Reality check on Katrina

[wiseguy]

[quote="ZanAnd the media can bite my ass."[/quote]


Are you kidding me after this past week? Have you not been seriously watching the news as often as you can this past week?! Especially the live coverage from FOX and CNN? Especiall from Anderson 'Coop'er, 'Shep'ard Smith & Geraldo. Then what people like Larry King and Bill O'Reily are doing to bring attention and raise money. The media has been at it's best this past week than I have ever seen them. Bringing attention and awareness to. Especially the live coverage. They didn't have to be there, but they were, not in their cushy air conditoined offices, but they were there, some like Anderson Cooper still are. Right there in the mix. If not for Bill O'Reily, Shep and Geraldo not only would some things not have happened , but we'd only know the story some want us to know. Again, this was not the media giving us their opinion from the studios, they made us see it for ourselves.
Geeze people, is this really how umcompassionable Styx fans are? Funny, this is the one things out of everything you guys fight about that you have basically all agreed on. Shame on you!
Someone said it brilliantly tonight. The people we are counting on in times of terrorism still are not as of tonight getting help out to many areas.
If it was not for the media, especially the tv media this past week, we'd not a clue people! Nor would we get to hear what many, who's opinion should be considered, have to say!
The people who are helping put families together can 'bite your ass!'
What, are you all living in a arrogant world until something really bad happens to you!

[Zan]

[quote="ZanAnd the media can bite my ass."

Are you kidding me after this past week? Have you not been seriously watching the news as often as you can this past week?! Especially the live coverage from FOX and CNN? Especiall from Anderson 'Coop'er, 'Shep'ard Smith & Geraldo. Then what people like Larry King and Bill O'Reily are doing to bring attention and raise money. The media has been at it's best this past week than I have ever seen them. Bringing attention and awareness to. Especially the live coverage. They didn't have to be there, but they were, not in their cushy air conditoined offices, but they were there, some like Anderson Cooper still are. Right there in the mix. If not for Bill O'Reily, Shep and Geraldo not only would some things not have happened , but we'd only know the story some want us to know. Again, this was not the media giving us their opinion from the studios, they made us see it for ourselves.
Geeze people, is this really how umcompassionable Styx fans are? Funny, this is the one things out of everything you guys fight about that you have basically all agreed on. Shame on you!
Someone said it brilliantly tonight. The people we are counting on in times of terrorism still are not as of tonight getting help out to many areas.
If it was not for the media, especially the tv media this past week, we'd not a clue people! Nor would we get to hear what many, who's opinion should be considered, have to say!
The people who are helping put families together can 'bite your ass!'
What, are you all living in a arrogant world until something really bad happens to you![/quote]


I sort of see what you're saying, but if you honestly think that half these reporters would rather be in their "air conditioned offices" than out their exploiting the misfortune of others on an extravagant level like this, you're out of your mind. They were probably scatching each others' eyes out for the first plane tickets to Louisiana when this happened. If the media used their time for the sole purpose of "putting families together," then I would commend them, but they don't, and when they actually DO, it's always accompanied by a self-commending pat on the back so the word can see how compassionate they are. It's been that way for quite some time now, and this week was no different from most of what I've seen.

I watched my local news show LIVE FOOTAGE of a man as he watched his entire family burn to death in their home, while his friends held him back from running in to save them. Then, less than 30 seconds later, they did a story on wounded soldiers in Iraq (flesh wounds, being carried out on gurneys, etc), and had the audacity to say "we must warn you, some of this footage might be disturbing." F*cktards. Yes, I've watched more than my fair share of "news" this past week, and I think at least 70% of it is appalling. Especially FOX. I would love to see a complete overhaul of the news system. Perhaps, just perhaps, this hurricane disaster was horrid enough to shake them out of their self-fulfilling worlds, but I won't hold my breath. If it bleeds, it leads.

But FWIW, I'm sure they share your belief that they are next in line for sainthood.

