Question on DDY Grand Illusion album vocal production

[Toph]

Were DeYoung lead vocals double tracked on The Grand Illusion? On parts of Grand Illusion, Come Sail Away ("A gathering of angels..."), Castle Walls, and Grand Finale, the production makes it either sound like he was double tracked or there was a bit of an echo in the production. Any recording experts have an opinion on this?

[gr8dane]

Anorak

[Toph]

Anorak

FUCK YOU

[gr8dane]

Anorak

FUCK YOU

No,fuck you very much.

[Toph]

Anorak

FUCK YOU

No,fuck you very much.

Fuck you asshole

[pinkfloyd1973]

[Baron Von Bielski]

I know, did I miss something? It's not the biggest insult I've ever heard. However it does seem a bit obsessive to wanna know about a subject so trivial. No offense intended.

[Toph]

I know, did I miss something? It's not the biggest insult I've ever heard. However it does seem a bit obsessive to wanna know about a subject so trivial. No offense intended.

How is that trivial? I thought this was a board where you can discuss things about the band? Forgive me if I asked what I thought was a legitimate question. Why is wanting to understand the vocal production of their biggest album so offbase?

[Boomchild]

I know, did I miss something? It's not the biggest insult I've ever heard. However it does seem a bit obsessive to wanna know about a subject so trivial. No offense intended.

How is that trivial? I thought this was a board where you can discuss things about the band? Forgive me if I asked what I thought was a legitimate question. Why is wanting to understand the vocal production of their biggest album so offbase?

I see nothing odd about the question. What you have here is someone looking to get a rise out of you. Best option is to just ignore it. If you don't, you just feed the troll like behavior. You give that person exactly what they are looking for. Attention.

[masque]

toph, yes, the vocals were most certainly double tracked in spots on the record. that was and still is a very common practice to give the vocal production a fuller sound.

many people think double tracking vocals is easy and it actually can be very time consuming and exhausting to do it correctly.....of course, the better the singer, the easier it will be for them to do, but it still is a task.

[Toph]

toph, yes, the vocals were most certainly double tracked in spots on the record. that was and still is a very common practice to give the vocal production a fuller sound.

many people think double tracking vocals is easy and it actually can be very time consuming and exhausting to do it correctly.....of course, the better the singer, the easier it will be for them to do, but it still is a task.

Thanks masque for your response. Appreciate it. To my untrained ear, it seems like, more than any other Styx album, that there are parts of GI that have an echo-ey resonating sound and I wondered a) why they did it for that album, and b) why they stopped doing it in later albums. Maybe it was a Barry Mraz type thing. I do know that the first 3 Journey albums had very elaborate production attributes - each member singing all the harmony parts on multiple tracks - that is why you get such rich harmonies of something like Feelin' That Way/Anytime. Just was wondering to the extent Styx experimented in its vocal production - that album is one that I personally can hear it, but don't really hear it in other LPs.

[Abitaman]

Wasn't Feeling that Way on the 4th album?
But yes both Journey and Boston have layered vocals and just some effects. I have heard it on some Styx song too.

[yogi]

Feeling That Way & Anytime were off of Infinity which to me was Journey's BEST album.

Kind of like for me Equinox was Styx's best ever album. I felt the same way about Infinity

[Monker]

toph, yes, the vocals were most certainly double tracked in spots on the record. that was and still is a very common practice to give the vocal production a fuller sound.

many people think double tracking vocals is easy and it actually can be very time consuming and exhausting to do it correctly.....of course, the better the singer, the easier it will be for them to do, but it still is a task.

Thanks masque for your response. Appreciate it. To my untrained ear, it seems like, more than any other Styx album, that there are parts of GI that have an echo-ey resonating sound and I wondered a) why they did it for that album, and b) why they stopped doing it in later albums. Maybe it was a Barry Mraz type thing. I do know that the first 3 Journey albums had very elaborate production attributes - each member singing all the harmony parts on multiple tracks - that is why you get such rich harmonies of something like Feelin' That Way/Anytime. Just was wondering to the extent Styx experimented in its vocal production - that album is one that I personally can hear it, but don't really hear it in other LPs.

