Interesting comment from Chuck on Dennis

[blt man]

Near the end of this article... http://www.startribune.com/music/story/1205282.html

[ManOfMiracles]

That WAS an interesting quote. I was a little disappointed. Chuck seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders... but does he really thing Deenis would try to track him down for the sole purpose of... beating him up? What the heck would he need a body guard for? (I've seen Chuck near shirtless... he could break Dennis in half) Was he afraid of Dennis... or just afraid to deal with him? I would like to think a mature adult would have at least heard him out...

[Skates]

I don't think he's afraid of Dennis, I think he's just trying to avoid the stress involved with Dennis.

[Zan]

I don't think he's afraid of Dennis, I think he's just trying to avoid the stress involved with Dennis.

LOL! I think he was making a joke.

Unless he meant to protect him from Tammy Faye.

As for this part:

" I would like to think a mature adult would have at least heard him out...

I think he already went that route and got nothing but grief. You know what they say: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice....well, you can't fool me twice!

[ManOfMiracles]

I don't think he's afraid of Dennis, I think he's just trying to avoid the stress involved with Dennis.

LOL! I think he was making a joke.

Unless he meant to protect him from Tammy Faye.

As for this part:

" I would like to think a mature adult would have at least heard him out...

I think he already went that route and got nothing but grief. You know what they say: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice....well, you can't fool me twice!

Part joke, part serious. LOL I won't pretend to know the stress behind all of this. But I know I'm a glutton for punishment myself, and will keep sticking my hand in the fire... especially when it comes to long-time acquaintances. Dunno... I can only speak from my pijnt of biew, obviouisly. But if someone I've known for 40 years tried contacting me... I may regret it later but I'd probably try to find out what its about.
*Hypethetically...* (and in no way an I suggesting that this is the case) lets say person #1 has fallen ill or something or some truly terribly, persoanly newa has occurred. Person 2 is angry and ignores him. Then something bad happens, and person 2 spend X number of years kicking himself in the ass for not picking up the phone. Seen it happen a dozen times, and did it myself. Granted, it's likely nothing liek that... but only takes that happening once to feel bad for a long, long time... Even if it was just a peace-attempt... life's short, ya know?

[Zan]

I don't think he's afraid of Dennis, I think he's just trying to avoid the stress involved with Dennis.

LOL! I think he was making a joke.

Unless he meant to protect him from Tammy Faye.

As for this part:

" I would like to think a mature adult would have at least heard him out...

I think he already went that route and got nothing but grief. You know what they say: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice....well, you can't fool me twice!

Part joke, part serious. LOL I won't pretend to know the stress behind all of this. But I know I'm a glutton for punishment myself, and will keep sticking my hand in the fire... especially when it comes to long-time acquaintances. Dunno... I can only speak from my pijnt of biew, obviouisly. But if someone I've known for 40 years tried contacting me... I may regret it later but I'd probably try to find out what its about.
*Hypethetically...* (and in no way an I suggesting that this is the case) lets say person #1 has fallen ill or something or some truly terribly, persoanly newa has occurred. Person 2 is angry and ignores him. Then something bad happens, and person 2 spend X number of years kicking himself in the ass for not picking up the phone. Seen it happen a dozen times, and did it myself. Granted, it's likely nothing liek that... but only takes that happening once to feel bad for a long, long time... Even if it was just a peace-attempt... life's short, ya know?

Half joking about the lawyers and managers, totallyjoking about the body guard, which was what you took issue with, as I recall. LOL

Now, hypothetically...

If person 1 wants to make a peace attempt with person 2, I would hope they'd be big enough not to involve person 3 (like in Denny's case...manager) to act as a mediator of the "peace talk." I don't think even in the most dire situation that would be necessary, unless whatever person 1 wanted to talk with person 2 about involved some sort of business deal. Also, hypothetically speaking, if person 1, person 2, or any # person involved with either party had fallen ill, I'm all persons would hear about it through the grapevine if they had been acquainted for 40 years.

