New lyrics to Goodbye Roseland

[Monker]

Correct. The timing was bad. When Tommy wanted the band back together Dennis could not do it and when Dennis finally could and was ready to record Tommy had just starting recording the Damn Yankees album.

I'm sure JY along with Chuck & John were pissed since Dennis had stated that there would not be a Styx without Tommy and now Tommy had committed to Damn Yankees.

Like Dennis has stated the timing was off because first he could not get back with Styx when Tommy wanted to, then Tommy couldn't when Dennis could.

You're missing the point.Tommy, as he was wont to do in some many other dealings with the band, at best, misled them into believing he was on board, when, in fact, he was already signed to Damn Yankees. Some would call it a bold faced lie...

Why don't you stop looking for a way to blame Tommy and JY for every situation that came up in Styx. This situation was NOBODY's 'fault' and anybody who was reading interviews at that time knows it.

[Toph]

No you are missing the point which came straight out of Dennis's mouth.

Tommy originally called Dennis to get the band back together and Dennis could NOT commit due to his Boomchild MCA commitments.

I have not a clue how long Tommy waited or how long Dennis's commitments had Dennis tied up. It was not talked about on the CD I have with Dennis telling the story. But once Dennis was free to pursue his interests in Styx Tommy was not as he had moved on and was working with Ted Nugent, Jack Blades etc with Damn Yankees.

That's it and that's the story. When Tommy could Dennis couldn't and when Dennis could Tommy couldn't. The way I also read it was there was no hard feelings between Tommy and Dennis as they both understood the situations.


I'm sure JY, Chuck and John were not happy as Tommy & Dennis were the main cogs in the band. As big as Out On A Day Pass was (3 burgers each from Burger King) , You know they needed Dennis and Tommy to bring in the $$$$$.

No, you are missing the point. Did you not read what I transcribed from Sterling's book. We are talking about two separate incidents. You are referring to discussions that happened during the recording of Boomchild. There were also discussions AFTER BOOMCHILD was over and done with. This is when Tommy was talking out of both sides of his mouth. He was negotiating with Styx AFTERr he had signed on with Damn Yankees. So much so, that Styx believed he was on board to record the new album. Why else would Styx have given him the specifics behind the when the pre production meetings would be for Edge of the Century? Why would they have been so shocked only to find out he had signed with Damn Yankees when they thought he was on board for a new Styx album?

[Toph]

What this sounds like to me is this Steven guy didn't have all the facts and is filling it in with opinion. When Tommy's contract was over, HE CALLED DENNIS. That is established FACT that both Dennis and Tommy agree with and stated in several interviews. It is also established FACT that Dennis was committed to Boomchild when Tommy called. Both Tommy and Dennis have said so in interviews.

From the Grand Delusion, pg 216

Steven A. Jones: There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, "Well, we'll put the band together, and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not." I just know that they were talking with him and they felt that somehow he was not representing his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. That he was still negotiating to be in the band when he couldn't be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me....

Pg 217 - In the meantime, the other four members of Styx had reached a tentative deal regarding a reunion, and Dennis DeYoung called Tommy in LA to tell him to get ready to come to Chicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Tommy's new band Damn Yankees recording its debut album, and Tommy had to tell a disappointed DeYoung that he had already made a commitment elsewhere. The news drove another wedge between Shaw and the other musicians.

Tommy Shaw - I think JY was really mad because when I joined Damn Yankees, I had been discussing rejoining Styx....

It is also a fact that Tommy was negotiating with Styx and leading them on to believe he would participate in an album AFTER he had signed with Damn Yankees. Pg 217 of Sterling's book.

[Toph]

Correct. The timing was bad. When Tommy wanted the band back together Dennis could not do it and when Dennis finally could and was ready to record Tommy had just starting recording the Damn Yankees album.

I'm sure JY along with Chuck & John were pissed since Dennis had stated that there would not be a Styx without Tommy and now Tommy had committed to Damn Yankees.

Like Dennis has stated the timing was off because first he could not get back with Styx when Tommy wanted to, then Tommy couldn't when Dennis could.

