Jonathan Cain Needs To Get a Freakin' Clue!!!!!

[Pelata]

I talked to someone a little while ago who personally knows someone related to this whole fiasco and he was told that

Do you realize how that sounds?

Of course...but it was the truth, so I don't care. Anyone can take it how they wish...

[Matthew]

Cain and Schon weren't villainous or misguided when they fired Augeri. It was when they hired the guy in '98 to do EXACTLY what they want JSS's replacement to do now.

I must respectfully disagree.

Here's a point which nobody talks about- if you listen to Augeri and Perry side by side, they do NOT sound like each other!!! Maybe here and there, but the differences are distinct. Furthermore, when they were auditioning singers back in 97'- 98', Journey turned down guys like the creepy Hugo because he WAS too much like Perry. They wanted to continue the band, but not make it sound or look like they were bringing in a doppleganger of the beloved Perry.

Salmacius - without getting too sucked in to this ancient debate - yes, of course there are differences - but you can't tell me that these differences got Augeri hired. The similarities were the key ingredient here.

No, they didn't want to be totally blatant about it but the strategy was pretty obvious nonetheless: make the Journey live experience as familiar as possible with a singer who - to a casual fan - looks and sounds just close enough to the guy they remember from their teenage days. Augeri certainly wasn't recruited to surprise people or break new ground.

However...with JSS in the band it was impossible to create the illusion that Perry was still in the group...and at the show I saw in the UK the crowd actively welcomed this. Unless Journey were going down badly in America - which I don't think they were - this change of strategy seemed to be working on the live circuit.

So it's hard to believe Cain when he made out that JSS would jeopardise their revenue. Surely the issue was over the recording career?

[ohsherrie]

So it's hard to believe Cain when he made out that JSS would jeopardise their revenue. Surely the issue was over the recording career?

The issue was about ego Matt. Jeff was so good as frontman and was becoming so popular that F&F's egos felt threatened. I'm also sure when they started talking about new material and Jeff tried to inject some ideas into the mix Jon felt even more threatened. He'd rather call in outside help like he did for Arrival than give Jeff creative input. Jeff just might be good enough to shake Jon's position as "chief Journey songwriter".

[Rhiannon]

The issue was about ego

Ego, ego, and a couple of whining divas.

I name no names.

[Matthew]

The issue was about ego Matt. Jeff was so good as frontman and was becoming so popular that F&F's egos felt threatened.

Popular with who though, Sherrie? The crowds? Surely Cain would actively enjoy the band bringing the house down? He certainly looked like he did at the London show....

Or are we talking abouty the internet fan base? If so...it seems to me that Augeri had even more of a fanatical hardcore of supporters...and certainly most people had signature photos of Augeri and not Cain on BT. And are we really saying that Cain couldn't handle JSS when he has successfully worked with Perry and Waite...who by all accounts are MUCH harder to deal with than JSS ever will be.

I'm also sure when they started talking about new material and Jeff tried to inject some ideas into the mix Jon felt even more threatened. He'd rather call in outside help like he did for Arrival than give Jeff creative input. Jeff just might be good enough to shake Jon's position as "chief Journey songwriter".

You say this Sherrie but Cain IS one of the most successful song-writers in the history of American rock music. This scenario where JSS blinds Cain with his song-writing brilliance seems a little far-fetched to me.

The only explanation I've heard so far that seems convincing is that Azoff tried to sell the new line-up to major labels, independent labels and various media outlets.... and got an overwhelmingly negative or indifferent response.

Journey were faced with the reality of things. That the revenue would come from the back catalogue and from nostalgia tours. Schon and Cain thought it was too expensive or time-consuming to self-finance a new record and press it themselves...and Cain wasn't convinced by the early writing sessions in any case.

They knew that JSS was too hungry to make his mark on Journey's recording career and that he wouldn't happily just sing the hits for the next three or four years.

So find a guy who'll accept the reality of Journey's career now and who will be glad to sing just the 80s songs until they retire.

Does this sound right? Or am I way off the mark here?

[conversationpc]

The only explanation I've heard so far that seems convincing is that Azoff tried to sell the new line-up to major labels, independent labels and various media outlets.... and got an overwhelmingly negative or indifferent response.

