Gowan interview

[StyxCollector]

That's a half truth, actually. From what I understood Dennis receives most of the album royalties so the rest of the band MUST tour to make money. So, yeah, what you say above IS a huge part of the problem...When Dennis cuts tours short to pay attention to Hunchback, causing the rest of the band to lose money, of course that is going to be a huge strike against him. When Dennis says he can't tour because of light sensitivity, of course that is going to be a huge problem. Dennis can sit on his ass and dream about musicals and still get paid for past albums...while others NEED to tour to earn a paycheck. Either he's a team player and has Styx as his priority, or he is distracted by other things and can't give enough time to Styx. As I see it, the latter is what got him replaced, and his lawsuit is what got him permanently fired. Get over it.

You can't be that naive. This is the way it works - band member writes hits, he gets paid. It's not Dennis' fault he wrote most of the popular tunes. So while Dennis can make money off of things like publishing, the other guys clearly do not make as much as he does. That doesn't mean he needs to be on the road to make it more even for everyone else. No band has ever worked that way. Dennis has never loved to be on the road a ton, even going back to the 70s. Personally, I think going out back to back years in 1996 and 1997 didn't help them, and the audience attendance showed (I saw them enough on both tours). Had they gone away after 1996, taken a break, recorded the album at their pace, and come back with BNW but a coherent effort, you may still have Styx. It's not how it played out. The old stuff crept back in.

Now, to play the other side of the coin, had the others invested and saved (JY did, but clearly he didn't make the bank DDY did), you wouldn't have the incessant touring Styx has done since 1999. It's no secret that Tommy in the past was not as good with his money, but he's clearly doing better now, although he should be getting decent royalties from Styx, DY, and the various other things.

Bands are about give and take. All bands have drama. It doesn't make any one side more right or wrong, but success is the root of all evils. Dennis had more than anyone in Styx, and it was inevitable it would blew up. It did 3x (1979, 1984, 1999), and probably other times we didn't know about.

[StyxCollector]

Exactly monker styx didn't screw dennis dennis screwed dennis

No, they all are to blame. Tensions that tore the band apart in 1979 and 1984 reared their ugly heads again. Dennis and JY actually were good for Styx - JY is more the business guy, while DDY arguably had the biggest hand in the music of Styx. It was a good balance that worked more than it didn't. Unfortunately, after 1997, the third time wasn't the charm. It's like any long term marriage that ends in divorce. I don't think it's really any more complicated than that. The fact they made it work on some level for so long is impressive. Had Styx not even reunited in 1996 we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Everett]

Exactly monker styx didn't screw dennis dennis screwed dennis

No, they all are to blame. Tensions that tore the band apart in 1979 and 1984 reared their ugly heads again. Dennis and JY actually were good for Styx - JY is more the business guy, while DDY arguably had the biggest hand in the music of Styx. It was a good balance that worked more than it didn't. Unfortunately, after 1997, the third time wasn't the charm. It's like any long term marriage that ends in divorce. I don't think it's really any more complicated than that. The fact they made it work on some level for so long is impressive. Had Styx not even reunited in 1996 we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I was referring to the lawsuit and the chances dennis had of returning because of that. What i wanna know is why he didn't pass on hunchback did he really have to do it?

[StyxCollector]

I was referring to the lawsuit and the chances dennis had of returning because of that. What i wanna know is why he didn't pass on hunchback did he really have to do it?

For example, if you sued your employer for sexual harassment, do you think they'd be in love with you? Both sides forced each others hands and someone had to move a piece on the proverbial chess board. The lawsuit, for all of its ugly, put an end to the situation and let them both move forward. In my mind, it was more productive than not.

Whether he had to or he didn't, he wanted to do Hunchback. Did Styx have to tour in 1997? No. Same argument. Then you factor in things like DDY's Dad dying and such, and 1997/98 becomes no fun for him on any level.

We can go around and around. Dennis is not the devil incarnate, nor is JY the worst guy ever.

[Monker]

[
You can't be that naive. This is the way it works - band member writes hits, he gets paid. It's not Dennis' fault he wrote most of the popular tunes.

I said NOTHING about singles. I said albums.

Again, from what I understand, after Edge, Dennis received the lions share of the profit from the albums, and the other members got paid from touring. So, the pressure from everybody was to tour because they were not making money from the albums.