You're missing the point.Tommy, as he was wont to do in some many other dealings with the band, at best, misled them into believing he was on board, when, in fact, he was already signed to Damn Yankees. Some would call it a bold faced lie...

Why don't you stop looking for a way to blame Tommy and JY for every situation that came up in Styx. This situation was NOBODY's 'fault' and anybody who was reading interviews at that time knows it.

Not blaming JY here. He was on board and was arranging pre-production meetings for the recording of Edge. He also was under the impression that Tommy Shaw was going to be a part of those meetings based upon what Tommy had indicated to him. What pissed him off was when he found out that Tommy had been stringing him along, having already committed to DY and still talking to Styx. Do you not comprehend pg 216-217 of Sterling's book?

[gr8dane]

Too funny.All of a sudden Sterling's book is all proof now it's convenient for you toph.
When I was referring to page 294 a while back,where Dennis makes a total ass of himself towards Tommy,
we should not use the book as reference,since it wasn't Tommy or Dennis that was being interviewed.
Sterling's book was a good read but nothing more,not to be taken for granted,due to the fact Styx was not the source.

Funny how things change.

[Toph]

Too funny.All of a sudden Sterling's book is all proof now it's convenient for you toph.
When I was referring to page 294 a while back,where Dennis makes a total ass of himself towards Tommy,
we should not use the book as reference,since it wasn't Tommy or Dennis that was being interviewed.
Sterling's book was a good read but nothing more,not to be taken for granted,due to the fact Styx was not the source.

Funny how things change.

And how you become so dismissive of it, when it is critical of your hero.....

[Monker]

What this sounds like to me is this Steven guy didn't have all the facts and is filling it in with opinion. When Tommy's contract was over, HE CALLED DENNIS. That is established FACT that both Dennis and Tommy agree with and stated in several interviews. It is also established FACT that Dennis was committed to Boomchild when Tommy called. Both Tommy and Dennis have said so in interviews.

From the Grand Delusion, pg 216

Steven A. Jones: There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, "Well, we'll put the band together, and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not." I just know that they were talking with him and they felt that somehow he was not representing his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. That he was still negotiating to be in the band when he couldn't be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me....

Pg 217 - In the meantime, the other four members of Styx had reached a tentative deal regarding a reunion, and Dennis DeYoung called Tommy in LA to tell him to get ready to come to Chicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Tommy's new band Damn Yankees recording its debut album, and Tommy had to tell a disappointed DeYoung that he had already made a commitment elsewhere. The news drove another wedge between Shaw and the other musicians.

Tommy Shaw - I think JY was really mad because when I joined Damn Yankees, I had been discussing rejoining Styx....

It is also a fact that Tommy was negotiating with Styx and leading them on to believe he would participate in an album AFTER he had signed with Damn Yankees. Pg 217 of Sterling's book.

Well, ok, I guess Dennis is a tucking like then. What an asshole.

[Boomchild]

You're missing the point.Tommy, as he was wont to do in some many other dealings with the band, at best, misled them into believing he was on board, when, in fact, he was already signed to Damn Yankees. Some would call it a bold faced lie...

Seems to me you are really digging around for something that just isn't there. At any rate, what does it matter?

[Boomchild]

No, you are missing the point. Did you not read what I transcribed from Sterling's book. We are talking about two separate incidents. You are referring to discussions that happened during the recording of Boomchild. There were also discussions AFTER BOOMCHILD was over and done with. This is when Tommy was talking out of both sides of his mouth. He was negotiating with Styx AFTERr he had signed on with Damn Yankees. So much so, that Styx believed he was on board to record the new album. Why else would Styx have given him the specifics behind the when the pre production meetings would be for Edge of the Century? Why would they have been so shocked only to find out he had signed with Damn Yankees when they thought he was on board for a new Styx album?

Seems to me you are assuming that the person quoted in Sterling's book had all the facts. Which none of us really knows. It could be possible that originally TS thought the Damn Yankees thing was going to be a one off deal and did not anticipate that it was going to do as well as it did. TS also could have thought that DY would have been more of a side project and that he would also be able to work with Styx. We should just be thankful that a reunion eventually did happen. Because when they parted ways in '84 it seemed as if that was never ever going to happen.

