Just Finished Chuck's Book

[StyxCollector]

I'll do a formal review on the site in a few days when I'm done the last chapter for my book (nothing Styx related).

It's about what I expected and a good read. If you want a lot of juicy/gossipy stuff about Styx, there's not much. Styx is a constant theme through the book, but is not the dominant subject. Some of what he said is bound to cause a stir from people and will get debated on these boards I'm sure.

One thing I will say is that the saddest part for me was reading about John.

[blt man]

Some of what he said is bound to cause a stir from people and will get debated on these boards I'm sure.

I have not read the book yet but am wondering if he takes shots at all the band members or if he saves those for one member in particular.

[StyxCollector]

I have not read the book yet but am wondering if he takes shots at all the band members or if he saves those for one member in particular.

If you're wanting a DDY bash-fest, this isn't it. Does Chuck always have flattering things to say? No.

[GrandIllusionist725]

I got Chuck's book in today. Can't wait to read it. Im still on Sterlings book and its hard to find time but i know once im done, off to Chucks book!

[Rockwriter]

I'll do a formal review on the site in a few days when I'm done the last chapter for my book (nothing Styx related).

It's about what I expected and a good read. If you want a lot of juicy/gossipy stuff about Styx, there's not much. Styx is a constant theme through the book, but is not the dominant subject. Some of what he said is bound to cause a stir from people and will get debated on these boards I'm sure.

One thing I will say is that the saddest part for me was reading about John.

I read Chuck's book last night. I am going to re-read it again today because I am probably going to be reviewing it, but I'll say that on first read I agree with Allan's thumbnail review. The book is not at all a dishy book about Styx; in fact, it's not really a book about Styx at all. It's a book about Chuck Panozzo, and Styx happens to be a part of his life. I actually liked everything else about the book more than I liked the parts about Styx. Styx is somewhat of a background element in the book, and there's surprisingly little in the way of insight into the music of Styx, how it got written, recorded or anything of that nature. What's really surprising to me is that the other guys in the band are not really fleshed-out characters in the book. JC is mentioned maybe two or three times, Glen twice, Todd maybe once or twice, Gowan twice, Ricky not at all. Dennis, JY and Tommy are mentioned in terms of their participation in the band, but not even they are really fully rounded characters; their purpose in this book is in how they interacted with Chuck for the most part.

The strongest parts of the book for me are the non-Styx parts like Chuck's memories of seminary school. His views on the Catholic church are worth the price of this book alone. He is also very honest about his struggles with coming to terms with his sexuality and his feelings of cowardice because of his choice to hide that from the band and the world. The parts about the darkest days of his illness are almost hard to read, they're so brutal. You feel his struggles so keenly that when he finally regains his strength and decides to come out, you feel like standing up and clapping for him.

Chuck is also unflinchingly honest about his John's struggles with alcohol and addiction. I didn't expect him to be so brutally honest about John, who comes off in this book kinda like Keith Moon; a wounded, sometimes sad person who tries to push that away through his sense of humor and alcohol, and fails. It's really heartbreaking stuff, especially reading about how horrible it was for John at the end of his life.

Overall I really liked this book. I think most Styx fans will find it well worth reading.


Sterling

[Rockwriter]

Some of what he said is bound to cause a stir from people and will get debated on these boards I'm sure.

I have not read the book yet but am wondering if he takes shots at all the band members or if he saves those for one member in particular.

Chuck doesn't really "take shots" at anyone, including Dennis for the most part. He kinda reiterates the often-stated theme that Dennis writing "Babe" started the band's problems, that KILROY destroyed the band, and that Dennis' insistence on having things his own way was a major problem, but he doesn't say anything new about Dennis in the way of negatives. It's a surprisingly mild portrayal, written kinda flat with almost no emotion at all pro or con. The parts of the book that are about Styx are presented in somewhat of a dry, factual manner without a lot of emotion for the most part. There are a few negatives about Dennis, but nothing ranting.

