Tommy and Dennis

[froy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTTFjXpFWmM

[brywool]

That is such a dorky clip. Tommy is CLEARLY uncomfortable. I was watching this the other day. I thought the Kilroy movie was awesome, but the concert performance seemed pretty flat.

[Rockwriter]

That is such a dorky clip. Tommy is CLEARLY uncomfortable. I was watching this the other day. I thought the Kilroy movie was awesome, but the concert performance seemed pretty flat.

You know what, I know what you mean about him being uncomfortable, but there's just still something I really love about the CITA video. It was pretty trailblazing at that time. Not all of it holds up, but parts of it are still really cool. This is one of my favorite songs from that album, though I don't think it's the greatest performance of it. I love the vocal parts in this duet.


Sterling

[cittadeeno23]

I have this concert on VHS!
I saw this show in Berkley, California back in March of 1983.
I just remember leaving the show and everyone around me on the way out was singing and laughing and having a good time. Don't Let it End Reprise was a great way to end a show.

But I agree this wasn't their best performance. Tommy was clearly not happy.

They blew everyone away when they were an opening act in the mid-seventies. I remember Tommy saying that they were the opening band that ate everyone else's lunch. And he was right. They blew away every headliner they played with. Some of the shows I attended I almost felt sorry for the headliners. I beleive some bands refused to play with them because they didn't want to get embarrassed.

And the 1996 tour is still the best concert I have ever seen. It shows how good they can be when they are happy and all on the same page.

Jimmy

[cittadeeno23]

Tommy and Dennis just belong together.
I still get chills all over and a lump in my throat when I listen to them harmonize.
Listen to the end of 'Boat on a River' when Tommy is singing and Dennis joins in to help him out.

Pure magic.

[LordofDaRing]

Yeah that whole potrayal of the Kilroy concert on BTM was not the same show I saw in New Orleans in 1983 either. Nobody was booing or leaving the event.

[cittadeeno23]

Yeah, I was shocked when I heard that on BTM. I think he was exagerating. EVERYONE left the Kilroy Show I was at in a very good mood. I remember that very clearly.
I clearly remember heading for the exits and several people commenting on how great the show was.
NOBODY left that Berkley Concert early!

[brywool]

Never saw the show live. Had tickets, the band cancelled due to Tommy's "Hand injury". Funny though, I did get a poster for it. The poster for the show that never came.

[cinj]

Yeah that whole potrayal of the Kilroy concert on BTM was not the same show I saw in New Orleans in 1983 either. Nobody was booing or leaving the event.

BEWARE OF CRAFTY EDITING!!!!

If you look at the BTM show carefully, you'll notice the crowd is "booing" when Dr. Righteous is on stage - of course they don't show that on BTM since it makes better drama to make you think people were booing the overall Kilroy concert.

In case you've never seen the Kilroy concert (The Caught in the Act video, that is). Dr. Righteous comes out on stage during intermission and is booed by the faithful.

This is called "crafty editing" and its done quite frequently in documentaries to skew a presentation.

Cinj

[yogi]

That is ABSOLUTELY where the booing is coming from.

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

Tommy Shaw and Jim Cahil should be ashamed of the lies they told on BTM pertaining to the Texas Jam show.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bugsymalone]

That is ABSOLUTELY where the booing is coming from.

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

Tommy Shaw and Jim Cahil should be ashamed of the lies they told on BTM pertaining to the Texas Jam show.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, Yogi. I remember your telling me about this. Everyone must remember that VH1 had an agenda for the Styx BTM. In order to fulfill it, they had to use creative editing, one-sided reporting and, a bit of, uh, altering the truth.


Bugsy

[cinj]

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're the first person I've "met" that was actually there. Thank you for clarifying that! I saw them at the same venue in 1991 (were you there?). The atmosphere at the Texas Jam in 1983 sounds identical to 1991. A lot of extremely hot, tired and drunk lunatics pushing and shoving and starting fights all through the night. I remember DeYoung and Burtnik pleading with the crowd to calm down and "take a few steps back" because it was so rowdy that people were getting smashed up at the front against the stage.

