FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH

[Monker]

A wise man recently said to me that the REAL talent in Styx was Dennis, Tommy and then Glen. The others were all good players, but the GREAT talent, the talent that set them apart from other bands came from those three.

Well, whoever said that was not as wise as you seem to think.

Styx with JY subdued is too much like Edge - and it sucks. If JY had not been allowed to express himself in the early days, I doubt they would have ever become as successful as they were. Those first albums built a foundation to build upon. Without that foundation, GI, PT, POE would have nothing to stand on and would have probably ended up being very different.

It takes a team and I doubt that team would not have been success without JY. In fact, I would even include JC in that statement as well. These guys may not have been as dominant as Tommy and Dennis...but, IMO, they are more important to the history and success of Styx then Glen was.

The same wise man also said that in just about every interview JY is asked about Dennis. When Dennis is interviewed he is never asked about JY.

Again, whoever said this is not very wise. How do you know these people were not asked questions that were not answered, or were answered and edited out? How do you know the interviewer was TOLD not to ask certain questions? This 'wise' person is assuming way too much, IMO.

Most people dont even know who JY is. This pisses JY off so he cant even see straight. This goes back to Dennis and Tommy being the real stars in the band.

First of all, I don't think JY is as pissed off as some people think. He's just saying "this is how it was..." and that pisses YOU (or whoever) off. Secondly, who cares? That doesn't make JY any more or less important to the band.

This brings me to Glen. He was on one album with 'Dennis led Styx'. Off that album he penned five songs, and sang lead on four including the title track. Go back and listen to Edge, its an awesome album.

I don't think it is. I never thought it was. It is a very mediocre CD. I always thought it sounded like a bunch of Dennis solo songs, and a bunch of Glen solo songs...and one JY song...It gives me no different of a feeling then BNW does to most people. In fact, I always felt it NEEDED more of JY's influence to bring it all together and make it sound more like STYX.

Lets quickly talk Cyclorama. For me the five top songs on that CD were: Kiss Your Ass Goodbye, Yes I Can, Killing The Thing That You Love, One With Everything, and These Are The Times. Glen was a major force on the first four of those songs.

For me, the entire CD is awesome. So? Either way, I don't think it makes Glen any more or less important then JY or even JC. JY also had his hand in some of those songs, particularly "These Are the Times".

Finally, you have Glen's 'Welcome To Hollywood' next to Equinox I dont think I will EVER like an album more. It is more brilliant today than the first time I heard it. It is simply the finest CD that nobodys heard of. In the last 15 years, if there was ever a MUST purchase piece of rock music this is it!! In my opinion Glen COMPLETELY blows Tommy out of the water talent wise. Seven Deadly Zens was very good, BUT Welcome To Hollywood is EPIC!!!

I don't get it? What does Glen's solo work have to do with his importance to Styx?

So what should happen with Styx?? Dennis was the superstar of the band, ALWAYS has been, ALWAYS will be. Tommy and Glen were the stars. And the rest of the band were the role players. Dont get me wrong role players are important, but still they are role players.

I disagree with that. I think they are ALL "role players", it's just that some are more dominant then others and more visible. That doesn't make them more important...it just means they get more attention.

Way Way back in 1978 the rest of the band called Dennis 'The Doctor'. I can tell you this much... 'The Doctor Is STILL In. He is once again rocking. And with the addition of Glen is playing a much more entertaining show than the band that currently calls itself Styx.

Wow. I have not seen Dennis with Glen. But, I can't imagine Glen saving his show and making it more entertaining for me.

[Zan]

I disagree with that. I think they are ALL "role players", it's just that some are more dominant then others and more visible. That doesn't make them more important...it just means they get more attention.

:::whistling & cheering:::

Bravo, my friend.

[StyxCollector]

My $.02 - JY's songwriting is arguably the weakest of the three main songwriters in the classic lineup. But in the RCA/Wooden Nickel years, he did have a more prominent role, and it served a purpose.

What I think JY brings to the table is the glue in the Styx harmonies with Tommy and Dennis. I think when the band was working as a unit - at least through GI and at least part of Po8 - they all pulled the same weight in terms of contribution even though songwriting may not reflect that. Once fame set in, it was pretty much a "me, me, me" thing from Cornerstone on. You can hear the division on the albums, but in thinking recently, PT is a very cohesive album and in some ways could be like the Styx version of Abbey Road in the sense that they pulled off one last studio album as a band before they released Let It Be (a la Kilroy). I love Kilroy, but the division on Cornersone and that album can be heard.

I disagree with that. I think they are ALL "role players", it's just that some are more dominant then others and more visible. That doesn't make them more important...it just means they get more attention.