Wtf are you talking about? The first three journey albums hardly had any vocals at all, it seems. The Roy Thomas baker produced albums, starting with Infinity, had all of the sonic layers. Journey moved away from that sound because they liked how they sounded live better. I agree...the RTB albums seem over produced after listening to the same songs on Captured and quality boots.

Layering vocals is so common that it really is a lame question. If you listen, you can hear steve perry backing himself up on later Journey albums and solo stuff. Styx was simply doing what everybody else was doing.

[Toph]

toph, yes, the vocals were most certainly double tracked in spots on the record. that was and still is a very common practice to give the vocal production a fuller sound.

many people think double tracking vocals is easy and it actually can be very time consuming and exhausting to do it correctly.....of course, the better the singer, the easier it will be for them to do, but it still is a task.

Thanks masque for your response. Appreciate it. To my untrained ear, it seems like, more than any other Styx album, that there are parts of GI that have an echo-ey resonating sound and I wondered a) why they did it for that album, and b) why they stopped doing it in later albums. Maybe it was a Barry Mraz type thing. I do know that the first 3 Journey albums had very elaborate production attributes - each member singing all the harmony parts on multiple tracks - that is why you get such rich harmonies of something like Feelin' That Way/Anytime. Just was wondering to the extent Styx experimented in its vocal production - that album is one that I personally can hear it, but don't really hear it in other LPs.

Wtf are you talking about? The first three journey albums hardly had any vocals at all, it seems. The Roy Thomas baker produced albums, starting with Infinity, had all of the sonic layers. Journey moved away from that sound because they liked how they sounded live better. I agree...the RTB albums seem over produced after listening to the same songs on Captured and quality boots.

Layering vocals is so common that it really is a lame question. If you listen, you can hear steve perry backing himself up on later Journey albums and solo stuff. Styx was simply doing what everybody else was doing.

When I said first 3 Journey albums, I meant Perry albums. But I know how you like to be critical, so my mistake in not specifically saying Perry.

But again, I want to point out that I was wanting to discuss a legitimate topic and the two trolls, Gr8t and moniker, decide to use it as yet another opportunity to show their true colors. Thanks guys.

[Toph]

toph, yes, the vocals were most certainly double tracked in spots on the record. that was and still is a very common practice to give the vocal production a fuller sound.

many people think double tracking vocals is easy and it actually can be very time consuming and exhausting to do it correctly.....of course, the better the singer, the easier it will be for them to do, but it still is a task.

Thanks masque for your response. Appreciate it. To my untrained ear, it seems like, more than any other Styx album, that there are parts of GI that have an echo-ey resonating sound and I wondered a) why they did it for that album, and b) why they stopped doing it in later albums. Maybe it was a Barry Mraz type thing. I do know that the first 3 Journey albums had very elaborate production attributes - each member singing all the harmony parts on multiple tracks - that is why you get such rich harmonies of something like Feelin' That Way/Anytime. Just was wondering to the extent Styx experimented in its vocal production - that album is one that I personally can hear it, but don't really hear it in other LPs.

Wtf are you talking about? The first three journey albums hardly had any vocals at all, it seems. The Roy Thomas baker produced albums, starting with Infinity, had all of the sonic layers. Journey moved away from that sound because they liked how they sounded live better. I agree...the RTB albums seem over produced after listening to the same songs on Captured and quality boots.

Layering vocals is so common that it really is a lame question. If you listen, you can hear steve perry backing himself up on later Journey albums and solo stuff. Styx was simply doing what everybody else was doing.

And I'm specifically talking about the echo effect on the lead vocals on Grand Illusion.

[gr8dane]

You're welcome toph.

[Monker]

When I said first 3 Journey albums, I meant Perry albums. But I know how you like to be critical, so my mistake in not specifically saying Perry.

Geez, they are not "Perry albums". Perry only had two solo albums and some compliations. They are Journey albums with Steve Perry singing.

But again, I want to point out that I was wanting to discuss a legitimate topic and the two trolls, Gr8t and moniker, decide to use it as yet another opportunity to show their true colors. Thanks guys.

Oh, my true color is to correct your ignorance when it comes to Journey. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about most of the time, but you try to express your words in a way that shows that you do.