Of course NONE of this was because of the "kind of music" that was being played. Yes, everyone at the venue I was at loved the show as well.

Sorry J.Y., but there are masses of people that liked your group better the way you were!

Cinj

[rajah2165]

That is ABSOLUTELY where the booing is coming from.

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

Tommy Shaw and Jim Cahil should be ashamed of the lies they told on BTM pertaining to the Texas Jam show.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tommy Shaw IS A LIAR! No doubts about that - he has done this time and time again throughout his life - that is a way an addict behaves - an Tommy still is one.

[Jodes]

Rajah, did Tommy Shaw spurn your advances or something? Jeez you seem bitter

[yogi]

I PROMISE you that if it were the Beatles or the Stones that had closed at the Cotton Bowl that day the EXACT same ending would have occured.

100+ degrees, Blue Laws shutting down alcohol sales on a Saturday night( when they are suppose to go into effect on Sunday), basically no working porta pots and police suddenly making arrests for public urination & rowdiness.

Styx's show was GREAT. It did take too long to get started that was their ONLY mistake.

The booing depicted was that of booing Dr. Rightous. It was suppose to happen that way. They booed rightous at every show.

I still CANT fathom WHY Tommy & Cahil would distort the facts like they did on BTM.

Sure they lost tons of money on that tour by playing smaller venues. So what?? Why lie about something you were such a big part of???

P.S. I saw The Edge Of The Century Tour in St. Paul. LOVED it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glen was Tommy Shaw X 10 the night I saw em. The entire show was on FIRE!!!!

P.S.S. I honestly hope that Sterling talks about this in his book. I am sure that he has uncovered the truth about The Dallas & Houston Kilroy shows. What was told on the BTM was a flat out lie.

P.S.S.S. In all seriousness there isnt too much that pisses me off pertaining to Styx and what has transpired over the years. Shit, its just music.
This though is the one topic that does piss me off. I was there and I know what happened. Granted I realize I was just in one small area at a HUGE stadium venue. Still I know what actually happened. Why Tommy and someone else(Cahil) that were in soooooo tight in creating this concept would flat out lie is beyond me. It's almost like the damn riots when people burned their own shit. Why lie about something that you created???

It blows my mind and pisses me off far more than anything JY has said over the years ever could.

[Grotelul]

That is ABSOLUTELY where the booing is coming from.

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

Tommy Shaw and Jim Cahil should be ashamed of the lies they told on BTM pertaining to the Texas Jam show.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tommy Shaw IS A LIAR! No doubts about that - he has done this time and time again throughout his life - that is a way an addict behaves - an Tommy still is one.

Okay Suzanne, you can stop hiding behind that other name. We all know you will defend your husband to death but this is ridiculous. Don't you have anything better to do?

[tommyluvr2]

Tried to watch the video, my space says its set to private.

Denise

[cinj]

I still CANT fathom WHY Tommy & Cahil would distort the facts like they did on BTM.


Why Tommy and someone else(Cahil) that were in soooooo tight in creating this concept would flat out lie is beyond me.

I haven't watched the BTM in awhile, but I seemed to recall that only Cahill bashed the Dallas (and Houston) show.

I remember Tommy saying he was afraid to go on stage and do "theatre" to the rowdy crowd ("I'm going to die in Texas tonight"), but I don't remember hearing him comment about how the show actually <I>went down</I>. If I'm right, we can again chalk it up to "crafty editing".
Maybe I need to watch it again.

P.S. I, too, was impressed with Burtnik during the Edge tour. I used to get pissed off when people used to always bash him because he "wasn't Tommy". Then, when he comes back to the band <I>with</I> Tommy - all of the sudden he's treated like royalty. Of course, the same thing might happen if DDY came back and for whatever reason, Gowan stayed in the band as well.