Here's another hypothetical:

Ever see Fatal Attraction? lol
Remember when Alex came back into Dan's life, and he agreed to see her because he wanted closure?

Sooo...What if person 2 has caused a great amount of suffering to person 1? Let's say person 2 gets a case of the redass and decides she or he needs to come back into person 1's life - but doesn't know how to locate person 1. Let's also say person 2 has the best of intentions (but as the line in Heavy Water goes: On the road to good intentions blown to hell by our own inventions.) So she or he puts the feelers out, and it gets back to person 1 that person 2 is trying to reach them. Should person 1 contact person 2? Should he run like hell? I guess it depends on a) how much of a glutton he is for punishment, or b) how long his memory is. What would you do?

In Chuck's case, I get the distinct impression that he is very much at peace with himself and his life now. I also get the impression that having Dennis in his life made for some very stressful times. If I were Chuck, I'd go with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. Things are going smoothly for Chuck they way they are. His past experience, as well as the experience of others, tells him that being involved with DeYoung causes problems. QWould it cause problems this time? maybe not. But why would he let curiousity overrule his gut instincts when he's content the way things are?

[stabbim]

If person 1 wants to make a peace attempt with person 2, I would hope they'd be big enough not to involve person 3 (like in Denny's case...manager) to act as a mediator of the "peace talk."

Ayup. It was the word "manager" that would have set alarm bells going off in my head. Clearly not a personal overture, and why the hell at this point would CP want to entertain the notion of a professional one?

[ManOfMiracles]

Ya'll make some very good points. (Although my head started to spin reading all that for a second there... oy, you're as bad as I am... only you make less typos. I just re-read my own post. Note to self: no typing before the morning coffee!) I'm sure he has his reasons. Just because I think it's too bad, doesn't mean he's not justified.

[Zan]

Ya'll make some very good points. (Although my head started to spin reading all that for a second there... oy, you're as bad as I am... only you make less typos. I just re-read my own post. Note to self: no typing before the morning coffee!) I'm sure he has his reasons. Just because I think it's too bad, doesn't mean he's not justified.

Heh...I know the feeling (about the coffee, that is). No sweat. I know some of us fans consider this band to be somewhat of a personal thing too. It's only natural (notice I didn't say "normal" ) that reading about any strife or bad feelings amongst the members would strike a chord with some. But alas, just like us, these guys are human beings that make mistakes, have blemishes, and have sabotaged relationships & burned bridges. Too bad they can't always be as magnificant as most of their music has been. Such is life. Bummer and stuff, eh?

[StyxCollector]

You can read it two ways.

While reaching out from a manager (most likely Tim Orchard) would seem impersonal, it also buffers things. If DDY did it himself, he may be rebuffed immediately. It has been 8 years, and quite some time since the lawsuit itself has been settled. I know there were bad feelings out of all of that on both sides.

However, maybe ... just maybe ... DDY just wanted to clear the air. It isn't out of the realm of possiblility. Now, I also agree that once bitten, twice shy is not a bad motto to go with here. There's many years of bad blood there. I can see why Chuck wouldn't want to potentially reopen the wound.

We'll never know what might have been had Chuck accepted. I've genuinely gotten the impression (And I hope I get to verify it in an interview) that DDY wants to bury the hatchet. I am not saying return to Styx, but I get the sense he thinks everyone needs to move on.

I did like this quote:

I had a little time making JY [James Young] understand that it wasn't about him. He said, 'Charles, this is the first definitive book about Styx.' I said, 'JY, this is the first definitive book about Chuck.

And you say DDY is egocentric? ha!

[ManOfMiracles]

Heh...I know the feeling (about the coffee, that is). No sweat. I know some of us fans consider this band to be somewhat of a personal thing too. It's only natural (notice I didn't say "normal" ) that reading about any strife or bad feelings amongst the members would strike a chord with some. But alas, just like us, these guys are human beings that make mistakes, have blemishes, and have sabotaged relationships & burned bridges. Too bad they can't always be as magnificant as most of their music has been. Such is life. Bummer and stuff, eh?