[Toph]

You're missing the point.Tommy, as he was wont to do in some many other dealings with the band, at best, misled them into believing he was on board, when, in fact, he was already signed to Damn Yankees. Some would call it a bold faced lie...

Seems to me you are really digging around for something that just isn't there. At any rate, what does it matter?

OK, Hillary... I don't know how I can make it clearer. My initial point was Shaw misled the band into rejoining after Monkeyboy claimed it was DDY who lied.

[Toph]

No, you are missing the point. Did you not read what I transcribed from Sterling's book. We are talking about two separate incidents. You are referring to discussions that happened during the recording of Boomchild. There were also discussions AFTER BOOMCHILD was over and done with. This is when Tommy was talking out of both sides of his mouth. He was negotiating with Styx AFTERr he had signed on with Damn Yankees. So much so, that Styx believed he was on board to record the new album. Why else would Styx have given him the specifics behind the when the pre production meetings would be for Edge of the Century? Why would they have been so shocked only to find out he had signed with Damn Yankees when they thought he was on board for a new Styx album?

Seems to me you are assuming that the person quoted in Sterling's book had all the facts. Which none of us really knows. It could be possible that originally TS thought the Damn Yankees thing was going to be a one off deal and did not anticipate that it was going to do as well as it did. TS also could have thought that DY would have been more of a side project and that he would also be able to work with Styx. We should just be thankful that a reunion eventually did happen. Because when they parted ways in '84 it seemed as if that was never ever going to happen.

The second quote is from Sterling himself. Tommy Shaw was negotiating with Styx when he had already signed a contract to record with Damn Yankees. He left Styx high and dry. How else would Styx feel that talks were so far along that they would call him with pre-production details for Edge?

Not that hard to figure out.

[Toph]

/quote]

Well, ok, I guess Dennis is a tucking like then. What an asshole.

If you want to speak in coherent English, I might be able to respond.

[Boomchild]

OK, Hillary... I don't know how I can make it clearer. My initial point was Shaw misled the band into rejoining after Monkeyboy claimed it was DDY who lied.

From what Dennis has publicly said about the events, it doesn't seem that the situation pissed him off or that he felt Tommy was "stringing" him along. So why should it concern you? Your weren't even involved or privy to the actual conversations between them. Plus, you still haven't explained why it even matters at this point.

[Boomchild]

The second quote is from Sterling himself. Tommy Shaw was negotiating with Styx when he had already signed a contract to record with Damn Yankees. He left Styx high and dry. How else would Styx feel that talks were so far along that they would call him with pre-production details for Edge?

Not that hard to figure out.

Keep in mind you are quoting from a book that is unauthorized and doesn't contain all the facts and details. Tommy was not under any contract or agreement to get back with Styx. Even if he had already signed a deal with DY it doesn't mean that he could not have signed another contract with Styx. If you must put blame on someone who screwed the first reunion attempt, then you should point the finger at DDY. DDY stated that when Tommy FIRST called him about a reunion possibility it was DDY who said he could not due to other commitments. What should not be hard to figure out is that DDY never indicated that this situation created any ill will between them. Any ill will, rift or frustration mentioned has come from hearsay.

If you are going to be judgmental about Tommy's actions when it came to their first reunion attempts, then you should be just as judgmental about DDY. After they finally did reunite and were performing and planing to release a new album, DDY goes and continues his work and production for Hunchback. This of course was AFTER he was committed to Styx.

[Monker]

I didn't call Dennis a liar, I called YOU a liar. But, obiously you are just completely ignorant of, well, everything.

This is what happened, according to Dennis AND Tommy.

Tommy's solo contract ends so he calls Dennis:
"Mr. DeYoung, my solo contract has ended. Can we talk about a Styx reunion? You know, I have to work and stuff."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I'm right in the middle of all the promotion for the last album on my solo contract. Let me get through this and then we will talk."