Good way to sum it up.

Wow. I have not seen Dennis with Glen. But, I can't imagine Glen saving his show and making it more entertaining for me.

See, here's where I would disagree with you: I've seen both lineups (DDY with and without Glen, with and without orchestra; Styx the current lineup with Glen and without Glen). Both have had good shows and mediocre shows, and I find both lineups entertaining. Now, if you don't want to hear "Babe", definitely don't go to a DDY show, but the influence of DDY can be felt in the current Styx shows. At least some of the ones I saw (the one tour a few years back especially - when the S T Y X letters were up on the stage and they started the show walking on stage behind them with the lights dimmed, they came up and you could see the silouettes; that was very Dennis if you ask me). It's not a bad thing, but you can't be in a band with a guy for 20 - 30 years and not have him rub off, even if you hate his guts (or don't ... not insinuating anything).

So to me, the two camps are really not dissimilar, and they are more alike than they think.

[shaka]

Several posts ago someone said that Dennis was the musician and Tommy was the look. Some may disagree but I think Tommy is a far more accomplished guitar (and several other stringed instruments) player than Dennis is a pianist or keyboard player.

I don't consider Dennis to be a better songwriter either. I think they are equal with different styles. I definitely think Tommy is the more versatile songwriter.

JY and his raging guitar style and his ability to sing great harmonies really is the cement in Styx. As JY's influence waned Styx became far less interesting.

Eric

[StyxCollector]

Several posts ago someone said that Dennis was the musician and Tommy was the look. Some may disagree but I think Tommy is a far more accomplished guitar (and several other stringed instruments) player than Dennis is a pianist or keyboard player.

I don't consider Dennis to be a better songwriter either. I think they are equal with different styles. I definitely think Tommy is the more versatile songwriter.

Well, the thing is ... I think Tommy has been his most honest as a songwriter when he is doing projects like Shaw/Blades and the unreleased covers album with Jack which speak to his roots back home in Alabama. As much as he really tries to be a rocker - and he is to a point - he's more of a singer/songwriter to me. A song like "Little Girl World" is another example where if you think about it and strip away the production (such as the drum machine sequence), it's more of an acoustic guitar song. "Yes I Can" - another. "She Cares" - another. "Crystal Ball" - another. "Boat On The River - another. "Sing For The Day" - another. "Fooling Yourself" - another. Tommy has a pattern which we've seen since 1976.

Now, none of these are really rock tracks I listed, but I believe are more intrinsic to who Tommy is (IMHO). Then you have "Renegade" which to me is more the exception than the rule with him. I would almost bet that track didn't sound like the version we all know until Styx got ahold of it.

To my point about Styx vs. DDY, I don't see DDY and Tommy as fundamentally different songwriters. Both can write a rock tune, but both I think are more adept at the soft side than people want to really own up to. JY, on the other hand, has to be forced into that acoustic/ballad world. He's a rocker through and through.

Dennis is a fantastic keyboard player. Tommy himself admitted quite awhile back that in his solo projects he couldn't get anyone to do songs like "Fooling Yourself" the way DDY could play it. DDY is a good piano player, not a great piano player. Tommy is a very good acoustic guitar player and a decent electric - some of his solos are among the more memorable Styx ones - but I wouldn't label any of them "brilliant". They are great in context of the song. "Blue Collar Man" is a great example - you'll hear better solos that will knock you on your ass from other bands and players, but damn if that solo doesn't sound great and fit that song to a T. And that was the genius (so-to-speak) of what Styx was back in the day - the sum of the parts added up to a good whole. Individually, I don't think any of them would have had that level of success and where they all are now is built on that legacy which started to heat up in '74/'75 and peaked somewhere between '81 and '83 depending on your viewpoint.

Tommy can play mandolin? Nice. DDY plays accordian. It's not tit-for-tat and who plays the most instruments.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

All these guys worked together to put music that I grew up with and enjoyed my whole life. To me they were a wonderful team and I wish that I didn't know anything at all of what happened behind the scenes.

Only to go back in time..................

[StyxCollector]

All these guys worked together to put music that I grew up with and enjoyed my whole life. To me they were a wonderful team and I wish that I didn't know anything at all of what happened behind the scenes.

Only to go back in time..................

But once the cat is out of the bag, you view things in a whole new light. I still enjoy the music, but my dealings with various members of the band and their respective management and publicists over the years certainly altered my perception. I know more about that band than I could ever say publicly, but I am not sorry I lost my innocence. It certainly gets you out of fan mode quickly.

