Could DeYoung and Shaw do something like this?

[masque]

wow lots of thoughts running thru this thread and i think everyone is making pretty valid points.....for my part here are my thoughts;

1) i dont think any of us should be surprised by the lack of friendship within the band.....these guys weren't best buds in school growing up together and learning how to play and forming a band......JY joined as the band was becoming established......tommy joined after the band was signed and was certainly a business at that point. tommy has admitted in interviews that for the first few years they were hanging out together, writing together and being a "band" but after that it was for sure a business. so in lots of ways it was a place to work and make great money while getting your ego fed.

2) and just like my co-workers, I like some of them a lot and a few of them I dont like very much at all.....but it's how I make my living so I try to make the best of it.......i can't imagine how strained some of my working relationships would be if I had to hang out with them for months at a time on the road and we were also infusing drug use into the equation......it would certainly be a volatile mix.

3) luckily for me, i am the boss where I work, so while i try to let my subordinates make their decisions and run their departments, in the end i have the final say......so I rarely suffer from creative differences at work...because in the end, if something really matters to me I can assure that it ends up the way i envisioned it.

4) in styx, what did you have? was it a democracy? or was was ddy in charge? what did ddy say about that......that styx was a democracy and he was the president? or something like that? point is that based on what little I know about these guys personalities i size them up like this;

jy- egomaniac with a high iq that feels like he was an equal part of the machine and highly resents the loss of power that happened to him over the years due to ddy and ts success within the band. deep down probably a bit insecure because he knows dennis and tommy paid the bills.

ts- egomaniac with a passive aggressive streak.......doesnt really want to fool with the stress of running the ship but wants to make damn sure you run the ship exactly how he thinks it should go.....pouts if doesn't get his way.

ddy- egomaniac that has natural leadership skills.....comes across to those who dont know him as well as this super funny easy going guy....but to those who know him deeper he comes across as a "my way or the highway" kind of guy and probably used his success as a reminder to the other guys of why his plans and ideas were best for the band.

5) the bottom line is that like I have said before I agree very much with toph in that when you see things like the borders show that it certainly seems there is genuine affection for each other......but i think part of that stems from the fact that these guys look back at their glory days with fondness and often think "hey i went to battle with that guy and for many years and we were winning the war" kind of thing.......so they see each other with fondness.....and in certain cases can tolerate and even welcome each other's company.

much like it is at times when people see old girlfriends or boyfriends......sometimes people even try to rekindle old romances and for a while it goes great but then after time the things that drove you part are still there again and drive you apart again. people usually are incapable of re-wiring themselves......they are who they are and shit that bothers you is just stuff that you can't always control.

and that ties back to the original point......they weren't life long friends.....being in the band helped create the friendships. so when the stresses and pressures of their work and personalities began to weigh on each other there was enough of a foundation to hold it together long term.

just look at alex lifeson and geddy lee from rush.......they were literally best friends from middle school on......they truly love each other and although they have fought and disagreed on musical diffraction at times they have always known that they are and will be playing music together.......and that has as much to do with their bond of friendship as it does with their satisfaction over the music they are creating. and that's why to this day after 40 damn years that neil peart still jokes that he's the new guy! styx never had that.

[Monker]

if I were Tommy, I would simply ask "Why?" There is no real reason or motivation for him to work with DDY ever again.

Would you say the same thing about Perry with Schon/Cain?

Perry? The guy can barely sing at all. Yes, I would say the same thing...and I would add that they would be complete idiots to do some type of project with him...especially if it involved touring. He has a history of bailing out and leaving whoever he is working with to pick up the pieces....I would absolutely NOT trust him - at all.

[Boomchild]

wow lots of thoughts running thru this thread and i think everyone is making pretty valid points.....for my part here are my thoughts;

1) i dont think any of us should be surprised by the lack of friendship within the band.....these guys weren't best buds in school growing up together and learning how to play and forming a band......JY joined as the band was becoming established......tommy joined after the band was signed and was certainly a business at that point. tommy has admitted in interviews that for the first few years they were hanging out together, writing together and being a "band" but after that it was for sure a business. so in lots of ways it was a place to work and make great money while getting your ego fed.