As for the other band members, other than them supporting him in recent years (when he describes them purely in glowing terms), he really does not describe them at all other than to say things like, "Tommy wrote such and such song for such and such record", things like that. There are few personal glimpses into the other band members, not very much personal info about any of them pro or con. John is the only other band member who is a fully rounded character. It's really a book about Chuck, not a book about Dennis, Tommy, JY, JC, Glen, Todd, Gowan or Ricky.


Sterling

[Zan]

You feel his struggles so keenly that when he finally regains his strength and decides to come out, you feel like standing up and clapping for him.

I feel that way already. I can't wait to read this book.

[StyxCollector]

Damn Sterling lol

He is spot on though in his comments. However, he does say a few eyebrow raising things like this is the Styx he always dreamed about, etc. As I said, some of his facts about Styx were off such as the aforementioned GH II thing, as well as his recount of "Babe" starting off as more than a demo. Chuck says on p. 103:

Dennis slipped in a last-minute addition-a love song to his wife Suzanne titled "Babe". I remember the first time Dennis brought the song to the group. You could see the look of horror as JY and Tommy began playing this straight-up love ballad ...

Well, Chuck forgot to mention that he also played on the demo which then the other guys overdubbed some vox and such. It was pretty much brought in as a full song, much like "Boat on the River" from Tommy.

Last minute addition? I seriously doubt that.

[Zan]

Last minute addition? I seriously doubt that.

of course you do.

[rajah2165]

I'll do a formal review on the site in a few days when I'm done the last chapter for my book (nothing Styx related).

It's about what I expected and a good read. If you want a lot of juicy/gossipy stuff about Styx, there's not much. Styx is a constant theme through the book, but is not the dominant subject. Some of what he said is bound to cause a stir from people and will get debated on these boards I'm sure.

One thing I will say is that the saddest part for me was reading about John.

I read Chuck's book last night. I am going to re-read it again today because I am probably going to be reviewing it, but I'll say that on first read I agree with Allan's thumbnail review. The book is not at all a dishy book about Styx; in fact, it's not really a book about Styx at all. It's a book about Chuck Panozzo, and Styx happens to be a part of his life. I actually liked everything else about the book more than I liked the parts about Styx. Styx is somewhat of a background element in the book, and there's surprisingly little in the way of insight into the music of Styx, how it got written, recorded or anything of that nature. What's really surprising to me is that the other guys in the band are not really fleshed-out characters in the book. JC is mentioned maybe two or three times, Glen twice, Todd maybe once or twice, Gowan twice, Ricky not at all. Dennis, JY and Tommy are mentioned in terms of their participation in the band, but not even they are really fully rounded characters; their purpose in this book is in how they interacted with Chuck for the most part.

The strongest parts of the book for me are the non-Styx parts like Chuck's memories of seminary school. His views on the Catholic church are worth the price of this book alone. He is also very honest about his struggles with coming to terms with his sexuality and his feelings of cowardice because of his choice to hide that from the band and the world. The parts about the darkest days of his illness are almost hard to read, they're so brutal. You feel his struggles so keenly that when he finally regains his strength and decides to come out, you feel like standing up and clapping for him.

Chuck is also unflinchingly honest about his John's struggles with alcohol and addiction. I didn't expect him to be so brutally honest about John, who comes off in this book kinda like Keith Moon; a wounded, sometimes sad person who tries to push that away through his sense of humor and alcohol, and fails. It's really heartbreaking stuff, especially reading about how horrible it was for John at the end of his life.

Overall I really liked this book. I think most Styx fans will find it well worth reading.


Sterling

So do we think the others (DDY, TS, JY) are going to write a book now?

[Zan]

So do we think the others (DDY, TS, JY) are going to write a book now?

And if they do, can we start guessing the titles now?

[Rockwriter]

So do we think the others (DDY, TS, JY) are going to write a book now?

And if they do, can we start guessing the titles now?

Dennis DeYoung "I Made It Up As I Went Along"

James Young "Confessions of a Second Chair Clarinetist"

Tommy Shaw "My Wife Actually Ghost-Wrote This Book (And Took The Cover Photo)"

Lawrence Gowan "They Love Me In Canada"

Glen Burtnik "Kiss My Ass Goodbye: Sayonara Styx!"

