Regeneration: "The Grand Illusion"

[Keiferb]

Can't say I'm digging the HEAVY processing on Gowan's vocals especially at the start of the track at all. Funky doubling effect is super distracting, not to mention unnecessary... It just sounds like a way over-processed version of the live version.

I won't get into the Gowan vocal versus Dennis vocal other than saying that Gowan just sounds better on stuff that Dennis did not sing originally. "Criminal Mind", "Salty Dog", "Fields of the Brave", "I Don't Need No Doctor"- are all killer tracks from Lawrence. They just are. But for fans to expect him to sound like Dennis on Dennis' own songs is just silly. Then again, if he did sound like him, he'd be blasted as being an imitator (see the anti Arnel posts on the Journey board- neither guy can win).
Just because Gowan doesn't sound like DeYoung is no reason for fans to toss unnecessary crap at him. The alternative is to have Shaw handle Dennis' tunes ala the version of Borrowed Time that's out there now, which works fine, but won't do anything to erase the original. I wish the band would stand behind Larry a bit more and let him be his own man with his own songs. They're great songs and he does them well.
But because Styx has really has become this trip down memory lane, that won't happen.

Take it for what it is...

An over-priced version of something that really should've been a concert give away. It's almost the same idea as the live Beatles at the BBC recordings, except for the over processing.

I'm sure in the next interview, someone in the band will blast the "so called fans" for giving their honest opinion. I feel that the band will continue to get pummeled by "so called fans" as long as they try and recreate magical tracks. Hey Styx, you've already created the magic once with the originals. Move on and create new pieces of recorded magic. I know that some fans here who can't get past 1983 have missed the boat on the new stuff, but things like "Everything All the Time", "Do Things My Way", "More Love for the Money", etc. were really great moves ahead for the band and it's too bad the band doesn't believe in itself and it's "so called fans" enough to quit looking to the past. I guess that since the band is just touring on it's legacy instead of trying to clear a new path, this is the just the way it's going to go and longtime fans will continue to bitch about trying to erase Dennis' memory, etc.

Cheap Trick is working on a new album (they seem to be doing one every year and a half or so). Heart has some great songs on their new record coming out this week.
Loverboy's (?!?!?) last album stood right up with their best albums. This band called Styx produced a great record of new music called Cyclorama 7 years ago that kicked ass. If they can do it, why can't Styx?

I agree Gowan sounds "OK" (at best) on "Criminal Mind" & "Fields of the Brave" - both good songs, and probably because they are his songs. However, I think he sounds terrible on both "Salty Dog", and "I Don't Need No Doctor" (doesn't help I think that song sucks at it's core). Maybe it's just he can't handle other's music.

I count myself among those sorely disappointed that DDY's no longer in the band. Water under the bridge. However, I don't dislike Gowan because he doesn't sound like DDY. It's crazy to think anyone can or should. I dislike him because usually, he just plain sounds bad. I grant, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when I see posts that say he sounds "great", well, that person simply has no credibility with me. Really, I've never heard anyone take a spoonful of vinegar, and proclaim "That was good". That's what listening to Gowan sing most anything, especially other's songs, is like to me - taking vinegar (which I have done for acid reflux). Oddly enough, vinegar is a natural remedy for acid reflux. Listening to Gowan butcher Styx songs causes it.

[brywool]

Can't say I'm digging the HEAVY processing on Gowan's vocals especially at the start of the track at all. Funky doubling effect is super distracting, not to mention unnecessary... It just sounds like a way over-processed version of the live version.

IMO the reason they are doubling is to thicken up his voice because it isn't Dennis and it needs it. Not a bad thing - classic recording technique.

I won't get into the Gowan vocal versus Dennis vocal other than saying that Gowan just sounds better on stuff that Dennis did not sing originally. "Criminal Mind", "Salty Dog", "Fields of the Brave", "I Don't Need No Doctor"- are all killer tracks from Lawrence. They just are. But for fans to expect him to sound like Dennis on Dennis' own songs is just silly. Then again, if he did sound like him, he'd be blasted as being an imitator (see the anti Arnel posts on the Journey board- neither guy can win).

Just because Gowan doesn't sound like DeYoung is no reason for fans to toss unnecessary crap at him. The alternative is to have Shaw handle Dennis' tunes ala the version of Borrowed Time that's out there now, which works fine, but won't do anything to erase the original. I wish the band would stand behind Larry a bit more and let him be his own man with his own songs. They're great songs and he does them well.
But because Styx has really has become this trip down memory lane, that won't happen.

