Reality check on Katrina

[LordofDaRing]

It seems as though several people have decided to let loose on a political blame game on this natural disaster in this forum, a lot of the same people who have fired political shots before in here then quickly, within the same posting, state "this is not the forum for this topic". In other words, you don't want anyone with a different opinion to counter your comments. I am a person who lives in an area (Slidell, LA) that is directly effected by this disaster. I was very lucky that my house came through unscathed, that is probably not the case for many fellow workers and friends in the surrounding areas, communications are still not the best right now. So the following observations are not a slam on anyone, they are based on 25 plus years of living in and around the New Orleans area, an area of diverse culture, beauty, heat/humidity, crooked politicians (one former governor is still serving a prision sentence in Texas), numerous mayors and several federal administrations from both parties:

The fact that an individual has to wait on a public official to tell them to get their family out of harms way when (at the time) a major cat 5 storm is looming in the gulf, says a lot more for that person than any public official. Aside from a small population of individuals in the city who do not own a car or are disabled, shame on these people for not leaving when they could. There was ample time. Each hurricane season the local media is full of information on how to prepare for these storms, what supplies to have on hand, evac routes, etc. The fact of the matter is, during Katrina, Mayor Nagin and Gov Blanco waited a long time to call for a mandatory evac.

The mayor got the word out to all locals who stayed to evac to the Superdome, then eventually the convention center. These areas were not equipped with water, food or blankets for emergencies. This is not the fault of FEMA. The lawlessness that occurred at these places was also not George Bush's fault. Unfortunately, as is most big cities, there is a criminal element that exists within our city. These are the same human garbage that fired upon Charity hospital, and civil engineers trying to fix the levee breeches.

The levees that protect the city, could not contain a major storm like this. This did not start the day George B took office. The New York Times, one of the Presidents biggest critics, as late as April of this year, described a bill to raise more funding to fortify the levees as a "boondoggle on the bayou". Our federal government has been aware of this problem since the 1970s and has done very little or nothing about it.

There is a law that exists on the books today that says only the govenor of the state can order in the guard in cases of emergency. This has been around since the 1870s. The term "martial law" does not exist in the state of Louisiana. Our govenor, is unfourtnately to concerned that the White House did not properly inform her of the Presidents second trip to the area. Its also not George Bush's fault that about 200 school buses that sit within plain sight of the high rise bridge in downtown New Orleans, remained exactly where they were and flooded out, instead of being moved to higher ground where they could have moved approx 20,000 people out of the city.

One sad human response is to cover ones own ass in times of crisis. The Mayor of New Orleans, Senator Mary Landrieu, and Governor Blanco have decided to do this and with the liberal media joining in have laid all of this at the feet of the president. How quick we all forget the slow FEMA response to Hurricane Andrew during the 1990s. Look at what is going on today: The army corp fixed a levee breech that was 3 football field long, thousands of people have been plucked from roofs, animals are still being saved, thousands have been taken in all over our country and given not only roofs over their heads but jobs...believe me if you ever took a tour through some of the housing projects in New Orleans, some of these people will have never lived so well. As usual Jesse Jackson has used this as his normal photo op to blame racisim for the deaths of thousands. funny how he doesn't mention all the white, italian and hispanic people in in neighboring St Bernard Parish that also have lost thier lives in the wake of this disaster.

In summary, there will be plenty of blame for all, in the wakes of thousands dead, hopefully a better city will emerge with a better and improved levee system and evac plan at both the local/federal levels. Blaming George Bush for this situation is the same as blaming him for 911, where the administration prior to his could have and should have arrested Osama Bin Laden when the Sudan government informed us of his presence in that area after the first attempt at blowing up the world trade center. I'm on a roll now, anybody else want to "bring it on"?

[classicstyxfan]

I agree with everything you just said......

I don't need to blame this one on the president, and you are correct that there is more than enough blame to go around....to the non-evacuees, and to officials on all levels of government.

I've got plenty of other axes to grind with this president anyways.

I hope that at some point this all becomes just a really bad memory for you and all those who live in the region and had their lives changed by Katrina. Mrs Classic and Me have made a donation to the Red Cross to try and help those who need it most...I hope those here who have the means to do so will also do what they can.

If coming here and venting is helpful to you at any time, by all means....do so ! while we cant truly understand what it is like to be in your shoes, we'll "listen" and support as best as we can.

-Classic

[swwskj]

Lord,

Thanks for posting what is without doubt THE post of the year. You seriously just made my going back to work tomorrow bearable. I hope you plan on being a 'regular' again.

