Just Be info

[bugsymalone]

I am going to agree with Monker here. But bootlegs often do not give you the best quality sound to judge any song from, much less a new one.

I listened to (and watched) both the Current Styx new (?) songs that were linked. I was too distracted by what Tommy was wearing to get an impression of "Everything All the Time." (Maybe I need to listen and not look. )

"Just Be" is .... oh I better not go there.

Not impressed with either song -- yet. But I am willing to give both studio versions a listen. I think it was "Just Be" that had the nice harmony?

Was WAY more impressed with the retro "All for Love" I heard Dennis and Glen do.

Bugsy

[Monker]

Gave the song a listen. I think the 'showkiller' comment is spot on. Not terrible, but nowhere near good. It kinda has a Pink Floyd feel to it.

Look, in the Rush tribute band I'm in we try to come up with setlists we think flow and work. Even we can recognize when a certain song can kill the flow of a set. Heck, even stuff we think will work will wind up not working for one reason or another. Point is, that is a definite bathroom/beer break for the casual fan dead smack in the middle of a set. You play that one in your last 3 - 5 songs, you're screwed. Same with the beginning of the set. But if you set it in the middle and keep that tempo, you may kill any momentum you built up.

Yeah, but you don't have future to build by writing, and performing, NEW songs. Styx does. I'd rather have them perform a new song that I feel is mediocre then hear some 30+ year old song that hardly anybody in the audience even cares about, like you suggest.

IMO, it doesn't matter what they do...Someone is always going to complain. So, why not do what they want to do (new songs) and need to do (their version of the "dirty dozen")? If that is what they want to do, and can make a living at it, and have fun doing it, then what all of you critics say is a bit irrelevant.

Most of you complain that the 'set is always the same"...now they add some new songs, and you complain about those, too.

[StyxCollector]

Yeah, but you don't have future to build by writing, and performing, NEW songs. Styx does. I'd rather have them perform a new song that I feel is mediocre then hear some 30+ year old song that hardly anybody in the audience even cares about, like you suggest.

I want to hear new songs, but not set killers. There's a reason "Yes I Can" was never played live, and it ain't because it doesn't rock. New songs or old (and try to play anything post-1981 to some RUsh fans!), your set has to work. "Just Be" doesn't seem like a great live tune. It may make a wonderful album track.

IMO, it doesn't matter what they do...Someone is always going to complain. So, why not do what they want to do (new songs) and need to do (their version of the "dirty dozen")? If that is what they want to do, and can make a living at it, and have fun doing it, then what all of you critics say is a bit irrelevant.

Most of you complain that the 'set is always the same"...now they add some new songs, and you complain about those, too.

Like Jourmey, I fully expect to hear certain songs every time. That I'm actually not complaining about at all. It's par for the course. What I am complaining about is putting songs - new or old - that drag the energy out of a set or just aren't very good. In 99 - 01 when Styx did portions of BNW, by the end, only EIC and IWBYW stayed. WHy? They were the strongest songs live even though people didn't really know them.

Think of Journey's tour last summer - the Generations tracks were the bathroom breaks for a lot of people. The sad truth is that everyone except the die hards just wants the hits.

[Monker]

I want to hear new songs, but not set killers.

They don't know if it's a 'set killer' unless they play it. And, you don't really know if it is, unless you've seen it.

There's a reason "Yes I Can" was never played live, and it ain't because it doesn't rock.

Because it's a Styx show and not a Shaw/Blades show. If Shaw/Blades recorded it and they toured, they would play it.

"Just Be" doesn't seem like a great live tune. It may make a wonderful album track.

You can't prove that to me by that video. It may not be 'great', but I don't know if it's bad.

Like Jourmey, I fully expect to hear certain songs every time. That I'm actually not complaining about at all. It's par for the course. What I am complaining about is putting songs - new or old - that drag the energy out of a set or just aren't very good. In 99 - 01 when Styx did portions of BNW, by the end, only EIC and IWBYW stayed. WHy? They were the strongest songs live even though people didn't really know them.

And, they don't know if the two new songs are going to go over well unless they perform them...just as they did with the 'other' songs on BNW, or what Journey did early on in the last tour. If they bomb, maybe they'll cut them. If they go through the trouble of writing and recording a new song, they should at least give it a chance live.

Think of Journey's tour last summer - the Generations tracks were the bathroom breaks for a lot of people. The sad truth is that everyone except the die hards just wants the hits.