So while Dennis can make money off of things like publishing, the other guys clearly do not make as much as he does.

Not my point. He also made the money off of the sale of the albums themselves, and whatever for signing bonus. In trade, he didn't make anything off of touring. This is a completely separate from songwriting royalties.

I think going out back to back years in 1996 and 1997 didn't help them, and the audience attendance showed (I saw them enough on both tours). Had they gone away after 1996, taken a break, recorded the album at their pace, and come back with BNW but a coherent effort, you may still have Styx. It's not how it played out. The old stuff crept back in.

That would have never happened. If they had taken time off, Dennis would have went full time into Hunchback. Even during his first solo tour, he was not only performing Hunchback but pitching the idea of a public television production of it. THAT is where his main interest was, NOT Styx, not even solo music.

I had a good friend tell me once that when Dennis spoke about Hunchback, Dennis said he was more excited about this then anything he has ever done. Really? More excited for that then GI? Or even his baby Kilroy? More excited the reunion tour which was happening at the time?

You can spin this however you want but you'll never convince me that his interest in Hunchback and how it conflicted with Styx was THE major factor in the split. Combine that with the band not making money unless they toured, and Dennis refusing to tour, and you have the makings of your 'divorce'.

Now, to play the other side of the coin, had the others invested and saved (JY did, but clearly he didn't make the bank DDY did), you wouldn't have the incessant touring Styx has done since 1999.

I disagree...because when the back catalog sells, they make squat. Again, they have to tour to make any real money. It is a situation DENNIS insisted on when Styx came back for EotC. Neither Edge nor BNW made the BAND any money - the tours did.

[Monker]

Exactly monker styx didn't screw dennis dennis screwed dennis

No, they all are to blame. Tensions that tore the band apart in 1979 and 1984 reared their ugly heads again. Dennis and JY actually were good for Styx - JY is more the business guy, while DDY arguably had the biggest hand in the music of Styx. It was a good balance that worked more than it didn't. Unfortunately, after 1997, the third time wasn't the charm. It's like any long term marriage that ends in divorce. I don't think it's really any more complicated than that. The fact they made it work on some level for so long is impressive. Had Styx not even reunited in 1996 we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I was referring to the lawsuit and the chances dennis had of returning because of that. What i wanna know is why he didn't pass on hunchback did he really have to do it?

Yes, he HAD to do it because it was ALL his. If he had the choice of sharing a stage with Styx and doing a Hunchback production that was ALL HIS, why would he not choose Hunchback?

[Monker]

Did Styx have to tour in 1997

YES, THEY DID...if they wanted to make any money they HAD to tour.

[chowhall]

Did Styx have to tour in 1997

YES, THEY DID...if they wanted to make any money they HAD to tour.

I believe in one of Dennis's interviews he stated that he did not want to tour in 1997. but he did because one of the band members was in financial distress and so he agreed to it.

[Higgy]

Exactly monker styx didn't screw dennis dennis screwed dennis

No, they all are to blame. Tensions that tore the band apart in 1979 and 1984 reared their ugly heads again. Dennis and JY actually were good for Styx - JY is more the business guy, while DDY arguably had the biggest hand in the music of Styx. It was a good balance that worked more than it didn't. Unfortunately, after 1997, the third time wasn't the charm. It's like any long term marriage that ends in divorce. I don't think it's really any more complicated than that. The fact they made it work on some level for so long is impressive. Had Styx not even reunited in 1996 we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I was referring to the lawsuit and the chances dennis had of returning because of that. What i wanna know is why he didn't pass on hunchback did he really have to do it?

Yes, he HAD to do it because it was ALL his. If he had the choice of sharing a stage with Styx and doing a Hunchback production that was ALL HIS, why would he not choose Hunchback?

