Matthew wrote:You're like the guy on the Supertramp album cover....sitting on deckchair in the middle of a wrecked and polluted city saying: "Crisis...what crisis?"
As funny as that is you still haven't explained what the crisis is/was.
GENERATIONS was born of SA's desire to create a solo project. If he was/is the anvil chained around JOURNEY's neck as you like to suggest then WHY did they immediately jump on SA's ideas and use them to spark another JOURNEY album? JOURNEY must be the guy on Supertramp's cover, too!
Right. JOURNEY has been in such a crisis that they were compelled to hang onto the guy who single-handedly has been pulling them deeper into the abyss. What is SA - some king of svengali that has Neal and everyone else under some kind of hypnotic trance <insert creepy Ed Wood B-movie music here> "Steve Augeri is NOT the reason for the crisis as perceived on MR.com..."
Listen I already know that I'm a Fucktard, Idiot, Stupid, Jackass (Carlitto's favorite), etc., etc. Why don't you explain exactly what this crisis is/was! If you can't then it seems to me that it's a figment of imagination and not a reality.
FyreWyngz wrote:Didn't they just tour Europe for the first time EVER?
Matthew wrote:No - they toured Europe in 1980.
I guess my JOURNEY tour history is weak. I thought SP had always refused Europe. Thanks for the correction. See there, my high school woodshop teacher was right: "Stupid is forever - ignorance can be fixed."
Matthew wrote:Yet you - like most Augeri fans - have argued that there has been a decline but that it is not Journey's fault. The industry...the radio stations...the "times"...all these external factors have been blamed for the shortcomings of Journey's career since 1998.
We might disagree on the true reasons for the decline but to say that Journey haven't lost any status, media visibility or frontlist sales since TBF is absurd. Make up your mind, Fyre. Either there has been a decline or there hasn't.
First, I'm a JOURNEY fan. Referring to me as a SA fan is inaccurate and polarizes the discussion as I'm NOT an SA fan in the shadow which you're trying to cast. Ultimately, we're ALL JOURNEY fans.
Second, my mind has been clear on the "decline" since they released E5C4P3 in 1981!
Just as Herbie Herbert warned and predicted: when you get a #1 it's all downhill from there! However JOURNEY can still get a #1 SINGLE but chances of that happening in the melodic rock genre or adult contemporary are slim. That's why I jumped all over the Latin rhythm project when Neal first mentioned experimenting with it because I believe putting them into a new genre if only for a moment will open doors to a larger audience and ultimately bring them recognition that they will never see again in melodic rock and adult contemporary - they've been there and done them! Anyway, that's an entirely different argument and I'll leave it at that.
So E5C4P3 was their peak. FRONTIERS (1983) was a good follow-up and reached #2. ROR (1986) hit #4 after that and then the next declining event in JOURNEY's history came with SP's departure in 1988.
The band just wasted away until 1996 and TBF with the "original" lineup. That yielded a Grammy nomination but not the accolades perhaps that SP might've expected. So he bails AGAIN because of "hip issues". I don't deny he had issues. I'm saying that it may not have been the actual reason. As it's been known JOURNEY was offered a tremendous amount of money to tour so the money was there for SP to use for additional construction on his creepy Hollywood mansion so I think it's very possible that he saw little chance of JOURNEY ever reaching the heights enjoyed during the E5C4P3 years and that may have been too much to bear. Most will say it was his hip or recognition that his voice was shot but I suspect that what I posted here is just as possible if not more the real reason.
SO - did JOURNEY "recover" with TBF? Nope. They were merely awakened.
Then SA came along and helped breathe new life into a band that was bound to fade away into oblivion on the heels of SP's 2nd exiting. With him they've struggled through issues with SONY and probably more debilitating has been the current nostalgic-crazed fan base that want JOURNEY to do nothing more than play Don't Stop Believin' so that they can fantasize being 15 again and making out for the first time! If JOURNEY dares to play anything new then they risk everyone bailing on them for beers. That in itself is probably the BIGGEST obstacle they've faced but have yet to overcome.
For 8 years JOURNEYhas been a successful touring machine despite the downhill slope of:
1. Achieving their #1-album-day-in-the-sun back in 1981.
2. Losing SP not once but TWICE.
3. A gap in new studio activity from 1986-1996 (most employers would find that very questionable on your resume and probably decline your candidacy on that alone!).
4. The nostalgic fan base.
While you're focusing in ONLY on the last 8 years I'm considering the ENTIRE PICTURE.
FyreWyngz wrote:Can you tell me what you expected JOURNEY to do after losing SP?
Matthew wrote:Either shut up shop...or hire an A-list singer capable of generating enthusiasm within the record company...appealing to the majority of Journey fans.. performing convincingly on television....and so on.
Or...to do what Queen have done and do nostalgia tours without ever pretending they are the 'real deal' and without ever disrespecting or editing out the previous frontman.
Those are EXCELLENT options BUT considernig that Neal's regret has been that they didn't move on without SP after 1988 do you think he'd want to live to regret it AGAIN?
As I see it they chose to move on based on that regret. I can't find fault in that.
FyreWyngz wrote:How about after all of the label disruptions?
Matthew wrote:Ever asked yourself WHY the label didn't believe in the Augeri line-up?
Yes. It's because they didn't see the kind of $$$ that they saw with SP. That's entirely true but it doesn't take anything away from SA.
FyreWyngz wrote: Did you expect another E5C4P3?
Matthew wrote:Of course not - but if Journey could sell a million and have a hit single in 1996 it was possible for them to perform at a similar level only five years later....if they had hired the right singer.
I didn't think you did, either. So SA was "wrong"? How so? As far as I can tell the biggest wrong committed has been the pandering to the nostalgic audience and a forgotten music genre.
FyreWyngz wrote:Did you expect them to top Billboard again? Personally, I've never even expected ANY radio airplay as JOURNEY is perceived as DINOSAURS
Matthew wrote:So is Bob Segar...and he had a Top Ten album this year. Many other 'golden oldie' acts still have successful recording careers.
Cripes. I KNEW you were going to say this! I think we've had this discussion before. Bob Seger is Bob Seger. He's NOT a band with a largely divided fan base polarized between favorite singers. He doesn't have the ENORMOUS hurdles before him like JOURNEY has. Of course he can still "do it"! It's in no way a fair comparison.
There isn't a single "nostalgic" band out there right now in their original lineup from their #1 days enjoying similar success. To continuously compare JOURNEY now against JOURNEY of yesterday and/or JOURNEY of now against current "nostalgic" acts is the epitome of apples and oranges.
Matthew wrote:Yes, they've successfully survived on the nostalgia circuit because of the enduring appeal of the Perry era material...rather than due to any unique qualities Augeri brought to the band.
Come on Fyre...enough with the excuses....even if YOU enjoyed the Augeri era Journey have lost far more than they gained during his time as frontman.
What excuses? I've laid out a very accurate and lucid reality. You're so locked into hanging everything on SA that you can't see it. Maybe YOU are the guy on the Supertramp cover...?
My hope is that Neal would tell them to shove it!
Available @ 
of course there would be non-alcoholic beverages for sale as well and a nice place for the kiddies to run around.
