My opinion on the DeYoung flap

[Blue Falcon]

There is no question that without DeYoung, Styx probably never would have become a big band in the late 70s.

Having said that, I think his ego definitely got the best of him and he became very domineering...the whole thing of forcing the band to do Kilroy a case in point. However, the band has to take some blame for that too, since they allowed him to twist their arms. The fact is, the four of them could have dragged DeYoung behind the studio and beat the living crap out of him, but they didn't...and we got Kilroy!

I think DeYoung started losing it after the success of Grand Illusion...that Lords of the Ring song from Pieces of Eight is horrendous, and belongs on a King Crimson album, not Styx.

Obviously Babe from Cornerstone was a ballad, and this seemed to convince him that his way (Broadway-like show tunes) was the right way. First Time certainly didn't help matters either.

Although I like Borrowed Time, it sounds dated: the keyboard intro sounds like it should be the theme song for some Seventies Today Show on NBC. DeYoung's annoying tendency to ad-lib during songs ("Don't look now but here come the Eighties!" Thanks for that warning, Den...) was starting to intrude on the songs, like Why Me.

Nothing Ever Goes As Planned from Paradis Theater is truly pathetic. How can a guy who wrote Grand Illusion write lyrics like "you go to work/you go work/you go to work/you go to work"? And what's with the dago shoes reference...does DeYoung have a problem with Italians? Lonely People is pretty crappy too.

Obviously the others didn't help...Shaw's She Cares is musical toilet paper at best.

And don't get me started on Kilroy....DeYoung's ego clearly derailed this band so badly that 22 years later they still can't get along!

[Zan]

Obviously the others didn't help...Shaw's She Cares is musical toilet paper at best.

[ChicagoSTYX]

I agree with Blue!!

[sadie65]

There is no question that without DeYoung, Styx probably never would have become a big band in the late 70s.

First off...welcome to the board.

Having said that, I think his ego definitely got the best of him and he became very domineering...the whole thing of forcing the band to do Kilroy a case in point. However, the band has to take some blame for that too, since they allowed him to twist their arms. The fact is, the four of them could have dragged DeYoung behind the studio and beat the living crap out of him, but they didn't...and we got Kilroy!

I think egos all got enlarged, not just Mr. DeYoung. I tire of the whole idea that Mr. DeYoung forced them into anything. They made a choice that they ultimately disagreed with down the road. As for Kilroy, someone must have liked it, it did go multi platinum.

I think DeYoung started losing it after the success of Grand Illusion...that Lords of the Ring song from Pieces of Eight is horrendous, and belongs on a King Crimson album, not Styx.

I disagree. I like the song and think it fits fine. To each his own.

Obviously Babe from Cornerstone was a ballad, and this seemed to convince him that his way (Broadway-like show tunes) was the right way. First Time certainly didn't help matters either.

Babe is not a "Broadway" like show tune. It's a straight forward ballad. As for First Time, I don't care for it myself. Cornerstone did not carry any "Broadway" like show tunes. That too, for me, is a tired argument.

Although I like Borrowed Time, it sounds dated: the keyboard intro sounds like it should be the theme song for some Seventies Today Show on NBC. DeYoung's annoying tendency to ad-lib during songs ("Don't look now but here come the Eighties!" Thanks for that warning, Den...) was starting to intrude on the songs, like Why Me.

Borrowed Time was a good song for that era. Very topical for that era. So yes, perhaps in today's standards it's dated, however I think it holds up well. I find his adlibs quite appropriate, but I'll respect that we disagree.

Nothing Ever Goes As Planned from Paradis Theater is truly pathetic. How can a guy who wrote Grand Illusion write lyrics like "you go to work/you go work/you go to work/you go to work"? And what's with the dago shoes reference...does DeYoung have a problem with Italians? Lonely People is pretty crappy too.

Given that Mr. DeYoung is half Italian and married to an Italian, I hardly think he has any issues with Italians. It's becoming obvious you don't care for much of his material. That's fine, however the song was good at conveying a normal feeling many people have in there lives at different points.

Obviously the others didn't help...Shaw's She Cares is musical toilet paper at best.

While certainly not one of Mr. Shaw's best works, I wouldn't call it musical toilet paper. The album also gave Mr. Shaw his only top 10 hit (with his Styx music). Not too shabby.

