30 Years ago today...

[Jodes]

Babe went to #1 on the Billboard Charts..

That is all..

Carry On..

[Toph]

Let's give Babe the credit it deserves - it brought Styx into the mainstream and let them become the huge band that they became (#1 band in the USA Gallup poll), Grammy nominations, People's Choice Awards, and set the stage for the #1 album Paradise Theatre. The haters tend to conveniently forget these facts in their continual dissing of the song.

[chowhall]

Let's give Babe the credit it deserves - it brought Styx into the mainstream and let them become the huge band that they became (#1 band in the USA Gallup poll), Grammy nominations, People's Choice Awards, and set the stage for the #1 album Paradise Theatre. The haters tend to conveniently forget these facts in their continual dissing of the song.

We don't have to forget that Babe was a number one song to know that it still sucks. Macarena was a number one song too. It has nothing to do whether we like the song or not. Styx was already in the mainstream with GI and POE. Paradise Theatre would have been a hit regardless of Babe. I won't argue that it brought a new listener into the Styx fold, but Babe is a laughing stock for most of the American audience in the same vein as You light up my life and Mandy. Defend it all you want. Styx didn't need to raid Barry Manilow's closet.

[BlackWall]

You mean it's not cool to like "Mandy"?.. Guilty as charged I guess.

Just out of curiosity, are other (power?) ballads from the same time period viewed in such a negative light as "Babe": "Open Arms", "Faithfully", "Can't Fight This Feeling", "Search Is Over"? Is it because Styx was a rock band that did a love song, or because fans really think that "Babe" sucked?

[Everett]

You mean it's not cool to like "Mandy"?.. Guilty as charged I guess. Just out of curiosity, are other (power?) ballads from the same time period viewed in such a negative light as "Babe": "Open Arms", "Faithfully", "Can't Fight This Feeling", "Search Is Over"? Is it because Styx was a rock band that did a love song, or because fans really think that "Babe" sucked?

Don't forget about keep on lovin' you also number one

[yogi]

Has anyone ever done a really dark haunting ballad??

Babe I hate you, Babe I hate you ..................................

[hoagiepete]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

[gr8dane]

Let's give Babe the credit it deserves - it brought Styx into the mainstream and let them become the huge band that they became (#1 band in the USA Gallup poll), Grammy nominations, People's Choice Awards, and set the stage for the #1 album Paradise Theatre. The haters tend to conveniently forget these facts in their continual dissing of the song.

We don't have to forget that Babe was a number one song to know that it still sucks. Macarena was a number one song too. It has nothing to do whether we like the song or not. Styx was already in the mainstream with GI and POE. Paradise Theatre would have been a hit regardless of Babe. I won't argue that it brought a new listener into the Styx fold, but Babe is a laughing stock for most of the American audience in the same vein as You light up my life and Mandy. Defend it all you want. Styx didn't need to raid Barry Manilow's closet.

[KWH17]

ya, why was there not so much backlash at REO for doing ballads? They did WAY more than Styx. [unless there is a backlash that I am ignorant to].

[Everett]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

Slow dances that it? It got me to go all the way with my ex a couple times. I quess that's the only thing i can thank dennis for.

[hoagiepete]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

Slow dances that it? It got me to go all the way with my ex a couple times. I quess that's the only thing i can thank dennis for.

Nah...I didn't have the tape. I'd usually have Best of Bread or maybe Night Moves (Segar) in for that.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

Slow dances that it? It got me to go all the way with my ex a couple times. I quess that's the only thing i can thank dennis for.

Okie Dokie - that's a little TMI

[hoagiepete]

ya, why was there not so much backlash at REO for doing ballads? They did WAY more than Styx. [unless there is a backlash that I am ignorant to].

REO's ballads weren't so sissyfied. They had some pretty good guitar parts that helped make the song and didn't use the wussy synth sound that Babe featured.

[Rockwriter]

ya, why was there not so much backlash at REO for doing ballads? They did WAY more than Styx. [unless there is a backlash that I am ignorant to].

REO's ballads weren't so sissyfied. They had some pretty good guitar parts that helped make the song and didn't use the wussy synth sound that Babe featured.