I mean - just take a peek at the Journey forums and what is ripping it apart right now. The blind devotion by some to a band and its members to me having come through the other side is really the grand illusion. When DDY says in his concerts at a certain point, "Well, at home, I'm really an asshole", you know he is partially kidding, but I would venture forth to offer my opinion that in some ways, he's not. I would think Tommy, and to some degree, JY are the same. I think fans really want to believe that all of these guys will be "BFF" - best friends forever, they all love to do stuff for the fans, etc.

The sad reality is that once most bands achieve success and then you're part of a big business machine, things change. Attitudes change. And most importantly, people change - some for the better, some for the worse. This is the reality of most bands. Very few bands are an exception.

[styxfanNH]

It always amazes me how quickly "Fans" of this band are willing to denigrate the other members to prop "their guy" up. The key to Styx has always been the diversity of the band and the three varying song writing styles. This is why the critics hated them so much, because they couldn't pigeon hole the band into any one category. Each member had it's importance in the creation of the song that was brought to the table and each had it's influences in it's final product. None of them is a one man band, as some seem to believe. If any of them were the musical geniuses that some portray, then they would have been huge as solo artists. Which we know they were not.

They all have their faults and share of the blame for where they are now. No one is perfect.

Look at what is happening over at the Journey board. True or not, supporters of the older line-up are going so far as to analyze boot leg copies of concerts to discredit the current lineup. Is that what we are about to become? I hope not.

[StyxCollector]

Look at what is happening over at the Journey board. True or not, supporters of the older line-up are going so far as to analyze boot leg copies of concerts to discredit the current lineup. Is that what we are about to become? I hope not.

See, you have it wrong. The Perryheads are trying to claim victory, but it has nothing to do with Perry. The guy who started it is/was a fan of the Augeri until he figured out the lipping. His posts (and he has 5000+ of 'em dating back a few years) prove that. Don't confuse him - whichever side of the fence you're on in that situation - with the Perry sycophants.

[shaka]

Several posts ago someone said that Dennis was the musician and Tommy was the look. Some may disagree but I think Tommy is a far more accomplished guitar (and several other stringed instruments) player than Dennis is a pianist or keyboard player.

I don't consider Dennis to be a better songwriter either. I think they are equal with different styles. I definitely think Tommy is the more versatile songwriter.

Well, the thing is ... I think Tommy has been his most honest as a songwriter when he is doing projects like Shaw/Blades and the unreleased covers album with Jack which speak to his roots back home in Alabama. As much as he really tries to be a rocker - and he is to a point - he's more of a singer/songwriter to me. A song like "Little Girl World" is another example where if you think about it and strip away the production (such as the drum machine sequence), it's more of an acoustic guitar song. "Yes I Can" - another. "She Cares" - another. "Crystal Ball" - another. "Boat On The River - another. "Sing For The Day" - another. "Fooling Yourself" - another. Tommy has a pattern which we've seen since 1976.

Now, none of these are really rock tracks I listed, but I believe are more intrinsic to who Tommy is (IMHO). Then you have "Renegade" which to me is more the exception than the rule with him. I would almost bet that track didn't sound like the version we all know until Styx got ahold of it.

To my point about Styx vs. DDY, I don't see DDY and Tommy as fundamentally different songwriters. Both can write a rock tune, but both I think are more adept at the soft side than people want to really own up to. JY, on the other hand, has to be forced into that acoustic/ballad world. He's a rocker through and through.

Dennis is a fantastic keyboard player. Tommy himself admitted quite awhile back that in his solo projects he couldn't get anyone to do songs like "Fooling Yourself" the way DDY could play it. DDY is a good piano player, not a great piano player. Tommy is a very good acoustic guitar player and a decent electric - some of his solos are among the more memorable Styx ones - but I wouldn't label any of them "brilliant". They are great in context of the song. "Blue Collar Man" is a great example - you'll hear better solos that will knock you on your ass from other bands and players, but damn if that solo doesn't sound great and fit that song to a T. And that was the genius (so-to-speak) of what Styx was back in the day - the sum of the parts added up to a good whole. Individually, I don't think any of them would have had that level of success and where they all are now is built on that legacy which started to heat up in '74/'75 and peaked somewhere between '81 and '83 depending on your viewpoint.

Tommy can play mandolin? Nice. DDY plays accordian. It's not tit-for-tat and who plays the most instruments.

I wasn't trying to denegrate Dennis. I love Dennis and think he's a very good keyboard/piano,accordian player. For both players their biggest strength is knowing what to play melodically that will fit the song. Your take on the Blue Collar Man solo was dead on. it's just a great solo from a melodic standpoint. Personally, I'll take a melodic solo over a shredfest any day. I can say the same for Dennis. Take the sometimes maligned song Eddy from the Cornerstone album. (I love the song) Dennis plays a fairly simple keyboard part with a cool sound that completely sets up the guitar solo. I think the part, while simple, is brilliant.