[wiseguy]

It may not be the time to be 'pointing fingers' or putting it into that phrasing, but you better believe now is the time, while still doing what needs to be done to help/fix the current situation, to find out what went wrong and what is STILL going wrong. Folks, this is not just the media making things look a certain way...especially not with the live interviews. When what happened is #10 on the Homeland Securities list of disasters and it still is not being handled properly, yes, there needs to be an investigation right now. Not only do we need to be worried about how the government and agencies under it can handle things like this and worse, we need to realize that we are in a way volnurable right now, so what will happen if something else happens soon? They didn't handle this too well and have many resources tide up in this right now. Good luck if something else happens. Let's even put aside resources that are tied up right now, even though of course there still are many, face it, a lot being used right now. How can you not right now start finding out what went wrong and with who. We need to be prepared bette right now and ready for the next bad thing. No matter what, deep down everyone knows that it was not handled properly and it still is very unorganized. To say that right now is not the time makes me think that they think it all went pretty ok and still is so there's no rush righ now in case something else happens.
Keep saying that it had nothing to do with too many being oversees, as you continue now to pull more out of Iraq to the gulf region.

[onestilllearning]

NO ! Bugsy, you got it all wrong !

Clinton is the Antichrist !

The levees used to be able to handle a level 5 hurricane.....until CLINTON and his gang of EVIL, 'MERICA hatin L-I-B-E-R-A-L minions went in with their shovels , and lowered the wall to it's present capacity.

Yeah, MEGA DITTOS ALL AROUND , BABY !!!

The man ( Clinton ) stands for everything un-american...I know, cus RUSH told me ! It was just a case of lousy luck that the economy did so well, and the Government ran at a surplus during his 2 terms, and even lousier luck that none of that continued when we took over...

You know, It's great to have Rush and Bill O'Reilly around, cus I haven't had to have an independant thought in nearly 15 years ! It's so clear cut, I cant understand why everyone doesnt see it !!! Liberals are BAD...All people who make less than $100,000 a year are Lazy, and dont deserve any help from the government..........

So remember....Clinton = EVIL !

I would say great post, but me thinks you might be waxing a bit sarcastic.

[classicstyxfan]

OSL, what's Sarcasm ???

[onestilllearning]

In 1998 the state of LA HAD 2,000,000.00 (THAT BILLION) designated for state construction projects. How much went to shoring up the levees? Less than 1/10th of 1%. But if the wind blows the wrong way and you guys blame Bush. - Look I think extreme librilism and extreme conservitism are both bad. Unfortunately the extreme is more interesting than moderate thats why the media has talking heads that represent both extremes, it sells. Do I listen to Rush ? Yes. Do I agree with him? Sometimes but he's such an egotistical wind bag I tune in more for laughs. Did I vote for Bush? Yes, was their a choice? I dislike a lot of his polocies like his stance on immagration and border control, He was wrong about the WMD's although I DO NOT BELIEVE HE LIED and his tactical handling of the war is all wrong. You do not use troops when you can drop daisy cutters. All wars have collateral damage am I wrong prefer those deaths be innocent Iraq citizens over US Troops?

[yak]

Let's deal in some facts here:


President Bush declared Louisiana a disaster area two days before the hurricane struck the New Orleans area.

President Bush urged New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco to order the mandatory evacuation that was issued on Sunday, August 28.

First responders to a disaster are always state and local emergency agencies. FEMA is there to supplement the state and local activities.

The hurricane threatened an area as large as 90,000 square miles covering three states. Immediate relief could not possibly have been delivered to all the places that required attention.

An AP photo showed a large fleet of New Orleans buses soaking in six feet of water.

The mayor apparently had the means to evacuate many of the folks who ended up stranded at the Superdome and the convention center.

FEMA began its activities immediately, not expecting the magnitude of the flooding, the non-response at the city and state level, and the anarchy that resulted.

The local and state governments had rehearsed for a different scenario. Disaster drills in New Orleans had taken place, but with a false assumption that the levees would hold.

Both the law and protocol prohibit the president from ordering military troops into a state without a formal request to do so from the governor of the affected state.

[onestilllearning]

Let's deal in some facts here:


President Bush declared Louisiana a disaster area two days before the hurricane struck the New Orleans area.

President Bush urged New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco to order the mandatory evacuation that was issued on Sunday, August 28.

First responders to a disaster are always state and local emergency agencies. FEMA is there to supplement the state and local activities.