Of course...and you suggest puting "Midnight Ride" in the set? You don't think that's going to be a bathroom break for a LOT of people. Of course it is.

[StyxCollector]

Because it's a Styx show and not a Shaw/Blades show. If Shaw/Blades recorded it and they toured, they would play it.

Er, no. "Yes I Can" is a STYX song that happens to be written by Jack & Tommy. It is NOT a Shaw/Blades tune. If Styx had that much confidence in it, they would have aired it.

You can't prove that to me by that video. It may not be 'great', but I don't know if it's bad.

I've heard a few live recordings - not that one video only. It seems squarely to be an album cut at best.

And, they don't know if the two new songs are going to go over well unless they perform them...just as they did with the 'other' songs on BNW, or what Journey did early on in the last tour. If they bomb, maybe they'll cut them. If they go through the trouble of writing and recording a new song, they should at least give it a chance live.

That sentiment I agree with. Looks like JB isn't making the cut. I'm reserving full judgement 'til I hear a studio version, but the few versions I've heard live just don't cut it. QUality aside, the tempos are the same and you get a good sense of the tune.

Of course...and you suggest puting "Midnight Ride" in the set? You don't think that's going to be a bathroom break for a LOT of people. Of course it is.

MR actually used to close their show. It did that for a reason.

[styxfanNH]

Monker,
From the couple of cuts I've heard of Just Be, it is a definite momentum change from the standard set they have been playing. I'll probably hear it at the show in a couple of weeks, but I am going to guess the lines at the bathroom will be long.

Whether you like the old set or not, once the show started, there wasn't a song that cleared the audience. Just Be certainly appears to be that. Not because it is a new song, but because of its tempo. Clearly an album cut, probably not a great live cut other than they may be trying to use it as a bridge for the orchestral show and familiarity with the song.

It also departs from JY's montra of "we are a rock" band. At least in the way he intends that to mean.

[DerriD]

My wife is a Duran Duran fan from back in the hey day. I have to admit they have more than a couple of songs that I like as well. They were in town a couple of years back in support of their "Thank You" album which was an album of covers. Many of those songs were far from the Duran mold and were of a vastly different tempo than the songs they are known for making. Right in the middle of their set they played SIX of those songs in a row. Nearly half an hour of slow songs that hardly anyone had heard of. Absolutely killed the show. No bathroom break was long enough for that.

It was so bad that people around us were actually getting pissed that they weren't hearing familiar material. Their show was essentially 45 minutes of energy and people dancing, followed by 30 minutes of people sitting (some leaving) and waiting for the next 'hit' and then another 45 minutes of energy. Two years later Duran came back to town and played a MUCH smaller venue. Did that huge lull in the show keep people away the following time? Hard to say. That long of a momentum killer couldn't have helped.

Now with Styx is one song going to do that? Of course not, but it can make the show less enjoyable. Bands know this and need to be careful of just how much unfamiliar material to play live, especially slow new material.

[styxfanNH]

My wife is a Duran Duran fan from back in the hey day. I have to admit they have more than a couple of songs that I like as well. They were in town a couple of years back in support of their "Thank You" album which was an album of covers. Many of those songs were far from the Duran mold and were of a vastly different tempo than the songs they are known for making. Right in the middle of their set they played SIX of those songs in a row. Nearly half an hour of slow songs that hardly anyone had heard of. Absolutely killed the show. No bathroom break was long enough for that.

It was so bad that people around us were actually getting pissed that they weren't hearing familiar material. Their show was essentially 45 minutes of energy and people dancing, followed by 30 minutes of people sitting (some leaving) and waiting for the next 'hit' and then another 45 minutes of energy. Two years later Duran came back to town and played a MUCH smaller venue. Did that huge lull in the show keep people away the following time? Hard to say. That long of a momentum killer couldn't have helped.

Now with Styx is one song going to do that? Of course not, but it can make the show less enjoyable. Bands know this and need to be careful of just how much unfamiliar material to play live, especially slow new material.

Styx is smart enough not to drop 30 minutes of unfamiliar material into a set, especially as a block. They have scattered the songs throughout the set so they have less of an impact. The cover tunes, while less known, are still fairly well known by the public at large. This is why they don't do the obscure stuff off BBT - especially when only a small percentage of the audience probably even heas the album.

You are right, one song isn't going to be a killer that drives fans away. But it is a momentum killer if it is vastly different than the songs that surround it. And put one or two of those in a 90 minute set and could have a big impact on the show.

