Is It Financially Worth It?

by **styxfanNH** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:06 pm

It's just a week away, and Dennis is to play again in Massachusetts.

Currently the show's reserved seating is about 3/4 sold out plus General Admision seating. (You can see the seats that are sold on their site)

With approximately 600 of the 900 reserved seats sold plus whatever other GA seats they may have sold, is it Financially worth it for Dennis to do these events?

That would make the 2nd of 2 shows that were poorly attended. (The other being Beverly) in Massachusetts.

Just looking for your opinions on this. This is not to slam Dennis, just wondering how any act can afford to do these types of shows.

Of note or comparison, The Fixx just came through here recently and played a venue that only held 750 if the place was packed and I can tell you it wasn't.

by **LordofDaRing** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:08 am

Dennis probably does lose money on some of these shows, especially when he is accompanied by full orchestras. I am sure he and his family are set financially (royalties, good investments, not sniffing it all up his nose). I think he probably is taking losses right now in his career just to keep his name out there, just in case and when the new CD comes out.

by **sadie65** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:42 am

I think it depends on the type of show he's doing. If it's an orchestra show, quite often (not always) it is in connection with a pledge drive for PBS. When those are involved he sells many tickets. To be sure, an orchestra is costly, which is why I think he tries to piggy back them with a PBS crossover.

I am sure it is spotty for him when he does a straight band show. Of course some promotion of the shows might help...

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:34 pm

Sadie says:

Of course some promotion of the shows might help...

I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GO THERE - UGH :shock:

For Dennis' orchestra shows, Dennis has to pay something like $4,000 per chart, if he plays 20 songs, which he usually does, then the cost is $80,000.

He explained the whole thing about soft tickets vs. hard tickets and the price of the orchestra shows. Someday I'll have someone post the whole thing. In my free time :wink:

Just looking for your opinions on this. This is not to slam Dennis, just wondering how any act can afford to do these types of shows.

Sometimes an artist will play for peanuts, because their happy just to perform

by **Monker** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:07 pm

sadie65 wrote:If it's an orchestra show, quite often (not always) it is in connection with a pledge drive for PBS. When those are involved he sells many tickets.

The above is simply not always true. He promoted his show in Des Moines on PBS during their pledge time, and even showed the orchestra concert (I have it taped)....and the theater was only half full at best...FAR away from 'many' tickets.

by **Monker** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:13 pm

BTW, this is why I said he should consider being an opening act. It's a bit sad that he can't even sell 1000 tickets on his own. At least as an opening act he can perform to a real audience.

styxfanNH wrote:It's just a week away, and Dennis is to play again in Massachusetts.

Currently the show's reserved seating is about 3/4 sold out plus General Admision seating. (You can see the seats that are sold on their site)

With approximately 600 of the 900 reserved seats sold plus whatever other GA seats they may have sold, is it Financially worth it for Dennis to do these events?

That would make the 2nd of 2 shows that were poorly attended. (The other being Beverly) in Massachusetts.

Just looking for your opinions on this. This is not to slam Dennis, just wondering how any act can afford to do these types of shows.

Of note or comparison, The Fixx just came through here recently and played a venue that only held 750 if the place was packed and I can tell you it wasn't.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:52 pm

Monker says:

BTW, this is why I said he should consider being an opening act. It's a bit sad that he can't even sell 1000 tickets on his own. At least as an opening act he can perform to a real audience.

So who do you think he should be an opening act for? REO? Oh I forgot, Carrot Styx is opening for them.

Seriously, who do you think?

By the way, if you look at Pollstar and the average tickets sold, Dennis has sold more that Robert Plant, on average. I thought that was pretty good and I was impressed.

:shock:

by **sadie65** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:14 pm

Monker wrote:
sadie65 wrote:If it's an orchestra show, quite often (not always) it is in connection with a pledge drive for PBS. When those are involved he sells many tickets.

The above is simply not always true. He promoted his show in Des Moines on PBS during their pledge time, and even showed the orchestra concert (I have it taped)....and the theater was only half full at best...FAR away from 'many' tickets.

If you'll notice I said quite often, not always. But then, why am I not surprised you missed that part. :wink:

by **sadie65** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:15 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Sadie says:

Of course some promotion of the shows might help...

I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GO THERE - UGH

For Dennis' orchestra shows, Dennis has to pay something like $4,000 per chart, if he plays 20 songs, which he usually does, then the cost is $80,000.

He explained the whole thing about soft tickets vs. hard tickets and the price of the orchestra shows. Someday I'll have someone post the whole thing. In my free time

Just looking for your opinions on this. This is not to slam Dennis, just wondering how any act can afford to do these types of shows.