Cinj

[froy]

Of course, the same thing might happen if DDY came back and for whatever reason, Gowan stayed in the band as well.

Na don't think so

[froy]

Tried to watch the video, my space says its set to private.

Denise

will take care of that

[yogi]

Cinj,

I guess you are correct in what you wrote. Tommy did just state he thought they were going to get killed out there.

But what Tommy, Jim (Cahil), and VH1 led everyone to believe was that it was the Kilroy concept that started the riots(fighting), booing, the throwing of objects, and people leaving the jam etc......

The Kilroy show had NOTHING to do with what occured.

As I have stated numerous times Elvis, The Beatles, The Stones or AC/DC would of had the EXACT same results as Styx did pertaining to a SMALL minority of the crowd at The Texas Jam .

The fights and riots were 100% the total result of the heat, security, police, alcohol comsumption & Blues Laws being enforced on the wrong day.

95% of the people that stayed LOVED the show. Styx was the headline act for a reason. They were #1 at the time. They delivered that night as they do most every night.

Styx's ONLY mistake that night was taking toooo damn long to get their show started. While the crowd was waiting for Styx to take the stage was the ONLY time that I witnessed the crowd problems. It took em at least an hour to set up. Thats when a small minority of the crowd came unglued.

[rajah2165]

That is ABSOLUTELY where the booing is coming from.

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

Tommy Shaw and Jim Cahil should be ashamed of the lies they told on BTM pertaining to the Texas Jam show.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tommy Shaw IS A LIAR! No doubts about that - he has done this time and time again throughout his life - that is a way an addict behaves - an Tommy still is one.

Okay Suzanne, you can stop hiding behind that other name. We all know you will defend your husband to death but this is ridiculous. Don't you have anything better to do?

I'll get off the board as soon as you do, Hannah..

[cittadeeno23]

Thanks for clearing that up, Yogi. I knew the VH1 special was full of shit, I just wanted everyone else to know it.

"Don't go beleivin' what you see in Rock Videos, or TV or the magazines... Cuz that's all Bullshit!!"

[tommyluvr2]

Thanks for sharing that Froy, god I love that song Dennis and Tommy sing it so well together it gives me goose bumps anoyed or not, its a great song.

Denise

[Andrew]

That is ABSOLUTELY where the booing is coming from.

That crap that Tommy & Cahil spewed about the Texas Jam show(Cotton Bowl) NEVER happened.

Shit, I was there. They were great. 95% of the audience that stayed LOVED the show. Most everyone knew about the Kilroy concert and concept. There were articles in the paper (Dallas Morning News) detailing the bands and the show that the headline act ( Styx) was going to perform.

Tommy Shaw and Jim Cahil should be ashamed of the lies they told on BTM pertaining to the Texas Jam show.

The booing and the fights occured for other reasons.

Styx was great and the crowd LOVED em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tommy Shaw IS A LIAR! No doubts about that - he has done this time and time again throughout his life - that is a way an addict behaves - an Tommy still is one.

Dude, you need to give it a rest. Seriously. And NOW.

[Rockwriter]

I PROMISE you that if it were the Beatles or the Stones that had closed at the Cotton Bowl that day the EXACT same ending would have occured.

100+ degrees, Blue Laws shutting down alcohol sales on a Saturday night( when they are suppose to go into effect on Sunday), basically no working porta pots and police suddenly making arrests for public urination & rowdiness.

Styx's show was GREAT. It did take too long to get started that was their ONLY mistake.

The booing depicted was that of booing Dr. Rightous. It was suppose to happen that way. They booed rightous at every show.

I still CANT fathom WHY Tommy & Cahil would distort the facts like they did on BTM.

Sure they lost tons of money on that tour by playing smaller venues. So what?? Why lie about something you were such a big part of???

