New Rolling Stone Interview

[danielb]

What do you think "he's getting too out of tune for auto tune means " means?

Is this coming from their sound engineer?

In the clips I provided, Arnel is so off key at times that the software can't adjust automatically to the desired note.

Kindly post links to these clips. I am curious to see what you are talking about.

[Journey/Survivor]

You have made up your mind, and you're gonna stick with it, just the same way as you are saying that people are doing the other way around. There are a couple of people who post in this forum that I don't know why they even bother? Seeing as it seems to be their mission to shit all over Journey. It gets really fucking old after a while! But, I suppose that I just answered my own question about why they still post on here? It appears to be so they can shit all over the band.

Fil uses facts and analysis. You're going personal and emotional because of the opposite - you don't have any.

I'm not sure how "my mind is made up" when I just said how the band recently stopped using autotune at Arnel's personal request. Why would I say that If I was pushing an agenda? My only objective is the truth. We had types like you during the 2005 lipping scandal accusing fans of all sorts of pernicious motives.

As for those who allegedly "shit all over Journey".... did you actually read the RS article? The band is doing a fine job of that themselves. Arnel, in particular, sounds like he's in a waking nightmare.

The majority of posters in this forum are very respectful - ESPECIALLY in comparison to the days of Perryloons vs. Wigglers, Tapegate, etc. But if you have a problem, you could certainly always run to the moderator.

I apologize for being a little too strong in some of the wording that I used. I was having a bad day! But I'm just annoyed in general at how certain people on this forum act like it's their mission in life to put the band down. Someone thinks that the band may be doing something, so they run to Fil, or whoever else to expose it. If "it" is even true or not?

[The_Noble_Cause]

I apologize for being a little too strong in some of the wording that I used. I was having a bad day! But I'm just annoyed in general at how certain people on this forum act like it's their mission in life to put the band down. Someone thinks that the band may be doing something, so they run to Fil, or whoever else to expose it. If "it" is even true or not?

That's fair. We are all fans here. Let's cool it.

[Gideon]

Neal addresses the article’s revelations and substance via Facebook statement:

Over the years, Journey has always been about the music and the fans first.

There’s been some recent press and speculation that doesn’t reflect the full picture. Touring at this level involves many moving parts, and decisions are made collectively with our team, including management, agents, and promoters.

Like any long-running band, there are moments where people feel the pressure differently. I respect that, and I have nothing but appreciation for what everyone brings to the stage.

For clarity, no one was ever prevented by me from making their own personal decisions. At the same time, we were all advised by our representatives that there are contractual obligations tied to touring that need to be honored.

My focus has always been — and remains — delivering the best possible experience for our fans and keeping the music alive.

— Neal Schon

[Onestepper]

Arnel's latest FB post definitely makes it appear he's going through it.

[danielb]

Arnel's latest FB post definitely makes it appear he's going through it.

He's signed a contract for the tour...

[Onestepper]

Arnel's latest FB post definitely makes it appear he's going through it.

He's signed a contract for the tour...

Not sure anyone is saying he didn't.

[Monker]

You ask why he is off pitch here and there and refuse to accept the answer. Then you post what reads like some AI generated thing when you asked it how it works, or something straight from a manual.

I have a couple things to add to what TNC said. First, Fil explained, and showed examples, where autotune can be set to sometimes be slightly sharp or flat at times. That alone should give you a hint that that autotune is more sophisticated and has settings beyond what you posted.

If you look into it a page deeper you will find that it can be set to only tune in a specific range. Way back when he fixed all his issues with a new ear monitor I said that he now sometimes sounds like crap with his midrange but his high range sounds perfect. That makes no sense to me. Autotune can be programed to ONLY tune his higher range and allow his midrange to be his real voice....completely unable to hold a note or be in key. Then you set it to sometimes tune to be slightly sharp or flat to make it sound more like a real voice and 'hide' the autotune use.

Finally, TNC is correct. Autotune jumps to the closest note. So, if he is WAY off and it just grabs the closest note and that could be the wrong note.

IMO, autotune has been used from the time of his magic ear monitor. They made it selective and tried to hide its use. Then they screwed up by leaving it on during the talking. And, I don't blame Arnel...It's the "band" (Neal) telling the sound guy whether to use it or not. Arnel may not even know when it is on. Same with things like the end of Separate Ways, which always sounds the same. I think they turn down Arnel's vocal and use prerecorded voices. Again, Arnel may not even know.