There's this same stupid, meaningless debate in the fan base of every single band that ever did rock and then did ballads. The thing with "Babe" was simply tremendously, tremendously exacerbated by the fact that some of the actual band members came out and made fun of it in public and refused to play it, which empowered some elements of the fan base that didn't like it to find a reason to dislike it even more. The entire thing gives some slanted misimpression that people generally don't like the song, which simply isn't true. It won the People's Choice Award . . . the only major award that industry offers that THE FANS actually vote on. It also won an award for Song of the Year from Songwriter Magazine, whose readership was almost entirely songwriters. They obviously recognized what a great song of its type it is. I don't seem to recall a bunch of people heading for the exits when Styx played it on the RTP tour, nor when Dennis played it at either of his shows I've been to. I'm not saying it's universally beloved . . . no song is. But the notion that it's a terrible song that people everywhere hate is asinine.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

[Everett]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

Slow dances that it? It got me to go all the way with my ex a couple times. I quess that's the only thing i can thank dennis for.

Okie Dokie - that's a little TMI

TMI what the hell does that mean? lol j/k wouldin't be the first time that tmi has been posted here....

[BlackWall]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

Slow dances that it? It got me to go all the way with my ex a couple times. I quess that's the only thing i can thank dennis for.

You went all the way with Dennis? Don't tell Froy..

[KWH17]

^Where has Froy been anyway? I haven't seem him around recently.


@rockwriter, completely agree. I really like Babe, and prefer it to First Time. The funny thing you made me think of when you said that other band members spoke out against Babe, was that Styx had [and has] a way of sabotaging themselves. Plus, I'm sure if Tommy was told back then that he would later write Yes I Can [which I do really like], he would not have said a damn thing about Babe.

[Everett]

I'll admit it provided for some quality slow dances for me and my girlfriend. That's about all though.

Slow dances that it? It got me to go all the way with my ex a couple times. I quess that's the only thing i can thank dennis for.

You went all the way with Dennis? Don't tell Froy..

Are you freakin kidding me jeez

[Babyblue]

I love the song (Babe)

[chowhall]

There's this same stupid, meaningless debate in the fan base of every single band that ever did rock and then did ballads. The thing with "Babe" was simply tremendously, tremendously exacerbated by the fact that some of the actual band members came out and made fun of it in public and refused to play it, which empowered some elements of the fan base that didn't like it to find a reason to dislike it even more. The entire thing gives some slanted misimpression that people generally don't like the song, which simply isn't true. It won the People's Choice Award . . . the only major award that industry offers that THE FANS actually vote on. It also won an award for Song of the Year from Songwriter Magazine, whose readership was almost entirely songwriters. They obviously recognized what a great song of its type it is. I don't seem to recall a bunch of people heading for the exits when Styx played it on the RTP tour, nor when Dennis played it at either of his shows I've been to. I'm not saying it's universally beloved . . . no song is. But the notion that it's a terrible song that people everywhere hate is asinine.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

Sterling,

No one is saying that Babe is hated everywhere, but at every Styx concert I've attended that it was played, it was the bathroom break or beer run song. It is very typical of 70's schlock that was pervasive at the time. It won awards because Styx makes everything they do polished and competent. The three songs in my opinion that bring the most heat on Styx are Babe, Roboto, and Best of Times. The problem or credit to Styx is that all three are major hits that define a band. Styx had enough skill and talent to stay within their genre to become megastars without having to venture into Debbie Boone territory.

[Everett]

What about don't let it end? I think that song falls under that catergory. Personaly don't like the song just the quitar solo same goes for babe

[Higgy]

There's this same stupid, meaningless debate in the fan base of every single band that ever did rock and then did ballads. The thing with "Babe" was simply tremendously, tremendously exacerbated by the fact that some of the actual band members came out and made fun of it in public and refused to play it, which empowered some elements of the fan base that didn't like it to find a reason to dislike it even more. The entire thing gives some slanted misimpression that people generally don't like the song, which simply isn't true. It won the People's Choice Award . . . the only major award that industry offers that THE FANS actually vote on. It also won an award for Song of the Year from Songwriter Magazine, whose readership was almost entirely songwriters. They obviously recognized what a great song of its type it is. I don't seem to recall a bunch of people heading for the exits when Styx played it on the RTP tour, nor when Dennis played it at either of his shows I've been to. I'm not saying it's universally beloved . . . no song is. But the notion that it's a terrible song that people everywhere hate is asinine.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