Tommy waits a bit, but then was encouraged to get together with Ted and Jack. So, he calls Dennis again.

"Mr DeYoung, how about that Styx reunion we talked about a while back? I'm still looking for work."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I'm shooting a video for my last song from Boomchild. After that, I'm done with my contract and I will be freed up for Styx. We'll talk at that time."

"But, Mr. DeYoung, there is this thing with Ted Nugent and Jack Blades. We're talking about recording an album..."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I can't tell you to not do it..."

So, Tommy goes and starts recording with Ted and Jack. Dennis finishes up Boomchild and talks to the rest of the band about a Styx reunion...and then calls Tommy.

"We're ready for that Styx reunion now, Mr. Shaw. We are getting together to start planning the album..."

"Well, sorry Mr. DeYoung but I'm now starting to record an album with Ted and Jack."

"Oh, well, that kinda sucks."

"I know but that's the way it goes sometimes."

Then, since Dennis had the rest of the band together and talking, they move on without Tommy.

That is the way Dennis describes it. That's the way Tommy describes it. What is written in that book is trumped by multiple interviews by BOTH of them. if there were different stories from those two, I'd say maybe you have a point. Dennis was not pulling any punches in his interviews at that time...even implying Tommy and JY were a couple liars who could not get their story straight. So, if what you are saying would be even partly true, I have no doubt he would have called Tommy out on it. Instead he had this very "matter of fact" way of explaining it away.

You OBVIOUSLY were not paying attention AT THAT TIME and are now relying on hear-say information from a book. You don't know what you are talking about, at all. In fact, I remember in the days of froyline, he said Dennis delayed the reunion intentionaly to kick Tommy out of the band to remove the drug addict. Even he accepted the timeline above - BECAUSE IT COMES FROM DENNIS DEYOUNG...not Sterling, not some guy named Steve, not some other third pary - but from THE MAN himself.

Dennis isn't lying, he is telling the complete truth - and YOU don't believe him.

[Toph]

The second quote is from Sterling himself. Tommy Shaw was negotiating with Styx when he had already signed a contract to record with Damn Yankees. He left Styx high and dry. How else would Styx feel that talks were so far along that they would call him with pre-production details for Edge?

Not that hard to figure out.

Keep in mind you are quoting from a book that is unauthorized and doesn't contain all the facts and details. Tommy was not under any contract or agreement to get back with Styx. Even if he had already signed a deal with DY it doesn't mean that he could not have signed another contract with Styx. If you must put blame on someone who screwed the first reunion attempt, then you should point the finger at DDY. DDY stated that when Tommy FIRST called him about a reunion possibility it was DDY who said he could not due to other commitments. What should not be hard to figure out is that DDY never indicated that this situation created any ill will between them. Any ill will, rift or frustration mentioned has come from hearsay.

If you are going to be judgmental about Tommy's actions when it came to their first reunion attempts, then you should be just as judgmental about DDY. After they finally did reunite and were performing and planing to release a new album, DDY goes and continues his work and production for Hunchback. This of course was AFTER he was committed to Styx.

God Boomer, you are almost as much of a Tommy sympathizer as Monkeyboy and Great. But once again, you are wrong. Here's the difference. Dennis didn't say to Tommy - sure let's do a Styx album and then said, at the last minute, oh wait...I can't. Dennis never was negotiating in good faith with the band only to say, hey, wait a minute, now I can't get back together. Tommy Shaw by 2 different sources - Steven A Jones and Sterling Weaver (which you just summarily discount, even though Sterling Weaver spent the better part of 3 years talking to those involved in the story so I think he knows a lot more about what went on than you did as a "fan.")

And the Hunchback thing was 9 fucking years later. Let's stick to what was going on in 1989 for Pete's sake. That's as bad as Obama going back to the Crusades to indict Christians. It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. And, for what it's worth, Tommy did a solo album them as well.

[Toph]

I didn't call Dennis a liar, I called YOU a liar. But, obiously you are just completely ignorant of, well, everything.