I've been saying something similar for a long time. I like Gowan when he's not having to sing Dennis' songs. Some of his contributions to the band on Cyclorama and such are stronger in cases than what TS or JY brought to the table. And allowing TS to do songs like "The Best of Times" is not really such a bad idea. Tommy arguably has the best voice in the band.

I wouldn't say 'arguably'. Shaw DOES have the best voice in the band.
I also thought that Gowan and Burtnik's contributions to Cyclo were above Shaws- this from a big TS fan.
Cyclo was a well rounded release that should've done much better than it did.

[Ehwmatt]

Can't say I'm digging the HEAVY processing on Gowan's vocals especially at the start of the track at all. Funky doubling effect is super distracting, not to mention unnecessary... It just sounds like a way over-processed version of the live version.

IMO the reason they are doubling is to thicken up his voice because it isn't Dennis and it needs it. Not a bad thing - classic recording technique.

I won't get into the Gowan vocal versus Dennis vocal other than saying that Gowan just sounds better on stuff that Dennis did not sing originally. "Criminal Mind", "Salty Dog", "Fields of the Brave", "I Don't Need No Doctor"- are all killer tracks from Lawrence. They just are. But for fans to expect him to sound like Dennis on Dennis' own songs is just silly. Then again, if he did sound like him, he'd be blasted as being an imitator (see the anti Arnel posts on the Journey board- neither guy can win).

Just because Gowan doesn't sound like DeYoung is no reason for fans to toss unnecessary crap at him. The alternative is to have Shaw handle Dennis' tunes ala the version of Borrowed Time that's out there now, which works fine, but won't do anything to erase the original. I wish the band would stand behind Larry a bit more and let him be his own man with his own songs. They're great songs and he does them well.
But because Styx has really has become this trip down memory lane, that won't happen.

I've been saying something similar for a long time. I like Gowan when he's not having to sing Dennis' songs. Some of his contributions to the band on Cyclorama and such are stronger in cases than what TS or JY brought to the table. And allowing TS to do songs like "The Best of Times" is not really such a bad idea. Tommy arguably has the best voice in the band.

I wouldn't say 'arguably'. Shaw DOES have the best voice in the band.
I also thought that Gowan and Burtnik's contributions to Cyclo were above Shaws- this from a big TS fan.
Cyclo was a well rounded release that should've done much better than it did.

I agree, Cyclo is like Journey's Arrival and from that same early 2000s period. It has really stood the test of time for me and stands today as a strong album.

[StyxCollector]

Cyclo was a well rounded release that should've done much better than it did.

In 1985, maybe. Not in 2003 when it was released.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Not as good as I had hoped but I think the "Dog Shit" review is a bit harsh. This is not STYX of the 1970's so expecting to sound like that is a bit of a stretch. The recording does sound a bit thin but as stated above that could be a net compression thing. Gowan sounds much better here than he does live but if you don't like Gowan then your not going to like this version so why even bother to listen. I really like the guitar solos here they are punchy and in your face, The harmonies work but if I were mixing Tommy's part would be a little more forward. My biggest disappointment is that Todd seems to be holding back to match John's original tracks. Todd is one of the truly shining stars in this line-up and for him to hold back seems a bit of a waste of great talent. All that being said I can see myself enjoying this CD and will pick it up at the show in November.

Hey mr.v long time no see, you been lurking?



Robin

[pinkfloyd1973]

Oddly enough, vinegar is a natural remedy for acid reflux

and also itchy sunburns (if you can stand the smell)

[Boomchild]

ok, maybe not dog shit, but they should be ashamed to release it with that level of production quality.
It's lazy, pump everything through a laptop while on the road, then a hopeless mixing job because you have nothing to work with.

Just being a fan shouldn't let them off the hook for this garbage. If they were a band like the Ramones, who just blasted out three chords and release the album ( which was awesome in it's own right), then it would be no big deal. But they have a history of outstanding production and attention to detail that is lacking in this release. And again, it has nothing to do with Gowan's voice.

There's a reason for the lack of outstanding production and attention to detail on this recording. It's just that they can't admit to why that is. But some of us know exactly why.