Journey were faced with the reality of things. That the revenue would come from the back catalogue and from nostalgia tours. Schon and Cain thought it was too expensive or time-consuming to self-finance a new record and press it themselves...and Cain wasn't convinced by the early writing sessions in any case.

They knew that JSS was too hungry to make his mark on Journey's recording career and that he wouldn't happily just sing the hits for the next three or four years.

So find a guy who'll accept the reality of Journey's career now and who will be glad to sing just the 80s songs until they retire.

Does this sound right? Or am I way off the mark here?

Throw in the recent success of DSB surging the charts after the final episode of "The Sopranos" and you're probably correct.

[jrnychick]

The only explanation I've heard so far that seems convincing is that Azoff tried to sell the new line-up to major labels, independent labels and various media outlets.... and got an overwhelmingly negative or indifferent response.

Journey were faced with the reality of things. That the revenue would come from the back catalogue and from nostalgia tours. Schon and Cain thought it was too expensive or time-consuming to self-finance a new record and press it themselves...and Cain wasn't convinced by the early writing sessions in any case.

They knew that JSS was too hungry to make his mark on Journey's recording career and that he wouldn't happily just sing the hits for the next three or four years.

So find a guy who'll accept the reality of Journey's career now and who will be glad to sing just the 80s songs until they retire.

Does this sound right? Or am I way off the mark here?[/quote]

Wow Matthew--I actually agree with you! I would not be surprised if this turned out to be true. I just think they shouldn't have screwed Jeff over in the way they did.

[ohsherrie]

Popular with who though, Sherrie? The crowds? Surely Cain would actively enjoy the band bringing the house down? He certainly looked like he did at the London show....

Or are we talking abouty the internet fan base? If so...it seems to me that Augeri had even more of a fanatical hardcore of supporters...and certainly most people had signature photos of Augeri and not Cain on BT. And are we really saying that Cain couldn't handle JSS when he has successfully worked with Perry and Waite...who by all accounts are MUCH harder to deal with than JSS ever will be.

The crowds. Jeff commanded the spotlight, hell the whole stage. Remember, they didn't want another superstar frontman. They wanted someone who would sing the songs and blend into the background. Augeri had his BT fanbase, but they paid no attention to that. They don't even like interacting with the fans at meet & greets and such, so they pretty much ignored the attention Augeri got there. When they did the shows though, on stage Augeri wasn't the overwhelming center of attention the way Perry and Jeff were.

You say this Sherrie but Cain IS one of the most successful song-writers in the history of American rock music. This scenario where JSS blinds Cain with his song-writing brilliance seems a little far-fetched to me.

I know you're a big fan of Jon's and see things differently than I do. I can't stand the man. Go back and reread Andrew's interviews with them this year again. Neal was clearly psyched about writing with Jeff. Jon on the other hand dodged the subject as much as Andrew would let him.

The only explanation I've heard so far that seems convincing is that Azoff tried to sell the new line-up to major labels, independent labels and various media outlets.... and got an overwhelmingly negative or indifferent response.

Journey were faced with the reality of things. That the revenue would come from the back catalogue and from nostalgia tours. Schon and Cain thought it was too expensive or time-consuming to self-finance a new record and press it themselves...and Cain wasn't convinced by the early writing sessions in any case.

They knew that JSS was too hungry to make his mark on Journey's recording career and that he wouldn't happily just sing the hits for the next three or four years.

So find a guy who'll accept the reality of Journey's career now and who will be glad to sing just the 80s songs until they retire.

Does this sound right? Or am I way off the mark here?

The talk today is that they were offered a record deal with Jeff. I don't know what true and what's not about that subject.

All of stuff you said would make sense, except that those are legitimate business concerns that could easily have been explained to Jeff. Why didn't they discuss it with him before they tried to get Kevin Chalfant to do the Polo match gig, or before they made the decision to fire him behind his back while he was in Europe with no communication from them what-so-ever?

Just doesn't wash for me Matt. They had no legitimate reason. If they had they would have told him.

[Matthew]

I know you're a big fan of Jon's and see things differently than I do. I can't stand the man. Go back and reread Andrew's interviews with them this year again. Neal was clearly psyched about writing with Jeff. Jon on the other hand dodged the subject as much as Andrew would let him.

Cain's song-writing has played a big part of my life since I was a teenager, Sherrie. If the guy is a turd in real life that doesn't diminish my respect for the guy as a musician.