This is what happened, according to Dennis AND Tommy.

Tommy's solo contract ends so he calls Dennis:
"Mr. DeYoung, my solo contract has ended. Can we talk about a Styx reunion? You know, I have to work and stuff."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I'm right in the middle of all the promotion for the last album on my solo contract. I'm shooting a video for my last song from Boomchild. After that, I'm done with my contract and I will be freed up for Styx. We'll talk at that time."

"Mr. DeYoung, there is this thing with Ted Nugent and Jack Blades. We're talking about recording an album..."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I can't tell you to not do it..."

"Mr. DeYoung, So when are we are going to record this Styx album. I'd really like to be a part of it."

"Mr. Shaw, JY is ironing out the final details with the record company. Are you in for being a part of it?"

"Mr. DeYoung, I am committed to being a part of it. Let's talk about how everything will be managed financially."

(FINANCIAL DETAILS ARE WORKED OUT)

"Mr. Shaw, we should be good to go any day now, so start blocking out some time on your calendar. I'll have JY call you with the specifics."

"Mr. DeYoung, sounds great."

JY calls Shaw - "Tommy glad to hear you are ready to get the band back together. I'll be sending you the paperwork to sign off on. Pre-production will be in Chicago starting next week and at that time we'll lay out the recording schedule."

"Mr. Young, I actually can't make it to Chicago next week. In fact, I can't participate at all. See, today we first started recording the new Damn Yankees album. And, then I'm committed to touring with the album for the next year and a half."

JY - "Tommy, What The Fuck?!?!?!?"

WRONG!!!

I've edited your comments for the truth. You are way off. Learn to read. And to tell the truth at least once in a blue moon.

[Monker]

Dude, this doesn't even match up with some of the things you said in prior posts. Whatever.

When I go back and read Sterling's quote...it matches up with what I said. What doesn't match up is what that Steven guy said. Who was he? The video producer? Regardless, he is saying "he thinks", etc, and he is obviously guessing at what was going on and is filling in with his opinion...I'll take what Dennis and Tommy said over that, or your changing story.

I didn't call Dennis a liar, I called YOU a liar. But, obiously you are just completely ignorant of, well, everything.

This is what happened, according to Dennis AND Tommy.

Tommy's solo contract ends so he calls Dennis:
"Mr. DeYoung, my solo contract has ended. Can we talk about a Styx reunion? You know, I have to work and stuff."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I'm right in the middle of all the promotion for the last album on my solo contract. I'm shooting a video for my last song from Boomchild. After that, I'm done with my contract and I will be freed up for Styx. We'll talk at that time."

"Mr. DeYoung, there is this thing with Ted Nugent and Jack Blades. We're talking about recording an album..."

"Well, Mr. Shaw, I can't tell you to not do it..."

"Mr. DeYoung, So when are we are going to record this Styx album. I'd really like to be a part of it."

"Mr. Shaw, JY is ironing out the final details with the record company. Are you in for being a part of it?"

"Mr. DeYoung, I am committed to being a part of it. Let's talk about how everything will be managed financially."

(FINANCIAL DETAILS ARE WORKED OUT)

"Mr. Shaw, we should be good to go any day now, so start blocking out some time on your calendar. I'll have JY call you with the specifics."

"Mr. DeYoung, sounds great."

JY calls Shaw - "Tommy glad to hear you are ready to get the band back together. I'll be sending you the paperwork to sign off on. Pre-production will be in Chicago starting next week and at that time we'll lay out the recording schedule."

"Mr. Young, I actually can't make it to Chicago next week. In fact, I can't participate at all. See, today we first started recording the new Damn Yankees album. And, then I'm committed to touring with the album for the next year and a half."

JY - "Tommy, What The Fuck?!?!?!?"

WRONG!!!

I've edited your comments for the truth. You are way off. Learn to read. And to tell the truth at least once in a blue moon.

[gr8dane]

Topher got it right of course.
Steven Jones and Sterling Weaver that nobody knows who is,
knows more about what Tommy and Dennis said, than
Tommy and Dennis themselves.
It's much clearer now.