Well said! I think we all have our own reasons for taking things as personally as we do. For me, I never saw them as typical "rock stars..." ya know, those unattainable icons that don't exist in reality, just on albums covers and videos. (No, this isn't gonna be a Grand Illusion rant!) Many many years ago, before I was a Styx fan, or even really knew who they were (yes, there was a time!)... when I was little, my family lived across the streets from another family... the DeYoung's. (Both they and my own folks still live there today) This was Dennis's cousin. So, he turned up there a couple of times, just like the rest of us would visit our own family. My sister knew who he was... she was all like "Dennis DeYoung is parked right out in front! Look!" And I was just like "who?" and went back to my cartoons. This had to be give or take 1980-ish. So there he was, height of popularity, and all I saw was some dude that parked his jeep in front of the house while visiting his relatives. I had no clue really what a rock star even was. LOL
So, my earliest impressions of him, and thus, the band, were far from glamorous, but very grounded in reality.
I wonder if anyone else has any kooky experiences like that. And for that matter, I wonder how far off the topic I can wander..?

[styxfanNH]

Just goes to show you that the event that split up Dennis and Chuck has had that much pf an impact on him.

And last time Tim made a call to a Styx member it was to reach out to Glen to join Dennis' band.

Trust is a hard thing to regain, once it is lost. I think that is what this quote shows.

[StyxCollector]

Trust is a hard thing to regain, once it is lost. I think that is what this quote shows.

Exactly. Sometimes there really is no going back.

[stabbim]

We'll never know what might have been had Chuck accepted. I've genuinely gotten the impression (And I hope I get to verify it in an interview) that DDY wants to bury the hatchet. I am not saying return to Styx, but I get the sense he thinks everyone needs to move on.

Seems to me that CP has done that, and done it quite well. Don't know how having to sit through the guy stating his case one more time would go any further to accomplishing it.

I did like this quote:

I had a little time making JY [James Young] understand that it wasn't about him. He said, 'Charles, this is the first definitive book about Styx.' I said, 'JY, this is the first definitive book about Chuck.

And you say DDY is egocentric? ha!

It ain't a binary proposition, you know. You think when he said this...

For me to take people to task -- which I could have -- what would it have served? Nothing.

...that he was only talking about DDY?

[yogi]

What I find soo damn funny is that all through Chucks book( yea I read it, in the closet) he talks about not letting people in. How he tried to tackle everything by himself so not to burden others. Scared as hell how they would react to his situation. He states over and over how he regrets doing this. How he should of let those clse to him in.

How will he ever know what Dennis wanted. It could be that Dennis has read Chucks book, admires the shit out of his courage,apologize, or maybe he just wants to shake the hand of a once old friend.

It makes me really wonder who the close minded one is now??


As for me the most close minded people I have ever come across are those who are on a mission. Those who have found THEIR cause. Nothing else seems to matter anymore to most of them.

CDC fact: More women will die this year from Lung Cancer than Breast cancer. It has been that way for over 50 years yet.... this year we will spend over 50 times more money on breast cancer research than lung cancer research. CDC Fact: we spend over 2500 times more money on HIV & AIDS research than we do on researching and trying to find a cure for ALS paitients.

What's your cause????

Abortion anyone, Prayer in school, The war on terror, Astroturff vs Real grass...........????????

[stabbim]

As for me the most close minded people I have ever come across are those who are on a mission. Those who have found THEIR cause. Nothing else seems to matter anymore to most of them.

Sometimes the jokes just write themselves.

[yogi]

I ABSOLUTELY agree!!!!!!!

[Zan]

What I find soo damn funny is that all through Chucks book( yea I read it, in the closet) he talks about not letting people in. How he tried to tackle everything by himself so not to burden others. Scared as hell how they would react to his situation. He states over and over how he regrets doing this. How he should of let those clse to him in.

How will he ever know what Dennis wanted. It could be that Dennis has read Chucks book, admires the shit out of his courage,apologize, or maybe he just wants to shake the hand of a once old friend.