And don't get me started on Kilroy....DeYoung's ego clearly derailed this band so badly that 22 years later they still can't get along!

The band gets along fine. Would that it were so simple to point to one album as being the sole reason a band doesn't get along. Too simplistic.

Again...welcome to the board.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Yeah, what Sadie said

Obviously the others didn't help...Shaw's She Cares is musical toilet paper at best.

OHHHHHHHHHHH, I LOVE this song too!! I think I'll play it right now too

[bugsymalone]

Yeah. Welcome to the board. Opinions always welcome here, but, of course, not without some argument.

However, you lost me at "Lonely People." As complex and sophisticated a song --lyrics and music -- as Styx has ever done. Simply a truly great song.

Oh yeah, and I second what Sadie said.

Bugsy

[Blue Falcon]

I should have stated that I don't have any problem with DDY's lyrics, it's with his music.

And you may be right...maybe the whole band bought into the Kilroy thing and only years later when they realized how they were ridiculed because of it did they decide to blame it all on DDY.

I also think it's a shame that JY still feels the need to bash DDY in print. These are guys who have known each other for 30+ years!!

[yogi]

I never liked Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, or Lonely People either. To me these are the first two songs where Dennis started his broadway ambitions. Very big band/ showtune type songs.

I dont like She Cares at all either.

I REALLY like the rest of the songs on Paradise Theatre, but I dont care for those three at all.

[Blue Falcon]

Yes, Paradise Theater does have some of the BEST Styx songs on it too:
Too Much Time On My Hands, Snowblind, Half-Penny, etc.

[DeeJaySTYX]

I never liked Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, or Lonely People either. To me these are the first two songs where Dennis started his broadway ambitions. Very big band/ showtune type songs.

I dont like She Cares at all either.

I REALLY like the rest of the songs on Paradise Theatre, but I dont care for those three at all.

I respectfully disagree...Nothing Ever Goes As Plan, Lonely People, and Why Me added a Jazz type style to the band, such as the band Chicago in their early years with 25 or 6 to 4 and Does Anybody Know What Time It Is...It has nothing to do with Showtunes or Broadway..


And I'm with Suite on She Cares...I do like that song...

[SuiteMadameBlue]

DeeJay says:

I respectfully disagree...Nothing Ever Goes As Plan, Lonely People, and Why Me added a Jazz type style to the band, such as the band Chicago in their early years with 25 or 6 to 4 and Does Anybody Know What Time It Is...It has nothing to do with Showtunes or Broadway..

Question about these three songs, were any of these played live in concert? If so, did they bring in a horn section? Besides the Symphony concert in Georgia in 1996, did Styx ever bring on extra musicians on stage? And if so again to any of these, do I have the cd's?

And I'm with Suite on She Cares...I do like that song...

Hey DeeJay, are you with me with "First Time" and "Unfinished Song"??

[DarwinNebraska]

What's a "DeYoung Flap"... that thing on his head?

[DeeJaySTYX]

Suite Says:

Question about these three songs, were any of these played live in concert? If so, did they bring in a horn section? Besides the Symphony concert in Georgia in 1996, did Styx ever bring on extra musicians on stage? And if so again to any of these, do I have the cd's?

I heard that Why Me was played live...I don't know about the other 2 songs and I don't know about the Horn Section or extra musicians....If they were ever going to (Which I think is unlikely), I believe that they could pull it off and make it sound good...The Eagles added extra musicians for there FareWell I Tour DVD...The Long Run sounded really good backed by the horn section....

Hey DeeJay, are you with me with "First Time" and "Unfinished Song"??

Unfinished Song is pretty good and First Time is just O.K...

[SuiteMadameBlue]

DeeJay says:

I heard that Why Me was played live...I don't know about the other 2 songs and I don't know about the Horn Section or extra musicians....If they were ever going to (Which I think is unlikely), I believe that they could pull it off and make it sound good...

I guess no one knows, or they don't remember

I wonder if during the Paradise Theater tour? I'll add this one to the next batch of questions I'm just curious......

I knew you liked "Unfinished Song"

[Abitaman]

that Lords of the Ring song from Pieces of Eight is horrendous,

Why do you think he had JY sing it!?!-ERIC

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Blue Falcon wrote:
that Lords of the Ring song from Pieces of Eight is horrendous
Eric wrote:
Why do you think he had JY sing it!?!-ERIC

Hey, I was looking forward to hearing this song live at Dennis' concerts!!