[StyxCollector]

It was so bad that people around us were actually getting pissed that they weren't hearing familiar material. Their show was essentially 45 minutes of energy and people dancing, followed by 30 minutes of people sitting (some leaving) and waiting for the next 'hit' and then another 45 minutes of energy. Two years later Duran came back to town and played a MUCH smaller venue. Did that huge lull in the show keep people away the following time? Hard to say. That long of a momentum killer couldn't have helped.

Now with Styx is one song going to do that? Of course not, but it can make the show less enjoyable. Bands know this and need to be careful of just how much unfamiliar material to play live, especially slow new material.

Exactly. And this is why at this point there is NO excuse for playing at least Roboto and BoT. Give the fans what they want. You don't get repeat customers by not satisfying them. Will 5 - 10 minutes a night really be that painful for JY?

For better or worse (read: Augeri's voice), Journey does Faithfully, Open Arms, and usually Who's Cryin' Now in the SAME SET. People walk away happy.

[StyxCollector]

Was WAY more impressed with the retro "All for Love" I heard Dennis and Glen do.

Fans identify a band by its signature sound - "All For Love", while a more modern sounding song (a la 1991), has that 'Styx vibe' to it. A lot of stuff the current band is doing is decent, but doesn't have that vibe for whatever reason. Are there harmonies? Yes. Is there synth and guitar? Yes.

It's not even a DDY vs. Styx thing - it boils down to knowing your audience and giving them what they want whether new or old. EIC sounded like a Styx song. Most of the rest of that album didn't.

[Monker]

Er, no. "Yes I Can" is a STYX song that happens to be written by Jack & Tommy. It is NOT a Shaw/Blades tune. If Styx had that much confidence in it, they would have aired it.

My point is that it woudl sound more at home in a Shaw/Blades concert then in a Styx concert. Are you going to disagree with that?

I've heard a few live recordings - not that one video only. It seems squarely to be an album cut at best.

"It seems" is a lot different then saying you KNOW. You don't. Not until you sit in the audience and see how THEY react.

Looks like JB isn't making the cut.

How exactly do you know that? From a few boots? I don't think that's nearly enough 'evidence'.

I'm reserving full judgement 'til I hear a studio version

Even hearing a studio version isn't going to tell you how it is going over live. If you are sitting in the audience and everybody gets up and leaves, then you'll have a point. If that is happening, I doubt they would keep playing. I think you are letting YOUR opinion of the song influence how you think everybody else will react. Styx is facing the crowd, and they know.

MR actually used to close their show. It did that for a reason.

And, exactly how many years ago was that? It's a different crowd today. I'll bet half the people there have never even heard that song.

[StyxCollector]

My point is that it woudl sound more at home in a Shaw/Blades concert then in a Styx concert. Are you going to disagree with that?

Yes I am. If it was a S/B recording, then it belongs in a S/B show. Any Styx song in their catalog technically is fair game live, no matter how lame it is. What you said is akin to saying "Departure" should only have ever been played at a NS solo show because only he wrote it, or that "Any Way You Want It" shouldn't be played by Journey because Steve and Neal wrote it together, and Steve's no longer there. "Yes I Can" is a Styx track on their last studio album recorded by most of this lineup (sans Ricky).

"It seems" is a lot different then saying you KNOW. You don't. Not until you sit in the audience and see how THEY react.

I have yet to hear many people here or those I've talked to who have seen them live truly gush over it. Guess they don't count.

Looks like JB isn't making the cut.

How exactly do you know that? From a few boots? I don't think that's nearly enough 'evidence'.

If they've dropped it from the set, it's not a great indication of faith.

I'm reserving full judgement 'til I hear a studio version

Even hearing a studio version isn't going to tell you how it is going over live. If you are sitting in the audience and everybody gets up and leaves, then you'll have a point. If that is happening, I doubt they would keep playing. I think you are letting YOUR opinion of the song influence how you think everybody else will react. Styx is facing the crowd, and they know.

That song is DOA. Bands play through people getting up all the time. I've seen it on plenty of concerts - nearly every one - but they play on anyway so your argument is stupid. Bands play what they want sometimes regardless of what the audience wants.

MR actually used to close their show. It did that for a reason.

And, exactly how many years ago was that? It's a different crowd today. I'll bet half the people there have never even heard that song.

Late 70s, but if the crowd is a "rock" crowd (sic), they should love the hell out of it. It fits in with the supposed new band motif, or did you miss JY's memo?