4) in styx, what did you have? was it a democracy? or was was ddy in charge? what did ddy say about that......that styx was a democracy and he was the president? or something like that? point is that based on what little I know about these guys personalities i size them up like this;

jy- egomaniac with a high iq that feels like he was an equal part of the machine and highly resents the loss of power that happened to him over the years due to ddy and ts success within the band. deep down probably a bit insecure because he knows dennis and tommy paid the bills.

ts- egomaniac with a passive aggressive streak.......doesnt really want to fool with the stress of running the ship but wants to make damn sure you run the ship exactly how he thinks it should go.....pouts if doesn't get his way.

ddy- egomaniac that has natural leadership skills.....comes across to those who dont know him as well as this super funny easy going guy....but to those who know him deeper he comes across as a "my way or the highway" kind of guy and probably used his success as a reminder to the other guys of why his plans and ideas were best for the band.

I would say (when speaking about DDY, CP and JP) that at the start and through the early days it was like buddies growing up together, learning to play and putting together a band. Later on, when it became more of a business those relationships changed. I think you pointed out here that all of them had egos and that effected how things played out. I feel too often things have been portrayed as the only person with an ego was DDY. I do think your right that JY harbors some kind of resentment due to becoming more like the third wheel and not getting an equal amount of attention and exposure from being in Styx. When it comes to TS, I would add that I think he is one to avoid confrontation and would complain to others instead of going directly to the person he had an issue(s) with. As for DDY, I feel the "it's my way or the highway" thing is over stated. He seemed to be more receptive to not limiting what they could do in Styx while some of the others wanted to stick with a formula. I think you have to consider that it is clear that at some point they saw the success in what DDY suggested they do and let him "hold the reigns". It could be that some have regrets to that and that they were upset that whatever vision they had for Styx did not get fulfilled.

[Toph]

wow lots of thoughts running thru this thread and i think everyone is making pretty valid points.....for my part here are my thoughts;

1) i dont think any of us should be surprised by the lack of friendship within the band.....these guys weren't best buds in school growing up together and learning how to play and forming a band......JY joined as the band was becoming established......tommy joined after the band was signed and was certainly a business at that point. tommy has admitted in interviews that for the first few years they were hanging out together, writing together and being a "band" but after that it was for sure a business. so in lots of ways it was a place to work and make great money while getting your ego fed.

4) in styx, what did you have? was it a democracy? or was was ddy in charge? what did ddy say about that......that styx was a democracy and he was the president? or something like that? point is that based on what little I know about these guys personalities i size them up like this;

jy- egomaniac with a high iq that feels like he was an equal part of the machine and highly resents the loss of power that happened to him over the years due to ddy and ts success within the band. deep down probably a bit insecure because he knows dennis and tommy paid the bills.

ts- egomaniac with a passive aggressive streak.......doesnt really want to fool with the stress of running the ship but wants to make damn sure you run the ship exactly how he thinks it should go.....pouts if doesn't get his way.

ddy- egomaniac that has natural leadership skills.....comes across to those who dont know him as well as this super funny easy going guy....but to those who know him deeper he comes across as a "my way or the highway" kind of guy and probably used his success as a reminder to the other guys of why his plans and ideas were best for the band.

I would say (when speaking about DDY, CP and JP) that at the start and through the early days it was like buddies growing up together, learning to play and putting together a band. Later on, when it became more of a business those relationships changed. I think you pointed out here that all of them had egos and that effected how things played out. I feel too often things have been portrayed as the only person with an ego was DDY. I do think your right that JY harbors some kind of resentment due to becoming more like the third wheel and not getting an equal amount of attention and exposure from being in Styx. When it comes to TS, I would add that I think he is one to avoid confrontation and would complain to others instead of going directly to the person he had an issue(s) with. As for DDY, I feel the "it's my way or the highway" thing is over stated. He seemed to be more receptive to not limiting what they could do in Styx while some of the others wanted to stick with a formula. I think you have to consider that it is clear that at some point they saw the success in what DDY suggested they do and let him "hold the reigns". It could be that some have regrets to that and that they were upset that whatever vision they had for Styx did not get fulfilled.

I'll put this out there - I'm not sure if Styx (or Tradewinds at the time) was the right band for JY. Remember, DDY, CP, JP played Beatles cover tunes and JY was playing Hendrix type stuff. So from the get go, the musical visions did not match. This would serve as a source of tension for the next 20+ years. Yes, JY probably pulled Styx a bit more in the hard rock direction, but are his contributions, outside of Miss America and to a lesser extent Snowblind (also co written by DeYoung and Shaw) really what made that band? If there was someone who was more similar in artistic taste, what would have become of Styx? Assume the same band, but with a different guitarist. So, Shaw still comes on board in 1976. What happens to Styx?