So Dennis has a choice, in the late 90s, to put most of his effort into nostalgia touring with a band that realistically didn't have a chance at being mainstream successful - or, to pursue something like Hunchback, where his career would be progressing. I don't begrudge the guy for a SECOND for putting more stock into that one.
I guarantee you that Tommy was more excited about 7 Deadly Zens than he was about Brave New World. I also guarantee you that Tommy was more excited about Damn Yankees than Styx - so excited that he chose them over Styx. So? What the fuck does that matter, Monker? I know you "have a friend" that told you that DDY was excited about Hunchback. WHo gives a shit? Does that change the fact that Tommy and JY collectively fisted the guy as soon as they had a chance to push him overboard?
I think you're all forgetting both Tommy and JY turned their backs of DDY's direction for Brave New World and decided to make their own album together, throwing in a few DDY songs for good measure - THAT one turned out well!! So it wasn't like DDY was saying "I'll give you scraps for Brave New World", it was that his ideas weren't being used - witness the cover debacle.

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

[Monker]

So Dennis has a choice, in the late 90s, to put most of his effort into nostalgia touring with a band that realistically didn't have a chance at being mainstream successful - or, to pursue something like Hunchback, where his career would be progressing. I don't begrudge the guy for a SECOND for putting more stock into that one.
I guarantee you that Tommy was more excited about 7 Deadly Zens than he was about Brave New World. I also guarantee you that Tommy was more excited about Damn Yankees than Styx - so excited that he chose them over Styx. So? What the fuck does that matter, Monker? I know you "have a friend" that told you that DDY was excited about Hunchback. WHo gives a shit? Does that change the fact that Tommy and JY collectively fisted the guy as soon as they had a chance to push him overboard?
I think you're all forgetting both Tommy and JY turned their backs of DDY's direction for Brave New World and decided to make their own album together, throwing in a few DDY songs for good measure - THAT one turned out well!! So it wasn't like DDY was saying "I'll give you scraps for Brave New World", it was that his ideas weren't being used - witness the cover debacle.

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

To go back to froy's analogy. Assuming you work at a full time job...take half your work time and spend it pursuing some personal ambition that does not benefit the corporation you work for. Put so much time and effort into it that it causes exhaustion and makes you sick. See how long it takes before they fire you.

I don't think that is a 'wrong' decision at all...it was a selfish and self-serving one...but the correct one. It is just as selfish and self-serving as is your point that Dennis wanted to take control of BNW as if his ideas were the only ones that mattered and were "Styx"...the very situation that caused all the tension and eventual breakup in the 80's. So, Dennis cried when he listened to it cuz it didn't sound enough like Styx to him...because he didn't control all of production and sound...as if his magical touch could make it all turn to platinum. Boohoo. Even at this time, what does he submit for the album? A Hunchback song. Even if Dennis had complete control again, I doubt it would have mattered much. Well, maybe we would have had more Hunchback on BNW. In the end, the rest of the band would STILL not be happy...especially when it came time to tour.

Your comparisons to Tommy are irrelevant...Tommy was not in Styx while in DY. He was not splitting his effort in Styx while doing 7DZ. His attention was focused on whatever his job was at the time...not split between that and something else unrelated. If Hunchback is what Dennis TRULY wanted, that's fine...then he should have let go of Styx and let them continue on without him.

[Zan]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

[StyxCollector]

[
You can't be that naive. This is the way it works - band member writes hits, he gets paid. It's not Dennis' fault he wrote most of the popular tunes.

I said NOTHING about singles. I said albums.

Again, from what I understand, after Edge, Dennis received the lions share of the profit from the albums, and the other members got paid from touring. So, the pressure from everybody was to tour because they were not making money from the albums.

Again, it all goes back to publishing. Yes, they all get some sort of percentage of album sales, but songwriters also get publishing based on album sales, too. You clearly don't understand the music industry. Do you think someone like Diane Warren is filthy rich off of album sales? Hell no. It goes back to in any given band - not just Styx - songwriters have the power.

So while Dennis can make money off of things like publishing, the other guys clearly do not make as much as he does.

Not my point. He also made the money off of the sale of the albums themselves, and whatever for signing bonus. In trade, he didn't make anything off of touring. This is a completely separate from songwriting royalties.

Again, you don't understand the economics of how the music industry works. It's publishing and touring, not album sales, unless you sell like a gajillion. Even then, there are costs to recoup (i.e. recording, etc.).

I don't know about you, but I saw all of the legal agreements before the lawsuit was sealed. It was more equitable than you think, but what was true then is true now: touring is potentially lucrative, but not as much long term as someone who has hit singles and can get paid for eternity on them.

