, an artist wants as much control over their creations as possible. When Perry started making decisions that had been left up to Herbie in the past, Herbie felt threatened. I can certainly understand why the two would have butted heads.

When Augeri joined Journey, Herbie was very positive about it and now he acts as if he knew what ended up happening, would. He made comments about Perry's performing, saying that he couldn't connect with an audience, "never even made eye contact, never". I mean, I guess the "connect" part is up for opinion, but I know of millions of concert attendees who would vigorously disagree with that. And the no eye-contact thing, that's pretty easy to disprove if you've ever seen Perry live, you know that's pure BS.

It's just hard for me to believe much of the behind the scenes gossip from him for two reasons. One is that I know that some of his statements are obviously false (like the one above). Second, he sometimes even has trouble giving certain band members credit for the stuff that isn't even debatable, like their musical talent.

What I find amusing every time I hear Herbie talk, is how he ALWAYS refers to a bands success as "his" success. He doesn't just say he managed Mr. Big when they had a #1 hit, he refers to it as "I got a hit with Europe, Roxette, etc." Now, I'm sure there's plenty of behind the scenes politicking going on w/ record labels etc., but come on, give the artists who wrote and performed the music some damn credit too!

by **mikemarrs** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:32 pm

Liam wrote:
mikemarrs wrote:the reason i say it might've been a good thing to take a break is because bands like foreigner and styx who were churning out top ten singles and albums on the same rate as journey had horrible chart success by the time the 90's rolled around.foreigner had a number one smash with i want to know what love is and the album was a top five hit also around the same time raised on radio was released in '86.by the time '91 rolled around foreigner released another album which didn't even crack the top 100 albums.styx also released an album that hit like number 70 in 1990.bands like these that used to hit top five every release kept churning out albums which weren't selling because times had changed.by the time '96 rolled around journey had another top ten album with trial by fire and picked up where they left off because they wisely took a break.so in retrospect it was a wise thing i think because its quality not quantity that counts.

The only difference is that Styx had a top 10 (forget how high) hit with Show Me The Way in '91. I THINK Edge Of The Century went higher than 70 on the charts.

i was wrong,EDGE OF THE CENTURY peaked at #63,which is weird i admit since show me the way did hit the top ten.i saw a great show they put on in july of that year.missed shaw though because of his being in damn yankees.

by **Memorex** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:34 pm

Memorex wrote:
brandonpfn wrote:
Memorex wrote:Last point. I still think TBF is Journey’s best album.

Really? ballad heavy, poor sound mixing, Perry's last generation vocal quality, and all?

I'm 41 years old and prefer soul to shine. There is a maturity on that album not found on the others. I could give a shit about recording quality. If a song is good, it doesn't matter. I'll watch an incredible movie on an i-pod and enjoy it more than a slick flick at the i-max.

Not for everyone - but for me, there was growth and depth. Sorry, but I'd rather hear Still She Cried than Dead or Alive at my age.

Substance. And for me, far superior vocal quality on TBF. So much more. Don't get me wrong, I loved the old voice too, but the TBF voice moves me.

Hey - maybe I just found my new screen name. "Soul Over Shine". How does one change their screen name anyway?

Memorex was to prove a point to the non-believers. Now, if anyone sticks there head in here and claims tapes were not used, well, they are beyond help. And I don't hate Augeri. I hate what JOURNEY did.

by **Indyjoe** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:36 pm

Hmmm. Jeff wasn't just "filling in". He was announced as the new singer. It seems as though Journey thought he sounded right for the band. The fans in So Cal thought he sounded right.

But then, we've been down this road before...

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:46 pm

Indyjoe wrote:Hmmm. Jeff wasn't just "filling in". He was announced as the new singer. It seems as though Journey thought he sounded right for the band. The fans in So Cal thought he sounded right.

But then, we've been down this road before...

but remember ,, Soto even commented that his performance at the show where HH attended wasnt up to snuff.. HH certainly didnt hear his England performance ...

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:51 pm

Memorex wrote:Hey - maybe I just found my new screen name. "Soul Over Shine". How does one change their screen name anyway?

not an option anymore,, your stuck with Memorex.. i kinda like it .. it could be worse,,you could
have named yourself BASF or Maxell..

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:51 pm

ProgRocker53 wrote:Discuss.

boy,, you sure put some deep thought into this one.. :wink:

by **Shadowsong** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:52 pm

Sorry, but it sounds like he's fallin
deeper into the abyss of self delusion....

I had hoped for more for him...

:roll:

by **LyricalLady** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:52 pm

I'm not a huge poster here or in with the in-crowd.....and maybe what I have to say won't be of import or even relevant, but here goes.......