Scott

[thebook]

It seems as though several people have decided to let loose on a political blame game on this natural disaster in this forum, a lot of the same people who have fired political shots before in here then quickly, within the same posting, state "this is not the forum for this topic". In other words, you don't want anyone with a different opinion to counter your comments. I am a person who lives in an area (Slidell, LA) that is directly effected by this disaster. I was very lucky that my house came through unscathed, that is probably not the case for many fellow workers and friends in the surrounding areas, communications are still not the best right now. So the following observations are not a slam on anyone, they are based on 25 plus years of living in and around the New Orleans area, an area of diverse culture, beauty, heat/humidity, crooked politicians (one former governor is still serving a prision sentence in Texas), numerous mayors and several federal administrations from both parties:

The fact that an individual has to wait on a public official to tell them to get their family out of harms way when (at the time) a major cat 5 storm is looming in the gulf, says a lot more for that person than any public official. Aside from a small population of individuals in the city who do not own a car or are disabled, shame on these people for not leaving when they could. There was ample time. Each hurricane season the local media is full of information on how to prepare for these storms, what supplies to have on hand, evac routes, etc. The fact of the matter is, during Katrina, Mayor Nagin and Gov Blanco waited a long time to call for a mandatory evac.

The mayor got the word out to all locals who stayed to evac to the Superdome, then eventually the convention center. These areas were not equipped with water, food or blankets for emergencies. This is not the fault of FEMA. The lawlessness that occurred at these places was also not George Bush's fault. Unfortunately, as is most big cities, there is a criminal element that exists within our city. These are the same human garbage that fired upon Charity hospital, and civil engineers trying to fix the levee breeches.

The levees that protect the city, could not contain a major storm like this. This did not start the day George B took office. The New York Times, one of the Presidents biggest critics, as late as April of this year, described a bill to raise more funding to fortify the levees as a "boondoggle on the bayou". Our federal government has been aware of this problem since the 1970s and has done very little or nothing about it.

There is a law that exists on the books today that says only the govenor of the state can order in the guard in cases of emergency. This has been around since the 1870s. The term "martial law" does not exist in the state of Louisiana. Our govenor, is unfourtnately to concerned that the White House did not properly inform her of the Presidents second trip to the area. Its also not George Bush's fault that about 200 school buses that sit within plain sight of the high rise bridge in downtown New Orleans, remained exactly where they were and flooded out, instead of being moved to higher ground where they could have moved approx 20,000 people out of the city.

One sad human response is to cover ones own ass in times of crisis. The Mayor of New Orleans, Senator Mary Landrieu, and Governor Blanco have decided to do this and with the liberal media joining in have laid all of this at the feet of the president. How quick we all forget the slow FEMA response to Hurricane Andrew during the 1990s. Look at what is going on today: The army corp fixed a levee breech that was 3 football field long, thousands of people have been plucked from roofs, animals are still being saved, thousands have been taken in all over our country and given not only roofs over their heads but jobs...believe me if you ever took a tour through some of the housing projects in New Orleans, some of these people will have never lived so well. As usual Jesse Jackson has used this as his normal photo op to blame racisim for the deaths of thousands. funny how he doesn't mention all the white, italian and hispanic people in in neighboring St Bernard Parish that also have lost thier lives in the wake of this disaster.

In summary, there will be plenty of blame for all, in the wakes of thousands dead, hopefully a better city will emerge with a better and improved levee system and evac plan at both the local/federal levels. Blaming George Bush for this situation is the same as blaming him for 911, where the administration prior to his could have and should have arrested Osama Bin Laden when the Sudan government informed us of his presence in that area after the first attempt at blowing up the world trade center. I'm on a roll now, anybody else want to "bring it on"?

nice post - everybody knew those levees couldn't withstand a category 4 hurricane, but when people stay, they take a risk and most of the time it pans out for them, this time, tragically, it didn't. every administration (local and federal for the last 50 years) is partly to blame, since by the sixties when the technology was feasible, something could have been done.

[classicstyxfan]

The Book Wrote:

"every administration (local and federal for the last 50 years) is partly to blame, since by the sixties when the technology was feasible, something could have been done"

BINGO !!!!!! Can't lay this one completely at the feet of ANYONE !

[LordofDaRing]

Thanks for the support gang. As we write now, law enforcement officers are being shot at in New Orleans. I have no sympathy for these guys when they get nailed.

[sadie65]

I think human nature will always play a role. It is the fault of everyone, and no one. We get complacent as a society until such a disaster. Then we look to cast blame. There is plenty of blame to be shared. In the meantime, let us continue to work together to help where and when we can. Tangible donations and monetary donations are always welcome.

Lord...I very much appreciate your post. It is easy for me to type because I sit in a comfortable home right now. I am relieved to read that your home was spared, and even more impressed that during this crisis, you have a calm head looking at everything around you. Your words have not been lost on me. Thanks and if all we can do is be a place to vent, please feel free to do so.

[DeeJaySTYX]

Lord, I see that you lived up to the Nickname that I have given you....Mr. Intelligence....


DeeJay....