The hurricane threatened an area as large as 90,000 square miles covering three states. Immediate relief could not possibly have been delivered to all the places that required attention.

An AP photo showed a large fleet of New Orleans buses soaking in six feet of water.

The mayor apparently had the means to evacuate many of the folks who ended up stranded at the Superdome and the convention center.

FEMA began its activities immediately, not expecting the magnitude of the flooding, the non-response at the city and state level, and the anarchy that resulted.

The local and state governments had rehearsed for a different scenario. Disaster drills in New Orleans had taken place, but with a false assumption that the levees would hold.

Both the law and protocol prohibit the president from ordering military troops into a state without a formal request to do so from the governor of the affected state.

Wow !!! "Sometimes I feel like a man in the wilderness" but your post says everything I wanted to say but did not want to take the time to write becouse although I love you guys (regular posters) to death and we share a common interest in Styx on this Katrina and who is responible issue I have yet to find someone with a opinion that aggrees with me.

Thanks Yak!!!!! Well stated

[The_Noble_Cause]

He was wrong about the WMD's although I DO NOT BELIEVE HE LIED

Unfortunately for us, your "beliefs" and "feelings" are NOT facts. The leaked Downing Street Memo obliterated what very little (if any) credibility Bush had left. The guy lied -Plain and simple.
Even the most staunchest of Republican blow hards have long ago learned to come to grips with that.

[sadie65]

Can you move this to the political forum please?

I think it would be prudent to do so right about now.

[classicstyxfan]

Congratulations.....you've successfully placed blame ! whoo f'n hoo!

I'm sure before you spent all of that energy on that effort you had long before pulled out your checkbook and did something CONSTRUCTIVE to help the victims, so I won't make any disparaging comments that would suggest otherwise.

But it would really suck to have to try to sleep at night with all that blame stuff stuck in your head, knowing deep down you had seen all of the suffering on TV but hadn't lifted a finger to help, wouldn't it ?

[thebook]

Please do whatever you can to help. May it be $$$$$$, time, taking someone in, helping the animals, or donating something.
Whatever has happened and why, it has and it's bad and sad.

I agree, I did make a donation to the red cross for Katrina relief. (and I expect to be making another donation in about 4 months via my insurance company, since I expect my rates to rise, the same as they did after hugo, i think it was hugo.)

[onestilllearning]

OK my post was lost and probably for the best. Be careful what you say Classic you can cause alot of pain.

[classicstyxfan]

OSL, Of course you are right, all I am saying is
( and I'M NOT implying that this is true about ANYONE who posts here, because I'd have no way of knowing )

People who point fingers but wont lift one to help.....Suck ! and "if the shoe fits" someone here, or anywhere else for that matter, and if my words hurt their feelings, well, it's nice to know they have some !

feelings, that is....

[LordofDaRing]

As a resident of Louisiana, I can tell you any dollars to appropriate fixing antyhing in the last 20 or so years, with the likes of Edwin Edwards, Mayor Morial, or Cleo Fields at the helm probably never got to where it was suppose to go. Fast Eddie is still serving his sentence out, how Cleo Fields is not in jail with the video tape evidence of him accepting bribes is beyond me, and the moron morial who ran the city before Nagin....wow don't get me started. According to that genious, you had to live in New Orleans to work in New Orleans, putting hundreds of commuters out of jobs. His admin also lost millions in road repair funding because of a paperwork oversight. The jury is still out on Blanco and Nagin, obviously as all of you non residents can see...they are not off to a good start. In fact, I am not sure the two are speaking to each other today.

[swwskj]

After the last week, I am struck by one thing. A natural disaster, one in which we should focus our attention to those displaced or killed, has done more to rend this board than anything Styx related possibly could. Just goes to show that politics or religion should never be discussed amongst friends.

Are we friends? I think so. I have come to 'know' many of you over the past few years. Bugsy, Suite, Froy, Yogi, PsychoSy, Lordofdaring, Sadie65, Classic, Zan et al... I have had public and private conversations with all of you. We all hurt for the destruction of a great american city. We want to place blame, express our anger etc... But, we have turned on each other and that is sad. If posting our frustration helps, then I think it's appropriate. Hopefully this all helps with the healing process.

