Saw Foreigner last night

[Rockwriter]

Dennis has got to be the sappiest writer trying to pass himself off as a rock star, come one "babe" what the hell is that.
By the way all Dennis did on come sail away was add the piano intro.
In other words, he along with the other guys in Styx made it what it was and then he wreaked it with "Babe". Now Styx have been getting rid of the sappy label Dennis put on them, and they're doing one hell of a job by being way better than they ever have before.

The only part of CSA not written by Dennis was the odyssey written by yourself, JY..

tommy shaw wrote the chorus. it came from an MS Funk song called "aint gettin' down" or something similar to that. so, taking that into consideration, and the fact that JY wrote the middle instrumental section, the only thing dennis wrote were the verses and the bridge. hardly the "solo" effort" he's credited for.

True, the chord progression for the chorus was from Tommy's old song, which Dennis appropriated and modified. And JY wrote the middle instrumental section. But lest we start arguing about them getting screwed, most people around the band seem to agree that they bartered their contributions for credits elsewhere. For instance, JY is credited as the sole writer for "Miss America", when in fact Dennis wrote part of the chorus. It was one of those deals where they traded some credits back and forth, and wound up making a pretty bad deal for themselves, LOL. I bet they see it very differently in retrospect.


Sterling

[styxfansite]

Since we are on writing credits. On "Show Me the Way" wouldn't Chuck get a writing credit for getting Dennis to change "Roll Me Away" to "Show me the Way" since it was Chucks suggestion to do so. Dennis gave Chuck a thanks but not a writing credit. Would this part of the same or not really?

[stmonkeys]

chuck suggested the title. i'm not sure if that really "counts" since he didn't write the rest of the lyrics or the music. however, his title suggestion did help give dennis the creative spark to complete the song, which is why he prob got a special thank you. i'm sure there have been hundreds of instances where a few words or a title have been suggested that have gone uncredited. (not just in styx- in general)

[pinkzeppelin]

(Since we are on writing credits. On "Show Me the Way" wouldn't Chuck get a writing credit for getting Dennis to change "Roll Me Away" to "Show me the Way" since it was Chucks suggestion to do so. Dennis gave Chuck a thanks but not a writing credit. Would this part of the same or not really?)






Well you see, this is because Dennis is an asshole.

[pinkzeppelin]

Dennis has got to be the sappiest writer trying to pass himself off as a rock star, come one "babe" what the hell is that.
By the way all Dennis did on come sail away was add the piano intro.
In other words, he along with the other guys in Styx made it what it was and then he wreaked it with "Babe". Now Styx have been getting rid of the sappy label Dennis put on them, and they're doing one hell of a job by being way better than they ever have before.

The only part of CSA not written by Dennis was the odyssey written by yourself, JY..

tommy shaw wrote the chorus. it came from an MS Funk song called "aint gettin' down" or something similar to that. so, taking that into consideration, and the fact that JY wrote the middle instrumental section, the only thing dennis wrote were the verses and the bridge. hardly the "solo" effort" he's credited for.

True, the chord progression for the chorus was from Tommy's old song, which Dennis appropriated and modified. And JY wrote the middle instrumental section. But lest we start arguing about them getting screwed, most people around the band seem to agree that they bartered their contributions for credits elsewhere. For instance, JY is credited as the sole writer for "Miss America", when in fact Dennis wrote part of the chorus. It was one of those deals where they traded some credits back and forth, and wound up making a pretty bad deal for themselves, LOL. I bet they see it very differently in retrospect.


Sterling

Did you get that from an interview thay jy didn't agree to as well. lol

[Toph]

(Since we are on writing credits. On "Show Me the Way" wouldn't Chuck get a writing credit for getting Dennis to change "Roll Me Away" to "Show me the Way" since it was Chucks suggestion to do so. Dennis gave Chuck a thanks but not a writing credit. Would this part of the same or not really?)






Well you see, this is because Dennis is an asshole.

And Tommy doesn't always tell the truth and JY is a curmudgeon...

Like all of us they all have their weaknesses, don't they...

[T-Bone]

Troll Removed

[bugsymalone]

Troll Removed

Thank ya kindly, Sheriff!



Bugsy

[Zan]

Troll Removed

Wow, that was... fast.

[Rockwriter]

Dennis has got to be the sappiest writer trying to pass himself off as a rock star, come one "babe" what the hell is that.
By the way all Dennis did on come sail away was add the piano intro.
In other words, he along with the other guys in Styx made it what it was and then he wreaked it with "Babe". Now Styx have been getting rid of the sappy label Dennis put on them, and they're doing one hell of a job by being way better than they ever have before.

The only part of CSA not written by Dennis was the odyssey written by yourself, JY..

tommy shaw wrote the chorus. it came from an MS Funk song called "aint gettin' down" or something similar to that. so, taking that into consideration, and the fact that JY wrote the middle instrumental section, the only thing dennis wrote were the verses and the bridge. hardly the "solo" effort" he's credited for.