[LordofDaRing]

Thanks again for the kind comments Sadie and Dee Jay. You know the other unfortunate thing is that we sometimes become a bunch of Robotos (an attempt to get back on topic) and want our govt to hold us by the hand in life. Simply put, no institution is big enough to do it all. Our congressional leaders have squabbled over buget funding over the last three decades and have scoffed at albiet enormous sums of money to appropriate to fix the levees. Now we will all pay in one way or another. However in thier defense, it is hard to allocate such enormous sums for "just in case scenarios", if I was a represenative from Virginia, I wouldn't pass such a thing...two months ago. That is why this blame game is futile. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from this, I hope rather than firings and head rolling a plan, a detailed plan with a quicker upfront local/federal reaction time is activated.

Living in this area for all of these years has led to complacency, last year pepole spent 17 hour evacuating to areas that normally were a 3 or 4 hour drive during hurrican Ivan. Do this once or twice with screaming kids in the car, no gas or hotels and you decide to stick it out. All sad and unfortunate.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

LordOfTheRing, thank you for your post and I'm glad to hear that you're okay.

I hope you post more and keep us updated on the situation in your area. I hope Eric will be back soon too.

We're working on getting boxes of clothes and books to take to the Fair grounds. There will be over 400 people coming up here to stay in our area. They're working on helping them for about a year, which is great!!

[wiseguy]

FIRST OFF..I TOO HAVE TWO SETS OF FRIENDS AFFECTED BY KATRINA...AND I AM A BUSH SUPPORTER. THAT BEING SAID. I HAVE NEVER HEARD SO MANY RESPECTABLE PEOPLE-INCLUDING FORMER HEADS OF GOVERNMENT, MILITARY AND AID TYPE AGENTS ALL AGREE THAT IT WAS HANDLED WRONG. NOR HAVE I EVER SEEN SO MANY AMERICANS AGREE LIKE 90% TOGETHER IN A SAME POLL THAT IT WAS HANDLED WRONG.
JUST EVEN SPEAKING OF THE NEW ORLEANS SITUATION...IT WAS NOT JST A HANDFUL WHO COULD NOT GET OUT..IT WAS THOUSANDS. MANY LEFT IN HOSPITALS, NURSING HOMES AND MILITARY HOMES. IT STARTED WITH THE MAYOR NOT DOING HIS JOB, THEN THE GOVERNOR THEN WHO KNOWS WHERE FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO AGENCIES. THE ONLY AGENCY THAT HAS DONE RIGHT SO FAR IS THE RED CROSS. THE COAST GUARD, VOLUNTEERS, MILITARY AND FOX NEWS HAVE ALL KICKED BUTT.
FEMA..THAT'S A TOUGH ONE..THERE ROLE CHANGED AFTER 9-11. THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME COMMAND IF YOU WILL. AFTER 9-11 ALL THIS HOMELAND SECURITY WAS FORMED-EVEN THOUGH DISASTERS ARE ONLY #10 ON THE LIST IT'S THERE. HEY, I BLAME THE MAYOR BIG TIME FOR HIS LACK BEFORE HAND AND THE GOVERNOR AFTER FOR HER ACTIONS, OR LACK OF THEM, BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE UP TO THE CITY ALONE TO EITHER CLEAR THOSE PEOPLE OR PUT THEM SOMEWHERE SAFE WITH FOOD AND WATER. TO SAY YOU DIDN'T KNOW FOR DAYS ABOUT THOSE AT THE CONVENTION CENTER!!!! IT WAS ON THE NEWS DAILY!! AND THIS WAS NOT THE NEWS SITTING IN SOME STUDIO GIVING US IT THE WAY THEY WANTED, THIS WAS THEM BEING OUT THERE TOO AND US SEEING IT FIRST HAND.
YOU DON'T BLAME THEM FOR NOT GETTING FOOD AND WATER TO THEM BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN OUT!!??!!??
NO ONE FROM AMERICANS TO NEWS PEOPLE TO FORMER RESPECTABLE HEADS OF THINGS HAVE EVER AGREED MORE THAT THIS WAS MESSED UP, WRONG AND DELAYED.
THERE ARE MANY WHO LIVE IN THE OTHER STATES AND CITIES TOO WHO COULD NOT GET OUT. YES, SOME CHOSE TO STAY, BUT EVEN NOW, MANY STILL HAVE NO WATER OR FOOD.
SORRY, BUT THIS ONE IS NOW ON THE GOVERNMENT TO RESPOND AND TAKE CARE OF AMERICANS.
I HAVE HAD MORE RESPECT FOR THE NEWS THIS WEEK..ESPECIALLY FOX NEWS, THAN I EVER HAD. IF NOT FOR THEM, WE NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN THE WHOLE TRUTHFUL STORY. ONE MINUTE THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING THAT THE CONVENTION CENTER IS OK, THE NEXT MINUTE, WE SEE HOW IT IS.
SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT HAVING COMPASSION FOR WHAT THOSE PEOPLE AND BABIES AND MOMMIES WERE GOING THROUGH DURING THAT TIME.
EVEN IF, EVEN IF...THEY ALL BLEW IT BY NOT LEAVING, AND THE MAYOR AND GOVERNOR BLEW IT..SO WHAT, THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTED AND GOT WORSE. WHAT, JUST BECAUSE THE MAYOR, CITIZENS AND GOVERNOR MAY HAVE DONE WRONG, DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT THE SITUATION WAS-AMERCIANS IN AMERICA WERE SUFFERING AND DIEING. PERIOD. AND THE GOVERNMENT AND AGENCIES LET IT GO ON. THE COAST GUARD, AREAS OF THE MILITARY AND FOX ROCKED DURING THAT TIME.
THE BOTTOM LINE TO MILLIONS OF AMERICANS-THEY WAITED TO LONG TO HELP THOSE THAT WE ALL SAW SUFFERING AND DIEING ON TV.
FOR YOU TO SAY IT WAS THERE FAULT FOR NOT GETTING OUT AND SO BE IT HAS GOT TO BE THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS BOARD.
I NEVER THOUGHT IN AMERICA I WOULD SEE WHAT I SAW AND IT WAS NOT A BIASED TV SHOWING IT THEIR WAY. IT'S HOW IT WAS.
THOUSANDS OF THOSE PEOPLE FOR MANY REASONS DID NOT GET OUT AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND NATIONAL GOVERNENT IS TO BLAME FOR HOW IT HAS TURNED OUT.
WHAT, YOU BLAME THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET OUT FOR THE SITUATION THEY ENDED UP IN!?
YOU MUST BE IN THE 10% THAT VOTED THEY ALL DID JUST FINE.