Todd Sucherman "I Don't Have The Legal Right to Write This Book"

Ricky Phillips "Neither Do I"


LOL. Just kidding, of course!


Sterling

[Rockwriter]

Damn Sterling lol

He is spot on though in his comments. However, he does say a few eyebrow raising things like this is the Styx he always dreamed about, etc. As I said, some of his facts about Styx were off such as the aforementioned GH II thing, as well as his recount of "Babe" starting off as more than a demo. Chuck says on p. 103:

Dennis slipped in a last-minute addition-a love song to his wife Suzanne titled "Babe". I remember the first time Dennis brought the song to the group. You could see the look of horror as JY and Tommy began playing this straight-up love ballad ...

Well, Chuck forgot to mention that he also played on the demo which then the other guys overdubbed some vox and such. It was pretty much brought in as a full song, much like "Boat on the River" from Tommy.

Last minute addition? I seriously doubt that.

I noticed that too, and it does kinda not gell with what others have said previously, but that's normal, for people to remember things differently when they happened twenty or thirty years ago. Actually I think John, Chuck and Dennis did the demo, but it was not intended as a Styx song, it was a birthday present for Suzanne. Then Dennis came up short a song for the record and threw it in, so in that sense it may have been last-minute.

I'll point out once again though, that even with the absence of "Babe" that album still would have been a dramatically lighter departure from PO8, it's not like Tommy wrote another "Renegade" for that one either. JY was really the only one that was staying the course at that time, stylistically speaking.


Sterling

[Abitaman]

So do we think the others (DDY, TS, JY) are going to write a book now?

And if they do, can we start guessing the titles now?

Dennis DeYoung "I Made It Up As I Went Along"

James Young "Confessions of a Second Chair Clarinetist"

Tommy Shaw "My Wife Actually Ghost-Wrote This Book (And Took The Cover Photo)"

Lawrence Gowan "They Love Me In Canada"

Glen Burtnik "Kiss My Ass Goodbye: Sayonara Styx!"

Todd Sucherman "I Don't Have The Legal Right to Write This Book"

Ricky Phillips "Neither Do I"


LOL. Just kidding, of course!


Sterling

[brywool]

holy crap! I ordered it a long time ago. Still don't have it...

[Grotelul]

Damn Sterling lol

He is spot on though in his comments. However, he does say a few eyebrow raising things like this is the Styx he always dreamed about, etc. As I said, some of his facts about Styx were off such as the aforementioned GH II thing, as well as his recount of "Babe" starting off as more than a demo. Chuck says on p. 103:

Dennis slipped in a last-minute addition-a love song to his wife Suzanne titled "Babe". I remember the first time Dennis brought the song to the group. You could see the look of horror as JY and Tommy began playing this straight-up love ballad ...

Well, Chuck forgot to mention that he also played on the demo which then the other guys overdubbed some vox and such. It was pretty much brought in as a full song, much like "Boat on the River" from Tommy.

Last minute addition? I seriously doubt that.

I noticed that too, and it does kinda not gell with what others have said previously, but that's normal, for people to remember things differently when they happened twenty or thirty years ago. Actually I think John, Chuck and Dennis did the demo, but it was not intended as a Styx song, it was a birthday present for Suzanne. Then Dennis came up short a song for the record and threw it in, so in that sense it may have been last-minute.

I'll point out once again though, that even with the absence of "Babe" that album still would have been a dramatically lighter departure from PO8, it's not like Tommy wrote another "Renegade" for that one either. JY was really the only one that was staying the course at that time, stylistically speaking.


Sterling

I have some questions......

1. Besides Dennis, how did the other members feel about changing from Paragon Studios to Pumpkin?

2. How did the members feel about Barry Mraz no longer being involved in the production as he had a role in the success of Grand Illusion and POE?

3. How did all these changes in direction, studio take place? Was it Dennis who said to the others...we need to change our sound? We need to go towards more of a pop sound and away from POE? If so, did this occur before writing began on Cornerstone?

4. If the direction had been decided before the members began bringing songs to the table, was this the reason Tommy brought Boat on the River, Never Say Never, etc?

5. Did Tommy and JY have songs that were rejected by Dennis because they did not fit in with the direction he thought they should be going in?