Also, I find it pretty convenient that playing a halftime show to prerecorded music is given a pass when it was argued to the point of insult that Augeri should have the integrity to refuse to perform with prerecorded vocals. NEAL SCHON performed to prerecorded guitar during that performance - and nobody here even cares. Nobody is saying he should have refused the idea. So hypocritical.

IMO, the bottom line is "Journey" has no where near the integrity that some people here think it does. It has even less now then then when Augeri was with them, IMO.

So far, I haven't seen anything to support they're using autotune on this tour. If they had been, why would Arnel continuously be off pitch here and there?

This was already addressed - "autotune tunes chromatically so if Arnel is closer to the note a 1/2 step below it will auto tune him down to incorrect note rather than up to correct one."

As I wrote previously, why would they use Autotune configured with a setting that adjusts Arnel's vocal to hit the wrong notes? The whole purpose of Autotune is to make a singer sound good. I trust Journey can afford sound engineers that know how to work Autotune.

When Auto-Tune is set to "Chromatic," it is instructed to treat all 12 semitones in an octave (every white and black key on a piano) as potential, valid target notes.

How it works: Auto-Tune calculates the pitch of the incoming vocal in real-time and snaps it to the mathematically closest note in the 12-tone scale.
The Problem: If the intended note is D (a whole step up) but the singer (Arnel) is flat, falling 1/2 step below and closer to C#, Chromatic Mode will "correct" the voice down to the C# rather than up to the D.
The Result: The, singer sounds perfectly in tune, but on the wrong note, which can create a jarring or "wrong" harmony depending on the melody.

How to Fix This
If you are having this issue, here are the standard ways to solve it:
Switch from Chromatic to Scale Mode: Instead of Chromatic, select the specific key (e.g., D Major) and scale (e.g., Major) of the song. This restricts the notes the software can pull to, ensuring it only chooses notes within that key.
Remove Notes (Custom Scale): In the software's advanced view, you can manually "remove" the wrong note from the scale (e.g., remove C#). If C# is removed, Auto-Tune will be forced to skip it and jump to the next closest note, which would be D.

[danielb]

I am still waiting for any evidence to be posted. Fil covered Sacramento + the halftime show (prerecorded), not the current tour, afaik.

[kmjrr]

Singers can have problems in the mid-range while their lower and higher registers are fine.

Also, saying that Arnel singing off key can still be auto tune suggests that all the current pop singers using auto tune and sounding perfect are in fact very close to the actual notes. Auto tune is much more capable.
Yes, this is an AI answer:
"Auto-Tune can be programmed with the specific notes, scale, and key of an actual song to ensure a vocal performance perfectly matches the musical backing. This process, often called Targeted Tuning or MIDI-Controlled Pitch Correction, involves feeding the musical notes of the melody into the Auto-Tune plugin, allowing it to know exactly which note the singer should be hitting."

[Monker]

Singers can have problems in the mid-range while their lower and higher registers are fine.

Also, saying that Arnel singing off key can still be auto tune suggests that all the current pop singers using auto tune and sounding perfect are in fact very close to the actual notes. Auto tune is much more capable.
Yes, this is an AI answer:
"Auto-Tune can be programmed with the specific notes, scale, and key of an actual song to ensure a vocal performance perfectly matches the musical backing. This process, often called Targeted Tuning or MIDI-Controlled Pitch Correction, involves feeding the musical notes of the melody into the Auto-Tune plugin, allowing it to know exactly which note the singer should be hitting."

The question was asked if autotune is being used why is Arnel off and on pitch so often. I answered it with a bunch of reasons why that can happen...among them was the fact that autotune can be directed at a certain range of frequencies and ignore others. Meaning, his real voice could be ignored in the mid-range and tuned in his high range. That allows him to be off pitch for most of a song. Or, it can be programmed to tune the note to be slightly flat or sharp to make it sound more real and hid its use.

I have no clue what your point is here. Saying autotune is more capable is actually agreeing with what I am arguing. That there are abilities then just telling it to tune a voice.

[Monker]

I am still waiting for any evidence to be posted. Fil covered Sacramento + the halftime show (prerecorded), not the current tour, afaik.

Absence of evidence is not evidence that something is not true.

If you can't see how they used autotune and prerecorded music (including Neal's guitar) has been used in the recent past opens up the very real possibility that it is being used RIGHT NOW then you are blinding yourself to reality.

IMO, if something happens and a suspected concert gets sent to Fil and he says it is all autotune and prerecorded vocals and maybe even instruments, I will not be surprised at all. It seems you will be completely shocked. The integrity and trustworthiness of this band (Neal) is very, very low.