It makes me really wonder who the close minded one is now??

Congratulations on getting through the book.

But um, never once in the book did Chuck mention being "close" to Dennis. In fact, he makes several statements to the contrary. Maybe he just doesn't care what Dennis wanted. Maybe in his mind, that chapter in his life is closed (no pun intended).

As for me the most close minded people I have ever come across are those who are on a mission. Those who have found THEIR cause. Nothing else seems to matter anymore to most of them.

Stabbim says: Sometimes the jokes write themselves.

Heh.

[yogi]

We know EXACTALY what causes HIV and how to prevent its spread. Many of the people NOW who get the disease, get it through reckless behavior. So why do we spend 2500 times more money on this disease than a disease such as ALS??

The Gay community with their cause are a whole lot more powerful than individual families scattered throughout the US are with theirs.

Is this right????????

P.S. Chuck did talk fondly about the early days with the band( when they were kids)( you need a re read)

There will be a test on Tuesday.

[stabbim]

Is this right????????

It couldn't possibly matter less.

[Rockwriter]

We'll never know what might have been had Chuck accepted. I've genuinely gotten the impression (And I hope I get to verify it in an interview) that DDY wants to bury the hatchet. I am not saying return to Styx, but I get the sense he thinks everyone needs to move on.

Seems to me that CP has done that, and done it quite well. Don't know how having to sit through the guy stating his case one more time would go any further to accomplishing it.

I did like this quote:

I had a little time making JY [James Young] understand that it wasn't about him. He said, 'Charles, this is the first definitive book about Styx.' I said, 'JY, this is the first definitive book about Chuck.

And you say DDY is egocentric? ha!

It ain't a binary proposition, you know. You think when he said this...

For me to take people to task -- which I could have -- what would it have served? Nothing.

...that he was only talking about DDY?

LOL, exactly. In fact my one problem with Chuck's book is that he kinda gave some guys a pass; basically, the guys he currently works with. It's written in an interesting way, in that when Dennis, whom Chuck no longer has to deal with, did something he did not like, he is named, but when someone else did it, they are referred to only as "a band member". I can understand why it has to be that way, but it's also a bit on the comical side for me because I know some of the other stories as well. There is one funny thing where Chuck says that his reaction to watching Behind The Music for the first time was, "These idiots!" LOL, he was talking about all of them. I know that privately Chuck has said that all three of the front men of Styx have big egos and their ego battles destroyed the band, but he could not really say that in his book, for obvious reasons.

He DID say in the book that he chose not to tell JY he was gay early on when he asked, and that he felt at the time JY did not have the emotional maturity to handle it. How right he was. One of the stories I left out of MY book involved JY; it was at a party at JC's house early on, and Chuck showed up with some girl, and then after he left JY, who had been drinking, went up to everyone else and was freaking out saying, "Why doesn't he just fucking admit it?! We all know he's gay, we all know he's not gonna do anything with her, why doesn't he just say it?! It's a waste of a perfectly good woman!" LOL. He went on and on, and finally JC said to JY, "What does it matter? Maybe you have your own struggle, if it's that important to you," and JY shut up. But that's just an example of JY's thinking as a younger man; fortunately he matured later on and seems to have mellowed in some ways.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[stabbim]

LOL, exactly. In fact my one problem with Chuck's book is that he kinda gave some guys a pass; basically, the guys he currently works with. It's written in an interesting way, in that when Dennis, whom Chuck no longer has to deal with, did something he did not like, he is named, but when someone else did it, they are referred to only as "a band member". I can understand why it has to be that way, but it's also a bit on the comical side for me because I know some of the other stories as well. There is one funny thing where Chuck says that his reaction to watching Behind The Music for the first time was, "These idiots!" LOL, he was talking about all of them. I know that privately Chuck has said that all three of the front men of Styx have big egos and their ego battles destroyed the band, but he could not really say that in his book, for obvious reasons.