[Boomchild]

Sounds fine to me probably even better then the original

it doesn't matter how good it is these internet fans will never admit it

Only cause they can't get out of the past and can't get the dennis is god thought out of their minds. A shame really

Some of Dennis' versions of the song (both with the band and solo) I don't care for either, to me it has nothing to do with that. Mebbe it is true what Allan said about it being streamed and compressed and not on the album why it sounds poor in quality




Robin

It just lacks any emotion in the performance. Like they are going through the motions. The harmonies on this recording compared to the original are so weak. I chuckle at the folks who think this is great or better then the original. Some people must be easy to please or they are so desperate to get anything new recorded from Styx that they start hearing quality that isn't there. When they announced the release they stated "You know the songs but not like this", so I ask what am I supposed to hear?

Fine music at its best.

I see. I let you know when I hear it. So far I haven't heard anything close. The sad fact is that there was no reason to revisit these songs and update them. That's if you call this updated. What was wrong with originals? If there was something wrong then maybe they should have not released them in the first place. When a band revisits their most well known material they need to make sure that it is something that sets it apart from the originals. That's not the case here.

[Babyblue]

Sounds fine to me probably even better then the original

it doesn't matter how good it is these internet fans will never admit it

Only cause they can't get out of the past and can't get the dennis is god thought out of their minds. A shame really

Some of Dennis' versions of the song (both with the band and solo) I don't care for either, to me it has nothing to do with that. Mebbe it is true what Allan said about it being streamed and compressed and not on the album why it sounds poor in quality




Robin

It just lacks any emotion in the performance. Like they are going through the motions. The harmonies on this recording compared to the original are so weak. I chuckle at the folks who think this is great or better then the original. Some people must be easy to please or they are so desperate to get anything new recorded from Styx that they start hearing quality that isn't there. When they announced the release they stated "You know the songs but not like this", so I ask what am I supposed to hear?

Fine music at its best.

I see. I let you know when I hear it. So far I haven't heard anything close. The sad fact is that there was no reason to revisit these songs and update them. That's if you call this updated. What was wrong with originals? If there was something wrong then maybe they should have not released them in the first place. When a band revisits their most well known material they need to make sure that it is something that sets it apart from the originals. That's not the case here.

We shall see.

[mr.v]

Not as good as I had hoped but I think the "Dog Shit" review is a bit harsh. This is not STYX of the 1970's so expecting to sound like that is a bit of a stretch. The recording does sound a bit thin but as stated above that could be a net compression thing. Gowan sounds much better here than he does live but if you don't like Gowan then your not going to like this version so why even bother to listen. I really like the guitar solos here they are punchy and in your face, The harmonies work but if I were mixing Tommy's part would be a little more forward. My biggest disappointment is that Todd seems to be holding back to match John's original tracks. Todd is one of the truly shining stars in this line-up and for him to hold back seems a bit of a waste of great talent. All that being said I can see myself enjoying this CD and will pick it up at the show in November.

Hey mr.v long time no see, you been lurking?



Lurking is a good word for it, I don't get into the bickering that goes on here so much so I kind of just hang out to see if anything new comes along.
Thanks for the shout out!

[Toph]

Sounds fine to me probably even better then the original

it doesn't matter how good it is these internet fans will never admit it

Only cause they can't get out of the past and can't get the dennis is god thought out of their minds. A shame really

Some of Dennis' versions of the song (both with the band and solo) I don't care for either, to me it has nothing to do with that. Mebbe it is true what Allan said about it being streamed and compressed and not on the album why it sounds poor in quality




Robin

It just lacks any emotion in the performance. Like they are going through the motions. The harmonies on this recording compared to the original are so weak. I chuckle at the folks who think this is great or better then the original. Some people must be easy to please or they are so desperate to get anything new recorded from Styx that they start hearing quality that isn't there. When they announced the release they stated "You know the songs but not like this", so I ask what am I supposed to hear?

Fine music at its best.

I see. I let you know when I hear it. So far I haven't heard anything close. The sad fact is that there was no reason to revisit these songs and update them. That's if you call this updated. What was wrong with originals? If there was something wrong then maybe they should have not released them in the first place. When a band revisits their most well known material they need to make sure that it is something that sets it apart from the originals. That's not the case here.

You have to remember, these guys are after one thing and one thing only...the almighty dollar. They think they can pawn these off to movie soundtracks and tv commercials and make lots of $$$ without having to share it. Of course, what they don't realize is that any brand or movie worth its salt will want the original recording, not a cheap knockoff...

[Ash]

You have to remember, these guys are after one thing and one thing only...the almighty dollar. They think they can pawn these off to movie soundtracks and tv commercials and make lots of $$$ without having to share it. Of course, what they don't realize is that any brand or movie worth its salt will want the original recording, not a cheap knockoff...