6. Why was Tommy so adament about First Time not being released as a single? Was he not there when they voted on what songs to be on the record or did he or anyone else even have a say in this?

[styxfansite]

holy crap! I ordered it a long time ago. Still don't have it...

Got an Amazon confirmation that I will have my copy on Monday.

[Zan]

Amazon showed I had nothing in my account order-wise, so I just bought it from Barnes & Noble. There. Easy.

[styxfansite]

Amazon showed I had nothing in my account order-wise, so I just bought it from Barnes & Noble. There. Easy.

I waited till it became available before I ordered it. Pre-ordering has it's flaws.

[Rockwriter]

I have some questions......

1. Besides Dennis, how did the other members feel about changing from Paragon Studios to Pumpkin?

I don't think that question has ever been addressed by any of the band members. I would imagine they were fine with it; Paragon was an older studio that didn't even have updated equipment, and it was upstairs, so it was a pain in the ass to move equipment up and such. Also with Pumpkin, because it was small and privately owned, they could be the only band in there, so they would take over the place and block out all the time for however many months were needed to record an album. They could work around the clock if needed, they could go and take a nap. It was comfortable and fit their needs. For the ones who were married and settled in suburbia it was nearby. For Tommy, of course, it's all about the same because he lived in Michigan, LOL. He used to drive a LONG way to and from work every day, and at one point he even had a little plane pick him up in the mornings. Bizarre.

2. How did the members feel about Barry Mraz no longer being involved in the production as he had a role in the success of Grand Illusion and POE?

I really don't know. I would suppose if they wanted him to stay involved, then they would have kept working with him. You know, after a certain amount of success with a certain team, it's normal for a band to shake things up by working with other people, otherwise you keep making the same album over and over again like Def Leppard, LOL. Styx didn't do that.

3. How did all these changes in direction, studio take place? Was it Dennis who said to the others...we need to change our sound? We need to go towards more of a pop sound and away from POE? If so, did this occur before writing began on Cornerstone?

It began somewhat by accident with the demo for "Babe". Dennis wrote the song as a birthday present for his wife and wanted to record it without a lot of hassle, so Gary Loizzo (who had worked with the band before that time, on Man of Miracles) said "Come on in to my studio, we'll do it as a freebie". Dennis, John, Chuck and Gary recorded the demo, and Dennis liked the actual sound of the recording so much that he suggested the studio to the band. You know, whether you like that song or not, you have to admit the recording of it is fantastic. Then at some point in the sessions he suggested "Babe" for the band, even though he did not write it for Styx specifically. They felt it was a hit and felt they could not deny a band member the chance to put a likely hit song on a record, so they said okay.
I don't know if they had any actual discussions about changing direction, or if it was an organic process based on the songs they had. Probably a little bit of both. You know, there are still some riff rock songs on there, but there's also a lot of branching out. I know Dennis, purely from his own perspective, felt it was time to get away from that "art rock" tag because that style was all of a sudden dying at radio. You'll notice that around 1979 was when all the prog bands either began to change, or they died.
I'd be surprised if Tommy deliberately wrote his songs in a new vein, because that's not how he usually writes, but I can't say for sure. I bet he had those songs and just brought them in. In the case of "Boat on the River", he wrote it and showed it to the band, and management did not want the song on the record because it was just too different. In this case it was Dennis, not Tommy, who insisted on that song and fought for its inclusion. He felt it was a great song that needed to be on the album, regardless of style.

4. If the direction had been decided before the members began bringing songs to the table, was this the reason Tommy brought Boat on the River, Never Say Never, etc?

I kinda doubt it, but who knows? Probably he brought what he had and they picked from it, which is what usually happened. You have to remember that it's the arrangements that make those songs what they are in the recorded versions. If they had decided to go in a different direction with "Renegade", for instance, they could have done it acoustic, which is the way it was presented to the band initially. Same with "Fooling Yourself", it was purely acoustic when he sang it for the band. Same with "Sing For The Day". So in this case all they did was produce Tommy's existing songs with less stacking of instruments.

5. Did Tommy and JY have songs that were rejected by Dennis because they did not fit in with the direction he thought they should be going in?

