Bugsy & Froy

by **DarrenUK** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:08 pm

I need to ask a question....especially to you Froy.

Why do you always post the same frigging garbage everytime you post.
You must see a subject with the word Styx in it and automatically think I have to slate it.
You have played the same anti Gowan record for the past 4 years and its got very boring. I would like Dennis to be in Styx not because i dislike Gowan but because I love Dennis as a singer and performer and he and Tommy were always my idols.
Its obvious to everyone your not happy that Dennis is not in Styx but do you have to post the same anti Gowan speech with every post. I mean look at the post Styx to play the UK and here comes Froy with his anti Gowan crap, but alas the Styx fans in the UK know that the reason the band never toured outside North America (DDY) has gone and we are looking forward to seeing them for the first time since 1981. I am not anti Dennis as i have just spent money to go to Florida in December to see him I am PRO Dennis and PRO Styx and cant wait to see both. I seen Styx in 1981 Paradise tour and I seen them in 2000 twice in Germany also i paid hard earned cash to see them in Pittsburgh last June and they were great on every occasion. No matter who replaced Dennis you would of dissed them anyway i just think its got really boring and most of the styx fans in the UK dont come on this message board because people like you have turned it into an anti Styx board so we dont bother....I was bitter and upset when i heard Dennis had gone but i learned to accept it and give Gowan a chance and no he does not have Dennis,s vocal ability(Who does?) but he is a great showman and a band MEMBER and not someone who dictates the bands every musical direction and where they tour. I interviewed a member of Styx.s production team in 1997 for a magazine and do you know what Dennis had inserted in a contract?...that every show must open and close with 1 of his songs aint that petty from a so called hero ? Lawrence Gowan came into Styx in a difficult situation and i applaud him for that, it shown guts to get onstage and perform knowing he is replacing a musical genious , no he isnt perfect but neither is Dennis but at least he deserves more than to be slated on every single darn post. I have emailed the owner of this site to ask him if we can have a GOWAN message board just for you.

Merry Christmas to you and a Happy New Year
Ime flying out to Florida in 4 hours so i need to get ready

by **sadie65** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:00 pm

Enjoy the show. Just one question...what did any of what you posted have to do with Bugsy?

Sadie

by **Ash** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:05 am

With all due respect, lets keep the topic about Styx and not the personalities on the board. I know you're new (at least new to this forum as I've not seen you post before), but you kinda need to get to know some of the personalities before making judgements.

And people make mistakes. We're all human. We should learn to live and let live despite our disagreements.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:22 am

I was wondering the same thing, what about Bugsy?

DarrenUK says:

I was bitter and upset when i heard Dennis had gone but i learned to accept it and give Gowan a chance and no he does not have Dennis,s vocal ability(Who does?) but he is a great showman and a band MEMBER and not someone who dictates the bands every musical direction and where they tour. I interviewed a member of Styx.s production team in 1997 for a magazine and do you know what Dennis had inserted in a contract?...that every show must open and close with 1 of his songs aint that petty from a so called hero ?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Larry, Todd and Ricky are basicly hired musicians. They do not have the power to dictate the musical directions or touring of the band Styx. They can be "let go" at anytime. Legally it was easy for Glen to leave without certain touring commitments. Once Dennis was kicked out of the band, JY is the #1 leader of the band, he was left with the most "power". Since Tommy sold his rights to the band sometime in the 1990's (?) and Chuck is semi-retired, JY would be the big honcho. I'm not sure how the contract was changed in 1999 for all the rights. I guess it would be interesting to find out. Again, if someone knows more please correct me if I'm wrong. I can't remember what I was told about all the contracts throughout the years - LOL :roll:

Back in the hey day of Styx, to me, the band needed a leader like Dennis. Just look at the albums (cds) that he produced, I think they did pretty good. Yes, I know he had his faults, but who doesn't. To me, he and all the members of Styx made them what they were back in the hey day.