Neal "being psyched" doesn't mean much somehow...and JSS? Well, he was absolutely superb in concert and a great bloke on this board - but if Cain wasn't 100% convinced by JSS' song-writing/solo stuff/Soul Sirkus then this isn't a reason to condemn him, is it?

Just doesn't wash for me Matt. They had no legitimate reason. If they had they would have told him.

Whereas Cain avoiding JSS when they let him go is something to condemn him for.

Sherrie- why do you think "having a legitimate reason" and behaving badly are mutually exclusive?

[ohsherrie]

Cain's song-writing has played a bit part of my life since I was a teenager, Sherrie. If the guy is a turd in real life that doesn't diminish my respect for the guy as a musician.

Neal "being psyched" doesn't mean much somehow...and JSS? Well, he was absolutely superb in concert and a great bloke on this board - but if Cain wasn't 100% convinced by JSS' song-writing/solo stuff/Soul Sirkus then this isn't a reason to condemn him, is it?

I get that Matt, but how many of those songs that were the soundtrack of your life were written without Steve Perry's input?

I don't think it had anything to do with what Jon thought of Jeff's writing ability. I think it had to do with not wanting to have to share the credits with another superstar frontman who's stardom itself would diminish the fans' perception of the role Cain played in the writing of the any hit songs that may come from the collaboration.

Sherrie- why do you think "having a legitimate reason" and behaving badly are mutually exclusive?

I don't, but since management wouldn't tell Jeff what the problem was I don't think it was anything that was a problem for management. I think they, as part of their role as managers and businessmen, would have seen the legitimate business related concerns as something that they should discuss with Jeff as their client. I think the problem was strictly internal to the band and had nothing to do with the way Jeff sang or performed. His singing and stage presense had the audiences and fans more excited about Journey than they've been in years so that makes absolutely no sense. It's a resounding lie.

Why would they make up an excuse that was so obvioulsy false if they had a legitimate business reason that they could explain?

[Matthew]

I get that Matt, but how many of those songs that were the soundtrack of your life were written without Steve Perry's input?

I don't think it had anything to do with what Jon thought of Jeff's writing ability. I think it had to do with not wanting to have to share the credits with another superstar frontman who's stardom itself would diminish the fans' perception of the role Cain played in the writing of the any hit songs that may come from the collaboration.

Sherrie - you see "superstar frontman"....but maybe Cain saw "guy who's never been successful trying to tell me how to find success"?

And do you think Perry threatened Cain? I seriously doubt it. In fact I bet there isn't a day that goes by without Cain missing the song-writing partnership they used to have.

As for the hits...even if JSS single-handedly wrote a song which was a hit....the loudest cheer of the night will always be for "Faithfully".

Sherrie - maybe you're right about all this - but somehow it just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Something doesn't sit right about this explanation....

Why would they make up an excuse that was so obvioulsy false if they had a legitimate business reason that they could explain?

Was it obviously false? Both JSS and the die-hards on MR were pushing for a change of direction after the Augeri era. Cain has come out in public to say that he wants to pull back from this direction.

I can see the flakiness and cowardice - but I really can't see any dishonesty.

[ohsherrie]

Sherrie - you see "superstar frontman"....but maybe Cain saw "guy who's never been successful trying to tell me how to find success"?

And do you think Perry threatened Cain? I seriously doubt it. In fact I bet there isn't a day that goes by without Cain missing the song-writing partnership they used to have.

As for the hits...even if JSS single-handedly wrote a song which was a hit....the loudest cheer of the night will always be for "Faithfully".

Sherrie - maybe you're right about all this - but somehow it just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Something doesn't sit right about this explanation.... [/qfuote]

Oh I don't doubt that Frig was thinking "Who are you to tell me how to write a successful song?". That's probably exactly what his ego was asking. Fact is he hasn't had a successful song without collaboration with Perry. Even though Perry didn't contribute to the lyrics or music to Faithfully, it was written with Perry's vocal style in mind. Therefore it was crafted around the contribution of Perry's voice.

I'm sure he does miss that partnership because he's apparently completely lost without it. Hell Matt, read the interview, he thought Butterfly was a good song.

I don't think Perry threatened Jon, but I think Jon resented being under Perry's shadow and is going to make damned sure he doesn't get in that position again even if it means playing county fairs instead of major venues.