[sadie65]

I don't think anyone here disputes that what happened to the people in the area was devastating, or that it could have been handled better. To shout at someone who actually lives in the area and call them stupid is a bit callous in and of itself (my opinion only).

I learned a long time ago...finger pointing...equals one finger pointed at the entity you hold responsible, one finger pointed up at the intangible, and 3 fingers pointed back at yourself. In other words, it's not a good practice to point blame. It is a human thing to do though.

Hopefully we as a society will learn from this, though, sadly I doubt that.

Peace

[Monker]

WHAT, YOU BLAME THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET OUT FOR THE SITUATION THEY ENDED UP IN!?
YOU MUST BE IN THE 10% THAT VOTED THEY ALL DID JUST FINE.

I agree. It's ridiculous to place any type of 'blame' on the people who did not leave town. It's a natural disaster. It's not ANYBODY's fault that a natural disaster happens....from the President, down to the homeless guy in the streets.

But, the AFTERMATH is ALL wrong. I wonder how anybody can defend it. It's just nuts that it has taken this long to get things under control.

Have any of you even been in a natural disaster? A disaster that knocked out electricity and water for weeks, destroyed property and displaced people? When it happens in your town you don't think, "Gee, that levee shoulda been six feet higher! Damn politicians!" You are thinking about where you are going to take your next bath or how you are going to get drinking water, how long the gas in your grill will last so you can cook food, how long the food in the fridge will last because the fridge has no electricity.

Those are the things you give a damn about. Those are the things that FEMA is SUPPOSED to help out with when disaster hits.

I was in the floods of '93 here in Des Moines, when the city had a huge lake right in the middle of it. No water, no electricity for days...even when the water was turned back on, we didn't have drinking water for weeks longer.

Within a week, there was drinking water available at stations scattered on the higher ground around the city. Volunteers filled thousands of sandbags which were dropped by military helicopters to build up a levee that surroiunded the water works...or to build up a makeshift levees by the rivers.

There were even places scattered around where you could go and take a free shower...and portapottie's were everywhere too.

WITHIN A WEEK.

What happened with Katrina is INEXCUSABLE. Yeah, what happened in '93 is not the same scale as a hurricaine....but, IMO, that should have clued people in even MORE about what was needed down there.

And, just because I wanted to find something...I found this post to a listserv describing what it was like here one week after the flood of '93:
>
> Sat, 17 Jul 93
>
>The situation in the Des Moines area is improving steadily.
>There is now an adequate supply of drinking water available
>from some 30 sites in the Des Moines Metro area, but about
>250,000 people have no running water for bathing or toilet
>purposes. The lowly Kybo, that solitary sanitary fixture
>associated with construction sites and rock concerts, has
>been elevated to a much more lofty position.
>
>I hesitate to inject too much humor into our situation,
>because we are still subject to the whims of nature, but
>the rivers are receding and if we receive no more heavy
>rains we will survive. The levees have been repaired and
>fortified so that they are in many cases stronger than
>they were last weekend. The water treatment facility in
>West Des Moines is now about as secure as humanly possible.
>And the Town of Altoona (population probably a couple
>thousand) is doing an incredible job of supplying drinking
>water to the area.
>
>The water treatment facility in Des Moines has been regained
>by dropping sandbags from helicopters to form a perimeter
>that was then pumped out. That sounds a lot simpler than
>it actually is. Thousands and thousands of volunteers have
>been working around the clock to load enough sandbags. Huge
>chinook choppers are flying overhead carrying all kinds of
>equipment and mammoth military aircraft (Army? Air Force?)
>are flying in and out of the Des Moines airport constantly.
>
>Those of us who live in the flight path have developed the
>habit of listening to every distant rumbling to determine
>if it's caused by aircraft or thunder. We welcome the aircraft
>but we fear the arrival of more thunderstorms. On Tuesday
>morning we had a very intense rain that fortunately didn't
>last long enough to do us any damage. It is very difficult
>to be helpless to the elements.
>
>The amount of anxiety present is incredible. This is like
>living in a war zone. So much human effort has been expended
>in conquering the elements that a lot of people are unable
>to accept the fact that we are in a situation that we cannot
>fully control.
>
>The most remarkable aspect of this catastrophe is the determination
>of the community to provide help and assistance without any
>thought of thanks or financial reward. People have been moved
>to tears by the degree of volunteerism and self sacrifice exhibited
>by everyone. Very little looting has occured, and all local
>governments have said that anyone that is caught looting will
>be punished as severly as possible.

