The response should be...

[Boomchild]

My opinion was that Styx got much BIGGER with their switch to A&M. Once they got to A&M with Equinox they became a much more polished act. And they became MUCH MUCH better

Was Tommy a main reason for their success, and them becoming more polished? ABSOLUTELY!!! Tommy Shaw is a HUGE talent!!!

Their move to A&M was definitely a part to their success. The addition of Tommy was also key. The collaboration with DDY and Tommy helped them get to where they were.

JY is the constant in all of these Go figure??????

He was constant alright. But he never brought the real goods to the table that would have made Styx the success they were. He did not have the ability to come up with material on his own that would sell. I think it was Tommy that commented that the material he brought to the table always needed A LOT of work to make into something. To be a success in the music business you first have to have material that will sell records.
Clearly it was TS and DDY that were doing that.

[Toph]

My opinion was that Styx got much BIGGER with their switch to A&M. Once they got to A&M with Equinox they became a much more polished act. And they became MUCH MUCH better

Was Tommy a main reason for their success, and them becoming more polished? ABSOLUTELY!!! Tommy Shaw is a HUGE talent!!!

Their move to A&M was definitely a part to their success. The addition of Tommy was also key. The collaboration with DDY and Tommy helped them get to where they were.

JY is the constant in all of these Go figure??????

He was constant alright. But he never brought the real goods to the table that would have made Styx the success they were. He did not have the ability to come up with material on his own that would sell. I think it was Tommy that commented that the material he brought to the table always needed A LOT of work to make into something. To be a success in the music business you first have to have material that will sell records.
Clearly it was TS and DDY that were doing that.

And in the non acting like an a-hole department (since DDY always gets pegged as being the a-hole), DDY and TS could have certainly taken writing credits for all the help they gave JY to make his songs acceptable. But they mostly let him get solo credit for many of his songs, putting more money in his pocket.

[yogi]

For me and obviously NOT all people Styx is a GREAT GREAT band without Tommy Shaw as evidenced by the album Equinox and, and some really great songs from their Wooden Nickel era plus the great album and tour supporting Edge Of the Century.

Styx is also a GREAT GREAT band without Dennis Deyoung as evidenced by the GREAT album Cyclorama and some REALLY great tours showcasing all of immense talents.

With all of that said I wish the current band would consist of: Dennis,Tommy, JY, Glen, Chuck(when he can), Gowan and Todd.

[Toph]

For me and obviously NOT all people Styx is a GREAT GREAT band without Tommy Shaw as evidenced by the album Equinox and, and some really great songs from their Wooden Nickel era plus the great album and tour supporting Edge Of the Century.

Styx is also a GREAT GREAT band without Dennis Deyoung as evidenced by the GREAT album Cyclorama and some REALLY great tours showcasing all of immense talents.

With all of that said I wish the current band would consist of: Dennis,Tommy, JY, Glen, Chuck(when he can), Gowan and Todd.

I know this is a longshot, but if they make it into the RNR HOF, you would have to bring out that lineup when inducted. You would have to have DDY as part of that, and in his familiar lead role - if only for that night. I am fine with Gowan being a second keyboardist/backup vocalist and think Glen needs to be out there as well given his contributions. But obviously the focus would be on DDY/TS and I guess JY as this was the foundation of the group. If they somehow made the HOF and didn't invite Dennis and pretend that he didn't exist, I'm betting even the hardest core fans of the current lineup (i.e. Gr8t) would find that offensive.

[Boomchild]

For me and obviously NOT all people Styx is a GREAT GREAT band without Tommy Shaw as evidenced by the album Equinox and, and some really great songs from their Wooden Nickel era plus the great album and tour supporting Edge Of the Century.

Styx is also a GREAT GREAT band without Dennis Deyoung as evidenced by the GREAT album Cyclorama and some REALLY great tours showcasing all of immense talents.

With all of that said I wish the current band would consist of: Dennis,Tommy, JY, Glen, Chuck(when he can), Gowan and Todd.

I know this is a longshot, but if they make it into the RNR HOF, you would have to bring out that lineup when inducted. You would have to have DDY as part of that, and in his familiar lead role - if only for that night. I am fine with Gowan being a second keyboardist/backup vocalist and think Glen needs to be out there as well given his contributions. But obviously the focus would be on DDY/TS and I guess JY as this was the foundation of the group. If they somehow made the HOF and didn't invite Dennis and pretend that he didn't exist, I'm betting even the hardest core fans of the current lineup (i.e. Gr8t) would find that offensive.