[gr8dane]

I find that some bands start of with the new stuff like 2-3 or 4 songs .They want to play them and give them a chance.People are setling in and if you want to take notice you can,and by then the concert will take off and play the familiar stuff and everybody is happy.The flow will not unflow, if you know what I mean.

[tommyluvr2]

I've relized that musical taste varies quite abit. I've heard Just Be twice live and have to agree that it is very weak. It a beer/bathroom break song for sure and way too slow for the live show.

I can't see the comparison to Kiss Me Hello which I think is an awesome song. For a group of professional song writers and musicians Just be is too simplistic. The words are good but the melody and musical part is too simple too slow. I think this is where Dennis input is totally missed, the creative side.

Denise

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I think this is where Dennis input is totally missed, the creative side.

Denise

You don't know what you have until it's gone........................ I'm sure they know that

[styxfanNH]

I think this is where Dennis input is totally missed, the creative side.

Denise

You don't know what you have until it's gone........................ I'm sure they know that

all but one knows that

[StyxCollector]

As I've said before, I can see a DDY/TS fronted Styx again. But I can't see a Styx with both JY and DDY in the same band again. Tommy has always made a choice based on his overall needs. I mean, he went from never wanting to go back to Styx when I talked to him in 1993 to 1996 and beyond where he is again.

All JY has is Styx at this point and he's going to hang on for dear life. If he shoots himself in the foot while doing it, well, he'll do it.

The thing is, I have not interviewed Dennis for quite awhile, but I'd say he's happy at this point. He has had to start from scratch and has had decent success. The odds have been stacked against him to even have the success he's had. So why would you go back to a situation that may end up in the same place again? It makes no sense.

The perfect time to reunite would have been the 30th for Grand Illusion and say, done the whole album start to finish (as Pink Floyd did with Dark Side on parts of The Divison Bell tour). That would have been an event. Instead,you'll see another Styx album with the Gowan lineup, another solo DDY record, some touring, and I think after that the rumblings may start again. However, at that point you're looking at 2008/2009/2010, and who will really care? I don't even know if I will! LOL

The other interesting thing to chew on in all of this is how long the contracts for Gowan, Ricky, and Todd last ...

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I'll always care Allan

DDY and Tommy together??? No way??

I'm sure you'll have your DDY interview soon, when you do, can we submit a few questions or do you have a ton already?

Wouldn't that be great if Dennis and Glen wrote a few songs together? I'd like that!

Things always happen for a reason, that's all I know!!

[Zan]

Wouldn't that be great if Dennis and Glen wrote a few songs together? I'd like that!

Dennis is perfectly capable of writing songs on his own, you know. And he's been doing it longer than Glen too!

[pinkfloyd1973]

Wouldn't that be great if Dennis and Glen wrote a few songs together? I'd like that!

Dennis is perfectly capable of writing songs on his own, you know. And he's been doing it longer than Glen too!

ROTFLMFAO, ok Zannie you got me there. I would actually love to hear Dennis and Glen write together again, I don't think i've heard a Dennis/Glen song that I didn't like

Robin

[StyxCollector]

DDY and Tommy together??? No way??

I'm sure you'll have your DDY interview soon, when you do, can we submit a few questions or do you have a ton already?

Haven't formulated the questions but I'm sure I could come up with some easily. I tend to wait since it has to be timely and what's going on at the time of the interview.

It would be interesting if a new Styx lineup was Tommy, Glen, Dennis, Todd, and Hank (not Glen on bass; Glen would be the 2nd gtr). Discuss.

[StyxCollector]

ROTFLMFAO, ok Zannie you got me there. I would actually love to hear Dennis and Glen write together again, I don't think i've heard a Dennis/Glen song that I didn't like

GB is a good foil for DDY. He writes at DDY's level of songwriting, so you can tell there is a 'language' there. Glen is also versatile, so he brings things to the table that some others may not.

"All In A Day's Work" is a great song.

[Zan]

GB is a good foil for DDY. He writes at DDY's level of songwriting, so you can tell there is a 'language' there.

Um, Allan? What in the hell are you talking about?

[Rockwriter]

Styx is smart enough not to drop 30 minutes of unfamiliar material into a set, especially as a block. They have scattered the songs throughout the set so they have less of an impact. The cover tunes, while less known, are still fairly well known by the public at large. This is why they don't do the obscure stuff off BBT - especially when only a small percentage of the audience probably even heas the album.