[LordofDaRing]

HEY WISEGUY, YOU CAN TAKE THE CAPS OFF FUTURE POSTS, NO NEED TO SHOUT, I HEAR YA. I reiterate numerous times that there will be a time and a place for blame, Nagin, Blanco, FEMA and yes George Bush. Lets just do it later, when the witchunt/investigation starts. My post certainly does not intend to mock the victims for not leaving the city when they could. But you know thousands of us did do that, and I certainly did not need to wait on the mayor as the himmed and hawed about it. How bout the nursing home in Chalmette where all the people there drowned, because there was no way out? Unfortuantely there was no plan in place to deal with the magnitude of this. Hopefully, if any good at all comes of this there will be one in place in the future, it would be naive of all of us to think that this might not happen again, remember last year in Florida.

I hope to hell you are not referring to me when you say shame on you about compassion. Hey dude, some of my friends, life long friends are still unacounted for. I have cried many times since evacuating wathcing fox news at the horror that hit my city. I AM NOT REMOVED FROM THIS HORROR. Referring back to the people who did not leave, do you realize that there are still people refusing to leave. What do you do with these people. Go door to door, maybe arrest them. then what, put them in jail, where in New Orleans? Houston? Should the policemen, national guard who also have homes and families risk their lifes for those individuals, where do you draw the line. Several police in New Orleans left their posts, abandoned their jobs, a couple supposedly committed suicide over the horror of this. This is something that nobody should have ever gone through, and for people a week afterwards to make judgments about who should have done what and how is insane. 50, 000 people in the superdome, no water, gas, electicity and a lake surrounding them. This is different than Andrew, different than 911. Just look at the gulf coast, totally devastated, but the relief came in better there. New Orleans became Lake Ponchartrain. That all being said, god bless the victims.

[froy]

It seems as though several people have decided to let loose on a political blame game on this natural disaster in this forum, a lot of the same people who have fired political shots before in here then quickly, within the same posting, state "this is not the forum for this topic". In other words, you don't want anyone with a different opinion to counter your comments. I am a person who lives in an area (Slidell, LA) that is directly effected by this disaster. I was very lucky that my house came through unscathed, that is probably not the case for many fellow workers and friends in the surrounding areas, communications are still not the best right now. So the following observations are not a slam on anyone, they are based on 25 plus years of living in and around the New Orleans area, an area of diverse culture, beauty, heat/humidity, crooked politicians (one former governor is still serving a prision sentence in Texas), numerous mayors and several federal administrations from both parties:

The fact that an individual has to wait on a public official to tell them to get their family out of harms way when (at the time) a major cat 5 storm is looming in the gulf, says a lot more for that person than any public official. Aside from a small population of individuals in the city who do not own a car or are disabled, shame on these people for not leaving when they could. There was ample time. Each hurricane season the local media is full of information on how to prepare for these storms, what supplies to have on hand, evac routes, etc. The fact of the matter is, during Katrina, Mayor Nagin and Gov Blanco waited a long time to call for a mandatory evac.

The mayor got the word out to all locals who stayed to evac to the Superdome, then eventually the convention center. These areas were not equipped with water, food or blankets for emergencies. This is not the fault of FEMA. The lawlessness that occurred at these places was also not George Bush's fault. Unfortunately, as is most big cities, there is a criminal element that exists within our city. These are the same human garbage that fired upon Charity hospital, and civil engineers trying to fix the levee breeches.

The levees that protect the city, could not contain a major storm like this. This did not start the day George B took office. The New York Times, one of the Presidents biggest critics, as late as April of this year, described a bill to raise more funding to fortify the levees as a "boondoggle on the bayou". Our federal government has been aware of this problem since the 1970s and has done very little or nothing about it.