Claiming that everyone except DDY got a pass is a fairly radical interpretation of the text, IMO. I think the "3 big egos" idea came across pretty clearly, and when he says stuff like this...

It's difficult to single out any one person to place all the blame on. It takes two (or more) to have an argument. However, most of the conflicts involved a common figure.

...well, as with your own book, on some level the story is what the story is.

I know a lot of folks here like to twist themselves into knots trying to appear impartial on that issue, believing that everything boils down to a two-way street or a matter of opinion, but sometimes it just ain't so.

[StyxCollector]

Seems to me that CP has done that, and done it quite well. Don't know how having to sit through the guy stating his case one more time would go any further to accomplishing it.

I don't disagree Chuck has moved beyond it. Maybe DDY just wants closure and he thought that he could at least make peace with Chuck. Again, we don't know the motivation as to why Chuck was contacted.

It ain't a binary proposition, you know. You think when he said this...

For me to take people to task -- which I could have -- what would it have served? Nothing.

...that he was only talking about DDY?

Well, that I agree with. But I do also agree with Sterling here - although I liked the book, he tends to call out DDY more than JY, and largely gives the current band a big pass. In reading the book:
1) He doesn't seem to ever have a bad thing to say about Tommy, even back in the day. In fact, I would argue that Chuck and Tommy get along very well to this day. Evidence proves this.
2) His feelings towards DDY only changed truly around Cornerstone. In his early recounts, he seems much more "affectionate" (for lack of a better term) towards DDY. It's only when he brings Styx into the story around 1979 where you feel like something had changed in how he thought.
3) Although the person was not directly named, there was that incident around EOTC (starting the bottom of p. 135 "I don't mind Chuck being gay. But he isn't going to be one of those Act Up guys, is he?" If that was DDY - again we don't know - I can see where that comment would really put him off. So in 1999 when the band decided to move on - if it was Dennis - he could get on with things. That next paragraph or two after that talks about how he buried it since he wanted to work.

[styxfansite]

3) Although the person was not directly named, there was that incident around EOTC (starting the bottom of p. 135 "I don't mind Chuck being gay. But he isn't going to be one of those Act Up guys, is he?" If that was DDY - again we don't know - I can see where that comment would really put him off. So in 1999 when the band decided to move on - if it was Dennis - he could get on with things. That next paragraph or two after that talks about how he buried it since he wanted to work.

I was curious about who said this to. I was thinking if it was Dennis, he would have said his name, but since he didn't say a name it made me think it might be someone else in the band or someone that has left the band recently that he didn't want to say anything bad about. We know it probably was Tommy or John, because Tommy wasnt there and John is his brother.


That is my take on that.

[StyxCollector]

I was curious about who said this to. I was thinking if it was Dennis, he would have said his name, but since he didn't say a name it made me think it might be someone else in the band or someone that has left the band recently that he didn't want to say anything bad about. We know it probably was Tommy or John, because Tommy wasnt there and John is his brother.

That is my take on that.

It couldn't have been Tommy since Tommy was in DY and he would have no vested interest in Styx. It wouldn't be John since he comments on p. 130 about how John reacted to finding out about Chuck being HIV+. So that leaves Dennis, JY, and Glen. Glen isn't that kind of person, so that boils it down to two people.

[Grotelul]

Seems to me that CP has done that, and done it quite well. Don't know how having to sit through the guy stating his case one more time would go any further to accomplishing it.

I don't disagree Chuck has moved beyond it. Maybe DDY just wants closure and he thought that he could at least make peace with Chuck. Again, we don't know the motivation as to why Chuck was contacted.

It ain't a binary proposition, you know. You think when he said this...

For me to take people to task -- which I could have -- what would it have served? Nothing.

...that he was only talking about DDY?