I still think Tommy is a better guitarist than Dennis is a keyboard player. (I play both although
I'm a pretty crappy piano player becaues I haven't practiced in years.) I've heard Tommy do some very technical things on electric and acoustic. Let's not forget that Ted Nugent once said that Tommy is one of the best slide players he'd ever seen. That's a huge compliment froma guitarist that is considered by many to be a legend.

Eric

[styxfanNH]

Look at what is happening over at the Journey board. True or not, supporters of the older line-up are going so far as to analyze boot leg copies of concerts to discredit the current lineup. Is that what we are about to become? I hope not.

See, you have it wrong. The Perryheads are trying to claim victory, but it has nothing to do with Perry. The guy who started it is/was a fan of the Augeri until he figured out the lipping. His posts (and he has 5000+ of 'em dating back a few years) prove that. Don't confuse him - whichever side of the fence you're on in that situation - with the Perry sycophants.

OK, I stand corrected. But I still hope we can appreciate the music for what it is without all the BS that surrounds the inner workings of the band. hey it's music ...

[Monker]

See, you have it wrong. The Perryheads are trying to claim victory, but it has nothing to do with Perry. The guy who started it is/was a fan of the Augeri until he figured out the lipping. His posts (and he has 5000+ of 'em dating back a few years) prove that. Don't confuse him - whichever side of the fence you're on in that situation - with the Perry sycophants.

That is all true...

BUT, out of all of the regulars on that forum - ONLY the Perry fans supported Dean. It was VERY one-sided until the Perry fans started showing up from other forums (like Magwheels, and others).

It may have "nothing to do about Perry"...But, Perry fans put themselves right in the middle of it.

also, if someone started accusing Styx of doing something similar, I do not doubt for one moment that the same situation would occur here. It's just that Dean has a brain where froy has empty space...So, it's gone on a lot longer and lot more extreme.

[Monker]

Quote:
Wow. I have not seen Dennis with Glen. But, I can't imagine Glen saving his show and making it more entertaining for me.


See, here's where I would disagree with you: I've seen both lineups (DDY with and without Glen, with and without orchestra; Styx the current lineup with Glen and without Glen). Both have had good shows and mediocre shows, and I find both lineups entertaining.

I'm not going to quote your entire paragraph, cuz that would be a bit too much.

You simply didn't get my point. I was not trying to critique Dennis' shows, or compare them with Styx. It's very simple - I do NOT believe adding Glen to Dennis' shows is "playing a much more entertaining show than the band that currently calls itself Styx." It would make the show more interesting. It adds the ability of performing some Glen songs...But, I do not see it as a catapult from what I view as a mediocre show into something fantastic.

In fact, your statment above seems to agree...You are not saying that adding Glen suddenly made Dennis show so much better...blah, blah, blah. You put everything and everybody equal - that is not what Yogi did.

[whocares]

I think that anyone who hasn't seen the DDY show that's been going around the last few years, where he plays with the orchestra are missing out, BIGTIME.

It's a heck of a show he is putting on. Much better than the last two times I saw Styx with Gowan.

I won't get into a pissing match about JY or Glen, but I do agree Glen probably saw Styx more as a gig than being full time Styx. He had too much more going on than to just be in Styx.

I've met Tommy Shaw and had a nice talk with him even, couldn't meet a nicer guy, at the time, other than Michael McDonald.

[styxfanNH]

The shows are completely different formats and difficult to compare. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the orchestra show, but I have seen him with his 5-piece rock band and with Glen. The shows are drasticly different. Glen certainly puts an extra bounce in the band's set and stage presence.

Neither show compares with a STYX show. Styx is a lot higher energy. If for no other reason, the selection of songs they are playing.

Both are very entertaining shows.

[Zan]

I've seen the orchestra show, not the rock show, and it was...good. I enjoyed it, albeit a little boring at times (I honestly don't enjoy hearing "Babe," Best of Times," "Don't let it End," "Lady," or "Show Me the Way" (especially accapella with Suzanne ). Esmerelda is excrutiating. I know Froy likes it because Dennis' little vibrato moves up and down in his cute little neck when he sings it, but I almost fell alseep. Castle Walls and Pieces of Eight were very cool tho. I laughed at his "old" jokes: "Quick, let's go see him, he'll be dead soon" was hysterical.

I do understand how those (like Froy) who get gooey over songs like Esmerelda would find Dennis' shows more enjoyable. And the ones who are under the evil spell.

[froy]

It always amazes me how quickly "Fans" of this band are willing to denigrate the other members to prop "their guy" up. The key to Styx has always been the diversity of the band and the three varying song writing styles.

