25 years

[styxfanNH]

What bands have remained completely intact with their members for 25 years or more and therfore are not "deceiving" their fans?

[swwskj]

You obviously feel very strongly about this topic as you created consecutive threads stating exactly the same thing.

By the way, if you can't tell a difference between the band that is currently being called "styx" and the band that made it possible for them to continue to tour, I don't know what to say.

If you accept this "best line-up ever" it doesn't bother me. I hope when you go see them live you have a great time. It's just not for me (and quite a few others here). Just because you don't see a problem, doesn't diminish the opinions of those who do.

Scott

[styxfanNH]

actually i think these 2 posts are really different, although they may make the sam point in some way. I just think that sometimes we discuss points that get burried in other posts depending how they turn - sort of like this one now - after only one reply. To me your reply should have been in the other thread to keep them on topic.

I will give you one group that pertains to this thread:

Rush

[LordofDaRing]

The cop out on this argument is which exact members left from the original line up. Mick Jagger and Keith Richard never left the stones, Lou Graham and Mick Jones did not leave Foreigner, if Jimmy Page and Rober Plant are together on stage (nothing against JPJ, I think he got shafted by the other two), people think Zepplin. Before his death, John Lennon and Paul McCartney could have gotten together with two other guys and probably convinced people that they were actually seeing a Beatles reunion. Fleetwood Mac was succesful in the line up changes because the core of the group (John and Mic) were never the singer/songwriters/front men, and Buckingham/Nicks blew the other guys away. Following this argment, Tommy and Dennis probalby could convince a lot of people with three other guys that they were STYX. Tommy and JY don't pull it off (IMO)

[ek88]

Lord, I'll have to agree with you here. It depends on how influential the member is on the group. Should Def Leppard have changed their name when Pete Willis got the boot? It might've been the decent thing to do, in order not to deceive their fans, but it probably would've resulted in a lot of confusion as well.

Each situation is unique. Van Halen pulled off a lead singer switch with Sammy, and I think that went pretty well, in retrospect. However, years later they tried the same thing with Gary Cherone and it didn't fly. Same band, different results. Had Eddie left instead of David Lee Roth, do you think they would've gone on to the same success as they did with the switch at lead singer? I don't think so. Again, I think you're absolutely right when you say it depends on who the member is.

I daresay that there would not be nearly the controversy swirling among hard core Styx fans if Chuck Panozzo would've been the one kicked out, or even JY, for that matter. Just my two cents.

[swwskj]

Well if you want to nitpick, the current Rush line-up has been in tact for 25 years (longer actually), but Neil Peart didn't come along until the second album. Like I said it was nitpicking.

As far as foreigner is concerned, Lou Gramm was solo when they released the Unusual Heat album in 1991 with Johnny Edwards. They have not had an intact line-up for back to back albums since Agent Provacateur and Inside Information. Not to mention that they started off as a six piece.

When you think about it, (NH you were right here) it is VERY hard to keep a band together that long without lineup changes. I think where deception occurs is when a signature member(s) is missing and the band or management tries to market it as the same old band. When Phil Collins left Genesis, would it be morally wrong to use his vocals on a radio promo for an upcoming show?

That is what happened during the 1999 styx tour in Charlotte. They used Dennis vocals in radio promos and his image in newspaper articles. I will concede that the band may not have been behind that and they have since removed him from promos. But the average fan who doesn't keep up with the comings and goings of personel may feel cheated or may not even notice the change.

I guess in the end deception is in the eye of the decieved.

Scott

[piecesofeight]

I totally agree that it depends on WHO it is that isn't there anymore, PLUS the reason why-did they leave or were they kicked out.
I'm a huge Sammy Hagar fan, plus the guy is so talented, so I was thrilled about this one. BUT, no Eddie, it would not be the same.
Journey. Steve A. can not only sing, but my heart wasn't into Journey as much as Styx, so it doesn't effect me the same. I miss Steve Perry a lot, but being that Steve A. can sing, and sound so much like him, this helps a lot. Plus, I didn't care as much. AND the reasons that Steve aren't around are different than Dennis'.
I believe what's been so hard for many with Styx is the circumstances under which Dennis is not in Styx anymore and who they replaced him with. It really boils down to that.
Hell, I hated it when Tommy wasn't in Styx. It was not Styx.
Not that it will happen, BUT if Tommy wasn't in Styx anymore. Let's say it was just JY, I wonder how many would still follow and think of it as Styx.
Axel cracked me up when he still called it GNR'S when he was the only original member.
I'm still very happy with Van Halen, Boston, Def Leppard and Bad Company. Foreigner will not be Foreigner without Lou Gramm, but at least I know that it's Lou's choice. That does help.
For some it's just about the music and that's great for them. Sometimes I wish I could do that, but it too for me has to be about integrity and morals.
I don't know, it's just gets weird sometimes though when you go see a group and there's only one original member left.