Hell would have to freeze over first for Styx to make into the RR Hall of Fame. Personally, I couldn't give a rat ass about that organization.

[Boomchild]

Styx is also a GREAT GREAT band without Dennis Deyoung as evidenced by the GREAT album Cyclorama and some REALLY great tours showcasing all of immense talents.

To each his own. For me it isn't Styx without him. He was too much a part of their style and sound. His voice is\was synonymous with Styx. Even when they regrouped in the 90's without Tommy it didn't feel totally like Styx for me. In no way is that a dig on Glen. I enjoyed his contributions but it just wasn't the same for me. Now what you have is a band full of replacements. Devoid of the signature sound from the time they made their mark. I'm sure the current band puts on a quality professional show. After all they are professional musicians. But that doesn't make them the Styx I knew and came to love. As far as Cyclorama it does have some songs on it that I like but it's not a Styx record to me. I think labeling it a masterpiece is overblown. I gave this line up a fair chance by buying that album and going to see Styx sans DDY. It just didn't do it for me.
The same could be said for DDY's band. It's a professional and quality show put on by talented musicians. It showcases (more completely) the songs that made Styx a great band. Even still it isn't Styx. At least though, you get to hear the person that wrote and sang those songs sans the TS tunes.

[Baron Von Bielski]

Show Me the Way is a decent song, but it's nothing compared to Dennis' early stuff with Styx. I think Edge is a sappy album, not to mention it contains JY's worst song to date.

[gr8dane]

Topher you have avoided a question I just asked twice so i'll try again.
If Dennis is so amazing and taking care of all their hits and producing it all,
and basically being responsible for all Styx success,
how come his solo albums and Broadway stint was so laughable and not as successful as the Styx stuff ?

[gr8dane]

You almost had me there.
As I was almost choking with emotions,reading about Styx' treatment of Dennis,I thankfully remembered some important things.
Dennis was stupid enough to get himself fired not once but twice.
Seeing him on Behind the music, going on with self importance,about Styx not playing without him.
Todd's description of the way Dennis was treating Tommy,on page 294 in The Grand Delusion.
Dennis' phone call to a radio station in Montreal,doing the 'Do you know who I am' bit and singing a bit to make sure the DJ knew who he was dealing with.
So after what Chuck,Tommy and JY had to endure ,I can't blame them for feeling insulted ,and not want Dennis in the band with them.
So three cheers to the boys for standing up for themselves,and carrying on the way feel is the best for them.

LOL, the innocent victim label applied over and over to TS and JY is so pathetic. As if their own egos, personal motives and ambitions did not contribute to the problems that existed between them. Your stretching it with DDY's comment from BTM where he said hew could never imagine Styx performing without him. That wasn't self importance, it's more he never thought that would happen. The issue with Todd's comment is we don't know what led up to that situation. Tommy also seems to have a habit of avoiding and not directly expressing issues he has with the person they are with. The phone call to the radio station and the bit with the DJ is typical DDY schtick humor. If you have listened to enough interviews with him you would see that. As I have said before all of them have had their own issues that led up to what happened. So please spare us with the halo routine when it comes to TS and JY.

You sure about the call to Montreal, when he was just sacked was an attempt of humor.?
I don't think so.

[gr8dane]

You almost had me there.
As I was almost choking with emotions,reading about Styx' treatment of Dennis,I thankfully remembered some important things.
Dennis was stupid enough to get himself fired not once but twice.
Seeing him on Behind the music, going on with self importance,about Styx not playing without him.
Todd's description of the way Dennis was treating Tommy,on page 294 in The Grand Delusion.
Dennis' phone call to a radio station in Montreal,doing the 'Do you know who I am' bit and singing a bit to make sure the DJ knew who he was dealing with.
So after what Chuck,Tommy and JY had to endure ,I can't blame them for feeling insulted ,and not want Dennis in the band with them.
So three cheers to the boys for standing up for themselves,and carrying on the way feel is the best for them.

LOL, the innocent victim label applied over and over to TS and JY is so pathetic. As if their own egos, personal motives and ambitions did not contribute to the problems that existed between them. Your stretching it with DDY's comment from BTM where he said hew could never imagine Styx performing without him. That wasn't self importance, it's more he never thought that would happen. The issue with Todd's comment is we don't know what led up to that situation. Tommy also seems to have a habit of avoiding and not directly expressing issues he has with the person they are with. The phone call to the radio station and the bit with the DJ is typical DDY schtick humor. If you have listened to enough interviews with him you would see that. As I have said before all of them have had their own issues that led up to what happened. So please spare us with the halo routine when it comes to TS and JY.