There is a law that exists on the books today that says only the govenor of the state can order in the guard in cases of emergency. This has been around since the 1870s. The term "martial law" does not exist in the state of Louisiana. Our govenor, is unfourtnately to concerned that the White House did not properly inform her of the Presidents second trip to the area. Its also not George Bush's fault that about 200 school buses that sit within plain sight of the high rise bridge in downtown New Orleans, remained exactly where they were and flooded out, instead of being moved to higher ground where they could have moved approx 20,000 people out of the city.

One sad human response is to cover ones own ass in times of crisis. The Mayor of New Orleans, Senator Mary Landrieu, and Governor Blanco have decided to do this and with the liberal media joining in have laid all of this at the feet of the president. How quick we all forget the slow FEMA response to Hurricane Andrew during the 1990s. Look at what is going on today: The army corp fixed a levee breech that was 3 football field long, thousands of people have been plucked from roofs, animals are still being saved, thousands have been taken in all over our country and given not only roofs over their heads but jobs...believe me if you ever took a tour through some of the housing projects in New Orleans, some of these people will have never lived so well. As usual Jesse Jackson has used this as his normal photo op to blame racisim for the deaths of thousands. funny how he doesn't mention all the white, italian and hispanic people in in neighboring St Bernard Parish that also have lost thier lives in the wake of this disaster.

In summary, there will be plenty of blame for all, in the wakes of thousands dead, hopefully a better city will emerge with a better and improved levee system and evac plan at both the local/federal levels. Blaming George Bush for this situation is the same as blaming him for 911, where the administration prior to his could have and should have arrested Osama Bin Laden when the Sudan government informed us of his presence in that area after the first attempt at blowing up the world trade center. I'm on a roll now, anybody else want to "bring it on"?

Great post but I must disagree
You are correct the mayor and govenor had a job to do and did not do it well, The bottom line is Bush should have gone on TV and told the people of that city to get out, He would have been covering his ass. Instead he said not 1 damm word till 3 days after, You blame the top man and he is the top man, I said it before if a nuc was headed for N/O he would have gone on TV and said get out. A cat 5 is the same as a nuc it blew out the city,
Look at all the unabled bodies that could not get out even if they tried.
They should have been taken away period.

[LordofDaRing]

Monker:
Within a week, they have stopped the levee back up, have begun pumping the city out, have national guard in the city of New orleans, have begun restoring power to many areas in the region, are letting people back into assess the damage, have evacuated all but 10,000 people in the city...has anybody been to New Orleans, that is a hell of a lot of people they got out of there and placed all over the country, some have jobs already. Not to make light of the floods in Des Moines, Andrew, Camille or any other natrual disaster, but folks, do like wiseguy and turn on fox or CNN...this will go down as the worst thing to ever happen to our country.

[LordofDaRing]

Froy my friend, I guess he could have, but I don't think it would have mattered much. It will never be the same.

[yogi]

GREAT POSTS ALL AROUND!!! I have got to agree with Froy on this one.

Someone should of gone in BEFORE and got these people out. We knew for 3 days this catorogy 5 storm was about to slam New Orleans. It was not some major suprise.

I'm sorry but if you have got a HUGE population that is poor and uneducated you HAVE to go in and get them out. Treat em like they are 5 years old, but get them the hell out BEFORE!

Lord,

I am VERY happy you and you're family are ok. There is blame everywhere. Lets just hope we rebuild this BEAUTIFUL city, and make it better than ever. My thoughts are with all of those affected on the Gulf Coast.

[LordofDaRing]

Yogi we are all in agreement on that. New Orleans will be a great city again, saw many a concert down there, including the famous/infamous Kilroy was Here, where they actually shot the footage for Caught In The Act right there at the Saenger Theater on Canal Street. Funny thing, if you talk to people that you grew up with around three, that is like a mini woodstock, in the comparison, that EVERYBODY claims they were there...."look for me, thats me when Tommy runs through the audience"...uh huh. Thats the ticket.

[wiseguy]

Nice post Monker. Interesting read. As I wake up today and think about all of this, one or two things really come to mind.
No matter who's fault it was for not getting out, or getting people out ahead of time, it's these two things that really way in the front of my mind. The levee breaking is what really made things worse in New Orleans. No matter all the years, who knew what or who didn't do what doesn't really matter. What really matters to me is that for days Americans were suffering. PERIOD. No matter for what reason or who's faults and after 9-11 the GOVERNMENT has created many more things and taken over many more things so they are to blame for letting those people sit out in the hot sun for days with babies under horrible conditions with no food or water.
I am not thinking much about who warned who a year ago what was going to happen, who didn't get who out ahead of time or who stayed becasue they couldn't get out. I cannot forget the images that FOX was showing for those days via Shep and Geraldo. Again, this was not some biased media sitting in a studio giving us THEIR view, this was the way it was as our eyes saw.
Then, many others in other areas of the states are telling stories to of no help, even still today.
Listen, thousands all over those three states were not able to get out. Many elderly and sick. Saying that people had a chance to get out so it's their fault for the situation they are in-what about those at the hospitals who could not get out and those who chose to stay behind to help them and what they went through for those days. What the news showed doesn't even cover 90% of the hell they went through.
It's not like I want to see heads roll, but I do want answers.