[Boomchild]

God Boomer, you are almost as much of a Tommy sympathizer as Monkeyboy and Great. But once again, you are wrong. Here's the difference. Dennis didn't say to Tommy - sure let's do a Styx album and then said, at the last minute, oh wait...I can't. Dennis never was negotiating in good faith with the band only to say, hey, wait a minute, now I can't get back together. Tommy Shaw by 2 different sources - Steven A Jones and Sterling Weaver (which you just summarily discount, even though Sterling Weaver spent the better part of 3 years talking to those involved in the story so I think he knows a lot more about what went on than you did as a "fan.")

And the Hunchback thing was 9 fucking years later. Let's stick to what was going on in 1989 for Pete's sake. That's as bad as Obama going back to the Crusades to indict Christians. It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. And, for what it's worth, Tommy did a solo album them as well.

Tommy sympathizer I think not. I believe what Dennis has said about the situation and not second\third parties. All I'm saying is that Dennis didn't get his panties all in a bunch with the situation but yours seem to be. How Dennis and others directly involved feel is all that really matters. Speaking about my point about the Hunchback thing, that should be more upsetting. You have all the other band members focused on bringing Styx back to life and Dennis decides to push on with the HB production. Doing the Styx shows in '97 while at the same time doing casting and production work for HB. Working himself to a "nub" as DDY put it. Which in turn effected his health which then caused issues when Styx was ready to go back on the road. It's about commitment. One could argue that DDY brought his commitment to Styx into question by going off to do HB when Styx was in the middle of trying re kindle the band. But, nice attempt on trying to deflect on the subject of commitment. Your fixated on time when they weren't even back together and were just in talks about doing it.

[Toph]

God Boomer, you are almost as much of a Tommy sympathizer as Monkeyboy and Great. But once again, you are wrong. Here's the difference. Dennis didn't say to Tommy - sure let's do a Styx album and then said, at the last minute, oh wait...I can't. Dennis never was negotiating in good faith with the band only to say, hey, wait a minute, now I can't get back together. Tommy Shaw by 2 different sources - Steven A Jones and Sterling Weaver (which you just summarily discount, even though Sterling Weaver spent the better part of 3 years talking to those involved in the story so I think he knows a lot more about what went on than you did as a "fan.")

And the Hunchback thing was 9 fucking years later. Let's stick to what was going on in 1989 for Pete's sake. That's as bad as Obama going back to the Crusades to indict Christians. It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. And, for what it's worth, Tommy did a solo album them as well.

Tommy sympathizer I think not. I believe what Dennis has said about the situation and not second\third parties. All I'm saying is that Dennis didn't get his panties all in a bunch with the situation but yours seem to be. How Dennis and others directly involved feel is all that really matters. Speaking about my point about the Hunchback thing, that should be more upsetting. You have all the other band members focused on bringing Styx back to life and Dennis decides to push on with the HB production. Doing the Styx shows in '97 while at the same time doing casting and production work for HB. Working himself to a "nub" as DDY put it. Which in turn effected his health which then caused issues when Styx was ready to go back on the road. It's about commitment. One could argue that DDY brought his commitment to Styx into question by going off to do HB when Styx was in the middle of trying re kindle the band. But, nice attempt on trying to deflect on the subject of commitment. Your fixated on time when they weren't even back together and were just in talks about doing it.

Nope! Wrong again Boom head! Dennis has let the band know that he had the HB committment upfront. They were NOT I repeat, were NOT supposed to tour again in 1997, but the 1996 tour went so well and a certain band member "needed money" (never named, you could argue Chuck because of HIV treatments or maybe Shaw) so Dennis put HB on the BACK BURNER to tour in 1997 so that the band member could get a financial windfall. And here's a clue for you - side projects happen all the time in bands so don't go blaming the delay in 1998 on Dennis. Tommy did a solo album as well.

[Cassie May]

Oh Jesus Christ, who gives a flying fuck?? Why do you keep beating the same dead horse over and over again that NOBODY cares about except you??? This is all ancient history, it's over, it's done, and nobody cares. Is your life that empty, Toph? Does Dennis appreciate how strident you are in your never-ending, undying, devotion to and defense of him? Move on! And seek psychiatric help.