Dennis made money off of touring. Are you high?

I think going out back to back years in 1996 and 1997 didn't help them, and the audience attendance showed (I saw them enough on both tours). Had they gone away after 1996, taken a break, recorded the album at their pace, and come back with BNW but a coherent effort, you may still have Styx. It's not how it played out. The old stuff crept back in.

That would have never happened. If they had taken time off, Dennis would have went full time into Hunchback. Even during his first solo tour, he was not only performing Hunchback but pitching the idea of a public television production of it. THAT is where his main interest was, NOT Styx, not even solo music.

I had a good friend tell me once that when Dennis spoke about Hunchback, Dennis said he was more excited about this then anything he has ever done. Really? More excited for that then GI? Or even his baby Kilroy? More excited the reunion tour which was happening at the time?

Most people grow up, mature, and change. Whether that is perceived as good or bad by others is a different story. While I like some of the music and such I did when I was 16, I don't like all of it. Dennis didn't want to write another GI or have that at that point in his life. As human beings, we tend to be excited about what new things we're doing now, not living on nostalgia. Why do you think most musicians today struggle who have had success (Styx and DDY included)? Do you think they really don't want to play new music? Of course they do, but the fans just want to hear the hits. DDY has talked about that.

You can spin this however you want but you'll never convince me that his interest in Hunchback and how it conflicted with Styx was THE major factor in the split. Combine that with the band not making money unless they toured, and Dennis refusing to tour, and you have the makings of your 'divorce'.

Yawn. Your argument is wrong, old, and tired.

Now, to play the other side of the coin, had the others invested and saved (JY did, but clearly he didn't make the bank DDY did), you wouldn't have the incessant touring Styx has done since 1999.

I disagree...because when the back catalog sells, they make squat. Again, they have to tour to make any real money. It is a situation DENNIS insisted on when Styx came back for EotC. Neither Edge nor BNW made the BAND any money - the tours did.

The other guys not making money has nothing to do with albums. It has to do with songwriting. More songs, more hits = more money.

And having seen the '91 paperwork, they all signed it willingly for the '91 tour and such. So you can blame Dennis all you want, JY, CP, JP, et al. all willingly signed paper work of their own free will to do EotC and its tour. JY, GB, and DDY continued to work together after on the Son of Edge stuff.

Your arguments hold no weight and are not based in any form of reality.

[StyxCollector]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

Zan is right here. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion.

[StyxCollector]

Did Styx have to tour in 1997

YES, THEY DID...if they wanted to make any money they HAD to tour.

I believe in one of Dennis's interviews he stated that he did not want to tour in 1997. but he did because one of the band members was in financial distress and so he agreed to it.

100% correct. DDY not only didn't want to tour two years in a row (but did to help one of the band members out ... what an asshole for doing that!), but thought in general it was a bad idea (he may have even said that in my interview, but he did talk about it).

[Babyblue]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

True and you can say the same for journey to go on with out Perry.

[froy]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

True and you can say the same for journey to go on with out Perry.

Not even close
They waited 2 years for Perry
Shaw waited 5 min

[froy]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

Zan is right here. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion.

CD sales show its dead wrong
JRNY sells more cds that STYX hands down now
In fact Styx has just given up trying

[froy]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

FACT

[froy]

Did Styx have to tour in 1997

YES, THEY DID...if they wanted to make any money ]

And they had to tour in 99 2000 2001 2002 2003 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Money is the reason they ran away from Dennis THAT IS FACT

[Toph]

[
You can't be that naive. This is the way it works - band member writes hits, he gets paid. It's not Dennis' fault he wrote most of the popular tunes.

I said NOTHING about singles. I said albums.

Again, from what I understand, after Edge, Dennis received the lions share of the profit from the albums, and the other members got paid from touring. So, the pressure from everybody was to tour because they were not making money from the albums.

So while Dennis can make money off of things like publishing, the other guys clearly do not make as much as he does.

Not my point. He also made the money off of the sale of the albums themselves, and whatever for signing bonus. In trade, he didn't make anything off of touring. This is a completely separate from songwriting royalties.

I think going out back to back years in 1996 and 1997 didn't help them, and the audience attendance showed (I saw them enough on both tours). Had they gone away after 1996, taken a break, recorded the album at their pace, and come back with BNW but a coherent effort, you may still have Styx. It's not how it played out. The old stuff crept back in.