At that point in time I think they were still voting on the songs. They had a voting process in Styx that decided what songs they would work on, and a majority could shoot a song down. Each of the main songwriters had songs that got rejected by the band for various reasons. It was not at Dennis' sole discretion until much later.

6. Why was Tommy so adament about First Time not being released as a single? Was he not there when they voted on what songs to be on the record or did he or anyone else even have a say in this?[/quote]

He didn't mind it being an album track - at least he didn't mind it nearly as much - but he just didn't want that to be a single and have that kind of impact, especially after "Babe". Two in a row like that did not sit well with him. Yes, he was there when the album was being made and yes, he and the band collectively had a say in what went on the albums at that time. Dennis did not have sole discretion until EOTC, although he had way more control over KILROY than previously.

Sterling

[StyxCollector]

Sterling's right here. They were already on the fence about "Babe", and here comes another ballad as a single. Success is a slippery slope, and I think they realized that they better close the barn door before it gets busted wide open. Although on the flip side, they sure collectively made a heck of a lot of money 1979 and on even if they didn't share fully in the publishing rights to "Babe". The reality is that if Styx had not changed direction, they would have most likely soldiered on into obscurity. Kiss made a disco album, why couldn't Styx make a slightly different one? You can argue with the artistic choice made by those respective bands, but even in failure you can take something positive away.

I heard through the grapevine that when "Renegade" was demoed in band form, it may have had a bit more swagger than the final more rocking form it has now. So it shows one song can go through many iterations before becoming the one you know and love. Tommy has always said that Dennis was always encouraging and helped him as a songwriter. As Sterling said, there would be no "Boat On The River" if Dennis didn't insist. It's their biggest international song.

[stabbim]

I heard through the grapevine that when "Renegade" was demoed in band form, it may have had a bit more swagger than the final more rocking form it has now. So it shows one song can go through many iterations before becoming the one you know and love.

Yup. I remember an interview (I think it may have been a Rockline appearance) where TS specifically cites Alan Parsons "The Raven" as the original template for "Renegade" -- slower, moodier, all in 3-part harmony -- and that it was DDY who suggested kicking it up a notch or three.

[brywool]

6. Why was Tommy so adament about First Time not being released as a single? Was he not there when they voted on what songs to be on the record or did he or anyone else even have a say in this?

I would guess because it's embarrassingly bad.

I remember when that album came out. That song was such a departure for them and the lyrics were just so lame "Don't be afraid of love..." Ick. It was just SO light weight. Babe was too, but it sounded good and had a good set of lyrics and was arranged really well. First Time, was just so 'amateurish' for Styx.
I'd rather hear "She Treats Me Like a Human..." which is also a terrible terrible lyric, yet not as cliche' as First Time's. There are so many great songs on Cornerstone, but between First Time and Eddie, I can't believe they couldn't come up with two better tracks. Eddie is one of those songs that is just grating on the nerves. Hated that one right out of the shoot and that was the first track on the FM stations up here that got airplay. It only got airplay for a bit though.

Why Me is also a good song that you never hear anymore on the radio, though it was a single. That had a good hook and some good arranging as well.

[Rockwriter]

6. Why was Tommy so adament about First Time not being released as a single? Was he not there when they voted on what songs to be on the record or did he or anyone else even have a say in this?

I would guess because it's embarrassingly bad.

I remember when that album came out. That song was such a departure for them and the lyrics were just so lame "Don't be afraid of love..." Ick. It was just SO light weight. Babe was too, but it sounded good and had a good set of lyrics and was arranged really well. First Time, was just so 'amateurish' for Styx.
I'd rather hear "She Treats Me Like a Human..." which is also a terrible terrible lyric, yet not as cliche' as First Time's. There are so many great songs on Cornerstone, but between First Time and Eddie, I can't believe they couldn't come up with two better tracks. Eddie is one of those songs that is just grating on the nerves. Hated that one right out of the shoot and that was the first track on the FM stations up here that got airplay. It only got airplay for a bit though.

Why Me is also a good song that you never hear anymore on the radio, though it was a single. That had a good hook and some good arranging as well.