[LordofDaRing]

The worst case of this kind of deception is the Beach Boys. How Mike Love has the audacity to go through that facad is beyond me. Apparently Brian Wilson does not have a problem with it, but I think the fans don't buy it. The eagles fired Don Felder right before their tour last year. Joe Walsh and Tim Schmidt are not original members. But when you are Don Henley and Glen Frey, you can still get away with it. If one of those two quit, I wonder if they would still call themselves the eagles?

[piecesofeight]

The worst case of this kind of deception is the Beach Boys. How Mike Love has the audacity to go through that facad is beyond me. Apparently Brian Wilson does not have a problem with it, but I think the fans don't buy it. The eagles fired Don Felder right before their tour last year. Joe Walsh and Tim Schmidt are not original members. But when you are Don Henley and Glen Frey, you can still get away with it. If one of those two quit, I wonder if they would still call themselves the eagles?

Or to add to this too, if one of them were to leave, would the fans think of them as the Eagles anymore.

A lot of this too depends on when 'one' found the band. That tends to be who the lineup is to each one also. Who was in the group at the time that you found them a lot of times is the 'original' lineup.
I didn't miss John C. because I basically found Styx after he was gone and Tommy had joined. That is why to me, that is what Styx is.

[BourgeoisPig69]

How in the world can someone use the word "deceiving" when talking about member moves in a band?
When the Yankees signed Gary Sheffield did that mean the Atlanta Braves were deceiving their fans by trading for JD Drew instead? Or, when the Philadelphia Eagles let Duce Staley sign with Pittsburgh were they deceiving their fans?
New players, new singers-what's the difference? There will always be changes (unless you're ZZ Top), and I think that's what makes things interesting. It's how wise those changes are. Let's not forget that Eddie Van Halen wanted Patty Smyth not Sammy Hagar as his main choice for Van Halen back in 1985! (I wish he had meade that choice but it would've been career suicide). Personally, I think Van Hagar suck and have no balls, but Sammy is a talent and I respect that. DLR IS Van Halen's singer but he's a no-talent has been now and his voice (and hair) are shot.
The group actually sounded great live with Cherrone but the album was hideous.
I love how people use deceiving like they're some sort of Ralph Nader of the music world keeping us from making bad choices. Styx are NOT deceiving anyone. Styx are the 5 personalities now in that band. What should they do, get Tom Nardini back? I mean, please! If they were touring as Styx Featuring The Songs Of DDY, then you'd have a point, but otherwise, forget it. Styx is these 5 gentlemen whether you like them or not.

[classicstyxfan]

Pig,

Good points, except in your analogy if the Braves were still selling tickets by showing commericals full of Gary Sheffield highlights while in a Braves uniform, and you came to the game expecting him to be in the lineup and he wasnt, there's alot of potential for you as a fan of Gary Sheffield and the Braves to feel like you got less than your money's worth.......

You might be inclined to call a person in this situation ignorant or stupid for not paying attention to who is on the team, but there are alot of casual fans of both Baseball, and Rock and Roll out there....

Just another perspective to consider........

[ek88]

New players, new singers-what's the difference?

Well, for one, I think the time frame has a bit to do with it. For example, I would presume that 50 years from now (barring natural disaster or the end of the world) that the majority of Major League teams will still be in existence, just like they were around prior to the birth of modern day players. The same can hardly be said for a musical act. Secondly, I don't think musicians as a rule hold out for money, or sign with other bands in the same sense that athletes do. I haven't seen any trade offers for Tommy or JY from other bands lately, either. And Dennis has yet to be claimed off waivers.

All of these things are expected when one becomes a fan of a baseball team. I don't know that I ever got interested in a band with the thought in mind that it was inevitable that one or more members would some day no longer be able to perform with their fellow band members (while they were all still physically able).