Sterling,

No one is saying that Babe is hated everywhere, but at every Styx concert I've attended that it was played, it was the bathroom break or beer run song. It is very typical of 70's schlock that was pervasive at the time. It won awards because Styx makes everything they do polished and competent. The three songs in my opinion that bring the most heat on Styx are Babe, Roboto, and Best of Times. The problem or credit to Styx is that all three are major hits that define a band. Styx had enough skill and talent to stay within their genre to become megastars without having to venture into Debbie Boone territory.

This is absolutely a completely idiotic statement. When Babe gets played (in real Styx shows), it gets a mountain of applause and people love it. Why do you keep associating the song with Barry Manilow, Debbie Boone, etc? It has absolutly nothing to do with them. Why don't you level the same sort of venom against shit like She Cares or Just Get Through This Night or Little Girl World? The bathroom break songs at Styx concerts are Snowblind and Miss America. The fact is that when JY sings a song, it just feels like everyone is humoring him. Lets watch the shithead pretend he's a rocker.

[Rockwriter]

There's this same stupid, meaningless debate in the fan base of every single band that ever did rock and then did ballads. The thing with "Babe" was simply tremendously, tremendously exacerbated by the fact that some of the actual band members came out and made fun of it in public and refused to play it, which empowered some elements of the fan base that didn't like it to find a reason to dislike it even more. The entire thing gives some slanted misimpression that people generally don't like the song, which simply isn't true. It won the People's Choice Award . . . the only major award that industry offers that THE FANS actually vote on. It also won an award for Song of the Year from Songwriter Magazine, whose readership was almost entirely songwriters. They obviously recognized what a great song of its type it is. I don't seem to recall a bunch of people heading for the exits when Styx played it on the RTP tour, nor when Dennis played it at either of his shows I've been to. I'm not saying it's universally beloved . . . no song is. But the notion that it's a terrible song that people everywhere hate is asinine.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

Sterling,

No one is saying that Babe is hated everywhere, but at every Styx concert I've attended that it was played, it was the bathroom break or beer run song. It is very typical of 70's schlock that was pervasive at the time. It won awards because Styx makes everything they do polished and competent. The three songs in my opinion that bring the most heat on Styx are Babe, Roboto, and Best of Times. The problem or credit to Styx is that all three are major hits that define a band. Styx had enough skill and talent to stay within their genre to become megastars without having to venture into Debbie Boone territory.

I can only say that at the concerts I have attended that was simply not at all the case. Here's a question: why do so many people who like rock music associate normal, everyday human sentiment with "schlock"? It's as if you have to make a choice to be either a "cool rock guy" (which NONE of the Styx guys are by the way) or experience the normal course of human emotions, which is ridiculously stupid at best and at worst, it limits the kinds of songs a band is capable of performing.

Here's a hard and potentially unpopular truth for the Styx guys: if they had continued the course they started with TGI and Po8 in 1979 with another album in that vein, the likely scenario is that the band would have taken a huge downturn because that kind of stuff was over at radio and retail at that point. Look at the bands that began to decline then, it's the ones who tried to stay that course. Look at the ones who continued to move forward, it's the ones - like Styx, REO, Foreigner, Journey - who made changes in response to market conditions. In my view - and I think you can look this up for yourself and establish it as historical fact rather than opinion - ballads didn't hurt these bands any, but rather bought them another 3-5 years they would not have had otherwise. That's the way of the world, Dennis just happened to excel in that in a way the other guys did not and it caused resentment, as success always does.

Tell me this: if the other guys were really so dead-set against ballads, such "purists" as it were, why then did Tommy have as his second single "Lonely School"? Why did JY put "Waiting" on his solo record? The only possible answer is that they recognized that people like that kind of stuff and they wanted in on it. Dennis' crime was simply that he wrote that kind of thing better and succeeded too much. How silly. This is an issue in every band as I said before, but at least the REO, Journey and Foreigner guys recognize the value of what they have, regardless of whether it is their personal taste or not.