Was it obviously false? Both JSS and the die-hards on MR were pushing for a change of direction after the Augeri era. Cain has come out in public to say that he wants to pull back from this direction.

I can see the flakiness and cowardice - but I really can't see any dishonesty.

It rings totally false to many of us because it makes no sense if he wants Journey to be successful. He wants to stick with the catalog rather than try anything new and I think it's because he hasn't been able to write a hit song without Perry. He doesn't want a new, popular frontman contributing to a song that becomes successful when he hasn't been able to do that on his own. If that happened people might be saying, "yeah Soto knows how to write a hit". The old ego can't have that.

[Pelata]

Here's the thing, and Cain pretty much said so, the band wants to be a travelling jukebox...not a band. They're going to be a revue, not a band.

An Evening With The Music Of Journey....not Journey.

[slucero]

[ArnelRox]

That looks like SL to me. Very funny. What is the SL name of this person?

[Enigma869]

I don't think Perry threatened Jon, but I think Jon resented being under Perry's shadow and is going to make damned sure he doesn't get in that position again even if it means playing county fairs instead of major venues.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Perhaps I'm giving Cain too much credit, but I honestly think he would welcome Perry back into Journey, without hesitation. Listen, Cain was a superb songwriter in his day and could probably still write. I think the real issue is that Cain is probably smart enough to understand that you can have the greatest lyrics in the world, but it won't matter a bit, if there isn't a voice to bring it to the masses! I think both Cain and Neal (although I don't think either would ever admit it publically) realize that Perry was their gravy train, and that once his voice departed from the scene, they would NEVER be anything more than a tribute act! Apparently, at this point in their careers, they are quite okay with being a tribute act.


John from Boston

[slucero]

That looks like SL to me. Very funny. What is the SL name of this person?

Join SL... I'm not that hard to find....

...besides... we have a lot of fun there....

[ohsherrie]

I don't think Perry threatened Jon, but I think Jon resented being under Perry's shadow and is going to make damned sure he doesn't get in that position again even if it means playing county fairs instead of major venues.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Perhaps I'm giving Cain too much credit, but I honestly think he would welcome Perry back into Journey, without hesitation. Listen, Cain was a superb songwriter in his day and could probably still write. I think the real issue is that Cain is probably smart enough to understand that you can have the greatest lyrics in the world, but it won't matter a bit, if there isn't a voice to bring it to the masses! I think both Cain and Neal (although I don't think either would ever admit it publically) realize that Perry was their gravy train, and that once his voice departed from the scene, they would NEVER be anything more than a tribute act! Apparently, at this point in their careers, they are quite okay with being a tribute act.


John from Boston

To a certain extent I think you're right. I think he would welcome Perry back, but I think it would be because Perry validates the Real Journey and therefore Cain's career. I don't think he's willing to extend the same courtesy to a new frontman that might have more influence on Neal than he does.

[Matthew]

I don't think Perry threatened Jon, but I think Jon resented being under Perry's shadow and is going to make damned sure he doesn't get in that position again even if it means playing county fairs instead of major venues.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Perhaps I'm giving Cain too much credit, but I honestly think he would welcome Perry back into Journey, without hesitation. Listen, Cain was a superb songwriter in his day and could probably still write. I think the real issue is that Cain is probably smart enough to understand that you can have the greatest lyrics in the world, but it won't matter a bit, if there isn't a voice to bring it to the masses! I think both Cain and Neal (although I don't think either would ever admit it publically) realize that Perry was their gravy train, and that once his voice departed from the scene, they would NEVER be anything more than a tribute act! Apparently, at this point in their careers, they are quite okay with being a tribute act.


John from Boston

To a certain extent I think you're right. I think he would welcome Perry back, but I think it would be because Perry validates the Real Journey and therefore Cain's career. I don't think he's willing to extend the same courtesy to a new frontman that might have more influence on Neal than he does.

Although from what I'm now reading it was Neal Schon who was the prime mover behind JSS's departure....

All I'm saying Sherrie is that we can rightly slag off Cain for not being in touch or being open and honest with JSS - but at this stage we don't know anything about what's going through Cain's mind or whether or not this has anything to do with egomania. For all we know Schon talked HIM into it.

So maybe we should give old Amadeus a break until we know more?

[Matthew]

Hell Matt, read the interview, he thought Butterfly was a good song.