I love bringing up the innocent victim applied to TS and JY up every now and again.
Because then we can have you and topher falling over one another to turn it around in Dennis' favour and making him look good,
and you making excuses for him.
Funny stuff.

[Monker]

LOL, the innocent victim label applied over and over to TS and JY is so pathetic. As if their own egos, personal motives and ambitions did not contribute to the problems that existed between them. Your stretching it with DDY's comment from BTM where he said hew could never imagine Styx performing without him. That wasn't self importance, it's more he never thought that would happen. The issue with Todd's comment is we don't know what led up to that situation. Tommy also seems to have a habit of avoiding and not directly expressing issues he has with the person they are with. The phone call to the radio station and the bit with the DJ is typical DDY schtick humor. If you have listened to enough interviews with him you would see that. As I have said before all of them have had their own issues that led up to what happened. So please spare us with the halo routine when it comes to TS and JY.

That may be true, that they all played a victim. It's also a perfect example of the Drama Triangle and why you all should read it.

They have all played the villan...the one who demands his way or he quits, or manipulates to get his way, or negotiats and bugs until people give in. He's the one who feels he's the most important, or that his contributiions are not recognized or respected, or demands more respect then he actually deserves.

All of them can fit into that at different times.

They have all been the powerless victim...the one who has things happen TO him. He's the person who does not have control of his own destiny. He is a "Why me?" person

Again, they have all been in that position.

Then there is the Rescuer. Who knows how many times in private when one has backed the other, JY coming to Tommy's rescue in arguments with Dennis, or vce versa...Or, JY defending Dennis when Tommy was on drugs. Or, whatever.

And, the fans come into this, too...Defending their side claiming the other is the villan and whoever they support is the victim.

So, they all swap roles in an endless cycle of blame, shame, and victimhood. And, here is the truth...they are all whiney victim, including the fans. A person in the villan role is really a victim who has an issue with others having more power and control...because they are afraid of being victimized again. A rescuer is a victim who hides their hurt by trying to get the 'high' of helping somebody else.

The interesting part is when you read about how to end the cycle:

You end the relationship with those who are dysfunctional and refuse to change and:

Be aware that others close to you may interpret your departure from the Triangle as a personal rejection. They may feel hurt and even get depressed when you refuse to participate in this crippled form of intimacy. Others may become angry and attack you. They may even try to turn others you care about against you by spreading rumors or even telling lies about you. While this won’t get them what they want (being close to you ), it will suck other people in to replace you on the Triangle. It may also get them some Victim payoffs via the Coke Machine Syndrome. Prepare for these challenges when you decide stop giving the pay-off that people are used to getting from you via the Drama Triangle. They will push your buttons harder. Then if that doesn’t work, they will push all your other buttons. And again if that doesn’t work, they may yell at you or try to make you feel guilty. If this doesn’t get them what they want, they may tell others what a bad machine you are. If you don’t get back on the Triangle with them, eventually they will have to go away in search of others who will play on the Triangle with them. -- "How to Break Free From the Drama Triangle"

Tommy and JY broke free from all the victimhood and drama when they fired Dennis. Yeah, you can argue there have been times when they hopped back on (JY interviews, for example). But, the fact remains they are the ones who took the proper action to end it and move on with their career.

[Archetype]

For me and obviously NOT all people Styx is a GREAT GREAT band without Tommy Shaw as evidenced by the album Equinox and, and some really great songs from their Wooden Nickel era plus the great album and tour supporting Edge Of the Century.

Totally agreed. Edge of the Century is a fantastic album- one of their best.

[Zan]

Hey guys! Long time, no anything!

Yogi - I think I figured it out: You're the "Onion" of the Styx forums. LOL

I won't comment on the rest of this thread, besides that Glen wasn't necessarily embarrassed, so much as he just didn't love what he was playing and he's never been a fan of musical monotany - also, Dennis DeYoung and Lou Gramm together would be like watching the Seahawks and the Broncos again.

Just wanted to say hi.

[Boomchild]

Topher you have avoided a question I just asked twice so i'll try again.
If Dennis is so amazing and taking care of all their hits and producing it all,
and basically being responsible for all Styx success,
how come his solo albums and Broadway stint was so laughable and not as successful as the Styx stuff ?