I was a hairs breath away from pissing off this board for awhile, but now my resolve is stronger than ever. We will move past this and so will the great city of New Orleans. I still believe that our similarities outweigh our differences.

Have a great night,

Scott

[PsychoSy]

In other words, you don't want anyone with a different opinion to counter your comments.

Not at all. I don't want people to end what respect or friendship they have for one another on this board by picking one thing to hate about a person and just blowing it out of purportion. Such a thing is called the "divide and conquer" strategy and Karl Rove is a master at it.

Aside from a small population of individuals in the city who do not own a car or are disabled, shame on these people for not leaving when they could. There was ample time.

The average walking speed is 3 miles per hour. At a jog, it's 12 miles per hour. At a dead run, the average speed is 25 miles per hour. These speeds are dependent on a number of things with age and physical condition being the most important. Can a 4 year old child run 25 miles per hour on their short little legs? NO! Can a 60 or 70 year old woman with osteopirosis run 25 miles per hour?!? NO! People want to put a lot of blame and personal responsibility on the poor, the elderly, and the very young on not being able to run away from New Orleans by using the same rhetoric you're using. But notice what's missing? What's missing is the personal responsbility of this very Republic -- a free republic. People are FREE here ... but the inverse cost of freedom is responsibility and I'm seeing way too many people spin their own wheels to absolve themselves of their responsibility towards helping their fellow American in their dire need of help. While some people are saying, "There was ample time for these people to get out! Shame on them!" I'm saying, "Shame on you for you had just as much ample time to get in your car or stir up your community to get down there and help your fellow man, woman and child get out of there!" Some people dropped their politics and their personal beliefs (imagine that?) in order to do just that and were turned away by FEMA. But at least they did it. At least they showed their responsibility towards their fellow American by getting off their duffs and doing something.

When he was asked what kind of government would take place here in America, Benjamin Franklin responded, "a Republic if you can keep it". Notice the latter part -- "if you can keep it". He and our forefathers read Plato's "Republic" and placed the responsbility on keeping this Republic to US because they wanted to avoid recreating the ending they read from Plato's own work -- an ending where the fabled Republic desolved due to selfishness, greed, apathy, and lack of responsibility. That's exactly the problem with our Republic now -- we know our politicians are corrupt and bogus but we don't care. As long as we get a tax-cut, a decent economy, a job, some big honking gas-guzzleing vehicle that we really don't need but will buy anyone because we want to pretend that were something we're not in exchange for looks of envy or pride among the public (e.g. "Oh, the Jones' have an SUV! Bless their heart!") or some electronic gadget that makes bleeps and bloops, we could care less what happens to our fellow Americans in Detroit, what happens to our fellow Americans in Sioux Falls, what happens to our fellow Americans anywhere. Somewhere, somehow, we the America people BS'ed ourselves into thinking that as long as we vote and pay our taxes, our reponsibility to keeping this Republic has been met. That's a crock! If our forefathers had that attitude, we'd be sipping wine in toast to the Queen or rolling on leaderhozen right now and it's very apathetic "can't do/don't wanna do" mentality among the German people of the 1930s that allowed fascism to take roost and give us all Hitler. I know, I know -- alot of people drag up Hitler comparisons these days but the one thing none of them do is point out the real root of his rise and/or point out the atmosphere of that time: Fascism comes to exist and maintains its existance within a vacuum of denial, specifically a vacuum of denial among the people. In other words, the Italians said, "Hah! It can't happen here!" and it did happen with Mousilini. The Germans said, "Hah! It can't happen here!" and it did happen with Hitler. The Muslims said, "Hah!" It can't happen with us" and it did with the ayahtollahs. And we've been saying, "Hah! It can't happen here!" and it HAS been happening here. We've been electing virtual dictators with only 50% or so of the entire electorate for roughly 30-40 years now. Each of them has "tossed us a bone" to keep us mollified and happy in our own press-shus habitat and to heck with anybody else.

And yet every year, we complain about the politicians. These politicians didn't fall out of the sky. They came from us -- the public. Therefore, if they suck, we must suck alot worse because who voted for 'em anyway? Who pays their salary? We do. The burden of keeping this Republic is on the people -- US. Therefore, if we break it by electing selfish Americans who only care about themselves and their friends and their corporate donors, we broke it and we own it. It's our responsbility.