P.S. I saw The Edge Of The Century Tour in St. Paul. LOVED it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glen was Tommy Shaw X 10 the night I saw em. The entire show was on FIRE!!!!

P.S.S. I honestly hope that Sterling talks about this in his book. I am sure that he has uncovered the truth about The Dallas & Houston Kilroy shows. What was told on the BTM was a flat out lie.

P.S.S.S. In all seriousness there isnt too much that pisses me off pertaining to Styx and what has transpired over the years. Shit, its just music.
This though is the one topic that does piss me off. I was there and I know what happened. Granted I realize I was just in one small area at a HUGE stadium venue. Still I know what actually happened. Why Tommy and someone else(Cahil) that were in soooooo tight in creating this concept would flat out lie is beyond me. It's almost like the damn riots when people burned their own shit. Why lie about something that you created???

It blows my mind and pisses me off far more than anything JY has said over the years ever could.

I do talk about this in my book to a degree. I spoke with George Leemon (Dennis' keyboard tech) and Bob Garcia from A&M Records, who were both there back stage. Their story is somewhere in the middle . . . certainly not the debacle BTM depicted, but not a real triumph either, lol.
Bob Garcia pointed out that the early indoor theater dates of the show went really well, and it was only when they tried to do it outside in huge venues that it didn't work. He said something like (and this is from memory, I'm not looking at the text right now), "That was an interesting afternoon and evening. I think people were responding more to internal conflict. Things were getting antsy. I remember being at a gig where the band members were separate and I could not go from one area to another without express permission. Derek was not there, he probably would have knocked their heads together. In the right setting it worked. You don't go follow Sammy Hagar at twelve midnight at the Texas Jam and do what you did at the Pantages Theater. It was a venue of drunks, standing in dirt and all of that. But for better or worse, it was gonna happen, and it did - to a somewhat smaller crowd than had assembled earlier in the day."
George Leemon said, "You couldn't do the KILROY show outside very well. People that come to those kinds of events, they're partying hearty. They want to see out and out rock and roll, and this show had guys on stage delivering scripted lines. But no matter how bad it got, Tommy and Dennis would stand out there and deliver them verbatim. With Dennis, it was a gung-ho, on with the show attitude 99 percent of the time. The other one percent might be when he was having an off night or not feeling well. But I would see him go out some nights with a terrible cold or something and just wail out lead vocals on stage like nobody's business - a real tribute to the true lead singer he is - and then come off pissed off because he felt he'd been bad. But he'd given a hundrd and ten percent. He always would."

So there's at least a couple of other perspectives on that show. That whole period of time was just very tense and divided within the band. I think Tommy had already quit at that point and was only there by commitment to finish out the dates.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

[yogi]

Thanks Sterling!!!!

[Zan]

Thanks Andrew!

[Zan]

I still CANT fathom WHY Tommy & Cahil would distort the facts like they did on BTM.

Sure they lost tons of money on that tour by playing smaller venues. So what?? Why lie about something you were such a big part of???

Don't be fooled by what a television show portrays. We all know how much "reality" is in reality TV...I'm not saying he did lie, and I'm not saying he didn't lie, but I do know how creative editing works. From what I understand, VH-1 took a LOT of liberties where that was concerned, and NONE of the band members were happy with the end result.

P.S. I saw The Edge Of The Century Tour in St. Paul. LOVED it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glen was Tommy Shaw X 10 the night I saw em. The entire show was on FIRE!!!!

I don't know about 10x, but the shows I saw were certainly incredible, and Glen was on fire, no doubt.

I honestly hope that Sterling talks about this in his book. I am sure that he has uncovered the truth about The Dallas & Houston Kilroy shows. What was told on the BTM was a flat out lie.

P.S.S.S. In all seriousness there isnt too much that pisses me off pertaining to Styx and what has transpired over the years. Shit, its just music.
This though is the one topic that does piss me off. I was there and I know what happened. Granted I realize I was just in one small area at a HUGE stadium venue. Still I know what actually happened. Why Tommy and someone else(Cahil) that were in soooooo tight in creating this concept would flat out lie is beyond me. It's almost like the damn riots when people burned their own shit. Why lie about something that you created???