[sadie65]

While the whole event and its aftermath are very tragic, I cannot easily dismiss the decisions made that helped these events occur. I am not looking to blame anyone. Certainly those in hospitals, children, invalids, elderly would and did have little choice as to their fate. But I do think others who opted to stay when they could have left (and those are the only ones I am addressing here) need to accept their own share of responsibility. There are people who are still unwilling to leave.

The decisions to not address the warnings, the decisions to not move faster to get the people out, and so on and so on...they all play a role in this.

As for what we see on television, I am sorry, Fox, for me, is the leader in sensationalism. We as a people are desensitized. That is tragic. We hear every day about horrific events happening. We watch, we make the appropriate comments, and we move on. When the disaster is epic as this one is, then we take notice. I sincerely hope we as a people learn from this. My hunch though is once this over, we will go on until the next disaster and then we will all collectively cry foul. It is the nature of humans to do so.

I am saddened that we still look to divide and argue. I am equally saddened that so many want to cast blame without recognizing their own culpability in this. And I wish the people whose lives were disrupted in such a horrific way, some help and peace in the weeks and months to come.

Peace

[yak]

I'm on a roll now, anybody else want to "bring it on"?

Lord, every word in your post is totally true right down to the last comment made about 9-11, and goes with everything of the hurricane coverage I have been watching on TV. Fox has shown both sides, but seems to show more people who are grateful to be alive than the other stations, who seem to find people who want to blame the President.

From what I saw, the locals, specifically The Mayor of New Orleans, Senator Mary Landrieu, and Governor Blanco, didn't do their job, thus making it harder for The Guard and everybody else to come in and do theirs. Governor Blanco was on a national TV press conference the day the hurricane made landfall, in essence wringing her hands because she didn't know what to do.

The Mayor of New Orleans was constantly whining that President Bush was at fault (so many people taught to rely only on government and not think for themselves, which keeps these jackasses in power). Said mayor did not lift a finger to get busses to the people to evacuate them out before the fact, and as I understand it initially issued a voluntary evacuation. Governor Blanco (her last name fits her to a T) never bothered to call up the Guard in her state. The reason they are blaming President Bush shows a feeble attempt to clear their own behinds and not look like the bad guys.

Clinton is touring with the President's father to "fund raise"(somebody tell W that this is a mistake) and had the audacity to say "This is not the time for finger-pointing" He may have said that because the people from his own party are the guilty ones. Kind of funny since his news networks were pointing the finger at the President.

I heard of people refusing to get on helicopters because they couldn't take their pets.
I find it incredible that people leave their pets behind, thinking they will remain safe, and that although there are some organizations helping the pets, more needs to be done.

At any rate, it's good to know you are OK, and I hope people have the sense to vote these morons out of office when election day rolls around. I heard one guy say "They know where the 'hood is when they want votes!" Hold that thought, mister.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Kind of funny since his news networks were pointing the finger at the President.

Your insane.
HIS new networks?!?!?

As an admitted political TV junkie, I can honestly say there is nothing flagrantly liberal about ANY of the existing cable news channels out there.

[classicstyxfan]

Yak said:

Clinton is touring with the President's father to "fund raise"(somebody tell W that this is a mistake)

So you put your own personal hatred of a former president ahead of his ability to show the country that people from all sides of the political spectrum are united in the desire to help those whose lives have been devistated by hurricane Katrina ? or perhaps I misunderstand your meaning.........PLEASE explain why this is a mistake !

Yak Also said: ( re Clinton )

".........and had the audacity to say "This is not the time for finger-pointing"


Yeah......what gall to suggest that finger pointing can wait til later and we should focus on helping the hundreds of thousands of people who need help 1st........Imagine actually SAYING that ???

More from Yak"

"He may have said that because the people from his own party are the guilty ones."


Yep, always the Democrats fault.......Members of the Bush 41, Reagan, Ford, and Nixon administrations never had an opportunity to fortify the N.O Levee sysems......Blame should be placed squarely on the Clinton and Carter Administrations

Yak - "Kind of funny since his news networks were pointing the finger at the President."

COOL ! Can you tell me what Dish Network channel I can find the President Clinton News Network ? It's gotta be better than that network
with the ( if you are a complete right wing zombie you are gullible enough to believe we are ) "Fair and Balanced" slogan.

Yak, Turn off the Limbaugh and O'Reilly crap for a few minutes so you can see the real world......Clinton is NOT Satan, just a really horny guy who has a lot of charisma....that may very well influince people to open their wallets to help their fellow man......He's out of office now, he can't enact policy anymore....If you need a Clinton to attack, Hilary is the more logical choice....She just may be the one to hurt your cause the most in the future.

Unless you are happier attacking and less concerned with helping those who need it. [b]

[bugsymalone]

I really hate getting into this stuff, because it never gets resolved.