[yogi]

Here is a little know fact that may add some fuel to Poth's fire. Back in the 90s when Dennis had signed on with MCA and was about to launch his Boomchild album JY had joined forces with some fellow Chi town studio musicians to from the short lived band Dr. Rightous and the Double Life Orchestra.

He did two shows, one in Duluth MN and the other in Thunder Bay Canada. I happened to be in Thunder Bay that Night and what a show it was. When they started burning albums at the end of their second set it set off all the smoke detectors in the bar and that was it. Game ,set, match.

Rumor has it upon JY's return to the states Dennis caught wind of this and got his lawyers involved. Since Dennis had the rights to Kilroy, Jonathan Chance & Dr. Rightous JY's band folded.

I was one of maybe 250 people who got to see that band and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

IMO this is truly what got the bad blood brewing between JY & Dennis.

P.S. Some of this info can be found on page 479 of Sterling's upcoming second book on the band.

[gr8dane]

Here is a little know fact that may add some fuel to Poth's fire. Back in the 90s when Dennis had signed on with MCA and was about to launch his Boomchild album JY had joined forces with some fellow Chi town studio musicians to from the short lived band Dr. Rightous and the Double Life Orchestra.

He did two shows, one in Duluth MN and the other in Thunder Bay Canada. I happened to be in Thunder Bay that Night and what a show it was. When they started burning albums at the end of their second set it set off all the smoke detectors in the bar and that was it. Game ,set, match.

Rumor has it upon JY's return to the states Dennis caught wind of this and got his lawyers involved. Since Dennis had the rights to Kilroy, Jonathan Chance & Dr. Rightous JY's band folded.

I was one of maybe 250 people who got to see that band and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

IMO this is truly what got the bad blood brewing between JY & Dennis.

P.S. Some of this info can be found on page 479 of Sterling's upcoming second book on the band.

Sounds like a wonderful evening in Thunder Bay.Did they play Babe or First Time ?

I got an advance copy of Sterling's new book.
Chapter 5 is a classic.
It's about Dennis' big concept album and tour that was to follow Kilroy.
It was gonna about Dennis' love for his partner of a 100 years.

Needless to say,Tommy couldn't come up with any rockin' tunes about that subject.
Amazingly JY wrote his first ballad ever,with Lobo.
Song was gonna be called 'Me and you,and a dog named Sue'.

Sadly JY's song is in the vaults.Maybe one day.
Maybe at Dennis' 150 anniversary.

[Boomchild]

Nope! Wrong again Boom head! Dennis has let the band know that he had the HB committment upfront. They were NOT I repeat, were NOT supposed to tour again in 1997, but the 1996 tour went so well and a certain band member "needed money" (never named, you could argue Chuck because of HIV treatments or maybe Shaw) so Dennis put HB on the BACK BURNER to tour in 1997 so that the band member could get a financial windfall. And here's a clue for you - side projects happen all the time in bands so don't go blaming the delay in 1998 on Dennis. Tommy did a solo album as well.

Who said anything about whether they were or weren't supposed to tour in '97? The fact is that DDY did not put HB on the back burner. Go watch his interview on Behind the Music. That is where he talks about doing the '97 tour dates as well as doing the casting and production work for HB at the same time. The point that you are overlooking or ignoring is it puts into question DDY's full commitment to Styx. Add to that that by doing double duty he over worked himself which turned into an illness that interfered with the band's plans to go on the road. Which also of course caused tensions to resurface and Dennis' booting from the band. Sorry but calling HB a "side project" is an understatement. It's a lot more work then recording a solo album. Add to that Dennis being a high hands on type of artist.