Sometimes an artist will play for peanuts, because their happy just to perform

I thought it was $4000 for each orchestration to be written...not each time it was performed. If that is the case, I need to become part of an orchestra or symphony.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:36 pm

Sadie says:

I thought it was $4000 for each orchestration to be written...not each time it was performed. If that is the case, I need to become part of an orchestra or symphony.

Bugsy, do you remember? Sadie, I'll call you later (in your free time-UGH) and play the part for you. I thought he explained it pretty good, but you know how I explain things - LOL

I'm going to take music lessons this week - j/k

by **bugsymalone** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:41 pm

OK, the orchestra sheet music is a one-time cost, then, of course, all the music is carted around in that big, well-tended box you and I saw in NY, Suite. Remember. There has to be the parts written for each individual instrument in each orchestra. They probably have enough music for about a 50 piece orchestra and then use what is necessary for each show.

(Side note: I have heard the Milwaukee Symphony with him twice and they are simply outsanding!)

As to how many tickets he sells, it most certainly varies. Some of his shows are sell-outs, some near sell-outs and some are only so-so. My guess is, this all balances out by year's end. I would guess this would be true for nearly everyone if you are not The Eagles or the Rolling Stones or Madonna or Prince.

If he continually only has small audiences, then my guess is he would pack it in and do something else. That has not happened for him yet. I think, for his stature and standing (he was NOT a solo performer), he does very, very well. And his fund raisers for PBS are big, big successes.

Bugsy

by **kansas666** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:01 pm

You don't get it.

Denny doesn't lose money on these shows unless he chooses to. Denny doesn't take the risk. The promoter does. Denny goes out for a set fee. If ticket sales are light, the promoter loses money. If the show is a sellout, the promoter makes money.

Promoters wouldn't be taking a risk on Denny unless they thought they could make money. The same goes for STYX.

by **bugsymalone** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:27 pm

You are correct, Dave, but the success of ticket sales for "hard ticket" show gets you the next gig and the next, etc.

And, depending upon the arrangement, acts do share in the ticket revenue as well, or am I wrong about this??

Bugsy

by **Monker** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:39 pm

If you'll notice I said quite often, not always. But then, why am I not surprised you missed that part.

You must have had the same English teacher as Froy. You said, "If it's an orchestra show, quite often (not always) it is in connection with a pledge drive for PBS." Which means he often, not always, does a pledge drive for PBS. PERIOD. The bit about tickets is in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SENTENCE.

What you meant to say is, "Often, but not always, he will sell many tickets if it it's an orchestra show and he does a pledge drive for PBS."

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:21 am

Monker says:

You must have had the same English teacher as Froy.

I didn't know that this was an English Forum board and everyone had to post perfect like Monker - sheesh!!

No wonder people are afraid to post on here, they'll get picked on for typing something wrong or not spelling a word correctly.

Thanks Bugsy for the explanation, I thought it was each orchestra - OY on me!!!

by **kansas666** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:33 am

bugsymalone wrote:You are correct, Dave, but the success of ticket sales for "hard ticket" show gets you the next gig and the next, etc.

And, depending upon the arrangement, acts do share in the ticket revenue as well, or am I wrong about this??

Bugsy

You are right. And evidently the success of ticket sales has been good enough to keep him out there.

by **Monker** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:47 am

I didn't know that this was an English Forum board and everyone had to post perfect like Monker - sheesh!!

If someone is going to post sarcasm towards me, such as, "But then, why am I not surprised you missed that part." Then they should at least verify that what they posted IS as they meant it and not easily misunderstood.

But, why am I not surprised you missed that part of what was said to me?

No wonder people are afraid to post on here, they'll get picked on for typing something wrong or not spelling a word correctly.

It's none of my concern if people are 'afraid' to post here. Why should it be? As I have said, there is no respect shown towards Styx on this forum and I already know there are people who refuse to post here because of it.

by **Monker** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:48 am

You are right. And evidently the success of ticket sales has been good enough to keep him out there.

for now it is...But, I don't see why any promoter, venue, or Dennis himself, is going to continue investing in something that consistently loses money.

by **bugsymalone** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:08 am

for now it is...But, I don't see why any promoter, venue, or Dennis himself, is going to continue investing in something that consistently loses money.

For now....it is not "consistently" losing money. For PBS, raising close to 2 million dollars for local PBS stations is not "consistently" losing money for them either.