.

Sherrie - I just read the interview again. Here's what Cain said about JSS:

"He just responded like Rocky Balboa and started swinging and worked his way through it. He really brought it together and I think every show he does gets a little better and it's impressive. What he's done is very impressive. So Jeff kind of saved us on the tour.
He's just added a whole fresh new spin on the stuff, and it's great. And I'm honored to have him sing on my songs."

This is far from lukewarm praise - but equally Cain's perfectionism is pretty obvious throughout the interview and he's open about how much JSS worried him at the outset. I can't see anything here that suggests that Cain was "threatened", though.

I just see a lot of anxiety about whether or not JSS would meet his standards.... "It's like coming from Broadway to Shakespeare....."'We've got to get you thinking more finesse"... "it was stressful. Neal had just all the confidence in the world in him. And I was just like yikes, I hope…I hope he makes it through this."


This bit about the recording career is interesting:

"Have you tried any writing yet with Jeff to see how that gels?"

"I'm not gonna do that because I think the freshness is important and to labor that kind of thing, no. Right now were on a really high energy wave. Any little thing will upset that, you know, and getting into all that writing, it just wears you out."

I wonder if "Winds of Freedom" ended up being that "little thing"?

[ohsherrie]

Hell Matt, read the interview, he thought Butterfly was a good song.

.

Sherrie - I just read the interview again. Here's what Cain said about JSS:

"He just responded like Rocky Balboa and started swinging and worked his way through it. He really brought it together and I think every show he does gets a little better and it's impressive. What he's done is very impressive. So Jeff kind of saved us on the tour.
He's just added a whole fresh new spin on the stuff, and it's great. And I'm honored to have him sing on my songs."

This is far from lukewarm praise - but equally Cain's perfectionism is pretty obvious throughout the interview and he's open about how much JSS worried him at the outset. I can't see anything here that suggests that Cain was "threatened", though.

I just see a lot of anxiety about whether or not JSS would meet his standards.... "It's like coming from Broadway to Shakespeare....."'We've got to get you thinking more finesse"... "it was stressful. Neal had just all the confidence in the world in him. And I was just like yikes, I hope…I hope he makes it through this."


This bit about the recording career is interesting:

"Have you tried any writing yet with Jeff to see how that gels?"

"I'm not gonna do that because I think the freshness is important and to labor that kind of thing, no. Right now were on a really high energy wave. Any little thing will upset that, you know, and getting into all that writing, it just wears you out."

I wonder if "Winds of Freedom" ended up being that "little thing"?

I guess maybe something was lost in the transcription. To me all that that "I", "I", "I", "ME", "ME," "ME", should have been broken up with a few "We's" in there. Those comments about how "HE" had to be Jeff's vocal coach? All those comments like how "HE" knew what it took to make a Journey record and all "HE" had done to make Journey successful? Puleaze. Yeah, he thinks he's the ~Maestro~ in his own mind and wants everyone to think the band wouldn't be able to function without him calling all the musical shots. That's what he felt was threatened. Neal and Jeff might just get together and show him and the fanbase that Jon isn't the musical guru of Journey.

So he waited for that opportunity when there was a chance to slip the fly in the ointment. Neal's ego was starting to look a little bruised by Jeff's command of the stage and the resulting attention and adoration, so Jon started working on him.

[NoMoreTails]

I wonder if "Winds of Freedom" ended up being that "little thing"?

I can't see Jeff stepping on Jon's toes with that one as it seems to have little if any input from anyone but Cain, maybe he was insulted if Jeff thought the song needed anything more at all.
In spite of Cain's great writing output since he joined the band to the present, I do wonder whether he was afraid he'd be the odd man out with the great chemistry between NS & JSS. Soul Goes On, Coming Home, and Believe In Me are great "Journey" tunes, neither Cain's writing nor his piano could have improved them.
It sounds like things were in motion before that song was written and Cain's indifference to discover the writing chemistry with JSS in that interview may be a great clue as to what has come about.

[Scarab Pilot]

Gee Neal...I'm like getting a raging clue right now!!!

[Matthew]

Those comments about how "HE" had to be Jeff's vocal coach?

Maybe he was, Sherrie? God knows there were plenty of fans who were complaining about JSS's performances last summer.

All those comments like how "HE" knew what it took to make a Journey record and all "HE" had done to make Journey successful? Puleaze.