That would have never happened. If they had taken time off, Dennis would have went full time into Hunchback. Even during his first solo tour, he was not only performing Hunchback but pitching the idea of a public television production of it. THAT is where his main interest was, NOT Styx, not even solo music.

I had a good friend tell me once that when Dennis spoke about Hunchback, Dennis said he was more excited about this then anything he has ever done. Really? More excited for that then GI? Or even his baby Kilroy? More excited the reunion tour which was happening at the time?

You can spin this however you want but you'll never convince me that his interest in Hunchback and how it conflicted with Styx was THE major factor in the split. Combine that with the band not making money unless they toured, and Dennis refusing to tour, and you have the makings of your 'divorce'.

Now, to play the other side of the coin, had the others invested and saved (JY did, but clearly he didn't make the bank DDY did), you wouldn't have the incessant touring Styx has done since 1999.

I disagree...because when the back catalog sells, they make squat. Again, they have to tour to make any real money. It is a situation DENNIS insisted on when Styx came back for EotC. Neither Edge nor BNW made the BAND any money - the tours did.

To date Edge has sold over 600,000 copies and over 1 million worldwide - they made some coin on that album.

[Toph]

Did Styx have to tour in 1997

YES, THEY DID...if they wanted to make any money they HAD to tour.

I believe in one of Dennis's interviews he stated that he did not want to tour in 1997. but he did because one of the band members was in financial distress and so he agreed to it.

This could have been Chuck as I'm sure he was getting hammered by AIDS drugs....or it could have been Tommy too. You know though, he didn't have to tour in 1997 - it was never part of the initial deal - but he did it to help out a fellow band member....this tends to go against the story that some of you like to portray about him...

[Toph]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

Zan is right here. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion.

CD sales show its dead wrong
JRNY sells more cds that STYX hands down now
In fact Styx has just given up trying

No doubt that Journey knows how to sell its back catalog - Styx/Styx management/A&M is really incompetent at doing that...the fact that Journey has remastered their stuff at least 2 times and included bonus tracks on albums while Styx has sat on their hands is really pathetic.

[Toph]

Did Styx have to tour in 1997

YES, THEY DID...if they wanted to make any money they HAD to tour.

I believe in one of Dennis's interviews he stated that he did not want to tour in 1997. but he did because one of the band members was in financial distress and so he agreed to it.

100% correct. DDY not only didn't want to tour two years in a row (but did to help one of the band members out ... what an asshole for doing that!), but thought in general it was a bad idea (he may have even said that in my interview, but he did talk about it).

I agree. I think the GI tour was a mistake - at least when it occurred - they could have waited a year or two and then been back with a bit more freshness. I know they hit Atlanta 2 times within 10 months - DDY even said that old stage during the GI tour. That is oversaturation...same problem the band has now...

[Everett]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

True and you can say the same for journey to go on with out Perry.

Not even close
They waited 2 years for Perry
Shaw waited 5 min

It's close enough. Dennis himself said they waited a year and a half for him to get better.

[Toph]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

True and you can say the same for journey to go on with out Perry.

Not even close
They waited 2 years for Perry
Shaw waited 5 min

It's close enough. Dennis himself said they waited a year and a half for him to get better.

Get your facts right - you're wrong. He asked them to wait and they didn't. They even rushed to get a shitty sounding album out there. They didn't wait at all.

[Everett]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

True and you can say the same for journey to go on with out Perry.

Not even close
They waited 2 years for Perry
Shaw waited 5 min

It's close enough. Dennis himself said they waited a year and a half for him to get better.

Get your facts right - you're wrong. He asked them to wait and they didn't. They even rushed to get a shitty sounding album out there. They didn't wait at all.

Check out on youtube the clips from the private sessions show he did last november, he mentions it in the part where they discuss the breakup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnlLwbiGLY

[Rockwriter]

That's a half truth, actually. From what I understood Dennis receives most of the album royalties so the rest of the band MUST tour to make money. So, yeah, what you say above IS a huge part of the problem...When Dennis cuts tours short to pay attention to Hunchback, causing the rest of the band to lose money, of course that is going to be a huge strike against him. When Dennis says he can't tour because of light sensitivity, of course that is going to be a huge problem. Dennis can sit on his ass and dream about musicals and still get paid for past albums...while others NEED to tour to earn a paycheck. Either he's a team player and has Styx as his priority, or he is distracted by other things and can't give enough time to Styx. As I see it, the latter is what got him replaced, and his lawsuit is what got him permanently fired. Get over it.