Well, that I agree with. But I do also agree with Sterling here - although I liked the book, he tends to call out DDY more than JY, and largely gives the current band a big pass. In reading the book:
1) He doesn't seem to ever have a bad thing to say about Tommy, even back in the day. In fact, I would argue that Chuck and Tommy get along very well to this day. Evidence proves this.
2) His feelings towards DDY only changed truly around Cornerstone. In his early recounts, he seems much more "affectionate" (for lack of a better term) towards DDY. It's only when he brings Styx into the story around 1979 where you feel like something had changed in how he thought.
3) Although the person was not directly named, there was that incident around EOTC (starting the bottom of p. 135 "I don't mind Chuck being gay. But he isn't going to be one of those Act Up guys, is he?" If that was DDY - again we don't know - I can see where that comment would really put him off. So in 1999 when the band decided to move on - if it was Dennis - he could get on with things. That next paragraph or two after that talks about how he buried it since he wanted to work.

I wouldn't expect Chuck to be any different in his tone towards Dennis vs. the current band. How many of us would publicly say things like that about people you currently work with? Maybe someday when the band is no longer and he writes another book..who knows, his vault would probably open up.

[Skates]

What I find soo damn funny is that all through Chucks book( yea I read it, in the closet) he talks about not letting people in. How he tried to tackle everything by himself so not to burden others. Scared as hell how they would react to his situation. He states over and over how he regrets doing this. How he should of let those clse to him in.

How will he ever know what Dennis wanted. It could be that Dennis has read Chucks book, admires the shit out of his courage,apologize, or maybe he just wants to shake the hand of a once old friend.

It makes me really wonder who the close minded one is now??


As for me the most close minded people I have ever come across are those who are on a mission. Those who have found THEIR cause. Nothing else seems to matter anymore to most of them.

CDC fact: More women will die this year from Lung Cancer than Breast cancer. It has been that way for over 50 years yet.... this year we will spend over 50 times more money on breast cancer research than lung cancer research. CDC Fact: we spend over 2500 times more money on HIV & AIDS research than we do on researching and trying to find a cure for ALS paitients.

What's your cause????

Abortion anyone, Prayer in school, The war on terror, Astroturff vs Real grass...........????????

Yogi, glad you read it. See, it wasn't what you thought it would be.

Any more thoughts on it?

[yogi]

I thought it was an excellent book. I will comment more on it at a later time. I really do have some different takes on this book than most others do here. I want to really think about it before I write.

A few things that I was clueless about were: John getting married on stage to Jan( second wife). Chuck going to the Dominician Republic to have experimental prostrate cancer laser surgery. Than walking out the same day and being 100% cured.

I really thought a central theme of this book was forgiveness, growing & understanding. With that being said I cant believe that he wouldnt even consider talking to Dennis. They ALL helped each other attain fame and fortune most of us will never ever know about. A fame and fortune that helps the privilaged few afford expermental surgeries that are not covered by insurance.

In a round about way Dennis helped save Chucks life, and he wont even speak to the man. At age 59, after EVERYTHING he has been through, that seems a little silly, stupid & closed minded to me.

Excellent book!!!!

[Zan]

We know EXACTALY what causes HIV and how to prevent its spread. Many of the people NOW who get the disease, get it through reckless behavior. So why do we spend 2500 times more money on this disease than a disease such as ALS??

The Gay community with their cause are a whole lot more powerful than individual families scattered throughout the US are with theirs.

Is this right????????

What is the point here? That these people deserve to die? And the "gay community and their cause" was not always powerful at all. In fact, it's only recently that most people in the public even cared.

P.S. Chuck did talk fondly about the early days with the band( when they were kids)( you need a re read)

LOL...No, I think the few times he said "I was always closer with JY & Tommy" [due to many reasons, including Dennis' family being such a big part of his life more than anything], is enough for me. I was tight with people in college that I haven't spoken to since. I've had roommates, boyfriends... Does that mean I should still consider them close?

There will be a test on Tuesday.

HIV, polygraph, or IQ?

[Zan]

I know a lot of folks here like to twist themselves into knots trying to appear impartial on that issue, believing that everything boils down to a two-way street or a matter of opinion, but sometimes it just ain't so.

This is where I usually ask you to marry me.