The term "martial law" does not exist in the state of Louisiana.

Agreed. Mayor Nagin shows his own incompetence by declaring something not mandated in the state Constitution. In the end, I believe quote simply the government failed utterly at all levels - local, state, and federal - and it must be abolished and replaced. Nagin needs to go. Blanco needs to go. Brown & Chertoff needs to go, Bush & Cheney need to go, the Republican "ownership society" needs to go, and much of the Democratic opposition (HAH!) needs to go. The whole elected system needs to be flushed down the Potomac. I want to see Republicans running against Republicans in 2006/2008 and Democrats running against Democrats, too. We need an all new fresh guard to replace the opptunitisic "career politicians" we're paying for now. No bias, no favoritism. Just a violent jerk of the toilet handle that screams "REFORM!" from the American people.

the liberal media

There's where you lose me. Why? Because there is no "liberal media". That's the big canard that both the Republican CEOs and the Republican politicans truck out to keep people's minds enslaved and distracted (with shark attacks and runaway brides) from the truth so that they can keep their exhorbant ad rates just as high as their Neilsens. The truth is our media is an opportunisitic money-grubbing media and will do or say anything that reflects popular opinion in order to keep the public tuned in.

You can study it for yourselves ... hell, history itself proves it. When Clinton had his high approval ratings, the media wouldn't touch him. Why? Because doing so might offend the couch potato! An offended couch potato turns the channel. These media networks don't want you to get pissed and turn the channel -- c'mon, they're owned by multinational corporations with direct ties to the Hollywood Film/Entertainment industry and that industry wants to keep viewers ENTERTAINED first; informed dead last. CNN is owned by AOL/Time-Warner (Warner Bros. entertainment), ABC is owned by Disney (cartoon/family based enterainment). FOX is owned by News Corp who also owns 20th Century Fox (the movie empire). MSNBC is partly owned by NBC - one of the big three networks. What's their angle? Entertainment! That's all. Keep people entertained!

How do you that? The best way to keep people entertained and tuned in is to simply follow the Vince McMahon approach -- give the people what they want! If the polls show that 50% or more Americans love their President, then those channels will reflect it by carrying the President and his politcal party's water. If the polls ever drop to around 40% or less, these channels will go for broke and stop carrying his water because the polls reflect that the American people are starting to believe he sucks and therefore don't want to carry the water anymore in case the couch potatos get mad and turn the channel. So, they change their product in order to keep the people tuned in.

In fact, they HAVE to because most of those companies are publicaly traded with shareholders and it's against SEC laws for a corporation to run against the interest of the shareholders. Shareholders want money. The political leanings of the shareholders mean nothing because they want a return on their investment. They can't get that unless the people are happily entertained and stay tuned in. It's all about $$$ and ratings and the best way to rake in both is by giving the people what they want based on public-opinion polls and feedback. It's a win-win situation -- the shareholders make money and the couch potato is entertained and not turning the channel.

Consider the last 6-8 months -- Bush's approval ratings were in the upper 50s/low 60% in January. Ever since March, Bush has been losing the moderates and most polls now show his approval ratings to be in the 40s. Some polls are as low as the upper 30s. The CEOs at all the networks and 24/7 news channels think, "Damn, the people think he's a lame duck! I better reflect that in our product so they'll stay tuned in!" and that's what happening now. It's all about making money off what the people deem popular - politics be damned.

[yak]

Sorry Sadie, but I was called on what I said, so I posted facts. The thread title says "Reality check." That means the good as well as the bad.

Classsicstyxfan, YES, of course I have helped monetarily....giving to the very organizations who are out in the trenches feeding hot meals to these displaced people. I wouldn't send a pimple to his corrupt city government.

Man, some of you are a tough crowd to talk to.

One other comment...Nagin is up for election soon, so of course he's covering his disgusting behind.

Thanks, onestilllearning. (aren't we all?) Your post wasn't lost at all.

[classicstyxfan]

After the last week, I am struck by one thing. A natural disaster, one in which we should focus our attention to those displaced or killed, has done more to rend this board than anything Styx related possibly could. Just goes to show that politics or religion should never be discussed amongst friends.