None of their solo careers were going to be as successful as Styx. That's because it was their collaboration in Styx that worked so well and you weren't going to get the same result solo. A&M offered solo deals to both TS and DDY. So it seems that is where they felt the driving talent in Styx was. Sure DDY's solo career was not as successful as his work with Styx but it's far from laughable. If you want to talk about laughable, lets talk about JY's attempt at a solo career. He couldn't get a deal with any of the major labels so he had to resort to self releasing his albums. This is coming off the heels of being in one of the hottest rock acts at the time. With one of his releases he was making copies on cassette from his home. You want to talk about a solo career that was a complete failure, JY's is a perfect example.

[Boomchild]

I love bringing up the innocent victim applied to TS and JY up every now and again.
Because then we can have you and topher falling over one another to turn it around in Dennis' favour and making him look good,
and you making excuses for him.
Funny stuff.

I am not making excuses or trying to make him look good. As with any story there are two sides to it. In this case the whole story is not just from TS' and JY's point of view. If you look at what has been said in public, DDY has been more consistent then his former band mates. DDY had his issues and faults just like the rest of them. He has an ego and personal ambition just as the others. It was the others in the band that let DDY take the lead based on what he was bringing to the table was producing results. Maybe not in the direction that they personally wanted to go but it was selling records and selling concert tickets. Which seems to be the reason they did that. You can't make that choice and then cry fowl. So now that you have stated that you troll post, I can just scroll past them. Thanks for saving me the time.

[gr8dane]

Topher you have avoided a question I just asked twice so i'll try again.
If Dennis is so amazing and taking care of all their hits and producing it all,
and basically being responsible for all Styx success,
how come his solo albums and Broadway stint was so laughable and not as successful as the Styx stuff ?

None of their solo careers were going to be as successful as Styx. That's because it was their collaboration in Styx that worked so well and you weren't going to get the same result solo. A&M offered solo deals to both TS and DDY. So it seems that is where they felt the driving talent in Styx was. Sure DDY's solo career was not as successful as his work with Styx but it's far from laughable. If you want to talk about laughable, lets talk about JY's attempt at a solo career. He couldn't get a deal with any of the major labels so he had to resort to self releasing his albums. This is coming off the heels of being in one of the hottest rock acts at the time. With one of his releases he was making copies on cassette from his home. You want to talk about a solo career that was a complete failure, JY's is a perfect example.

I was hoping topher would have answered the question.
In his eyes JY and Tommy are nothing without Dennis,
so why even bring them into the conversation.
I am comparing Dennis to Styx here.
If Dennis was responsible for all the hits,ideas and production and everything related to their success,
how come his solo albums and musicals did not fare as well as Styx.??

[gr8dane]

I love bringing up the innocent victim applied to TS and JY up every now and again.
Because then we can have you and topher falling over one another to turn it around in Dennis' favour and making him look good,
and you making excuses for him.
Funny stuff.

I am not making excuses or trying to make him look good. As with any story there are two sides to it. In this case the whole story is not just from TS' and JY's point of view. If you look at what has been said in public, DDY has been more consistent then his former band mates. DDY had his issues and faults just like the rest of them. He has an ego and personal ambition just as the others. It was the others in the band that let DDY take the lead based on what he was bringing to the table was producing results. Maybe not in the direction that they personally wanted to go but it was selling records and selling concert tickets. Which seems to be the reason they did that. You can't make that choice and then cry fowl. So now that you have stated that you troll post, I can just scroll past them.


Thanks for saving me the time.

Your welcome.

[Toph]

Hey guys! Long time, no anything!

Yogi - I think I figured it out: You're the "Onion" of the Styx forums. LOL

I won't comment on the rest of this thread, besides that Glen wasn't necessarily embarrassed, so much as he just didn't love what he was playing and he's never been a fan of musical monotany - also, Dennis DeYoung and Lou Gramm together would be like watching the Seahawks and the Broncos again.

Just wanted to say hi.

Welcome back. Your analogy begs the question - who is the Seahawks and who is the Broncos?

[Toph]

Topher you have avoided a question I just asked twice so i'll try again.
If Dennis is so amazing and taking care of all their hits and producing it all,
and basically being responsible for all Styx success,
how come his solo albums and Broadway stint was so laughable and not as successful as the Styx stuff ?

None of their solo careers were going to be as successful as Styx. That's because it was their collaboration in Styx that worked so well and you weren't going to get the same result solo. A&M offered solo deals to both TS and DDY. So it seems that is where they felt the driving talent in Styx was. Sure DDY's solo career was not as successful as his work with Styx but it's far from laughable. If you want to talk about laughable, lets talk about JY's attempt at a solo career. He couldn't get a deal with any of the major labels so he had to resort to self releasing his albums. This is coming off the heels of being in one of the hottest rock acts at the time. With one of his releases he was making copies on cassette from his home. You want to talk about a solo career that was a complete failure, JY's is a perfect example.