So while I see where you're coming from, I think there are enough differences to make it a poor analogy (no offense).

[BourgeoisPig69]

Perhaps because sports has denegrated due to the advent of free agency it might not have been the best analogy-but it is a decent one. The loyalty is to the dollar not the fan-same as music.
As for bands, I've never been into a band thinking things would stay the same, only because when money and creative differences are involved, as well as so many personalities, it's very tough to keep 4, 5 or 6 guys together.
I was in a band for 6 years (not that we compare to Styx), but we would argue all the time about songs or lyrics or whatever. It's just hard for everyone to be happy. And, if someone is one of the main writers, they get the most attention, accolades, interviews, etc. and their ego inflates.
Look at Peter Cetera. What a geek. His solo stuff makes Michael Bolton look like Danzig and after a few hits he couldn't even get arrested until he remade Chicago songs with boy band a capella groups like Az Yet. Yuk.
Chicago said Cetera was always the focal point of the videos and thus people assumed he was the main writer/singer which of course wasn't true. He became impossible to deal withm thus his exodus. He predicted Chicago would sink without him, but with Jason Scheff the hits kept coming.
Pink Floyd had a similar problem with Roger Waters. I love Floyd and I feel that the 2 albums post-Waters were great especially "The Division Bell".
With Styx, I feel "Brave New World" was the equivalent of 34 cats being neutered all at once in the studio. Just an awful album. "Cyclorama", while patchy, is way better. I'd like DDY back with the group, but I'm content with the band as they are (plus Todd is an inhuman drummer) and to me the 5 guys in Styx are Styx!

[classicstyxfan]

Pig said....

"Brave New World" was the equivalent of 34 cats being neutered all at once in the studio."

Bullseye ! Thanks for the laugh..... ( and I think the temperature in hell hit 32 at the exact moment I praised the Pig ! )

[ek88]

With Styx, I feel "Brave New World" was the equivalent of 34 cats being neutered all at once in the studio.

[jimmy19029]

The Four Tops are about the only ones I can think of that had the same four guys.......for 41 years! Then Lawrence Payton died in 1997.
Just about eveyone else I can think of has gone through changes of people at one time or another.

[ek88]

Is Aerosmith currently made up of original members? I don't know much about them, but I thought I remember hearing that somewhere. I have no idea whether it's been the same five all this time! Help!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Good Thread. I was trying to think of bands that have been together for more than 25 years.

It looks like Aerosmith has been together since the beginning with the first album.

Isn't the members of Bon Jovi all original members that have been together?

Rush is celebrating 30 years together. I know it's not the "original" band, but this Rush line-up is THE best Rush line-up to me.

I can't believe you're talking about Gary Sheffield - UGH. He was such an A$$ when he was here in Milwaukee.

Baseball and music are 2 different worlds, just my opinion.

Ek88 says:

I daresay that there would not be nearly the controversy swirling among hard core Styx fans if Chuck Panozzo would've been the one kicked out, or even JY, for that matter. Just my two cents.

I totally agree with Ek on this one. I sure wouldn't be all "fired-up" on this board if JY was kicked out of Styx. I'm sure most of you know that already - LOL

[Ash]

Isn't the members of Bon Jovi all original members that have been together?

Nope... they booted their bass player a few years back..... big loss can't ya tell?

I daresay that there would not be nearly the controversy swirling among hard core Styx fans if Chuck Panozzo would've been the one kicked out, or even JY, for that matter. Just my two cents.

JY hasn't written a decent song since Eddie. He should sit down and shut up. He's not a single song credit for a song done by himself on any Styx record. For a guy with limited contributions to the writing, he sure does have opinions about the song writers that fed his fat butt all this time. I SO could go for another chorus of "Out on a Day Pass" couldn't you? Yeah... I put that one on repeat.

[Ash]

Isn't the members of Bon Jovi all original members that have been together?

Nope... they booted their bass player a few years back..... big loss can't ya tell?

I daresay that there would not be nearly the controversy swirling among hard core Styx fans if Chuck Panozzo would've been the one kicked out, or even JY, for that matter. Just my two cents.