[yogi]

My take ( baseball analogy) on it is that DDY was a very good 3 or 4 hole hitter, Tommy was a very good leadoff or #2 type of hitter, JY was a decent bottom 3rd of the order type of player and would get pinch hit for every now and then by the bench guys who were John & Chuck.

[Boomchild]

I'll put this out there - I'm not sure if Styx (or Tradewinds at the time) was the right band for JY. Remember, DDY, CP, JP played Beatles cover tunes and JY was playing Hendrix type stuff. So from the get go, the musical visions did not match. This would serve as a source of tension for the next 20+ years. Yes, JY probably pulled Styx a bit more in the hard rock direction, but are his contributions, outside of Miss America and to a lesser extent Snowblind (also co written by DeYoung and Shaw) really what made that band? If there was someone who was more similar in artistic taste, what would have become of Styx? Assume the same band, but with a different guitarist. So, Shaw still comes on board in 1976. What happens to Styx?

I think that JY was thinking the same way. But, there was the issue that the band he was in just prior to joining Styx (Tradewinds) was breaking up and he was looking to find a band in order to make money. As far as if he didn't join and someone else did, I don't think we would have heard of the band if things did not play out as they did.

[Monker]

I'll put this out there - I'm not sure if Styx (or Tradewinds at the time) was the right band for JY. Remember, DDY, CP, JP played Beatles cover tunes and JY was playing Hendrix type stuff. So from the get go, the musical visions did not match. This would serve as a source of tension for the next 20+ years. Yes, JY probably pulled Styx a bit more in the hard rock direction, but are his contributions, outside of Miss America and to a lesser extent Snowblind (also co written by DeYoung and Shaw) really what made that band? If there was someone who was more similar in artistic taste, what would have become of Styx? Assume the same band, but with a different guitarist. So, Shaw still comes on board in 1976. What happens to Styx?

I think that JY was thinking the same way. But, there was the issue that the band he was in just prior to joining Styx (Tradewinds) was breaking up and he was looking to find a band in order to make money. As far as if he didn't join and someone else did, I don't think we would have heard of the band if things did not play out as they did.

JY's guitar style is all over the first three albums. If JY had not joined the band and Styx hired some type of George Harrison wannabe, I doubt a song like "Lady" would have been created as their break out song. To say Tommy would have been interested is a bit of a wild guess.

[Boomchild]

JY's guitar style is all over the first three albums. If JY had not joined the band and Styx hired some type of George Harrison wannabe, I doubt a song like "Lady" would have been created as their break out song. To say Tommy would have been interested is a bit of a wild guess.

I think DDY said it best. That it was the combination of all of them and their influences on each other that was responsible for their success.

[ztyxlynne]

I have seen some bands with a pretty rocky history put the past behind them. Fleetwood Mac, Eagle's, Motley Crew got back together at on time because if a fans getting together I believe. It would be nice to see them at least acknowledge DDY,s past with the band. Putting him back on there web site etc. Dennis has always said he would like to be back with them. I would also think with all he has been threw Chuck would like to out the past behind him. He has the most history with DDY.

[Toph]

I have seen some bands with a pretty rocky history put the past behind them. Fleetwood Mac, Eagle's, Motley Crew got back together at on time because if a fans getting together I believe. It would be nice to see them at least acknowledge DDY,s past with the band. Putting him back on there web site etc. Dennis has always said he would like to be back with them. I would also think with all he has been threw Chuck would like to out the past behind him. He has the most history with DDY.

John's death affected the chemistry too. I feel like John would have told JY and company to lighten up and would have said let's put all this petty bs behind us and let's all get back together and have some fun!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

From everything I have ever read in 35+ years, Tommy and Dennis were not particularly close outside the band. None of them were, outside the brothers, of course. I read an interview by Tommy in which he said that in all the years he lived in Michigan, Dennis was there only once. Tommy was from a background of bands that had extreme camaraderie as they traveled the country, working and playing and partying together, even crashing on each other's couches. Styx was never like that. It was businesslike. Everyone likes to romanticize that their favorite bands are all the best of buds, but in the majority of cases, it's just not so.