It blows my mind and pisses me off far more than anything JY has said over the years ever could.

See above response. You don't know that based on the few snippets of clips you saw on BTM.

That said, I'm sure you'll get over it. lol

P.S. I can't believe people are still arguing and/or believing everything about that show. I still CAN'T fathom THAT.

[Rockwriter]

I still CANT fathom WHY Tommy & Cahil would distort the facts like they did on BTM.

Sure they lost tons of money on that tour by playing smaller venues. So what?? Why lie about something you were such a big part of???

Don't be fooled by what a television show portrays. We all know how much "reality" is in reality TV...I'm not saying he did lie, and I'm not saying he didn't lie, but I do know how creative editing works. From what I understand, VH-1 took a LOT of liberties where that was concerned, and NONE of the band members were happy with the end result.

P.S. I saw The Edge Of The Century Tour in St. Paul. LOVED it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glen was Tommy Shaw X 10 the night I saw em. The entire show was on FIRE!!!!

I don't know about 10x, but the shows I saw were certainly incredible, and Glen was on fire, no doubt.

I honestly hope that Sterling talks about this in his book. I am sure that he has uncovered the truth about The Dallas & Houston Kilroy shows. What was told on the BTM was a flat out lie.

P.S.S.S. In all seriousness there isnt too much that pisses me off pertaining to Styx and what has transpired over the years. Shit, its just music.
This though is the one topic that does piss me off. I was there and I know what happened. Granted I realize I was just in one small area at a HUGE stadium venue. Still I know what actually happened. Why Tommy and someone else(Cahil) that were in soooooo tight in creating this concept would flat out lie is beyond me. It's almost like the damn riots when people burned their own shit. Why lie about something that you created???

It blows my mind and pisses me off far more than anything JY has said over the years ever could.

See above response. You don't know that based on the few snippets of clips you saw on BTM.

That said, I'm sure you'll get over it. lol

P.S. I can't believe people are still arguing and/or believing everything about that show. I still CAN'T fathom THAT.

I go into this in pretty great detail in the book, since I interviewed so many of the same people. I asked each of them in turn what they thought of the finished product of BTM, and no surprise, almost everyone was dissatisfied with the show's final edit.

Bob Garcia thought VH1 was simply trying to elicit negative reactions from everyone regarding the relationships between the band members, while ignoring that it was all of them together that made the band as good as it was. Jim Cahill thought they missed out on how good the run was at the top . . . from 1977 until 1982, how good that period was for the band, that's what he thought they missed. Derek Sutton thought the whole thing was unfair to Dennis, believe it or not, while Jim Vose thought VH1 was too nice to Dennis. Todd and Glen were both interviewed for more than an hour, then only tiny little quotes were used, and neither one felt represented. The new lineup was only barely touched on. VH1 didn't even try to talk to anyone from Wooden Nickel, didn't even try to talk to any of John Curulewski's family. I also feel that Dennis, JY and Tommy all came off badly, because VH1 took some negative things out of contect and broadcast them. The whole thing is really a bare bones storyline fleshed out by a lot of out of context footage that tells an overly simplified and overly dramatized version of the Styx story.

Having said that, hey, that's kinda what BTM is all about, isn't it? It's infotainment, not real journalism. Minus commercials you have 43 minutes to tell a story spanning more than thirty years . . . a little over a minute for each year of story. They also conducted the interviews at the worst possible time, at a time when people's recollections were colored by their anger at what was going on in deciding how to split up the business and assets of thirty years. It just didn't come off . . . but then again, it was enormously successful, and after it aired the Styx back catalog exploded in sales. So in that sense it was positive. That's TV junk journalism in a nutshell . . . you get the exposure and you pay the price.


Sterling