You are correct and when 1 of the song writting styles is taken away so is the band.
Its not STYX unless Dennis Deyoung is in the band
Case closed.

This is why the critics hated them so much, because they couldn't pigeon hole the band into any one category.

Correct again.

Each member had it's importance in the creation of the song that was brought to the table and each had it's influences in it's final product.

Right .

None of them is a one man band, as some seem to believe.

They were not a one man band but some played bigger roles than others

If any of them were the musical geniuses that some portray, then they would have been huge as solo artists.

Dennis is and was the biggest solo artist and he did not even try at it.

[styxfanNH]

OMG,

Froy and I agreed. The world is coming to an end.

[AnnieOprah]

However, as the DDY nazis from days gone by liked to bring up relentlessly, "Ritual" only topped out at #80 or something, while "Show me the Way" was the real success - and even that was mostly due to the tragedy in the Gulf.

So DDY fans are 'nazis' now. And I suppose that fans of the 'new' Styx are open minded and evolved and of course have absolutely no lunatic fringe whatsoever.

Elections are over four months away and you're already in mid-season DNC form, lose the argument, call a name.

That is just Zan....She is the biggest hypocrite there is.. Nothing she says can be taken at face value - she has an agenda and it is quite obvious. Just ignore her.

[StyxCollector]

The shows are completely different formats and difficult to compare. Unfortunately, I haven't seen the orchestra show, but I have seen him with his 5-piece rock band and with Glen. The shows are drasticly different. Glen certainly puts an extra bounce in the band's set and stage presence.

Neither show compares with a STYX show. Styx is a lot higher energy. If for no other reason, the selection of songs they are playing.

Both are very entertaining shows.

See, I don't find either show that different. There's a lot of theatrics in both, it's just how it's executed. DDY's stripped down show has a bit of a different feel, but the best time I've seen DDY solo was that 1st orchestra show in Chicago in 2002.

At the two shows in NJ, Glen was onstage only part of the time. The first night he only had one guitar, and Tommy D. did "Prelude 12" as well. Night two in AC Glen brought his twelve string and played it along with "Suite ...". The one criticism I've had of DDY's shows is that Tommy is trying to do the parts of two guitarists, so what he's been doing on some songs is a composite of parts. With Glen there, IMO, it makes Tommy's life easier and they should sound better. That's where I see the difference with Glen.

[froy]

Esmerelda is excrutiating. I know Froy likes it because Dennis' little vibrato moves up and down in his cute little neck when he sings it,

Thats funny you must have been stoned on something because Dennis does not even sing that song live
Amick or Mike Eldred does and Amicks version is out of this world just beautiful.

Castle Walls and Pieces of Eight were very cool tho.

Yep they sure were ,.

I do understand how those (like Froy) who get gooey over songs like Esmerelda would find Dennis' shows more enjoyable. And the ones who are under the evil spell. ;

Comming from someone who thinks Dennis is Mike Eldred Im not sure you were even at the show.
Esmerelda is the most beautiful song Dennis has ever written
Someday I will sing it to you Zan and we shall see what happens,

[AnnieOprah]

Zan,

Sorry about the bad time. It certainly gives insight as to where you are coming from and no one should have to tolerate that crap about all things a musician playing a song for God's sakes. But remember that from 'my side' I've heard people bash Dennis since I was in junior high (he's an easy target) so I too get defensive when he gets slammed on this board. There's plenty of idiots to go around this world for sure.

Hey, no problem, Derri. I always had to defend "Styx" growing up because THEY always got ragged on but never any individual in the group. My feelings about/for Dennis as a person just aren't very favorable. I don't care who said what to who or who believes what that so-and-so said. I think actions speak louder than words, and DDY has never impressed me on any level as a person (altho, I did hear ONE cool story about him once, I admit). As far as "his" music goes, I like the old days before he went soft and his attempts at rock started to suck. Again, this is strictly MO. My opinions about this band vs. DDY and that whole fiasco are that sometimes people have to lie in the beds they make, sucky as it may be - I do not and will not believe that JY and Tommy are so evil that they just decided to be greedy and "steal" the band from Dennis - that isn't the reality that I live in, it just isn't. I believe there were legitimate reasons for what they did, and that it's a lot harder to live in a situation than to stand on the sidelines and say "they shouldn't do that." As an artist, Dennis DeYoung is exceptional - particularly as a singer, and I will defend Styx music probably 'til the day I die. But him - no thanks. I don't care how many people he recruits.