[Toph]

Nope! Wrong again Boom head! Dennis has let the band know that he had the HB committment upfront. They were NOT I repeat, were NOT supposed to tour again in 1997, but the 1996 tour went so well and a certain band member "needed money" (never named, you could argue Chuck because of HIV treatments or maybe Shaw) so Dennis put HB on the BACK BURNER to tour in 1997 so that the band member could get a financial windfall. And here's a clue for you - side projects happen all the time in bands so don't go blaming the delay in 1998 on Dennis. Tommy did a solo album as well.

Who said anything about whether they were or weren't supposed to tour in '97? The fact is that DDY did not put HB on the back burner. Go watch his interview on Behind the Music. That is where he talks about doing the '97 tour dates as well as doing the casting and production work for HB at the same time. The point that you are overlooking or ignoring is it puts into question DDY's full commitment to Styx. Add to that that by doing double duty he over worked himself which turned into an illness that interfered with the band's plans to go on the road. Which also of course caused tensions to resurface and Dennis' booting from the band. Sorry but calling HB a "side project" is an understatement. It's a lot more work then recording a solo album. Add to that Dennis being a high hands on type of artist.

Wow, anyone home? You are charging Dennis with not putting the band first. My point is that he did. He put HB on the back burner in 1997 because he couldn't devote 100% of his time to it like they had planned. There were no plans to tour in 1997. None whatsoever. Dennis said in numerous interviews that the band had no plans to tour and it was open for him to work on HB while the band started readying songs for a new album in 1998. Band member needs financial assistance. DDY says, ok, i'll try to pull off both. He could have easily said, fuck you, we're not doing this until 1998 as we agreed to. In hindsight, that would have been a better decision - the novelty had worn off by the Grand Illusion tour and they weren't doing nearly as brisk of a business. Heck, in Atlanta, they came twice within the span of 10 months.

[Boomchild]

Wow, anyone home? You are charging Dennis with not putting the band first. My point is that he did.

The point is that he didn't. If he did, regardless if they were not supposed to be on the the road in '97 he would have been focused on Styx only business since they had just regrouped and were planning a new album release. If Styx was so much the love of his life he wouldn't have involved himself in something other then Styx. So this may have put his then and future commitment to Styx in question with the other members. Hence another reason they may have decided to move on without him. Seems to me that if Styx was so important to DDY he would have not gotten into any other projects at the same time as trying to forge a renewed Styx. So that is my take on it and you have yours. Simple as that.

[yogi]

Also heard that Dennis was suppose to sing two songs for JY's Raised By Wolves album but he didn't show up for the session thus angering JY who then refused to lifeguard at DDY's sons 17th birthday bash.

The rift had started.

[Monker]

If people think about it, Hunchback had been a thing for Dennis from the early 90's through the PBS tour and orchestra shwws. Around 15 years of promoting the show and pitching it to get a production going. Hatchback was his baby and I doubt anything was as important to him artistically. It is also silly to compare anything Tommy or JY did to Hunchback.

Bloomfield is right. Dennis thought he could do both...and he couldn't. But, imo, if he had to choose between Stys and Hunchback, hunchback would have won. And, in a way, that is exactly what happened. The point is, if he had given 100 percent to Styx, he would not have found himself in a position of being forced out of the band. I mean, one of his final contributions to the band is a Hunchback song on BNW. IT can't get more obvious than that.

[Toph]

Wow, anyone home? You are charging Dennis with not putting the band first. My point is that he did.

The point is that he didn't. If he did, regardless if they were not supposed to be on the the road in '97 he would have been focused on Styx only business since they had just regrouped and were planning a new album release. If Styx was so much the love of his life he wouldn't have involved himself in something other then Styx. So this may have put his then and future commitment to Styx in question with the other members. Hence another reason they may have decided to move on without him. Seems to me that if Styx was so important to DDY he would have not gotten into any other projects at the same time as trying to forge a renewed Styx. So that is my take on it and you have yours. Simple as that.

No, get your nose out of Tommy's ass. Why don't you blame him for doing solo album? Or for Damn Yankees? Or for fucking up their career from 1979-1983? For fucking up the Kilroy tour? So, again, I'll ask you Tommy-drooler, where is Tommy's allegiance? Love how you excuse everything Tommy does just to blame DeYoung.