[danielb]

If you can't see how they used autotune and prerecorded music (including Neal's guitar) has been used in the recent past opens up the very real possibility that it is being used RIGHT NOW then you are blinding yourself to reality.

I'm glad you're using that word. Possibility. Ie, just speculation until proven otherwise. Get Fil to review footage from the current tour. I'm happy to be proven wrong

IMO, if something happens and a suspected concert gets sent to Fil and he says it is all autotune and prerecorded vocals and maybe even instruments, I will not be surprised at all. It seems you will be completely shocked. The integrity and trustworthiness of this band (Neal) is very, very low.

Televised performances are usually not live, so I don't see why that's a big deal in the first place. Neal's still at the top of his game, no need for any assistance.

[FishinMagician]

This is the arguing I remember from the good old days. Arguing over autotune. Just be careful. You all are almost 20 years older, you don’t want to end up with a heart attack from getting angry like that one dude

[kmjrr]

Way back when he fixed all his issues with a new ear monitor I said that he now sometimes sounds like crap with his midrange but his high range sounds perfect. That makes no sense to me.

Why does that make no sense to you? When a singer has vocal issues, problems don't always start at one frequency and continue all the way to the top of their range? You can have issues anywhere in your range. Using Arnel's mid range problems as proof that they are using auto tune - He sounds like crap in the mid range so they must be selectively using auto tune to fool us - is crazy.

Finally, TNC is correct. Autotune jumps to the closest note. So, if he is WAY off and it just grabs the closest note and that could be the wrong note.

Not necessarily.

If you can't see how they used autotune and prerecorded music (including Neal's guitar) has been used in the recent past opens up the very real possibility that it is being used RIGHT NOW then you are blinding yourself to reality.

Neal playing to pre-recorded guitar is proof that the network or the NFL forced the issue. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is being done at the Journey concerts.

Again, as I said before, the show where auto tune was left on while they were talking proves they use it. But in current performances when Arnel is off tune, they are not using it.

[Monker]

If you can't see how they used autotune and prerecorded music (including Neal's guitar) has been used in the recent past opens up the very real possibility that it is being used RIGHT NOW then you are blinding yourself to reality.

I'm glad you're using that word. Possibility. Ie, just speculation until proven otherwise. Get Fil to review footage from the current tour. I'm happy to be proven wrong

Why would I bug Fil about it? I've tuned out from this band for years. They have gone completely off kilter. I turned in the one video because it was a WTF moment that I stumbled on. But, in a real sense, nothing about this current band feels like Journey to me. Journey in 2002 was much more in line with what Journey means to me then this never ending drama machine led by Neal Schon.

Fil will review footage when a bunch of people hear a suspected autotune and send it to him....just like the half time show.

IMO, if something happens and a suspected concert gets sent to Fil and he says it is all autotune and prerecorded vocals and maybe even instruments, I will not be surprised at all. It seems you will be completely shocked. The integrity and trustworthiness of this band (Neal) is very, very low.

Televised performances are usually not live, so I don't see why that's a big deal in the first place. Neal's still at the top of his game, no need for any assistance.

I don't care. It's hypocritical for people to have lectured and insult Augeri but when THE ENTIRE BAND is PROVEN to be playing to a pre recorded performance Milli-Vanilli style and they give them a pass. If Prince could perform live at the Superbowl, then a band like Journey should be able to insist on performing live at a peon playoff game. The "everybody does it" is bullshit and hypocritical. If Neal is still at the top of his game, he would not have to pretend to play while a pre recorded guitar is playing. Amatuer hour. If he is so good then he would feel insulted to have to do such a thing. And, since he leads and controls the entire band, he is insulting the professionalism of the rest of the band by forcing them to do it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Again, as I said before, the show where auto tune was left on while they were talking proves they use it. But in current performances when Arnel is off tune, they are not using it.

I'm sure we could find plenty of off-tune moments In the show where it was left on while they were talking. That doesn't prove anything. Autotune doesn't create a 100% flawless performance.

I think I've been pretty clear about Arnel asking the band to stop with the autotune. They are now detuning half a step instead. However, at the outset of this tour, autotune was being used. The optimus prime robot distortion sound is all over this clip of Faithfully, for example. It is what it is.

https://youtu.be/4RvYdLYdAro?si=aZdoKSlcK_hyan35&t=2949

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is the arguing I remember from the good old days. Arguing over autotune. Just be careful. You all are almost 20 years older, you don’t want to end up with a heart attack from getting angry like that one dude

Good memory.