I was hoping topher would have answered the question.
In his eyes JY and Tommy are nothing without Dennis,
so why even bring them into the conversation.
I am comparing Dennis to Styx here.
If Dennis was responsible for all the hits,ideas and production and everything related to their success,
how come his solo albums and musicals did not fare as well as Styx.??

Comparing apples to oranges. I know you aren't that bright, but that should be pretty obivious. Styx is a brand. Dennis DeYoung is not. Dennis DeYoung built the Styx brand. Dennis DeYoung as a solo artist doesn't have any of the brand equity that Styx has - yet he still was able to land a top 10 single. And among the three of them, he was by far and away the most successful solo.

[Archetype]

Oh poor Tommy Shaw and JY, yes, they were the victims here. Give me a FUCKING break.

If they hadn't ridden DDY's coattails, JY would be schlepping around making 30K a year as a taxi driver and Tommy would still be playing bowling alleys in Montgomery if he hadn't totally OD'd on drugs at this point.

How about the fact that Tommy Shaw is a lying sniveling weasel who wouldn't know how to tell the truth if it hit him in the face? Not to mention that his coke habit and great ability to take his toys and go home if he doesn't get his way resulted in the band blowing a ton of opportunities in the late 70s and early 80s. "If you don't release the song I want to release as a single then I quit!" Very mature.

Or JY, a no talent rock star who was put in charge of the "business" side. You know why? Because if you don't have any talent, you have to find a place somewhere. Hey, but JY and his lawyers were certainly diabolical enough to figure out a way to oust DDY from the band against his own free will and now likes to write revisionist history about the band.

Exactly how much success has the band had since DDY was unceremoniously thrown out? If they had experienced as much success as they had in raising bs meter, then it would be 1981 all over again....

I like Styx and Dennis and attend concerts of each camp, but this is pretty much spot-on. Dennis made that band. The other guys were pretty much just along for the ride. Tommy himself had admitted that Dennis played a large role in polishing up his and JY's songs.

[Toph]

Topher you have avoided a question I just asked twice so i'll try again.
If Dennis is so amazing and taking care of all their hits and producing it all,
and basically being responsible for all Styx success,
how come his solo albums and Broadway stint was so laughable and not as successful as the Styx stuff ?

None of their solo careers were going to be as successful as Styx. That's because it was their collaboration in Styx that worked so well and you weren't going to get the same result solo. A&M offered solo deals to both TS and DDY. So it seems that is where they felt the driving talent in Styx was. Sure DDY's solo career was not as successful as his work with Styx but it's far from laughable. If you want to talk about laughable, lets talk about JY's attempt at a solo career. He couldn't get a deal with any of the major labels so he had to resort to self releasing his albums. This is coming off the heels of being in one of the hottest rock acts at the time. With one of his releases he was making copies on cassette from his home. You want to talk about a solo career that was a complete failure, JY's is a perfect example.

Yes, the day that JY told folks that if they wanted a cassette of the album that he would make one on his stereo for them from the LP, I laughed my ass off and thought, "If this isn't Spinal Tap, I don't know what is..." (Thinking of JY in his family room trying to time the record/play button with the beginning of his solo record....

[masque]

here are my thoughts on most of this;

1) styx itself would have not been as big as they were in 1981 if they had stayed together...Kilroy was testament to that.....a couple of big hits and declining album sales.....nearly all of the bands from the 70's were seeing a decline in the popularity and their own style of music had become watered down....ie, journey, foreigner and reo. so it stands to reason that if the brand was seeing a decline at the time of the breakup then the solo artists within the band would do even worse....and they did. is that an embarrassment? not really to me, because for every Sting you have a DDY, Tommy, JY and plenty more like them....I'm proud that Dennis scored a top 10 hit with his solo career but collectively their lack of success was coming with the changing climate of music, styx or no styx.