Now that THAT'S off my chest, I'll say this: Any person who gets so worked up (rabid) over a frickin' rock band has serious mental/emotional issues and should be institutionalized. Argue, get irritated, pissed, whatever you want, but when you take it to a personal level like some of these freaks did, you're a sick puppy. And to tell you the truth, Derri, after awhile (and SO many "problems" with various "fans"), I stopped keeping track of who was a nutjob and who wasn't. When I would start to see phrases like "Dennis wrote 8 out of 10 of their top ten hits..." and "Shaw put the money up his nose," a little red flag would pop up for me, and they'd automatically be written off as a wack. So for that, I apologize, but it took me a long time to get to that point, and from I heard back in the day from friends and acquaintences that spoke to him, Dennis and his camp were encouraging people to get up in arms about the situation - and some people took it to the extreme - I don't hold him responsible, but he's not blameless in my eyes either.

That said, I'm TOLD that Dennis is no longer that person. If that's true, I think it's great. But I have my reservations, and given that a couple people here have gone backstage recently and come back more up in arms then usual, I'm that much more doubtful. Again, my opinion. I'm sure some disagree with it, and that's ok too. lol

I appreciate your post, Derri. I'm glad you enjoy Dennis and his music. Whatever the reasons are for your stance, they're your own, and that's cool with me, just as it is with anyone here (except maybe Froy - haha).

Suite - I'm sorry you had bad experiences with bad seeds too. I think it's shitty. However, in my situation, a lot of these people weren't trying to gather information about the band or the band's situation, they were trying to get information about ME. They hated me THAT MUCH for the position I took regarding this band. I say f*ck 'em.

You've made some pretty serious accusations in this post. I certainly would like to see PROOF of what you say.

[StyxCollector]

I've seen the orchestra show, not the rock show, and it was...good. I enjoyed it, albeit a little boring at times (I honestly don't enjoy hearing "Babe," Best of Times," "Don't let it End," "Lady," or "Show Me the Way" (especially accapella with Suzanne ). Esmerelda is excrutiating. I know Froy likes it because Dennis' little vibrato moves up and down in his cute little neck when he sings it, but I almost fell alseep. Castle Walls and Pieces of Eight were very cool tho. I laughed at his "old" jokes: "Quick, let's go see him, he'll be dead soon" was hysterical.

I do understand how those (like Froy) who get gooey over songs like Esmerelda would find Dennis' shows more enjoyable. And the ones who are under the evil spell.

Again, I like both lineups but the last time other than the medley, the Styx show had me bored to tears. It's basically the same show I've seen sans one or two songs since 1999. I've found DDY to change some of his set more. If you've read some of my reviews, that's been my criticism of this Styx lineup. With DDY out of the band, where's "Midnight Ride"? Where is "Best Thing" (which JY can sing if he wants)? This is why I've been more entertained at Journey shows sometimes than Styx shows (current controversy out of the picture). They have pulled out deeper album cuts even in 90 minute sets. The last tour where they did the whole hour of the early stuff kicked ass - I like pre-Perry Journey. I'm not saying Styx needs to pump out a set of Wooden Nickel material, and their voices are not shot, so why just do medley? Do some full songs, make us die hards come out and want to see you. This is the main reason I can go years inbetween seeing them now. Even the possibility of new songs which used to draw me out no longer does. They've got to bring more to the table. In the original 3 hour Evening With ... format, about as obscure as you got was "Half-Penny, Two Penny". Wow. Bowl me over. They were good shows, I always walked away dissapointed at the lost potential.

I'd agree that "Show Me The Way" a capella is painful. I've never liked it from moment one I heard it. It's much better with music, and I was hoping at the Glen shows the music would finally come back. It didn't. At the two NJ shows he did nothing from Hunchback - I think the loss of Dawn Marie cemented that, or it's relegated to orchestral shows. It's been about two or three years since I've seen one. A current DDY show reminds me more of a classic Styx show. A current Styx show has some of that element, but is more of a standard rock show.

Now, I don't enjoy Gowan doing "Lady" or "Come Sail Away" - I just don't like his voice on them. He's better on "Grand Illusion". I would prefer it if they kept songs like "A Criminal Mind" in or the stuff he did on Cyclorama more. What he brings to the band isn't bad when he doesn't have to sing DDY songs IMO. He's not the same vocalist, but it's also why I applaud them again for going that route and not a soundalike.

DDY's voice has gotten less and less affected over the years the more he does the rock thing. The vibrato thing is much closer to where it was, say, in 1991.

[froy]

My feelings about/for Dennis as a person just aren't very favorable.

And you are somebody important?
Na just a Tommy kiss ass thats obvious.

I don't care who said what to who or who believes what that so-and-so said. I think actions speak louder than words, and DDY has never impressed me on any level as a person

Than your not a STYX fan never was never will be.