As for the Borders show, so what? Dennis stopped by and sang with a bandmate. They joked and got along well. Again, so what? Just shows that they were able to set aside past differences and feelings for an afternoon. Showed maturity on both their parts.

When Styx first started out they packed up their cars with their equipment and traveled around the Chicago and Wisconsin area, after the shows they would pack it back up and drive back home. I'm sure a few of them slept on couches on the road. They did start out as friends, if I'm not mistaken, DDY and JY were close friends back in the day.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

http://www.racerrecords.com/styx/styxontheroad2.html


The group's first album, "Styx," was re corded on a cold winter night in 1972 for the Wooden Nickel label. So elated were they to finally have a record contract that they made a "pact" to devote all their time to Styx. At that point all were involved with other careers: Dennis taught music appreciation; John Panozzo was a seminary student; Chuck was an art teacher; John Curulewskl was a carpenter, and J. Y. drove a cab.

FOR TWO YEARS they continued to play "beer parties and 'Animal House' type affairs," recorded three more albums for Wooden Nickel and became increasingly frustrated and mystified by their lack of success.

"Those were hard times," DeYoung recalls, shortly before taking the stage in San Diego. "We were playing Chicago because we couldn't get hired anywhere else but we knew we were good enough to have all of this." He points around the stylish lobby. "But we started to have serious doubts about our music and about our futures."

[FormerDJMike]

I love that racer records site, have visited it many times over the years. It was abandoned years ago I'm surprised it is still up.

[yogi]

Who is Kristi? She ran Racer Records and had the Paradise Theater Website. Does she ever visit or post on this site?

Thanks for posting this GREAT read Suite. Hope all is going well.

[FormerDJMike]

Who is Kristi? She ran Racer Records and had the Paradise Theater Website. Does she ever visit or post on this site?

Thanks for posting this GREAT read Suite. Hope all is going well.

Not sure I haven't heard anything from her in almost 20 years. I know she is an outspoken advocate against Scientology and may have no online presence at all. As far as I know she isn't here and probably never has been.

[Monker]

Who is Kristi? She ran Racer Records and had the Paradise Theater Website. Does she ever visit or post on this site?

Thanks for posting this GREAT read Suite. Hope all is going well.

Not sure I haven't heard anything from her in almost 20 years. I know she is an outspoken advocate against Scientology and may have no online presence at all. As far as I know she isn't here and probably never has been.

Her name sounds familiar. I don't know where I heard it from, though. Maybe the Styx mailing list, or the olden days on Prodigy, etc. Here is her blog;

http://www.kristi-wachter.com/

[FormerDJMike]

Who is Kristi? She ran Racer Records and had the Paradise Theater Website. Does she ever visit or post on this site?

Thanks for posting this GREAT read Suite. Hope all is going well.

Not sure I haven't heard anything from her in almost 20 years. I know she is an outspoken advocate against Scientology and may have no online presence at all. As far as I know she isn't here and probably never has been.

Her name sounds familiar. I don't know where I heard it from, though. Maybe the Styx mailing list, or the olden days on Prodigy, etc. Here is her blog;

http://www.kristi-wachter.com/

I remember the old snail-mail list. Was some cool stuff in the mid and late 80's.

[brywool]

The Borders show reminded me that Dennis even showed up to on of the JYG's shows in support of Raised By Wolves and sang "Rockin' The Paradise" with them.

Didn't know this.

[FormerDJMike]

The Borders show reminded me that Dennis even showed up to on of the JYG's shows in support of Raised By Wolves and sang "Rockin' The Paradise" with them.

Didn't know this.

Yep! Wish I remember the date but when Raised By Wolves came out they were playing clubs and when they played a night in Chicago Dennis showed up and sang RTP with them. I remember reading something about it in one of the old newsletters or on the indra list when it actually had good info on it.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Who is Kristi? She ran Racer Records and had the Paradise Theater Website. Does she ever visit or post on this site?

Thanks for posting this GREAT read Suite. Hope all is going well.

You're welcome Yogi Things are going great. I read this site once in a while, it's always the same thing when I read it.

I posted this in another thread.............. DDY will be making new music with his band. I'm looking forward to it.

I wish you were on Facebook

[yogi]

Suite because of my job I cant do any social media ( facebook, twitter, etc....) My wife has a facebook. (Gina) Would have PM this to you but I cant figure out how. I no longer see any PM icon. Where is it?? Anyway, hope you & your family are doing well. Looking forward to DDYs new material again.