I would love to hear Dennis sing it!! It would be a whole different song, my opinion

You know what other song I would love to hear Dennis sing live, "You Need Love", what are the chances that he'll sing that one at a Lost Treasure's show??????? Oh, my very first Styx song that I ever heard!

I heard "Unfinished Song" live, now I'm just getting greedy - mah ha ha ha

[BlackWall]

I also really dig the songs "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" and "Lonely People". For me, I will have to admit that I do think that at least "Lonely People" was probably the beginning of Dennis doing some songs that had a little bit of a Broadway flavor, but this song was done so well; who couldn't relate to a line like "Oh my God, we both are empty, paradise and me.." This album, along with the song "Suite Madame Blue" is Dennis at his best.

[Zan]

I also really dig the songs "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" and "Lonely People". For me, I will have to admit that I do think that at least "Lonely People" was probably the beginning of Dennis doing some songs that had a little bit of a Broadway flavor, but this song was done so well; who couldn't relate to a line like "Oh my God, we both are empty, paradise and me.." This album, along with the song "Suite Madame Blue" is Dennis at his best.

Over the years, these two songs have become two of my favorite Styx songs, even though they are a little cheesy in their own way. Personally, I think they're extremely well-written and executed. I wish DDY did THESE in his shows (and drop a couple o' the sappy ones? pretty please? haha).

[bugsymalone]

I also really dig the songs "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" and "Lonely People". For me, I will have to admit that I do think that at least "Lonely People" was probably the beginning of Dennis doing some songs that had a little bit of a Broadway flavor, but this song was done so well; who couldn't relate to a line like "Oh my God, we both are empty, paradise and me.." This album, along with the song "Suite Madame Blue" is Dennis at his best.

Over the years, these two songs have become two of my favorite Styx songs, even though they are a little cheesy in their own way. Personally, I think they're extremely well-written and executed. I wish DDY did THESE in his shows (and drop a couple o' the sappy ones? pretty please? haha).

I am with you guys on this one. "Lonely People" is one of Dennis' most accomplished compositions -- insightful lyrics, terrific music and arrangement. It would be cool to hear it in concert someday.

Bugsy

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Bugsy says:

I am with you guys on this one. "Lonely People" is one of Dennis' most accomplished compositions -- insightful lyrics, terrific music and arrangement. It would be cool to hear it in concert someday.

Zan says:

Over the years, these two songs have become two of my favorite Styx songs, even though they are a little cheesy in their own way. Personally, I think they're extremely well-written and executed. I wish DDY did THESE in his shows (and drop a couple o' the sappy ones? pretty please? haha).

BlackWall says:

I also really dig the songs "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" and "Lonely People". For me, I will have to admit that I do think that at least "Lonely People" was probably the beginning of Dennis doing some songs that had a little bit of a Broadway flavor, but this song was done so well; who couldn't relate to a line like "Oh my God, we both are empty, paradise and me.." This album, along with the song "Suite Madame Blue" is Dennis at his best.

These sound GREAT! So, if he drops the orchestra, adds a horn section with the band how would these songs sound? Any other ideas on instruments to add?

How about a re-vamp of "Lost Treasures" with these added along with "Why Me" and "I'm Okay"????

I personally don't think he'll drop "First Time" now. Especially since I didn't hear it live yet

[sadie65]

The list of songs Dennis could drop would definitely vary from person to person. I of course would love it if he added these songs. Even though he was so sick, it was cool to have the horn present for Back to Chicago. Now if he would only add that one so I could hear it done when he isn't sick.

As for First Time...well...he could truly omit it and I would be a happy little camper.

[ParallelTime]

I also really dig the songs "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" and "Lonely People".

Two of my favorites too. These songs always fleshed Paradise Theatre out as a truly great album for me. They weren't the hits, but they weren't filler either just great solid stuff.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Sadie wrote:

As for First Time...well...he could truly omit it and I would be a happy little camper.

You know that won't happen!!

"That's the one that got away"................... I totally believe that. Again, I believe this would've been a top 3 hit for sure.

I would love to hear "Back To Chicago" again LIVE!!! GREAT song!!

ParallelTime wrote:

Two of my favorites too. These songs always fleshed Paradise Theatre out as a truly great album for me. They weren't the hits, but they weren't filler either just great solid stuff.

So true!!! I totally agree