I'll give you "First Time", that's one I don't like a whole lot myself. I don't think it's terrible per se, but I can live without it. "Eddie" too, though it's okay. I could also live without "Never Say Never", at least the lyrical portion. "I must have been born with a whole in my head . . ." LOL. What the fuck? I like that song musically, though.

I really like everything else on the album, but I still regard it as a weaker album in the context of Styx' career.


Sterling

[brywool]

Never Say Never isn't awesome, but it IS the 3rd weakest track on the record. There's something about the chorus and the verses that just doesn't really go together as they should. I LOVE the bridge though. It's mostly the verses. The way they go so low with the vocals and the words are almost crammed in there.

Still, I'd rather hear that than the other two (ft and ed)

[Skates]

Okay, I'll get to Chuck's book in a second, but....when Tommy stated on Behind the Music that he hated First Time, I laughed. I laughed very hard. Why? Because I hated it too. If you look at the band's sucess, they would have turned into Air Supply with that song being the next release.

Nuff said there.

Now, the book. Sterling, you know I loved yours. I loved Chuck's as well. His writing style is very sit down and talk to you as he's writing, and I thought that was perfect. It's just the kind of style I knew he would have, and I would love to go have coffee with the man. He's a trip.

Having met him and Tim very briefly in my job, they are a great couple, it's good to see him HAPPY! And having a friend with an annoying Siamese will forever live in my thoughts.

[styxfansite]

Just got done with Chuck's book. Where it might have taken others 24 hours to read it and sometimes read it twice , it took me a little over a week. For starters, I am not a big reader of books, and second I have been busy with work and when I get home I wasn't really interested in reading anything.

I really enjoyed his book. Like other have said, parts of his book will make you laugh (I know to buy a cat for someone I don't like much ) and there are parts that will upset you (John, Richard). All in All it was a very good read.

Next up, Sterlings book.

I haven't done this much reading since I was in High School or College at least .


Thanks

[Zan]

Just got done with Chuck's book. Where it might have taken others 24 hours to read it and sometimes read it twice , it took me a little over a week. For starters, I am not a big reader of books, and second I have been busy with work and when I get home I wasn't really interested in reading anything.

I really enjoyed his book. Like other have said, parts of his book will make you laugh (I know to buy a cat for someone I don't like much ) and there are parts that will upset you (John, Richard). All in All it was a very good read.

Next up, Sterlings book.

I haven't done this much reading since I was in High School or College at least .

I second EVERYTHING you just wrote! It's taken me longer to finish the book than most because I am NOT a reader by any stretch of the imagination. My attention span extends as far as a few posts on the Internet and that's about it. This is the first book I've read in YEARS - and possibly the first book I've ever FINISHED. ADD, anyone?

Next up for me will be Sterling's book (the remains of it, LOL)

Also, the bits about John & Richard were the hardest for me too, particularly Richard for some reason. Maybe because I didn't already know his story, or...anything about him, really (we all know the tragedy with John, we were there, so to speak). It came as a total shock - but if nothing else, the story made me understand completely why Chuck decided to live openly and speak out from the point in which he did. I thought it was profound.

And I'd have coffee with him anyday, Chris! The man is a trip. (plus, I love coffee)

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I FINALLY received his book in the mail! Can Amazon take any longer with a Pre-Order?

I hope to have it started and finished over the weekend. Thanks for all the comments and opinions, very interesting.

[brywool]

I also just finished it.

While I was hoping for a book that was more about Chuck's time and experiences with Styx, than about his time with his partners, family, and doctors, I found the book to be really inspirational. Jesus, he (and some of his friends) went through Hell and have survived. The guy had so much to lose and risked so much in coming out and he's an inspirational guy to others suffering or living with HIV and or aids. I never realized how bad that it got for Chuck. I knew he was HIV positive and that he had developed aids, but never knew how far it had progressed.

I found the passages about John to be really sad. What a waste of a great guy and a great talent.

For a Styx fan, I wouldn't say it's a "Must Read!" or the "Feel Good Book of the Year!"- but it was an interesting story about a guy who's really had to deal with some horrible setbacks in his life and how he's survived.

Thanks Chuck.