You can't be that naive. This is the way it works - band member writes hits, he gets paid. It's not Dennis' fault he wrote most of the popular tunes. So while Dennis can make money off of things like publishing, the other guys clearly do not make as much as he does. That doesn't mean he needs to be on the road to make it more even for everyone else. No band has ever worked that way. Dennis has never loved to be on the road a ton, even going back to the 70s. Personally, I think going out back to back years in 1996 and 1997 didn't help them, and the audience attendance showed (I saw them enough on both tours). Had they gone away after 1996, taken a break, recorded the album at their pace, and come back with BNW but a coherent effort, you may still have Styx. It's not how it played out. The old stuff crept back in.

Now, to play the other side of the coin, had the others invested and saved (JY did, but clearly he didn't make the bank DDY did), you wouldn't have the incessant touring Styx has done since 1999. It's no secret that Tommy in the past was not as good with his money, but he's clearly doing better now, although he should be getting decent royalties from Styx, DY, and the various other things.

Bands are about give and take. All bands have drama. It doesn't make any one side more right or wrong, but success is the root of all evils. Dennis had more than anyone in Styx, and it was inevitable it would blew up. It did 3x (1979, 1984, 1999), and probably other times we didn't know about.

Just to add my to cents' worth, OF COURSE Dennis made more money from publishing, because he wrote more hits. Simple enough. It's that way in every band. As far as the past, in the "classic" era of Styx they had an agreement in which each guy earned an equal share of album sales, as all bands do pretty much. Dennis did not make more from album sales. That's false. Now later on, after EOTC, he made more because he was sole producer and a producer earns points, but that does not affect the classic era. In the prime years the band also collectively owned a publishing company and when it became clear that Dennis was emerging as the dominant commercial writer, they came up with an agreement where the writer of a song - whomever it was - would own 100 percent of the writer's half of the song, while the other half was split five ways equally. None of the writers had to agree to do that, they did it to try to make things a bit more equal for the non-writing members. For JY what he gave up on his songs and what he earned off Tommy's and Dennis', he probably came out ahead. Tommy probably came out about equal or a little bit ahead. Dennis gave up way more then he earned back because his songs had the most radio success. Again, only later on, from EOTC on did that change, and from then on each participating songwriter owned his own songs. By the way, does that mean JY screwed the band? Or how about Glen Burtnik, did he screw John and Chuck? Because I don't think they earned publishing money from his tunes either. If we're going to apply that standard, let's apply it to everyone, not selectively to demonize one person only.

As far as Dennis not earning money from touring, well of course he earned his slice from touring. Why in the world would he not? He was one of the principal owners of the name and one of the officers of the holding company, why would he not earn money from the exploitation of that trademark? That makes no sense at all. I think there might be a misunderstanding of some of the terms of the EOTC agreement. In that agreement as I recall (and I'm not looking at it right now) Dennis' money from the tour was tied to completing a certain number of dates. It's a tradeoff that was probably made to offset his earning the producer's percentage. It didn't affect anything thereafter. Does anyone really believe, if he didn't earn money from touring, there would have ever been any tours that involved him? Only an idiot would go out and work like that and not get paid his portion. And Dennis is no idiot.

And yes, Dennis had contracts in place to do Hunchback and investors had already kicked money in before Styx got back together. He did in fact have a financial and legal obligation to do it, and in fact had put it off to do some Styx things that came up in the meantime.

Lastly, I continue to be puzzled by why people have such a weird, deep-seated need to demonize people they don't know over things that don't even really concern them. It's just plain unhealthy, not to mention absurd. Everyone in Styx is just a human being, which means they are our fellow idiots with the same strengths and weaknesses and self-interest as everyone else has. They struggle to do the best they can in the circumstances and frequently fall short, as we all do. They are no better or worse, individually or colletively, than anyone else living on Earth. The need to see one side as "right" and "good", and the other side as "bad" and "wrong", is a fan's projection, either way. It's really, really weird to me that anyone does not see that after all this time. Why does this matter so much when you can listen to the albums, go see them on tour, and otherwise still enjoy the music of Styx as you always have? Why do there have to be "sides" and fighting and name-calling? How many people here have ever even MET a member of this band and have any idea what they're talking about?