As far as "his" music goes, I like the old days before he went soft and his attempts at rock started to suck.

Did you like the old days with Shaw also because his attempts at Rock sucked even more.
I guess Zan does not allow for anyone to mature in there musical styles.
Dennis is in his 50s The Born For Adventures are long gone
Women Wiskey and Sin are now Esmerelda let me be your guardian angel
Ill take both thank you,

Again, this is strictly MO.

And its worthless.

My opinions about this band vs. DDY and that whole fiasco are that sometimes people have to lie in the beds they make,

I agree Dennis led STYX to 4 platinum cds and he is and was the leader of STYX
JY and Shaw take over and down goes STYX.
Talk about a dirty bed.

sucky as it may be

Thats current STYX Yep

- I do not and will not believe that JY and Tommy are so evil that they just decided to be greedy and "steal" the band from Dennis -

Poor blind fool .
You believe whatever you want.

I believe there were legitimate reasons for what they did,

Really name 1.

As an artist, Dennis DeYoung is exceptional - particularly as a singer, and I will defend Styx music probably 'til the day I die. But him - no thanks. I don't care how many people he recruits.

What drugs are you on Zan ?

Now that THAT'S off my chest,

No comment.

I'll say this: Any person who gets so worked up (rabid) over a frickin' rock band has serious mental/emotional issues and should be institutionalized.

I knew you had issues Zan but not this bad.

When I would start to see phrases like "Dennis wrote 8 out of 10 of their top ten hits..." and "Shaw put the money up his nose," a little red flag would pop up for me, and they'd automatically be written off as a wack.

The truth hurts Zan doesnt it
So you are saying Shaw was not on coke?
JY admitted it to me at breakfast in Vegas.
Your the sick puppy Zan thats for sure

[Zan]

I guess Zan does not allow for anyone to mature in there musical styles.
Dennis is in his 50s The Born For Adventures are long gone
Women Wiskey and Sin are now Esmerelda let me be your guardian angel
Ill take both thank you,

Like I said, there's no accounting for taste. lol

An artist can do whatever she or he wants - my tastes change with age as well - when I was 13, Music Time was a good song.

- I do not and will not believe that JY and Tommy are so evil that they just decided to be greedy and "steal" the band from Dennis -

Poor blind fool .
You believe whatever you want.

lol - likewise, sheep.

As an artist, Dennis DeYoung is exceptional - particularly as a singer, and I will defend Styx music probably 'til the day I die. But him - no thanks. I don't care how many people he recruits.

What drugs are you on Zan ?[/quote]



You're right - he's not *that* exceptional as a singer either.

The truth hurts Zan doesnt it
So you are saying Shaw was not on coke?
JY admitted it to me at breakfast in Vegas.
Your the sick puppy Zan thats for sure

Tommy admitted it on BTM, you name-dropping bufoon.

Boy, you sure are fired up! Something must have you hot under the collar! Don't worry - you will be rewarded for your undying loyalty. Now go take a cold shower.

[Monker]

Damn...Froy made it through an entire post without screwing up his quotes. It either means Andrew has to give him a prize, or shut the forum down - cuz I am sure this will never happen again.

My feelings about/for Dennis as a person just aren't very favorable.

And you are somebody important?
Na just a Tommy kiss ass thats obvious.

I don't care who said what to who or who believes what that so-and-so said. I think actions speak louder than words, and DDY has never impressed me on any level as a person

Than your not a STYX fan never was never will be.

As far as "his" music goes, I like the old days before he went soft and his attempts at rock started to suck.

Did you like the old days with Shaw also because his attempts at Rock sucked even more.
I guess Zan does not allow for anyone to mature in there musical styles.
Dennis is in his 50s The Born For Adventures are long gone
Women Wiskey and Sin are now Esmerelda let me be your guardian angel
Ill take both thank you,

Again, this is strictly MO.

And its worthless.

My opinions about this band vs. DDY and that whole fiasco are that sometimes people have to lie in the beds they make,

I agree Dennis led STYX to 4 platinum cds and he is and was the leader of STYX
JY and Shaw take over and down goes STYX.
Talk about a dirty bed.

sucky as it may be

Thats current STYX Yep

- I do not and will not believe that JY and Tommy are so evil that they just decided to be greedy and "steal" the band from Dennis -

Poor blind fool .
You believe whatever you want.

I believe there were legitimate reasons for what they did,

Really name 1.

As an artist, Dennis DeYoung is exceptional - particularly as a singer, and I will defend Styx music probably 'til the day I die. But him - no thanks. I don't care how many people he recruits.

What drugs are you on Zan ?

Now that THAT'S off my chest,

No comment.