2) DDY was the driver of the bus, plain and simple, from a musical standpoint.....see here.s my thing, I dont nor will I ever argue that....BUT, even though I acknowledge that doesnt mean he's automatically my fave.....tommy is because I actually prefer his writing over DDY's....but I love DDY as well....I dont know why it's so important to place this arbitrary value on everything they did when we really know little about who contributed what behind the scenes. and some folks want to totally dismiss JY's contribution but I can honestly tell you that everyone needs to consider a few things here.....I was old enough to watch a great deal of the styx train the first time it happened and I can tell you that almost all of my friends LOVED JY.....they loved his stage persona and his guitar playing and while songs like babe and mr. roboto were big on the radio, to the folks on the street songs like miss america and great white hope were huge and very important to real styx fans......and I can promise you that JY was a massive force for the band from the live standpoint. that cannot be argued anymore than it can be argued that DDY wasnt the driving creative force for the band during their heyday. he was and JY was what I describe above as well. in some ways you could sort of say that JY was a less popular version of styx's "ace frehley".....wasnt a chief writer or singer but was certainly important to the fans and a huge part of what made them cool in their big run.

3) i think it's also important to remember that if not for JY during the wooden nickel days that their likely would have never been a styx as we know it.....he was the front man and did a huge chunk of the vocals, while DDY was finding himself as a writer and an artist.....did they have much success? nope, but enough to survive and without JY's contributions during the early days they may have all never had a career as we know it now.

4) i dont think styx will ever see the rock and roll hall of fame, but if they did I dont think glen should get any more recognition than any of the other non-heyday members.....I think that recognition should be for DDY, Tommy, JY Chuck and John.....and if one of those folks want to thank and acknowledge glen, todd, gowan, ricky then that's fine......but those people didnt build the empire they just helped keep it afloat. styx has had virtually no real success, other than touring, with any of those folks other than the big 5, so it would make no sense to honor those other folks and I love those guys and what they have done but it's just the way it would need to be.......I mean look at KISS, they actually have had some significant success without ace and peter with other guys making legitimate contributions but the hall has been very specific that this induction for them is for gene, paul, ace and peter......so i think you will see gene or paul thank all the others that have helped and you will likely see some of those others possibly even perform at the hall but they wont be honored.

[gr8dane]

Toph.

I understand what you are saying about the Styx brand vs. Dennis solo.
But I do not really agree.
Styx was one of the biggest bands in US between 77-82.Everybody who liked Styx knew all their names.
They were in the music magazines,interviews, photos.
In the papers when they traveled through your town.
Babe was their #1 hit.Everybody in the US must have heard that song weather they liked to or not.Everybody who liked the song would know Dennis was the singer because of his 'unique ' voice.
He sang all their hits.
So with him as the architect,the writer of the hits,the producer and the idea man,
why couldn't he come up with something equally as successful as a solo artist (or at least close), as Styx.????

Christ ,look at Phil Collins.I would have thought that Dennis could have been at least half as successful with all that supposed brilliance.

What I am trying to say here is...

I think the other guys in Styx, had a lot more to do with their all around
success ,than you are willing to admit to ?
Hence the not very successful solo Dennis albums in comparison.

Could that be ?

[gr8dane]

here are my thoughts on most of this;

1) styx itself would have not been as big as they were in 1981 if they had stayed together...Kilroy was testament to that.....a couple of big hits and declining album sales.....nearly all of the bands from the 70's were seeing a decline in the popularity and their own style of music had become watered down....ie, journey, foreigner and reo. so it stands to reason that if the brand was seeing a decline at the time of the breakup then the solo artists within the band would do even worse....and they did. is that an embarrassment? not really to me, because for every Sting you have a DDY, Tommy, JY and plenty more like them....I'm proud that Dennis scored a top 10 hit with his solo career but collectively their lack of success was coming with the changing climate of music, styx or no styx.

2) DDY was the driver of the bus, plain and simple, from a musical standpoint.....see here.s my thing, I dont nor will I ever argue that....BUT, even though I acknowledge that doesnt mean he's automatically my fave.....tommy is because I actually prefer his writing over DDY's....but I love DDY as well....I dont know why it's so important to place this arbitrary value on everything they did when we really know little about who contributed what behind the scenes. and some folks want to totally dismiss JY's contribution but I can honestly tell you that everyone needs to consider a few things here.....I was old enough to watch a great deal of the styx train the first time it happened and I can tell you that almost all of my friends LOVED JY.....they loved his stage persona and his guitar playing and while songs like babe and mr. roboto were big on the radio, to the folks on the street songs like miss america and great white hope were huge and very important to real styx fans......and I can promise you that JY was a massive force for the band from the live standpoint. that cannot be argued anymore than it can be argued that DDY wasnt the driving creative force for the band during their heyday. he was and JY was what I describe above as well. in some ways you could sort of say that JY was a less popular version of styx's "ace frehley".....wasnt a chief writer or singer but was certainly important to the fans and a huge part of what made them cool in their big run.