This won't save or make them any more money.

If a movie house wants to use "Come Sail Away" for the closing credits of a movie, Dennis will get most of that money regardless if they use this new abomination or the classic version. He makes the same amount as the song writer no matter if it's the nuStyx, Slipknot or Barry Manillow versions of the song.

The company who will lose out on them using the re-recorded version is A&M records. A&M owns the original master recording and as such would be owed the "Mechanical Royalty" for the use of the original recording. If they would want to use nuStyx's recording of it, then they would have to pay the band (or whoever financed and owns the master of the new recording).

So in that sense, it *could* be a money grab if they offer a movie studio a better rate on the mechanical royalty than A&M, but that isn't likely to happen as most movie makers have the money to license the original work. In the case of Universal Pictures..... well they own A&M's catalog I believe - so there ya go.

[styxfanNH]

What it does is provide them with a CD that is signed by the band for sale at the show and is not available anywhere else. Fans that buy the signed CDs may already have the rest of the catalog that they sell and this provides them with something new.

[froy]

What it does is provide them with a CD that is signed by the band for sale at the show and is not available anywhere else. Fans that buy the signed CDs may already have the rest of the catalog that they sell and this provides them with something new.

When my dog takes a dump in the back yard that is something new also. They can sell that right along with the cd.
2 piles of shit.

[Boomchild]

What it does is provide them with a CD that is signed by the band for sale at the show and is not available anywhere else. Fans that buy the signed CDs may already have the rest of the catalog that they sell and this provides them with something new.

That's an interesting point of view. REHASH=NEW. How about doing the fans a favor and not charging for the autographs. One thing you can say about Dennis is that he will autograph stuff for free. He even lets you mail it to him and returns it so you don't have to be at the right place at the right time to get it. Styx started this "do anything to make a buck" with that silly "Styx Coffee". WTF does coffee have to do with music and\or Styx itself? Pathetic.

[Boomchild]

You have to remember, these guys are after one thing and one thing only...the almighty dollar. They think they can pawn these off to movie soundtracks and tv commercials and make lots of $$$ without having to share it. Of course, what they don't realize is that any brand or movie worth its salt will want the original recording, not a cheap knockoff...

This won't save or make them any more money.

If a movie house wants to use "Come Sail Away" for the closing credits of a movie, Dennis will get most of that money regardless if they use this new abomination or the classic version. He makes the same amount as the song writer no matter if it's the nuStyx, Slipknot or Barry Manillow versions of the song.

The company who will lose out on them using the re-recorded version is A&M records. A&M owns the original master recording and as such would be owed the "Mechanical Royalty" for the use of the original recording. If they would want to use nuStyx's recording of it, then they would have to pay the band (or whoever financed and owns the master of the new recording).

So in that sense, it *could* be a money grab if they offer a movie studio a better rate on the mechanical royalty than A&M, but that isn't likely to happen as most movie makers have the money to license the original work. In the case of Universal Pictures..... well they own A&M's catalog I believe - so there ya go.

The days of anyone wanting the use of Styx material for soundtracks, commercials etc. to any substantial degree is over.

[Boomchild]

What it does is provide them with a CD that is signed by the band for sale at the show and is not available anywhere else.

That is until the fan gives it a listen and finds it lacks anything of value and then puts it up for auction on eBay for the next sucker to discover the same thing.

[Dstructo]

They've "pieced" Lawrence's vocals together one line at a time - sounds unnatural. The hard-panned right and left vocal effect is bad. The production is TERRIBLE. The guitars sound direct, weak, and tinny. Vocal EQ is bad. Vocal mix is bad. Mastering is bad.

I don't care for what Ricky does to the Styx classics in a live setting (overplays the bass parts A LOT), and as suspected, he did the same on this recording. Yes, he is a much better bass player than Chuck, and even Glen, but holy crap can't you be respectful of the original? I like how Todd toned it down for the re-recording - Ricky could take note.

Hate to be negative nancy, but wow this is bad......

-Paul

[pinkfloyd1973]

They've "pieced" Lawrence's vocals together one line at a time - sounds unnatural. The hard-panned right and left vocal effect is bad. The production is TERRIBLE. The guitars sound direct, weak, and tinny. Vocal EQ is bad. Vocal mix is bad. Mastering is bad.