Just food for thought. Not that I think it's going to change anything one iota.

Sterling

[froy]

again, NONE OF THIS CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT WAS WRONG FOR TOMMY AND JY TO TRY TO CONTINUE "STYX" WITHOUT DENNIS.

fact?

True and you can say the same for journey to go on with out Perry.

Not even close
They waited 2 years for Perry
Shaw waited 5 min

It's close enough. Dennis himself said they waited a year and a half for him to get better.

Not true he said in BTM 6 months was what he needed
They did not even wait that long.

[StyxCollector]

Just to add my to cents' worth, OF COURSE Dennis made more money from publishing, because he wrote more hits. Simple enough. It's that way in every band. As far as the past, in the "classic" era of Styx they had an agreement in which each guy earned an equal share of album sales, as all bands do pretty much. Dennis did not make more from album sales. That's false. Now later on, after EOTC, he made more because he was sole producer and a producer earns points, but that does not affect the classic era. In the prime years the band also collectively owned a publishing company and when it became clear that Dennis was emerging as the dominant commercial writer, they came up with an agreement where the writer of a song - whomever it was - would own 100 percent of the writer's half of the song, while the other half was split five ways equally. None of the writers had to agree to do that, they did it to try to make things a bit more equal for the non-writing members. For JY what he gave up on his songs and what he earned off Tommy's and Dennis', he probably came out ahead. Tommy probably came out about equal or a little bit ahead. Dennis gave up way more then he earned back because his songs had the most radio success. Again, only later on, from EOTC on did that change, and from then on each participating songwriter owned his own songs. By the way, does that mean JY screwed the band? Or how about Glen Burtnik, did he screw John and Chuck? Because I don't think they earned publishing money from his tunes either. If we're going to apply that standard, let's apply it to everyone, not selectively to demonize one person only.

And let's not forget that Tommy also gave his rights up to Styx in the late 80s/early 90s when he thought he was done, but was let back into the partnership. Those papers aren't handy, either.

As far as Dennis not earning money from touring, well of course he earned his slice from touring. Why in the world would he not? He was one of the principal owners of the name and one of the officers of the holding company, why would he not earn money from the exploitation of that trademark? That makes no sense at all. I think there might be a misunderstanding of some of the terms of the EOTC agreement. In that agreement as I recall (and I'm not looking at it right now) Dennis' money from the tour was tied to completing a certain number of dates. It's a tradeoff that was probably made to offset his earning the producer's percentage. It didn't affect anything thereafter. Does anyone really believe, if he didn't earn money from touring, there would have ever been any tours that involved him? Only an idiot would go out and work like that and not get paid his portion. And Dennis is no idiot.

That's my recollection of the EotC touring agreement as well.

And yes, Dennis had contracts in place to do Hunchback and investors had already kicked money in before Styx got back together. He did in fact have a financial and legal obligation to do it, and in fact had put it off to do some Styx things that came up in the meantime.

That was when he did it in Nashville with the full orchestra, so yeah, the old cobwebs start to be dusted off. You can't spin up a production like that without a lot of pre-work. And if I remember correctly, TS went and praised it.

[Babyblue]

That's a half truth, actually. From what I understood Dennis receives most of the album royalties so the rest of the band MUST tour to make money. So, yeah, what you say above IS a huge part of the problem...When Dennis cuts tours short to pay attention to Hunchback, causing the rest of the band to lose money, of course that is going to be a huge strike against him. When Dennis says he can't tour because of light sensitivity, of course that is going to be a huge problem. Dennis can sit on his ass and dream about musicals and still get paid for past albums...while others NEED to tour to earn a paycheck. Either he's a team player and has Styx as his priority, or he is distracted by other things and can't give enough time to Styx. As I see it, the latter is what got him replaced, and his lawsuit is what got him permanently fired. Get over it.