3) i think it's also important to remember that if not for JY during the wooden nickel days that their likely would have never been a styx as we know it.....he was the front man and did a huge chunk of the vocals, while DDY was finding himself as a writer and an artist.....did they have much success? nope, but enough to survive and without JY's contributions during the early days they may have all never had a career as we know it now.

4) i dont think styx will ever see the rock and roll hall of fame, but if they did I dont think glen should get any more recognition than any of the other non-heyday members.....I think that recognition should be for DDY, Tommy, JY Chuck and John.....and if one of those folks want to thank and acknowledge glen, todd, gowan, ricky then that's fine......but those people didnt build the empire they just helped keep it afloat. styx has had virtually no real success, other than touring, with any of those folks other than the big 5, so it would make no sense to honor those other folks and I love those guys and what they have done but it's just the way it would need to be.......I mean look at KISS, they actually have had some significant success without ace and peter with other guys making legitimate contributions but the hall has been very specific that this induction for them is for gene, paul, ace and peter......so i think you will see gene or paul thank all the others that have helped and you will likely see some of those others possibly even perform at the hall but they wont be honored.

Very nicely put.

[gr8dane]

Topher you have avoided a question I just asked twice so i'll try again.
If Dennis is so amazing and taking care of all their hits and producing it all,
and basically being responsible for all Styx success,
how come his solo albums and Broadway stint was so laughable and not as successful as the Styx stuff ?

None of their solo careers were going to be as successful as Styx. That's because it was their collaboration in Styx that worked so well and you weren't going to get the same result solo. A&M offered solo deals to both TS and DDY. So it seems that is where they felt the driving talent in Styx was. Sure DDY's solo career was not as successful as his work with Styx but it's far from laughable. If you want to talk about laughable, lets talk about JY's attempt at a solo career. He couldn't get a deal with any of the major labels so he had to resort to self releasing his albums. This is coming off the heels of being in one of the hottest rock acts at the time. With one of his releases he was making copies on cassette from his home. You want to talk about a solo career that was a complete failure, JY's is a perfect example.

Yes, the day that JY told folks that if they wanted a cassette of the album that he would make one on his stereo for them from the LP, I laughed my ass off and thought, "If this isn't Spinal Tap, I don't know what is..." (Thinking of JY in his family room trying to time the record/play button with the beginning of his solo record....

Poor JY.Must have been tough.
Funny how different things with Styx and within can give us laughs for different reasons.
I was laughing my ass off when Dennis got the boot.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Toph.

I understand what you are saying about the Styx brand vs. Dennis solo.
But I do not really agree.
Styx was one of the biggest bands in US between 77-82.Everybody who liked Styx knew all their names.
They were in the music magazines,interviews, photos.
In the papers when they traveled through your town.
Babe was their #1 hit.Everybody in the US must have heard that song weather they liked to or not.Everybody who liked the song would know Dennis was the singer because of his 'unique ' voice.
He sang all their hits.
So with him as the architect,the writer of the hits,the producer and the idea man,
why couldn't he come up with something equally as successful as a solo artist (or at least close), as Styx.????

Christ ,look at Phil Collins.I would have thought that Dennis could have been at least half as successful with all that supposed brilliance.

What I am trying to say here is...

I think the other guys in Styx, had a lot more to do with their all around
success ,than you are willing to admit to ?
Hence the not very successful solo Dennis albums in comparison.

Could that be ?

Your bias is showing

[Archetype]

Toph.

I understand what you are saying about the Styx brand vs. Dennis solo.
But I do not really agree.
Styx was one of the biggest bands in US between 77-82.Everybody who liked Styx knew all their names.
They were in the music magazines,interviews, photos.
In the papers when they traveled through your town.
Babe was their #1 hit.Everybody in the US must have heard that song weather they liked to or not.Everybody who liked the song would know Dennis was the singer because of his 'unique ' voice.
He sang all their hits.
So with him as the architect,the writer of the hits,the producer and the idea man,
why couldn't he come up with something equally as successful as a solo artist (or at least close), as Styx.????

Christ ,look at Phil Collins.I would have thought that Dennis could have been at least half as successful with all that supposed brilliance.

What I am trying to say here is...

I think the other guys in Styx, had a lot more to do with their all around
success ,than you are willing to admit to ?
Hence the not very successful solo Dennis albums in comparison.

Could that be ?

Genesis is/was a much bigger band than Styx. Plus Phil Collins' music is much more "easy listening" than what Dennis DeYoung brings to the table. He's also able to appeal to a wider fan base due to varying styles and lyrical themes.