True, the chord progression for the chorus was from Tommy's old song, which Dennis appropriated and modified. And JY wrote the middle instrumental section. But lest we start arguing about them getting screwed, most people around the band seem to agree that they bartered their contributions for credits elsewhere. For instance, JY is credited as the sole writer for "Miss America", when in fact Dennis wrote part of the chorus. It was one of those deals where they traded some credits back and forth, and wound up making a pretty bad deal for themselves, LOL. I bet they see it very differently in retrospect.


Sterling

Did you get that from an interview thay jy didn't agree to as well. lol

Actually, JY said Dennis helped with the chorus idea for "Miss America" in an article about TGI in Classic Rock magazine, and I gathered the rest of it from interviews with people who worked on the actual record or know the band members very well.


Sterling

[Rockwriter]

Since we are on writing credits. On "Show Me the Way" wouldn't Chuck get a writing credit for getting Dennis to change "Roll Me Away" to "Show me the Way" since it was Chucks suggestion to do so. Dennis gave Chuck a thanks but not a writing credit. Would this part of the same or not really?

An interesting question. It differs from one instance to another. In Chuck's book he says that he feels that most songwriters would give someone a co-writing credit for coming up with the title of a song. I say it would vary dramatically from one to another. In this instance my understanding is that the song was finished in terms of chords, melody, verses and chorus parts, and the only change was simply from "roll me away" to "show me the way". That gets into an area that is really undefinined by the intellectual property laws as written.

Here in Nashville, I don't kow how many of you might be familiar with a country song called "Letter From Home". It was Song of the Year a few years ago, earned an absolute fortune in airplay money. Now there is a court case pending between the songwriter and a (former) friend who is claiming in his suit that before the song was written, he had a conversation with his (now former) friend in which they talked about, "Wouldn't it be a great idea for someone to write a song in the format of a soldier in Iraq getting a letter from home?" Then the writer credited actually went and wrote it, with no assistance from the former friend. He wrote the entire chord progression, melody, and lyric with no help. It was not contested until it became a #1 hit, then suddenly the friend believed he had helped come up with the idea, therefore was a co-writer. It is still being fought in court several years later, with the money from the song still in escrow and not paid out to anyone.

It gets into a very tricky area: if this precedent gets set, where does it end? If I watch the news and write a song about a story, does the newscaster become a co-writer? If someone on this board makes a suggestion that I incorporate into my next book, did you co-write that book? It's hard to define. That's kinda how I feel about the situation with SMTW. What Chuck does not make clear in his book is whether he actually ASKED for a credit or not. That would be an interesting question to have answered: did he ask and Dennis said no, or did he not ask, in which case it very well might not have even been a topic for Dennis at all? I don't know a songwriter on Earth who would VOLUNTEER to have another name on his song. It is, after all, an ego-driven endeavor from the word go.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[Toph]

Troll Removed

Thanks!

[Blue Falcon]

You might want to stick to your reviews of washed up sappy lead singers.

Leave Gowan out of this!

[Angiekay]

You might want to stick to your reviews of washed up sappy lead singers.

Leave Gowan out of this!

Wow..you get funnier everyday.


But then again, I lie alot.

[LordofDaRing]

I think the issue on writing credits sometimes comes down to a good suggestion vs. actually having the inspiration of the song. I think Dennis said that Renegade originally sounded throughout the song like the beginning, very slow. It was his suggestion to Tommy to "rock it up". A good suggestion, no writing credit. I would bet he had a hand in the overall sound of Boat on the River, adding the accordion to it. That song made TS a lot of money when it sold well in France. Styx is not the only band that has endured this, George Martin the famous Beatles Producer, suggested on the very first Beatles #1 single Please Please Me that the fab lift the tempo up. I can't imagine hearing that song in a slower key. His work on Strawberry Fields and other songs was incredible, but no writing credit.

[stmonkeys]

I think the issue on writing credits sometimes comes down to a good suggestion vs. actually having the inspiration of the song. I think Dennis said that Renegade originally sounded throughout the song like the beginning, very slow. It was his suggestion to Tommy to "rock it up". A good suggestion, no writing credit. I would bet he had a hand in the overall sound of Boat on the River, adding the accordion to it. That song made TS a lot of money when it sold well in France. Styx is not the only band that has endured this, George Martin the famous Beatles Producer, suggested on the very first Beatles #1 single Please Please Me that the fab lift the tempo up. I can't imagine hearing that song in a slower key. His work on Strawberry Fields and other songs was incredible, but no writing credit.

yes, but now you're treading in a different territory- the job of the producer. changing tempos, arrangements, and instrumentation fall under that category. George Martin orchestrated some amazing sessions. he truly was the 5th beatle. he had the ability and insight to recognize the raw talent, and push them to create a body of work that will forever be the true measure of greatness. remember, producers also get a "credit" so they don't need to worry about competing or infringing upon the songwriter.

[LordofDaRing]

I think you will agree that it is all a very gray territory though. I know the Go Go's insisted that they all share song writing royalty even when one lady was doing most of the writing in that band. I don't think Boat would have been such a massive hit in France without that accordian feel on it, and even though I am not sure I will bet that was not Tommy's first choice to put that instrument on that song. Again, his song, his words, but a key suggestion turns a good album cut into a commercial sucess over seas. I heard the German crowds were going nuts over that a couple of years ago during live shows.