I actually took a nap so I could stay awake and read the interview, it's goin on 1:30am EDT here. I wanted to be objective and take time to not only read it, but digest it ......and it is REALLY long. My goodness Andrew...you did a phenomenal job on this! You had to be tired towards the end of talking to him cause I was getting tired reading it. Thank you most kindly for your time and efforts in presenting us this interesting read.

Mr. Herbert gets off on alot of side tangents if you ask me. I had a hard time in some places keeping the subject of the question in mind while he got to the answers - which I am not sure he always did. Rather like a certian Mr. Perry....goes round and round and never really directly answers your question. But I was all in all very impressed. And It didn't hurt at all. I was prepared to be shaking with wrath and bawling my eyes out. In reality he really didn't get into personal stuff much, here and there he flung in a barb...but nothing we haven't heard before.

IMO Mr. Herbert is still bitter regarding Steve Perry. But he held his comments to mostly what he has already said before and I didn't learn anything new that will be of interest to Steve Perry when.....and we all know he will be notified that this is here....he reads it - if he reads it. And that makes me happy. Life is too short to drag what is past with you in the now.

Perhaps age, time, his (Mr. Herberts) heart attack and/or a combo of all of them, has tempered his words to some extent. I read the ENTIRE interview......every word.....and Mr. Herbert didn't use all that many 'colorful metafore's' and wasn't near as caustic as he was in "Castles Burning", and for that I thank him. When you get off on F'n this and F'n that...ya lose the whole point of the question or answer. I'm pretty good at sayin what I want...cutting someine into ribbons at 30 paces and they don't know they been sliced till they walk way and the pieces start falling off....and I hardly ever use 'words of color'. I'm impressed that Mr. Herbert is pretty good at it too, actually, very good.

On the technical parts of the interview, and there were alot, and being a technical layman on most of the jargon and recording details , I got pretty lost in some places, but I got enough of it to keep up. I found the Nocturne things interesting....but I didn't follow the references to Steve P. costing them millions by making Journey Inc sell off their assets, wtih Noctrine being one of them, since Nocturne isn't really a money maker - so to speak- anymore? - Did I miss something there?????

Mr. Herbert seems to have been a champion of Mr. Chalfant....that was new to me and would have been very interesting if it had taken place.

I have to admit Steve A in Journey wasn't something I followed much, but I do have the Journey 2001 DVD. I've watched it a few times...but I just can't relate...sorry. So past the tape-gate things that went down here on the board...I'm not qualified to make comments on what Mr. Herbert had to say in regards to Steve A.

He was fairly brief on JSS whom I actually liked and was hopful that Journey had finally found someone to take them in a new and more current direction musically. I was really po'd at the way all of that situation was handled. I went to SouthBend in October and was duely impressed wtih Mr. Soto and his entire set. I bought all his CD's while I was there. IMO that was an opportunity missed.

Mr. Herberts thoughts on Mr. Pineda appears to be all positive. HH used alot of other industry names in reference places in his comments regarding Mr. Pineda. On one had he hopes they do well....on the other hes not all that sure they will????? HH stated he is not all that sure they can get air time to push the new songs into the main steam listening audience, even with the WalMart machine behind them. Like Mr. H implied....time will tell.

I am extemely happy I took that nap...read the interview word-for-word and I can honestly say I learned a few things....found out that Mr. Herbert got a band together for himself....I did not know that....and that he's not as wicked as I was led to believe - not NICE-NICE either, but I don't wanna shoot him over this interview.

Andrew you asked some grand questions...some I would have asked myslef if I had been there. I am not sure you actually got an answer to all of them though are you????

Again.......Thank you Andrew...well done!!!!

BTW...it's now 2:50am my time....I had to edit this.....I got to ramblin' a bit myself :lol:

by **Indyjoe** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:04 pm

larryfromnextdoor wrote:
Indyjoe wrote:Hmmm. Jeff wasn't just "filling in". He was announced as the new singer. It seems as though Journey thought he sounded right for the band. The fans in So Cal thought he sounded right.

But then, we've been down this road before...

but remember ,, Soto even commented that his performance at the show where HH attended wasnt up to snuff.. HH certainly didnt hear his England performance ...

I don't know about that show. My post was more toward the discussion about Jeff in the thread, rather than to HH's comments.

by **larryfromnextdoor** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:08 pm

Indyjoe wrote:
larryfromnextdoor wrote:
Indyjoe wrote:Hmmm. Jeff wasn't just "filling in". He was announced as the new singer. It seems as though Journey thought he sounded right for the band. The fans in So Cal thought he sounded right.

But then, we've been down this road before...

but remember ,, Soto even commented that his performance at the show where HH attended wasnt up to snuff.. HH certainly didnt hear his England performance ...

I don't know about that show. My post was more toward the discussion about Jeff in the thread, rather than to HH's comments.

oh... well anyway.. the ole man JSS is still my pick as well..

MR

Herbie Herbert: One Man's Journey

Herbie Herbert: One Man's Journey

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