JY hasn't written a decent song since Eddie and Half Penny Two Penny. He should sit down and shut up. He's not a single song credit for a song done by himself on any Styx record. For a guy with limited contributions to the writing, he sure does have opinions about the song writers that fed his fat butt all this time. I SO could go for another chorus of "Out on a Day Pass" couldn't you? Yeah... I put that one on repeat.

[BourgeoisPig69]

"It looks like Aerosmith has been together since the beginning with the first album."

Nope. Joe Perry quit in 1979 and was replaced by Joey Crespo, then Brad Whitford left in 1980 and was replaced by Rick Dufay. This lineup made the kick-ass underappreciated album "Rock And A Hard Place" in 1982 and toured in '82-'83. Interest was waning in the band, though the album still went Top 40 gold. The tour was poorly attended and drugs were running high (just look how wasted everyone looks in the "Lightning Strikes" video).
The original lineup reunited for the "Back In The Saddle" tour of 1984 and have been together making crap ever since. They also added a keyboardist in the late 80s who was there for at least up through the late 90s. I forget his name but he was treated as a sideman.
Aerosmith used to kick ass, but they sold their souls to MTV and cheesy songwriters. Yuk. "Love In An Elevator" my white ass.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Pig, Thanks for explaining about Aerosmith. I didn't have time to find all the details. I had no idea about the other members of Aerosmith.

Ash, I didn't know about Bon Jovi either, thanks.

I guess there isn't that many bands that completely stayed together for more than 30 years.

BTW, nice picture, NOT!! LOL I'm afraid to see the next picture you're going to put up - just kidding

[styxfanNH]

Doesn't ZZ Top have the original members?

These Are The Times and Captain America on Cyclorama are good JY songs. Because they agreed to equally share in the writing credits, you won't see them take full credit for any of the songs. So the non sharing of songwriting credit isn't necessarily a good moniker.

[jimmy19029]

[quote="BourgeoisPig69"]"It looks like Aerosmith has been together since the beginning with the first album."

Nope. Joe Perry quit in 1979 and was replaced by Joey Crespo, then Brad Whitford left in 1980 and was replaced by Rick Dufay. This lineup made the kick-ass underappreciated album "Rock And A Hard Place" in 1982 and toured in '82-'83. Interest was waning in the band, though the album still went Top 40 gold. The tour was poorly attended and drugs were running high (just look how wasted everyone looks in the "Lightning Strikes" video).
The original lineup reunited for the "Back In The Saddle" tour of 1984

That's right. And they also had a guitarist named Ray Tabano who was with them from the Fall of 1970 to the Summer of 1971. But Brad Whitford replaced him before any recordings were made.

[jimmy19029]

[quote="styxfanNH"]Doesn't ZZ Top have the original members?


If you're talking from the first album on, yes. But there were two other guys with Billy Gibbons on their first single Salt Lick in 1969. They were Lanier Grieg(keyboards, bass pedals) and Dan Mitchell(drums) Grieg was pretty much fired when he left to audition for an acting job in NYC. He was replaced by Billy Etheridge(bass). Then Etheridge suggested his other Dallas buddy Frank Beard for drums. Etheridge then had a falling out with manager Bill Ham and was replaced by Dusty Hill. Since early 1970 it's been Gibbons, Hill and Beard.

[gr8dane]

That's funny Jimmy.
I was surfing old posts too,just to find when the last time was froy said,;
this is it for Styx,I'll give them 2 more months.
But looking back 24 pages I could not find it.So with Styx shows still going strong,froy is still off.But he may be right one day.
Yes I know .I could be doing something better with my time.

[styxfanNH]

It must be the beginning of the end for Styx. They will play 25% less shows this year than last year....

[gr8dane]

It must be the beginning of the end for Styx. They will play 25% less shows this year than last year....

[shaka]

Doesn't ZZ Top have the original members?

These Are The Times and Captain America on Cyclorama are good JY songs. Because they agreed to equally share in the writing credits, you won't see them take full credit for any of the songs. So the non sharing of songwriting credit isn't necessarily a good moniker.

I'm gonna agree here. Both of these songs are great and among Cyclorama's best.

JY's contribution is an interesting subject to debate. Back when Styx went on the post Kilroy hiatus there were three solo albums released. I liked all three but I thought JY's City Slicker sounded the most like Styx. Granted, it was the harder side of Styx but I think it was the closest. JY also took an interesting musical detour by working with Jan Hammer.

Eric