Are we friends? I think so. I have come to 'know' many of you over the past few years. Bugsy, Suite, Froy, Yogi, PsychoSy, Lordofdaring, Sadie65, Classic, Zan et al... I have had public and private conversations with all of you. We all hurt for the destruction of a great american city. We want to place blame, express our anger etc... But, we have turned on each other and that is sad. If posting our frustration helps, then I think it's appropriate. Hopefully this all helps with the healing process.

I was a hairs breath away from pissing off this board for awhile, but now my resolve is stronger than ever. We will move past this and so will the great city of New Orleans. I still believe that our similarities outweigh our differences.

Have a great night,

Scott

Hey Scott, and everyone else on this board, I'm OK with each and every one of you.....even those who I completely disagree with....Personally, I truly enjoy a little discourse of this nature, but will agree with those who feel this isnt the place for it. I don't THINK I attacked anyone personally, if my comments were interpreted as such by anyone, well.....for that I am sorry. Yes, I lean Liberal in many of my beliefs, but have many friends who are far to the right of me in theirs. If politics is too sensitive of a subject for this board, thats fine, It's just once you get me going........so, if there are any fences I need to mend, PM me and lets do it privately.

and dont forget to thank God, or if you dont believe in God than thank your lucky stars that you are safe, sheltered and are living the good life tonight.

as my friend Sadie likes to say.......Peace. -Classic[/b]

[sadie65]

I don't believe I singled you out for your comments. I believe that this thread has long since deteriorated to name calling and finger pointing in general. I fully understand the human psyche and our need to assign blame.

I have no problem with political discussions, in a political setting. And i even understand that sometimes life events cause such polarity amongst people it spills over onto a chat board about a rock band.

At what point though do we all recognize that despite our differences, I do believe we all care a great deal about what happened and how we can help. Sure I would like to think that some permanent change for the good will come from this tragic disaster. That takes a whole different mindset from a whole lot of people.

Having seen many of the comments here, I am saddened that political ideaology has brought us here.

The reality here is that people died, people are homeless, lives have been drastically changed (a gross understatement to be sure). Some will pitch in and physically help, some will send monetary or tangible donations, some will do nothing. Options will be looked at as to how best rebuild. Investigations will be opened. Some will agree with the findings, others will cry foul. And if we're all lucky, we'll all get to continue typing on a chat board about a rock band.

I think we've all made our feelings here known. I just thought perhaps it was time to respect each other enough to agree to disagree. None of us has all the answers, but I'd like to think that we can accept and respect each other enough to stop name calling and finger pointing at each other.

Carry on.

[ek88]

Great post, Sadie.

[PsychoSy]

Let's deal in some facts here:

Right off the bat, I get the impression judging by the sheer size and boldness of the text, what were about to get is something other than facts. When I see this, I brace myself for either (1) an oversimplified sensationalized opinion that starves for attention and credibility that was most likely gleaned from Rush Limbaugh and/or Sean Hannity's radio show and cobbled together by the bearer of the opinion using the best of their memory (2) word-for-word Partyline Talking Points.

Let's see what we have here.

President Bush declared Louisiana a disaster area two days before the hurricane struck the New Orleans area.

President Bush urged New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco to order the mandatory evacuation that was issued on Sunday, August 28.

First responders to a disaster are always state and local emergency agencies. FEMA is there to supplement the state and local activities.

The hurricane threatened an area as large as 90,000 square miles covering three states. Immediate relief could not possibly have been delivered to all the places that required attention.

An AP photo showed a large fleet of New Orleans buses soaking in six feet of water.

The mayor apparently had the means to evacuate many of the folks who ended up stranded at the Superdome and the convention center.

FEMA began its activities immediately, not expecting the magnitude of the flooding, the non-response at the city and state level, and the anarchy that resulted.

The local and state governments had rehearsed for a different scenario. Disaster drills in New Orleans had taken place, but with a false assumption that the levees would hold.

Both the law and protocol prohibit the president from ordering military troops into a state without a formal request to do so from the governor of the affected state.

Ahhh, nearly word-for-word GOP talking points, one of which is a blatant lie that I believe it was either the Washington Post or the NY Post (can't remember which at the moment) printed at the behest of a "White House official" (read: Rove/Bartlett/Press Flak) that the paper had to retract later because it was false.