Bugsy

by **sadie65** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:10 am

Monker wrote:
You are right. And evidently the success of ticket sales has been good enough to keep him out there.

for now it is...But, I don't see why any promoter, venue, or Dennis himself, is going to continue investing in something that consistently loses money.

The question is, how do we know whether or not someone, anyone is consistently losing money? We've read where attendance has been good and poor. Just curious.

by **yogi** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:29 am

Maybe I am totally clueless but the way I understand it is that the musician or group will ALWAYS make money. They have a set price, plus they can make more, but never less. It is the promoter who can lose the cash.

Example, say you want to book Styx for a private bingo function. You contact their management team, they will tell you the cost, and if you agree to pay, and they can now swing it( no Amway convention to play etc) the gig is on.

Now the promoters have to sell the show to the public.

Dennis/ members of Styx ALWAYS make money. It is the promoters that lose if they cant sell the tickets.

Now if they really sell above and beyond then Styx/Dennis even reap more of the gate.

Isnt this how it works??????????????????? I am pretty sure it is!!!

Any of us could book Dennis/ Styx if we had the cash and a venue that is sma enough!!!!!!!!!

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:28 am

Yogi says:

Maybe I am totally clueless but the way I understand it is that the musician or group will ALWAYS make money. They have a set price, plus they can make more, but never less. It is the promoter who can lose the cash.

BINGO!!! Yogi you are correct

Sometimes musicians/artists will take a pay cut so a Promoter won't get totally hurt. :wink:

by **Monker** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:11 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Yogi says:

Maybe I am totally clueless but the way I understand it is that the musician or group will ALWAYS make money. They have a set price, plus they can make more, but never less. It is the promoter who can lose the cash.

BINGO!!! Yogi you are correct

Sometimes musicians/artists will take a pay cut so a Promoter won't get totally hurt.

Why would a theater book a band that only fills half the seats when they can book somebody else who sells out? Why would a performer want to play to only a half full venue? Why would a promoter want to book a band to a theater when he KNOWS he won't sell half the available seats?

THAT is where Dennis is heading. He should seriously consider opening for somebody else or quit touring.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:15 pm

Monker says:

THAT is where Dennis is heading. He should seriously consider opening for somebody else or quit touring.

So, who do you think Dennis should open for? Any suggestions? If he would open for anyone, how long would his set be for?

by **froy** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:25 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Monker says:

THAT is where Dennis is heading. He should seriously consider opening for somebody else or quit touring.

So, who do you think Dennis should open for? Any suggestions? If he would open for anyone, how long would his set be for?

Dennis is not opening for anyone
Monker is an idiot

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:33 pm

Froy says:

Dennis is not opening for anyone

I asked him twice and he still won't give any suggestions or post who Dennis should open for. OY!!

Monker is an idiot

LOL, I was waiting for that one :wink:

I know Dennis wouldn't open for anyone, there would be no way.

by **Monker** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:44 am

Froy says:

Quote:
Dennis is not opening for anyone

I asked him twice and he still won't give any suggestions or post who Dennis should open for. OY!!

He should open for Linda Ronstadt, Bette Midler, or Stomp. Or, maybe Riverdance.

Why should I take you seriously when you surround your question with sarcastic nips either at me (as above) or at Styx (in the previous)?

Quote:
Monker is an idiot

LOL, I was waiting for that one

I know Dennis wouldn't open for anyone, there would be no way.

Then Dennis is an arrogant ass who can't see what is plainly in front of him at many of his shows - what he is offering isn't selling or entertaining.

Funny how you are both arguing with me on this when you both experienced his statue like audience at Rockford...just a bit of a drive from his own home. If that happened to Styx, I could just imagine froy's comments. If he can't even enthuse the crowds THAT close to Chicago, why should he expect to sell and enthuse crowds ANYWHERE outside of the midwest?

What is with you, man? What a stooopid eediot! Don't make me slap you, you bloated bag of protoplasm!

by **NoMoreTails** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:35 am

How about a Dennis DeYoung/Steve Perry musical version of Grumpy Old Men tour....they can compare bogus hip injury/light sensitivity stories.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:54 am

SuiteMadameBlue says:

I know Dennis wouldn't open for anyone, there would be no way.

I guess I'll have to take that statement back. :wink:

Monker says:

Why should I take you seriously when you surround your question with sarcastic nips either at me (as above) or at Styx (in the previous)?

You seem a little tense Monker, I hope work is going good for you. Hopefully you can take a little vacation and relax.

I really wanted your opinion on who you think Dennis should open for, seriously.

by **DeeJaySTYX** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:12 am

No you don't, Suite, you are going to get the same BullCrap that this knucklehead keeps giving you....

MR

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