If you want to talk about GI and the vocal production, go ahead. I'm not stopping you. Are you going to whine and play the victim some more?

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

[Boomchild]

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

Spoken like a true pompous, self important ass.

[Monker]

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

Spoken like a true pompous, self important ass.

Absolutely.

But, not a 'troll'.

[gr8dane]

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

Spoken like a true pompous, self important ass.

Absolutely.

But, not a 'troll'.

Pompous rumpus ?

[Boomchild]

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

Spoken like a true pompous, self important ass.

Absolutely.

But, not a 'troll'.

Not so sure about that.

[Toph]

When I said first 3 Journey albums, I meant Perry albums. But I know how you like to be critical, so my mistake in not specifically saying Perry.

Geez, they are not "Perry albums". Perry only had two solo albums and some compliations. They are Journey albums with Steve Perry singing.

But again, I want to point out that I was wanting to discuss a legitimate topic and the two trolls, Gr8t and moniker, decide to use it as yet another opportunity to show their true colors. Thanks guys.

Oh, my true color is to correct your ignorance when it comes to Journey. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about most of the time, but you try to express your words in a way that shows that you do.

If you want to talk about GI and the vocal production, go ahead. I'm not stopping you. Are you going to whine and play the victim some more?

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

You know damn well what I meant. You're just being a jerk.

[Toph]

But, if you are going to show off your ignorance of Journey, then I'm going to correct you. Get used to it.

Spoken like a true pompous, self important ass.

Absolutely.

But, not a 'troll'.

How about asshole, then?

[Baron Von Bielski]

Another highly informative thread.

[masque]

hey toph, another example of a band that used the doubling of vocals a lot was KISS.......and when I say doubling, i am not referring to the chorus's of songs that usually had gang vocals sung over and over along with tons of harmony etc.....


but rather the verses of songs are usually where it is the easiest to pick up on it......if you are a KISS fan at all then check out some of their stuff like "I Want You" and most of the rock and roll over album.

other highly audible examples would be things like the beginning of "hot blooded" when lou comes in and says "well, I'm hot blooded" and places like that.

it's a great technique to use in up tempo songs where the vocal is sung with some authority........but you won't really hear things like that during the verses of a song like "crystal ball" or "come sail away". in fact CSA is a great example of how using the double tracking can really thicken the vocal at the perfect time. the verses are single tracked maintaining the intimacy that they needed and then when the last verses are sung during the rocking sections the "I thought that they were angels" part, is all double tracked and could even have more than that on there......but it makes it sound great.

[Boomchild]

hey toph, another example of a band that used the doubling of vocals a lot was KISS.......and when I say doubling, i am not referring to the chorus's of songs that usually had gang vocals sung over and over along with tons of harmony etc.....


but rather the verses of songs are usually where it is the easiest to pick up on it......if you are a KISS fan at all then check out some of their stuff like "I Want You" and most of the rock and roll over album.

other highly audible examples would be things like the beginning of "hot blooded" when lou comes in and says "well, I'm hot blooded" and places like that.

it's a great technique to use in up tempo songs where the vocal is sung with some authority........but you won't really hear things like that during the verses of a song like "crystal ball" or "come sail away". in fact CSA is a great example of how using the double tracking can really thicken the vocal at the perfect time. the verses are single tracked maintaining the intimacy that they needed and then when the last verses are sung during the rocking sections the "I thought that they were angels" part, is all double tracked and could even have more than that on there......but it makes it sound great.

Didn't Boston do a lot of this too?

[Abitaman]

Yes Boston did.

[Baron Von Bielski]

toph, yes, the vocals were most certainly double tracked in spots on the record. that was and still is a very common practice to give the vocal production a fuller sound.

many people think double tracking vocals is easy and it actually can be very time consuming and exhausting to do it correctly.....of course, the better the singer, the easier it will be for them to do, but it still is a task.

Well put.

It's cool when they break it down for you on the mixing board. A lot of times they just double the lead vocal track and during chorus parts have the lead singer even add a harmony vocal among other members recording their background vocals. It's an art, making and recording music. Especially in the 70's. Now any yahoo can do it with a laptop.

[Boomchild]

Now any yahoo can do it with a laptop.

Which is part of the problem with music being put out today.