You are right, one song isn't going to be a killer that drives fans away. But it is a momentum killer if it is vastly different than the songs that surround it. And put one or two of those in a 90 minute set and could have a big impact on the show.[/quote]


In Nashville at the Ryman in March of last year, the guys closed with CSA, then came back out and played all four of their covers in a row!!!!! It was INSANE. The first one was Ray Charles' "What'd I Say", and that was okay because there was a Ray Charles exhibit at the Country Music Hall of Fame at the time, and the movie RAY was so recent. But then they did Hendrix, and then"Walrus", and then one other cover. By the second one people were looking around like, "Are they gonna play 'Best of Times' or 'Renegade'? What are they doing?" By the third one and the fourth, people were streaming out both exits as if the concert were over. By the time time they came back for "Renegade", probably a third of the audience was gone, and then they stretched THAT out with the whole, "We've got to go . . ." thing, WAY too long, and people were continuing to leave. So many people had left that after the show, instead of being caught in traffic, I walked straight to my car and drove away without even having to pause. It was really bizarre. Other than that, the show was very, very good, but man, that was strange.


Sterling

[StyxCollector]

GB is a good foil for DDY. He writes at DDY's level of songwriting, so you can tell there is a 'language' there.

Um, Allan? What in the hell are you talking about?

As a musician, you get a vibe with others - either you lock in or you don't. As a bass player I inherently feel it especially with a drummer. There are only a handful of drummers over the years I've played with that I've really just locked in with at another level.

When it comes to songwriting, the same way. Before my friend moved back to Norway, we just had a sympatico that worked. Hard to explain if you've never experienced it.

[Zan]

When it comes to songwriting, the same way. Before my friend moved back to Norway, we just had a sympatico that worked. Hard to explain if you've never experienced it.

Well, I've never written songs, but I had something like that with my friend, Sandi, in our band as singers. For me, it was the way you explained it that made me scratch my head, but you cleared it up nicely in your second post.

[rajah2165]

As I've said before, I can see a DDY/TS fronted Styx again. But I can't see a Styx with both JY and DDY in the same band again. Tommy has always made a choice based on his overall needs. I mean, he went from never wanting to go back to Styx when I talked to him in 1993 to 1996 and beyond where he is again.

All JY has is Styx at this point and he's going to hang on for dear life. If he shoots himself in the foot while doing it, well, he'll do it.

The thing is, I have not interviewed Dennis for quite awhile, but I'd say he's happy at this point. He has had to start from scratch and has had decent success. The odds have been stacked against him to even have the success he's had. So why would you go back to a situation that may end up in the same place again? It makes no sense.

The perfect time to reunite would have been the 30th for Grand Illusion and say, done the whole album start to finish (as Pink Floyd did with Dark Side on parts of The Divison Bell tour). That would have been an event. Instead,you'll see another Styx album with the Gowan lineup, another solo DDY record, some touring, and I think after that the rumblings may start again. However, at that point you're looking at 2008/2009/2010, and who will really care? I don't even know if I will! LOL

The other interesting thing to chew on in all of this is how long the contracts for Gowan, Ricky, and Todd last ...

What Dennis should really do is do what Roger Waters did solo. Dennis should perform the real Kilroy Was Here show in its entirety the way it was supposed to be performed - not the dumbed down version that JY/Tommy made him change Kilroy into - that would draw some people.

[rajah2165]

Wouldn't that be great if Dennis and Glen wrote a few songs together? I'd like that!

Dennis is perfectly capable of writing songs on his own, you know. And he's been doing it longer than Glen too!

He already is writing songs with Glen - not sure why though. If I were Dennis I certainly wouldn't have given Glen the time of day after everything he said about me.

[AnnieOprah]

Wouldn't that be great if Dennis and Glen wrote a few songs together? I'd like that!

Dennis is perfectly capable of writing songs on his own, you know. And he's been doing it longer than Glen too!

He already is writing songs with Glen - not sure why though. If I were Dennis I certainly wouldn't have given Glen the time of day after everything he said about me.

Well that is certainly the Christian way to handle it... Nice ability to forgive that you have there..

[Jodes]

Rajah.. Kilroy is in the past.. NOBODY would want to see that in 2006. Hell, from what I've learned, many didn't want to see it in 1983!

Face it, Kilroy was a disaster, even Dennis says so!

Just be happy that Dennis might be recording a new CD this year, with or without Glen.

Just for the record, Dennis's 'control' was the reason why Glen left Styx in 92! Glen didn't want to work with him anymore! That and a certain leader of the band lost their record deal.

But I guess time heals all wounds!