As for Dennis being petty on what song's to open and close with, that's normal with a lot of bands when you have a variety of songwriters in them. There was an article on a different band that explained the pettiness (sp?) of how songs are arranged in concerts and why. It's interesting, I'll have to find it

DarrenUK, have a safe trip and Happy Holidays

[/quote]

by **bugsymalone** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:35 am

Honestlly, DarrenUK, I appreciate your comments. And I fully understand where you are coming from.
I also admire your honesty about about Dennis and the current lineup that is Styx.

We differ on how we feel about the latter, for sure.

Here is the ironic kicker. If the group out there calling themselves "Styx" had simply inserted another part to the name, indicating they they are not the Classic lineup of Styx, but a different group (which they are), I would be all for them. I have heard them play on TV and they are adequate to good for the most part. There is a big hole where Dennis used to be but that is purely a matter of debate on all parts.

I (and a few others) resent the use of the name Styx after the way in which Dennis was dumped from the band. All they would have to have done, to make ME happy, would be to have changed the name, slightly, added a "new" or "20th Century" or some such to Styx to designate that in concert, you are not getting the original band. (Since most of the advertising is still done with Dennis' voice on their best known songs).

BTW, I think ALL bands who make major changes to their key personnel and then go out and tour under the old name should do this, but they sure don't ask ME for advice!! :wink:

Strong feelings abide about this group Styx and many are expressed here on this board. Sometimes a bit harshly, but, as Ash said, when you read and interact with everyone, we are mostly a very reasonable lot with lots of humor injected in what we write.

And ALL of us know about Froy and take him with a big grain of salt. He stirs up the pot but that is ok, because he gets answered in kind by the "other side."

Lastly, I do tease about Gowan, and I think, probably, he is likely the nicest guy in that group. He was put in a perilous position having to fill in for Dennis and he was hired for his keyboard skills, not his voice.
It does not change the fact that he is a lousy singer and they need to relegate him to keys and background in my opinion, but there he is, front and center, on "I Am the Walrus." Go figure.

Peace out,
Bugsy

by **styxfanNH** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:52 am

Suite,

Just a couple of thoughts on the "hired guns" theory. I think in '99 when the reason for touring without Dennis was really cloudy other than Dennis was sick and couldn't tour and would rejoin Styx when he was able, you could say that they were hired guns. But now that they have recorded an album (Cyclorama) and given each member equal credit in the writing of the songs, they have decided that each is a full fledged member and therefore no longer a hired gun. (I think of a "hired gun" as someone who either is a studio musician or one that tours but has absolutely no real connection with the band)

I am going to guess that "STYX" can play whatever songs they choose from the catalog that is associated with STYX the band, as can Dennis. But it does make sense that Dennis does songs that featured his voice as lead and Styx does primarily the Songs that feature JY and Tommy. The reality is that Larry is now only singing a few of Dennis' songs. It's not like Dennis was the only lead singer of the band, which might be a totally different arguement.

As far as touring goes, Tommy has said a number of times that the places they go, the venues they play in, and even when they play is really given to their management team and none of them have any real say into it. They've decided to let them take care of that end of the business and they show up when they are told. (I am also sure they have parameters into the touring schedule, like we're going to take the winter off and stuff like that)

I am sure JY has full control of the band now with Tommy being right behind him or of equal power. Chuck is somewhere behind them but i would say its more like he associated with the band and has little to say about the direction the band takes. I do know that Chuck can pretty much play when he wants with Styx, but he also knows that he is not physically capable of the rigors of a full time playing tour and is for the most part happy with his role. I have read where Todd has said that he has input into the songs when they are writing as a group or he can bring ideas to the table like he did with the Palm of Your Hands short on Cyclorama but has no real input into the direction of the band. I would guess the same would be true with Larry and Ricky.