I'll say this: Any person who gets so worked up (rabid) over a frickin' rock band has serious mental/emotional issues and should be institutionalized.

I knew you had issues Zan but not this bad.

When I would start to see phrases like "Dennis wrote 8 out of 10 of their top ten hits..." and "Shaw put the money up his nose," a little red flag would pop up for me, and they'd automatically be written off as a wack.

The truth hurts Zan doesnt it
So you are saying Shaw was not on coke?
JY admitted it to me at breakfast in Vegas.
Your the sick puppy Zan thats for sure

[froy]

Damn...Froy made it through an entire post without screwing up his quotes. It either means Andrew has to give him a prize, or shut the forum down - cuz I am sure this will never happen again.

My feelings about/for Dennis as a person just aren't very favorable.

And you are somebody important?
Na just a Tommy kiss ass thats obvious.

I don't care who said what to who or who believes what that so-and-so said. I think actions speak louder than words, and DDY has never impressed me on any level as a person

Than your not a STYX fan never was never will be.

As far as "his" music goes, I like the old days before he went soft and his attempts at rock started to suck.

Did you like the old days with Shaw also because his attempts at Rock sucked even more.
I guess Zan does not allow for anyone to mature in there musical styles.
Dennis is in his 50s The Born For Adventures are long gone
Women Wiskey and Sin are now Esmerelda let me be your guardian angel
Ill take both thank you,

Again, this is strictly MO.

And its worthless.

My opinions about this band vs. DDY and that whole fiasco are that sometimes people have to lie in the beds they make,

I agree Dennis led STYX to 4 platinum cds and he is and was the leader of STYX
JY and Shaw take over and down goes STYX.
Talk about a dirty bed.

sucky as it may be

Thats current STYX Yep

- I do not and will not believe that JY and Tommy are so evil that they just decided to be greedy and "steal" the band from Dennis -

Poor blind fool .
You believe whatever you want.

I believe there were legitimate reasons for what they did,

Really name 1.

As an artist, Dennis DeYoung is exceptional - particularly as a singer, and I will defend Styx music probably 'til the day I die. But him - no thanks. I don't care how many people he recruits.

What drugs are you on Zan ?

Now that THAT'S off my chest,

No comment.

I'll say this: Any person who gets so worked up (rabid) over a frickin' rock band has serious mental/emotional issues and should be institutionalized.

I knew you had issues Zan but not this bad.

When I would start to see phrases like "Dennis wrote 8 out of 10 of their top ten hits..." and "Shaw put the money up his nose," a little red flag would pop up for me, and they'd automatically be written off as a wack.

The truth hurts Zan doesnt it
So you are saying Shaw was not on coke?
JY admitted it to me at breakfast in Vegas.
Your the sick puppy Zan thats for sure

Cat got your tongue Monker ?

[froy]

I guess Zan does not allow for anyone to mature in there musical styles.
Dennis is in his 50s The Born For Adventures are long gone
Women Wiskey and Sin are now Esmerelda let me be your guardian angel
Ill take both thank you,

Like I said, there's no accounting for taste. lol

An artist can do whatever she or he wants - my tastes change with age as well - when I was 13, Music Time was a good song.

And whats a good song today Zan

The truth hurts Zan doesnt it
So you are saying Shaw was not on coke?
JY admitted it to me at breakfast in Vegas.
Your the sick puppy Zan thats for sure

Tommy admitted it on BTM, you name-dropping bufoon.

Add bufoon to the list.

Now go take a cold shower.

I'll be right in sweetie

[Zan]

You've made some pretty serious accusations in this post. I certainly would like to see PROOF of what you say.

You mean you don't believe me, Annie??? lol

Color me shocked.

They're really not that serious. It's not like he murdered anyone and threw his gloves in a nearby trash can. (Do we know who killed OJ's wife yet, by the way?)

But given Dennis' past interviews and the content of said interviews - which had a clear "agenda" (my, how internet people love using that word!), nothing my close friends told me that they experienced surprised me. If I had known that 6 years later, I'd be asked for PROOF of these things from a one of my all-time fans on the melodic rock board, I would have sent 'em in with a wire pronto! You know how important my fans are to me and all.

[Zan]

And whats a good song today Zan

I'm sorry - are we having a conversation now?

The truth hurts Zan doesnt it
So you are saying Shaw was not on coke?
JY admitted it to me at breakfast in Vegas.
Your the sick puppy Zan thats for sure

Tommy admitted it on BTM, you name-dropping bufoon.

Add bufoon to the list.

It's "name-dropping bufoon," thank you.

Now go take a cold shower.[/color]

I'll be right in sweetie

Sorry - Dennis isn't here.