[gr8dane]

Toph.

I understand what you are saying about the Styx brand vs. Dennis solo.
But I do not really agree.
Styx was one of the biggest bands in US between 77-82.Everybody who liked Styx knew all their names.
They were in the music magazines,interviews, photos.
In the papers when they traveled through your town.
Babe was their #1 hit.Everybody in the US must have heard that song weather they liked to or not.Everybody who liked the song would know Dennis was the singer because of his 'unique ' voice.
He sang all their hits.
So with him as the architect,the writer of the hits,the producer and the idea man,
why couldn't he come up with something equally as successful as a solo artist (or at least close), as Styx.????

Christ ,look at Phil Collins.I would have thought that Dennis could have been at least half as successful with all that supposed brilliance.

What I am trying to say here is...

I think the other guys in Styx, had a lot more to do with their all around
success ,than you are willing to admit to ?
Hence the not very successful solo Dennis albums in comparison.

Could that be ?

Your bias is showing

So ?
Not really that unusual around here.
Bias or not,I don't think there is anything wrong with that question.

If according to toph,Tommy and JY and the rest were only riding the coat tails of all Dennis,
why couldn't Dennis pull it off solo ?
Straight forward question .

Sure I am not too keen on Dennis,but I realize he is responsible for a lot,
but not all.
From Crystal Ball and on ,I would say that Dennis is 50 % Styx,Tommy 35 and JY 15 in the sound of Styx department.
That's a hell of a lot more flexible,in my bias,
than what goes on in toph's bias where it's Dennis 95% and Tommy 5 and JY -100%.(maybe I am too generous to Tommy here).

But maybe you think Dennis is all also ?

[gr8dane]

Toph.

I understand what you are saying about the Styx brand vs. Dennis solo.
But I do not really agree.
Styx was one of the biggest bands in US between 77-82.Everybody who liked Styx knew all their names.
They were in the music magazines,interviews, photos.
In the papers when they traveled through your town.
Babe was their #1 hit.Everybody in the US must have heard that song weather they liked to or not.Everybody who liked the song would know Dennis was the singer because of his 'unique ' voice.
He sang all their hits.
So with him as the architect,the writer of the hits,the producer and the idea man,
why couldn't he come up with something equally as successful as a solo artist (or at least close), as Styx.????

Christ ,look at Phil Collins.I would have thought that Dennis could have been at least half as successful with all that supposed brilliance.

What I am trying to say here is...

I think the other guys in Styx, had a lot more to do with their all around
success ,than you are willing to admit to ?
Hence the not very successful solo Dennis albums in comparison.

Could that be ?

Genesis is/was a much bigger band than Styx. Plus Phil Collins' music is much more "easy listening" than what Dennis DeYoung brings to the table. He's also able to appeal to a wider fan base due to varying styles and lyrical themes.

Though Genesis had a longer life span,I think Styx had a pretty healthy recognition, with a 4 consecutive multiplatinum run.
Doesn't get much bigger than that,though it was 5 years only or so.

[Monker]

Toph.

I understand what you are saying about the Styx brand vs. Dennis solo.
But I do not really agree.
Styx was one of the biggest bands in US between 77-82.Everybody who liked Styx knew all their names.
They were in the music magazines,interviews, photos.
In the papers when they traveled through your town.
Babe was their #1 hit.Everybody in the US must have heard that song weather they liked to or not.Everybody who liked the song would know Dennis was the singer because of his 'unique ' voice.
He sang all their hits.
So with him as the architect,the writer of the hits,the producer and the idea man,
why couldn't he come up with something equally as successful as a solo artist (or at least close), as Styx.????

Christ ,look at Phil Collins.I would have thought that Dennis could have been at least half as successful with all that supposed brilliance.

What I am trying to say here is...

I think the other guys in Styx, had a lot more to do with their all around
success ,than you are willing to admit to ?
Hence the not very successful solo Dennis albums in comparison.

Could that be ?

Genesis is/was a much bigger band than Styx. Plus Phil Collins' music is much more "easy listening" than what Dennis DeYoung brings to the table. He's also able to appeal to a wider fan base due to varying styles and lyrical themes.

Though Genesis had a longer life span,I think Styx had a pretty healthy recognition, with a 4 consecutive multiplatinum run.
Doesn't get much bigger than that,though it was 5 years only or so.

Or, you can take the other route and look at Peter Gabriel...who left Genesis before they became huge in the 80's.