I will simply say this:

Two men were asked by the President of the United States to help spearhead the fundraising for tsunami relief. That they were ex-presidents themselves gave them world-wide recognition and clout. That they bonded and did a steller job together in working on this task is a fact.

They have been asked to perform the same task for Hurricane Katrina relief by the same President. Busy men though they are, both happily complied and are already making an impact.

Bill Clinton is recovering from serious heart surgery and George Bush Senior is in his 80's. Both are working selflessly and tirelessly on this new project.

That they can put away differences and work together in good faith and with a bond of friendship and trust should be an example for us all

End of story.

Bugsy

[classicstyxfan]

NO ! Bugsy, you got it all wrong !

Clinton is the Antichrist !

The levees used to be able to handle a level 5 hurricane.....until CLINTON and his gang of EVIL, 'MERICA hatin L-I-B-E-R-A-L minions went in with their shovels , and lowered the wall to it's present capacity.

Yeah, MEGA DITTOS ALL AROUND , BABY !!!

The man ( Clinton ) stands for everything un-american...I know, cus RUSH told me ! It was just a case of lousy luck that the economy did so well, and the Government ran at a surplus during his 2 terms, and even lousier luck that none of that continued when we took over...

You know, It's great to have Rush and Bill O'Reilly around, cus I haven't had to have an independant thought in nearly 15 years ! It's so clear cut, I cant understand why everyone doesnt see it !!! Liberals are BAD...All people who make less than $100,000 a year are Lazy, and dont deserve any help from the government..........

So remember....Clinton = EVIL !

[thebook]

GREAT POSTS ALL AROUND!!! I have got to agree with Froy on this one.

Someone should of gone in BEFORE and got these people out. We knew for 3 days this catorogy 5 storm was about to slam New Orleans. It was not some major suprise.

I'm sorry but if you have got a HUGE population that is poor and uneducated you HAVE to go in and get them out. Treat em like they are 5 years old, but get them the hell out BEFORE!

it's not that easy though to move a half million people in a 130 square miles in 3 days, by just letting the local and federal govt do the moving. the people themselves have to move, hell there were people who didn't want to move when help came after the flooding, what can you do? these people have lived there for years, they know they live in a place where hurricanes hit and can be devasting, at the first sign of a cat 5, everybody should be moving, but that's not the way it works, people stay and think it's not going to be that bad or i've been here 40 years and they haven't hit too bad yet. hopefully everybody will realize now not to take a cat 4/5 hurricane for granted, because clearly that was what happened, from the local officials to the people in the city who stayed and who could have gotten away.

[wiseguy]

The press had it right with Rumsfeld and General Myers today. Bottom line no matter who messed up before or who didn't get out-why did it take so long to get those people at least food and water. AND why do some areas STILL not have this or help!
Please do whatever you can to help. May it be $$$$$$, time, taking someone in, helping the animals, or donating something.
Whatever has happened and why, it has and it's bad and sad.

[LordofDaRing]

Book you got that right.

Shame on all people who have held office in Washington for the last 30 years, white house and congress, for hearing these projections read to them and not appropriating the proper funding to fix those levees.

Wiseguy, I will agree with you on your comments about Fox news. I don't know if any one network completely slants to the left or not, but if anyone thinks Dan Rather, The NY times (look at that blatant lie they told on Geraldo Rivera today), the LA times, The Washington Post or the Hollywood community in general is "fair and balanced", they are sadly mistaken.

[Zan]

Interesting thread. While I agree that the ones who OPTED not to leave for whatever reason should accept some responsibility for their fate (whatever that means), I can't help but wonder how legitimate they felt their reasons were at the time (some here have touched on good points). NOBODY expected the catastrophe that Katrina brought. NO ONE expected that levee to give the way it did, which is what caused the majority of the flooding problems. I do think it's a crying shame that it took 4 DAYS for real help to arrive for those people. Wherever the "blame" lies, the rescue efforts were pathetic at best.

Yet, I can't help but feel this is another tragic case of what happens when man puts too much faith in his own creations and dismisses the power of nature. It seems to me that the people of Louisiana had a more confidence in the levee's abilities than nature's. With all of our advanced technologies, the Gulf coast doesn't look much different than Bangladesh and Singapore last year. The entire situation is riddled with complacency - and awe. The Titanic comes to mind.

Believe me, I'm not saying any of those people deserved what happened. It's a horrible, horrible ordeal, and one I'm sure we'll not forget too soon. My ex husband's entire family lives in the N.O. area. It has always been a second home town to me. John spent literally days looking for his 96 yr old grandmother, who had been discharged from a hospital 2 days after Katrina hit with no further information given. His sister had to leave her cats in an area was later under water. And they're some of the luckier ones.

I only hope we can learn from this and have a little more respect for the forces of nature then we do ourselves.

That said, I am SO HAPPY to learn that all of those here who were affected by Katrina are OK and accounted for. Everyone should hug their families and be grateful to have each other. Some of those stories were unimaginably heartbreaking.

And the media can bite my ass.