I interviewed Kelly Hansen recently, and in talking about singing in Foreigner he was saying how he and Jeff Pilson and other "new" guys in Foreigner are grateful for how many popular hits there are in the set, because each of them comes to the band from a background in which they either had no hits, or just one or two and they had to play a whole set to get to those songs. He said how great it is that they all recognize the value of going out there with a set full of hits. REO does it. Journey does it. Of all the bands of that ilk, only Styx outright refuses to meet the needs of certain fans by playing its own hit catalogue. There's a degree of arrogance that drives that decision that I have always found ridiculous. There's a reason why you can hardly name one single solitary other band in the history of music that doesn't play its own biggest hits live. You know what it is? Because it's stupid. Some band members don't like it whenever I say that - which I have before and will again - but it's the truth.

Sterling

[hoagiepete]

Geez...I was just giving an opinion as to why Styx gets shit for ballads like Babe and REO doesn't.

Can't Fight this Feeling uses piano, Babe has that (in my opinion...) whimpy sounding synth. Can't Fight this Feeling has a pretty good guitar hook, Babe has a little guitar build to nowhere. Another comparison would be Journey's ballads that all have a killer piece by Schon, etc. etc.

I never stated I hate Babe...if I heard it at a dance or concert, I would still dance with my wife. That is about the only place I'd enjoy it though. You're not going to have a bunch of rock and roll fans whooping it up when they play Babe in concert.

Now on the other hand, if you consider Lady a ballad, I think it is one of the all-time greatest. Nothing sissy about that!!!!

[BlackWall]

What about don't let it end? I think that song falls under that catergory. Personaly don't like the song just the quitar solo same goes for babe

Even though "Don't Let It End" was a top ten hit, I don't think it's really popular enough for people to hate it..(makes perfect sense, right?.. )

Also, to me,it seems to fall somewhere between a ballad and a rocker. The chorus picks up quite a bit, but the lyrics certainly are in style with "Babe" and "TBOT".

[pinkfloyd1973]

What about don't let it end? I think that song falls under that catergory. Personaly don't like the song just the quitar solo same goes for babe

Even though "Don't Let It End" was a top ten hit, I don't think it's really popular enough for people to hate it..(makes perfect sense, right?.. )

Also, to me,it seems to fall somewhere between a ballad and a rocker. The chorus picks up quite a bit, but the lyrics certainly are in style with "Babe" and "TBOT".

Yet I still get a chill everytime Dennis hits that high note in DLIE


Robin (who happens to love "Babe")

[chowhall]

[quote="RockwriterJTell me this: if the other guys were really so dead-set against ballads, such "purists" as it were, why then did Tommy have as his second single "Lonely School"? Why did JY put "Waiting" on his solo record? The only possible answer is that they recognized that people like that kind of stuff and they wanted in on it. Dennis' crime was simply that he wrote that kind of thing better and succeeded too much. How silly. This is an issue in every band as I said before, but at least the REO, Journey and Foreigner guys recognize the value of what they have, regardless of whether it is their personal taste or not.

My distaste for Babe is not a distaste for Dennis. Tommy's ballads suck worse than Dennis' on almost all levels. When I was in the beer line during Babe at the double digit Styx concerts I attended that I was fortunate to see the Classic lineup, I had lots of company. Just not my style during a rock concert, which a Styx show predominately is. I don't miss Gowan trying to sing Babe in the current lineup at all. First of all, I don't like the song, second Gowan wouldn't do it justice, and third is the Tommy and JY angle. You were asking what bands don't play their biggest hits. This is a question since I have never attended a Kiss concert, but do they sing "Beth" live? I'm sure I wouldn't like that either.

[bugsymalone]

Thank you, Sterling, for coming to the defense of the kind of music nearly everyone secretly can love, but can seemingly never openly admit to it. Many popular rock bands, for the most part, needed to appeal to a wider audience to move past limited success and get on the charts and get album sales and fill seats at concerts. Styx was no exception, but it somewhat happened by accident, since history shows that "Babe" was not part of an original plan to be on any album. As it is, it is a song that is basically all Dennis anyway.