I don't care for what Ricky does to the Styx classics in a live setting (overplays the bass parts A LOT), and as suspected, he did the same on this recording. Yes, he is a much better bass player than Chuck, and even Glen, but holy crap can't you be respectful of the original? I like how Todd toned it down for the re-recording - Ricky could take note.

Hate to be negative nancy, but wow this is bad......

-Paul

Well hello Mr. Holt, long time no see from the Styxboard BB days


Robin 8)

[froy]

They've "pieced" Lawrence's vocals together one line at a time - sounds unnatural. The hard-panned right and left vocal effect is bad. The production is TERRIBLE. The guitars sound direct, weak, and tinny. Vocal EQ is bad. Vocal mix is bad. Mastering is bad.

I don't care for what Ricky does to the Styx classics in a live setting (overplays the bass parts A LOT), and as suspected, he did the same on this recording. Yes, he is a much better bass player than Chuck, and even Glen, but holy crap can't you be respectful of the original? I like how Todd toned it down for the re-recording - Ricky could take note.

Hate to be negative nancy, but wow this is bad......

-Paul

Great review .

[Dstructo]

Well hello Mr. Holt, long time no see from the Styxboard BB days 8)

Hiya Robin!

I've been here for years.....lurking......watching......waiting......

-Paul

[brywool]

The question on everyone's mind though is...

How does it compare to a parking lot full of whale vomit?

[Born4adventure]

They've "pieced" Lawrence's vocals together one line at a time - sounds unnatural. The hard-panned right and left vocal effect is bad. The production is TERRIBLE. The guitars sound direct, weak, and tinny. Vocal EQ is bad. Vocal mix is bad. Mastering is bad.

I don't care for what Ricky does to the Styx classics in a live setting (overplays the bass parts A LOT), and as suspected, he did the same on this recording. Yes, he is a much better bass player than Chuck, and even Glen, but holy crap can't you be respectful of the original? I like how Todd toned it down for the re-recording - Ricky could take note.

Hate to be negative nancy, but wow this is bad......

-Paul

don't judge a record from 30 seconds of pirated shit youtube video

[froy]

The question on everyone's mind though is...

How does it compare to a parking lot full of whale vomit?

It's right up there BRYMAN

[froy]

They've "pieced" Lawrence's vocals together one line at a time - sounds unnatural. The hard-panned right and left vocal effect is bad. The production is TERRIBLE. The guitars sound direct, weak, and tinny. Vocal EQ is bad. Vocal mix is bad. Mastering is bad.

I don't care for what Ricky does to the Styx classics in a live setting (overplays the bass parts A LOT), and as suspected, he did the same on this recording. Yes, he is a much better bass player than Chuck, and even Glen, but holy crap can't you be respectful of the original? I like how Todd toned it down for the re-recording - Ricky could take note.

Hate to be negative nancy, but wow this is bad......

-Paul

don't judge a record from 30 seconds of pirated shit youtube video

30 seconds it's the entire song. Nice try again with blaming YT

[froy]

Well hello Mr. Holt, long time no see from the Styxboard BB days 8)

Hiya Robin!

I've been here for years.....lurking......watching......waiting......

-Paul

You hit at the right time

[Babyblue]

They've "pieced" Lawrence's vocals together one line at a time - sounds unnatural. The hard-panned right and left vocal effect is bad. The production is TERRIBLE. The guitars sound direct, weak, and tinny. Vocal EQ is bad. Vocal mix is bad. Mastering is bad.

I don't care for what Ricky does to the Styx classics in a live setting (overplays the bass parts A LOT), and as suspected, he did the same on this recording. Yes, he is a much better bass player than Chuck, and even Glen, but holy crap can't you be respectful of the original? I like how Todd toned it down for the re-recording - Ricky could take note.

Hate to be negative nancy, but wow this is bad......

-Paul

don't judge a record from 30 seconds of pirated shit youtube video

30 seconds it's the entire song. Nice try again with blaming YT

Go away pigeon

[Boomchild]

The question on everyone's mind though is...

How does it compare to a parking lot full of whale vomit?

Maybe they are hoping to get a Guitar Hero release out of this. Thats about all this is worth.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I do enjoy Todd's drumming, but what bothers me the most of re-recording these old songs is not that it only removes Dennis' vocals/harmonies & keyboard playing, it's like they're erasing John's drum playing and history. It's really sad.
(I'm going to keep reposting this same statement in all the threads)

[Everett]

Nice job of copy & paste laurie