I think his name was Craig (?) and he was a valiant warrior for the argument that his beloved band was NOT engaging in lipping.

Sometimes I wonder if he had an epiphany - regarding the true extent of the fraud taking place - and it took him out. I know I sat stunned when I first realized it myself.

RIP

[Monker]

Way back when he fixed all his issues with a new ear monitor I said that he now sometimes sounds like crap with his midrange but his high range sounds perfect. That makes no sense to me.

Why does that make no sense to you?

Because he was having issues with the entirety of his range and then he gets a magical ear piece and it only fixes his high range. So, yes, it makes sense to me that he has been using autotune for years to fix his higher range vocal.

Using Arnel's mid range problems as proof that they are using auto tune

Quote where I said that. I answered your question about why he is on and off pitch so much. That is ONE possibility among a few that I mention. It is very possible to be using autotune but still be off and on pitch.

He sounds like crap in the mid range so they must be selectively using auto tune to fool us - is crazy.

No, it's very possible...especially with a band that went through what they did with Augeri. IMO, they have used autotune in a very limited way for years.

Finally, TNC is correct. Autotune jumps to the closest note. So, if he is WAY off and it just grabs the closest note and that could be the wrong note.

Not necessarily.

Again, you asked a question and I answered it with examples. Sorry that you do not like the fact that going in and out of pitch is VERY possible while using autotune. No amount of deflection and denial on your part can change that FACT.

If you can't see how they used autotune and prerecorded music (including Neal's guitar) has been used in the recent past opens up the very real possibility that it is being used RIGHT NOW then you are blinding yourself to reality.

Neal playing to pre-recorded guitar is proof that the network or the NFL forced the issue. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is being done at the Journey concerts.

Like I quoted, you are blinding yourself to reality. If Neal had the same musical integrity that this forum DEMANDED from Augeri, he would have never agreed to perform to prerecorded music. It is PROOF that Neal can allow himself and the band to fall to insulting levels just to get a paycheck. So, yes, it also means he would do the same thing if it means selling more tickets on the tour.

Again, as I said before, the show where auto tune was left on while they were talking proves they use it. But in current performances when Arnel is off tune, they are not using it.

You do NOT know if the shows where you believe Arnel is off tune were not using Autotune. They can program autotune to ignore the range you think he is off, autotune can be snapping to a wrong note, autotune could be intentionally snapping to a sharp or flat...which Fil PROVED they did in the same video you mention above.

You do NOT know whether Arnel is being autotuned or not. Why don't YOU ask Fil to pick out a few shows and review them to prove YOU are correct.

[Monker]

Again, as I said before, the show where auto tune was left on while they were talking proves they use it. But in current performances when Arnel is off tune, they are not using it.

I'm sure we could find plenty of off-tune moments In the show where it was left on while they were talking. That doesn't prove anything. Autotune doesn't create a 100% flawless performance.

I think I've been pretty clear about Arnel asking the band to stop with the autotune. They are now detuning half a step instead. However, at the outset of this tour, autotune was being used. The optimus prime robot distortion sound is all over this clip of Faithfully, for example. It is what it is.

https://youtu.be/4RvYdLYdAro?si=aZdoKSlcK_hyan35&t=2949

Yes, this Autotune and hard to listen to. When he sings, "On my mind..." it jumps so much that I stopped listening. Wow.,

[Monker]

This is the arguing I remember from the good old days. Arguing over autotune. Just be careful. You all are almost 20 years older, you don’t want to end up with a heart attack from getting angry like that one dude

Good memory.

I think his name was Craig (?) and he was a valiant warrior for the argument that his beloved band was NOT engaging in lipping.

Sometimes I wonder if he had an epiphany - regarding the true extent of the fraud taking place - and it took him out. I know I sat stunned when I first realized it myself.

RIP

I thought it was Rich from BT.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is the arguing I remember from the good old days. Arguing over autotune. Just be careful. You all are almost 20 years older, you don’t want to end up with a heart attack from getting angry like that one dude

Good memory.

I think his name was Craig (?) and he was a valiant warrior for the argument that his beloved band was NOT engaging in lipping.

Sometimes I wonder if he had an epiphany - regarding the true extent of the fraud taking place - and it took him out. I know I sat stunned when I first realized it myself.

RIP

I thought it was Rich from BT.

He definitely posted on BT. You could be right. Wasn't he a photographer? I didn't think it was Rich. Either way, RIP.