You can't be that naive. This is the way it works - band member writes hits, he gets paid. It's not Dennis' fault he wrote most of the popular tunes. So while Dennis can make money off of things like publishing, the other guys clearly do not make as much as he does. That doesn't mean he needs to be on the road to make it more even for everyone else. No band has ever worked that way. Dennis has never loved to be on the road a ton, even going back to the 70s. Personally, I think going out back to back years in 1996 and 1997 didn't help them, and the audience attendance showed (I saw them enough on both tours). Had they gone away after 1996, taken a break, recorded the album at their pace, and come back with BNW but a coherent effort, you may still have Styx. It's not how it played out. The old stuff crept back in.

Now, to play the other side of the coin, had the others invested and saved (JY did, but clearly he didn't make the bank DDY did), you wouldn't have the incessant touring Styx has done since 1999. It's no secret that Tommy in the past was not as good with his money, but he's clearly doing better now, although he should be getting decent royalties from Styx, DY, and the various other things.

Bands are about give and take. All bands have drama. It doesn't make any one side more right or wrong, but success is the root of all evils. Dennis had more than anyone in Styx, and it was inevitable it would blew up. It did 3x (1979, 1984, 1999), and probably other times we didn't know about.

Just to add my to cents' worth, OF COURSE Dennis made more money from publishing, because he wrote more hits. Simple enough. It's that way in every band. As far as the past, in the "classic" era of Styx they had an agreement in which each guy earned an equal share of album sales, as all bands do pretty much. Dennis did not make more from album sales. That's false. Now later on, after EOTC, he made more because he was sole producer and a producer earns points, but that does not affect the classic era. In the prime years the band also collectively owned a publishing company and when it became clear that Dennis was emerging as the dominant commercial writer, they came up with an agreement where the writer of a song - whomever it was - would own 100 percent of the writer's half of the song, while the other half was split five ways equally. None of the writers had to agree to do that, they did it to try to make things a bit more equal for the non-writing members. For JY what he gave up on his songs and what he earned off Tommy's and Dennis', he probably came out ahead. Tommy probably came out about equal or a little bit ahead. Dennis gave up way more then he earned back because his songs had the most radio success. Again, only later on, from EOTC on did that change, and from then on each participating songwriter owned his own songs. By the way, does that mean JY screwed the band? Or how about Glen Burtnik, did he screw John and Chuck? Because I don't think they earned publishing money from his tunes either. If we're going to apply that standard, let's apply it to everyone, not selectively to demonize one person only.

As far as Dennis not earning money from touring, well of course he earned his slice from touring. Why in the world would he not? He was one of the principal owners of the name and one of the officers of the holding company, why would he not earn money from the exploitation of that trademark? That makes no sense at all. I think there might be a misunderstanding of some of the terms of the EOTC agreement. In that agreement as I recall (and I'm not looking at it right now) Dennis' money from the tour was tied to completing a certain number of dates. It's a tradeoff that was probably made to offset his earning the producer's percentage. It didn't affect anything thereafter. Does anyone really believe, if he didn't earn money from touring, there would have ever been any tours that involved him? Only an idiot would go out and work like that and not get paid his portion. And Dennis is no idiot.

And yes, Dennis had contracts in place to do Hunchback and investors had already kicked money in before Styx got back together. He did in fact have a financial and legal obligation to do it, and in fact had put it off to do some Styx things that came up in the meantime.

Lastly, I continue to be puzzled by why people have such a weird, deep-seated need to demonize people they don't know over things that don't even really concern them. It's just plain unhealthy, not to mention absurd. Everyone in Styx is just a human being, which means they are our fellow idiots with the same strengths and weaknesses and self-interest as everyone else has. They struggle to do the best they can in the circumstances and frequently fall short, as we all do. They are no better or worse, individually or colletively, than anyone else living on Earth. The need to see one side as "right" and "good", and the other side as "bad" and "wrong", is a fan's projection, either way. It's really, really weird to me that anyone does not see that after all this time. Why does this matter so much when you can listen to the albums, go see them on tour, and otherwise still enjoy the music of Styx as you always have? Why do there have to be "sides" and fighting and name-calling? How many people here have ever even MET a member of this band and have any idea what they're talking about?

Just food for thought. Not that I think it's going to change anything one iota.

Sterling

Thank You!!!