While I appreciate the song (which is nowhere NEAR as schlocky as it is portrayed) it is not among my favorite of Dennis' ballads. Part of the problem is the intro, which, sadly, is due to his not having an in-tune piano available. I always prefer the versions I have heard where he uses the piano to play the intro. It is a heartfelt goodbye song, pure and simple, and that is why I think it appealed to the many people who made it a hit.

I heard an interview with Richard Carpenter recently on NPR's "Fresh Air" and he was extremely defensive about the place in the world for beautiful songs. I really agreed with what he had to say since I feel all full albums and concerts benefit from a variety of music and, if a lovely ballad finds its way there, and it is a good one, I have no problem with that.

I think "Babe" is a song that suffered, in later years, from the negative buzz around it, not the least of it coming from some members of the band to which it is credited.

Bugsy

[Toph]

Thank you, Sterling, for coming to the defense of the kind of music nearly everyone secretly can love, but can seemingly never openly admit to it. Many popular rock bands, for the most part, needed to appeal to a wider audience to move past limited success and get on the charts and get album sales and fill seats at concerts. Styx was no exception, but it somewhat happened by accident, since history shows that "Babe" was not part of an original plan to be on any album. As it is, it is a song that is basically all Dennis anyway.

While I appreciate the song (which is nowhere NEAR as schlocky as it is portrayed) it is not among my favorite of Dennis' ballads. Part of the problem is the intro, which, sadly, is due to his not having an in-tune piano available. I always prefer the versions I have heard where he uses the piano to play the intro. It is a heartfelt goodbye song, pure and simple, and that is why I think it appealed to the many people who made it a hit.

I heard an interview with Richard Carpenter recently on NPR's "Fresh Air" and he was extremely defensive about the place in the world for beautiful songs. I really agreed with what he had to say since I feel all full albums and concerts benefit from a variety of music and, if a lovely ballad finds its way there, and it is a good one, I have no problem with that.

I think "Babe" is a song that suffered, in later years, from the negative buzz around it, not the least of it coming from some members of the band to which it is credited.

Bugsy

The difference between styx and their ballads and Journey/REO/Foreigner and their ballads, is that those other bands never made an excuse for their ballads. Members of those bands never went out there and publically trashed THEIR OWN SONGS! Some members of Styx fueled the flames that are evident even today - and that is what I find fault with. How can you criticize something that in effect was your bread and butter? How can you slap the face of so many fans who love those songs and consider them part of their lives? How can you basically pretend that most of your top 10 singles never existed (think about it - does current Styx mention - SMTW, Babe, Best of Times, Roboto, DLIE beyond criticizing it?) The reason that they are able to even tour today has a lot to do with those songs, and they sit back and look a gift horse in the mouth with their constant criticism of those songs. And by doing it, offend the fans that like those songs - portraying them as being "wimps" or inferior because they like those songs that the band members themselves choose to publically lambast. It is a stupid, stupid strategy.

Say what you want about Babe, but it is one of the few Styx songs that is played on any stations besides classic rock stations today. And as Sterling said, it enabled them to survive another 4 years that they never would have survived with another tired old rehash of Pieces of 8.

[yogi]

What bands stayed the course and died because of it?

BTO?? - They were already dead- They never had a piano or synth

I havent a clue as to what bands Sterling is refering to.

I also dont see that much of a difference between The Grand Illusion/ Pieces Of Eight/ and Cornerstone. To me the difference was Dennis added a ballad ( 2 ballads on a record) Tommy actually had the biggest musical change with Boat On The River- To me that is the song that by faaaarrrrrrr strayed the most from the Styx sound. Lights, Never Say Never Borrowed Time, Why Me, Eddie, Love In The Midnight all pretty much fit into the Styx mold- a little lighter but they still fit.


The album where they went off the deep end was the techno sounding Kilroy Was Here & that killed the band- Roboto, Cold War & High Time were a death blow to a rock band.

As I have stated a thousand times the Kilroy Concert was their BEST ever the album was by far their worst.


I really would like to know from Sterling what bands died around 1979-1981 because they wouldnt go ballad or they didnt go fluffier??