To me its the writing credit that takes the "hired gun" theory away. Because if you are willing to give up writing credit, you are in a sense including them as full fledged members. (Doesn't mean equal members or someone doesn't have more power)

by **gr8dane** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:37 am

And ALL of us know about Froy and take him with a big grain of salt. He stirs up the pot but that is ok, because he gets answered in kind by the "other side.[quote]

Kinda' like a broken record.But I do admire his total devotion to his hero.

by **LordofDaRing** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:54 am

Anyone who is naive enough to think that the current STYX comes anywhere close to being a democracy should take a look at the current Glen Burtnik interviews and read about the so called George Washington and Thomas Jefferson guitarists in STYX. Glen was as critical of DDY as anybody, but as the facts play themselves out, TS and JY have essentially done what they accused their former keyboardist of doing that is becoming dictators of this band. Nobody else has a say. Todd got to include the melody on stage, good for him, they were all old STYX songs featuring a lot of JY and Tommy lead vocals. People tend to forget that Tommy's first album with STYX he wrote the album title track and was featured prominently on all the STYX albums, I thought I read where all members were involved with the artwork on the albums, etc. The regimes have simply changed leaders, we will continue to argue if it is for the better or not.

by **gr8dane** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:53 am

If I was JY,I rather be the dictator,than being dictated by Dennis.
Guess he got sick of Dennis' 'Come sailing away on his dictatorship"

by **styxfanNH** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:06 pm

In an interview done with JY shortly after Glen left, he clearly said that part of the issues Glen had aside from being away from home more than half the year was with the frustration of not having more of his songs included on an album. JY basically said that most songs went to Tommy because he is considered the voice of Styx (at least as it is now constituted) and has the most recognizable voice of the band followed by him, then Larry and Glen at equals. JY also said that it was hard to be in a band that had four lead singers and that because of it, there wasn't much recording room on the cd as Glen wanted.

I do agree that having four lead singers when Glen was there is an odd thing for any band. And this band has always had three. I think in part that may have been part of why Ricky was hired in that he has no lead singing desire, bringing it back to three lead singers.
---------------

by **classicstyxfan** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:25 pm

more like 2....TS = 1 JY and LG = about 1/2 each !

by **yogi** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:14 am

Glens ENORMOUS vocal talents were pretty much wasted with the current rendition of Styx. He actually did three songs on Cyclorama ( Yes I Can w/ Tommy ).

When Dennis brought Glen into the mix for Edge Of The Century they pretty much did EXACTLY what they did when Tommy was brought in for Crystal Ball. Styx named the album after the new guys song ( Crystal Ball, Edge Of The Century)They also gave the new guy the first single Madamosielle, Love Is The Ritual.

As much of a prick as Dennis is made out to be, (and I have said this numerous times) he sure gave Glen much more of a chance to shine than Tommy did.

Purchase Welcome To Hollywood. Glen Burtnik IS one of the Best vocalists, and songwriters to come along. He was wasted in the current Styx. HUGE HUGE mistake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:04 am

Yogi,

You'e right :lol:

This is a fact, Dennis wanted and had Glen's song "Love Is The Ritual" to be the first song released from that album. I heard this right from Dennis (oops, bragging again, me bad-LOL)

By the way, we'll all keep fighting and arguing about the break-up of Classic Styx and everything else. After a lot of years of research, I blame Sparky, The Flying (Wonder) Dog for the break-up and problems. LOL

If you're a die-hard Classic Styx fan, you'll get the joke :wink:

by **yogi** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:35 am

Ive always blamed the break up on Yaz and his motorcycle stunts!!

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:32 am

Oh, that's right and that's during the same time period as Sparky, well within 2 years - LOL

So it's Sparky and Yaz to be the blame - LOL

by **piecesofeight** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:37 am

I've always blamed the janitor.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:53 am

Yaz, Sparky and the Janitor. Those are the 3 to put all the blame on - LOL I don't blame any member of Styx anymore!!

:lol:

by **kansas666** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:20 am

I can't claim this as fact. But from what I know about the industry and what other bands have done, I am pretty sure the business arrangement in STYX is very different now than it was in the salad days.

With the classic lineup they were each equal partners in the band. That I am pretty sure of after seeing Behind the music.

The current lineup consists of JY, Tommy and Chuck as partners. Probably not equal partners because I don't think Chuck takes an equal share of the touring gross. And the other members are "hired guns". Meaning they have a contract, are paid a salary and do not have any say into the day to day workings of the band.

So I can understand the friction that existed when Dennis was "in charge".

Sure, there is a new set of leaders now. But the business arrangement is vastly different.

MR

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