Instead of tearing these apart myself (don't want to be here all morning ), I think it's best to simply counter these GOP talking points with a timeline from a liberal source and let the readers here discern the truth for themselves by the age old process of seperating the wheat from the chaff. Thing is my source isn't really "liberal" -- he's actually conservative (libertarian, if you want to be technical) and only deals in the truth. His name is Larry C. Johnson, formerly of the CIA & the State Department. He has a blog entitled "No Quarter" ...

http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/

So, here's Larry C. Johnson's "Katrina Timeline" ...

Friday, August 26, 2005 -- Governor of Louisiana declares state of emergency...

http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005%20%20proc ... atrina.pdf)

-- Saturday morning, August 27, 2005 -- Governor of Louisiana asks President Bush to declare a state of emergency and requests Federal Assistance "to save lives and property".

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Rel ... equest.pdf

Note: the letter was published on 27 August 2005 on Lexis Nexis but was dated 28 August 2005. Bush received the letter on Saturday and responded on the same day by declaring a State of Emergency.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 827-1.html

Note per the "National Response Plan" ( http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrar ... seplan.pdf ), William Lokey was designated as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in Louisiana. Also note that in Governor Blanco's request on the 27th, there is both a specific request for help with evacuation and a specific request for help to "save lives and protect property")

-- Sunday, August 28, 2005 -- Mayor of New Orleans orders Mandatory Evacuation.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/h ... topstories

-- Monday, August 29, 2005 -- FEMA Director Brown requests DHS Secretary Chertoff's help in getting 1000 DHS employees ready to deploy to the disaster within 48 hours.

http://wid.ap.org/documents/dhskatrina.pdf

Under Figure 11 on Page 93 of National Response Plan, once the President declares a State of Emergency, the Department of Homeland Security is supposed to implement the Plan. Initially, DHS is supposed to deploy an Emergency Response Team to the State to provide expertise in assessing needs and determining appropriate courses of action. Moreover, on page 52 of the NRP, the President may act proactively under the Stafford Act.

Johnson developed this timeline because he was sick of the lies and half-truths being repeated in the media. In fact, Johnson will no longer appear on MSNBC again because ... well, let's hear it from him:

While watching the MSNBC program, CONNECTED, COAST TO COAST with Ron Reagan, a man from the Evergreen Foundation was on the air spinning the myth that the President had to "beg" the Governor of Louisiana to take action. Having been on this show several times I called one of the bookers, Susan Durrwatcher, to alert her to the fact that this man was misrepresenting what happened. I offered Susan objective, documented facts (e.g. my timeline). Susan thanked me for my "opinion" and said "we just have a different perspective". Stunned, I asked her by what standard of journalism that an objective fact was mere opinion? I asked her to simply look at the documents and correct the record. She declined. I asked her to remove me from the MSNBC list of contacts. I'm sure MSNBC won't miss me and I am certain I will have a happy life without having to subject myself to their unprofessional approach to journalism.

The Bush White House is furiously spinning to lay the blame on the Governor and Mayor of Louisiana. My position is that I think both the Governor and the Mayor can be faulted on a variety of fronts. I do not absolve them of their responsibility to properly and fully implement their own emergency response plans. However, the Governor followed the appropriate protocol and, in accordance with the National Response Plan (NRP), asked the President in accordance with the Stafford Act, to declare a State of Emergency.

And there it is. Sift through it and judge for yourself!

[classicstyxfan]

Hey ! I know he's actually Canadian and all, but if the Styx thing ends up dissolving, perhaps the current administration could use a man with......

Gowan's SPINNING expertise !!!!! ( bah-dumbum )

[Zan]

I think we've all made our feelings here known. I just thought perhaps it was time to respect each other enough to agree to disagree. None of us has all the answers, but I'd like to think that we can accept and respect each other enough to stop name calling and finger pointing at each other.

Carry on.

let's talk about something less controversial now. Who here thinks Dennis was jipped???

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Zan says:

let's talk about something less controversial now. Who here thinks Dennis was jipped???

Do you really want to get me started with this one today???? LOL

BRING IT ON!!!!