Since 1981, he has done a lot to make Journey successful. Certainly enough to justify sounding like an authority in the band.

Yeah, he thinks he's the ~Maestro~ in his own mind and wants everyone to think the band wouldn't be able to function without him calling all the musical shots. That's what he felt was threatened.

Who says he wasn't calling all the shots? Is there any evidence at all that Cain has been overruled on anything since Augeri left the band?

Sherrie - I guess we'll have to agree to differ on this. You think it's insecurity and ego. I think it's because Cain didn't rate JSS highly enough.

Neal and Jeff might just get together and show him and the fanbase that Jon isn't the musical guru of Journey.

Honestly...apart from "Believe In Me" I really think the Schon/JSS collaborations are highly overrated on this board. And the unfortunate truth is.....these collaborations were commercial bombs, in any case. I really can't believe that Cain watched Soul Sirkus and thought...wow...this is so superb and successful that my seniority in Journey is under threat! Not likely....

So he waited for that opportunity when there was a chance to slip the fly in the ointment. Neal's ego was starting to look a little bruised by Jeff's command of the stage and the resulting attention and adoration, so Jon started working on him.

Now here's where we do agree....

[Matthew]

It sounds like things were in motion before that song was written and Cain's indifference to discover the writing chemistry with JSS in that interview may be a great clue as to what has come about.

You're right, NMT.... it does seem that Cain never had any intention at all in working with JSS after the European tour. I wonder if Azoff tried to pitch the new line up to the industry between January and April this year?

[NoMoreTails]

It sounds like things were in motion before that song was written and Cain's indifference to discover the writing chemistry with JSS in that interview may be a great clue as to what has come about.

You're right, NMT.... it does seem that Cain never had any intention at all in working with JSS after the European tour. I wonder if Azoff tried to pitch the new line up to the industry between January and April this year?

After seeing what you wrote about the Schon/Soto collaborations, I was perparing a reply along the lines of
"well, they could never measure up to ROR"
Seriously though, I'd like to know the answer to that myself, was management really behind this lineup as much as the band was? Then again was the band itself? I wouldn't be suprised if what they've done was the plan all along.

[NoMoreTails]

It sounds like things were in motion before that song was written and Cain's indifference to discover the writing chemistry with JSS in that interview may be a great clue as to what has come about.

You're right, NMT.... it does seem that Cain never had any intention at all in working with JSS after the European tour.

We've heard talk of JSS and Neal working on some stuff, did Cain ever made any effort to write with JSS at all?

[SF-Dano]

I have stated this before. In my opinion Jon is the main reason for the departure of JSS.

Jon Cain is not a rocker. He is a great balladeer (sp?), but not a hard rocker. Neal has always wanted to rock a bit harder. Jeff is a hard rocker at heart. Jon's writing place in the band may well have been jeopardized in his view.

Now lets see where this all leaves Neal. Neal tried Soul Sirkus with Jeff. Hard rocking tunes, that I personally liked very much. But the general public did not respond, whether that be because of lack of promotion or the material itself. So Neal brings in JSS to Journey and hopes for a change to a harder rocking sound with Journey. Jon does not agree with the new harder direction Schon and Soto see. If Neal quits Journey, then there is no more Journey and he loses whatever name value is still there. Cain would not leave the band. Jon I don't think can be fired from the band as he and Neal are basically partners since Perry had left. Jon would not allow the usage of the Journey name where he is not involved. So Neal has to go along if we wants to continue making money and sustain his lifestyle.

Yes it is about money people. And I truely believe it is about musical differences between JSS and Friga too. I think the trust and loyalty Neal has placed in Friga is a huge error. But in the end, it is their band, and they can do what they want. We as fans have the choice of either enjoying the music and continuing to be fans or not enjoying the music or the members and moving on. Simple stuff really.

And the whole thing about Neal's ego being bruised by a popular vocalist. Please . He has shared the stage with Sammy Hagar, Paul Rogers, Steve Perry, and many others. He has even shared the stage with other great guitarists including Satriani, Vai, Meneketti, Santana, Clapton, Slash, etc. And all these peers have nothing but good things to say about Neal Schon. No he is not a saint, not a rocket scientist, but is well respected in his field by his peers. In my opinion, Neal should have started his own band, ala SS, and just stuck with it. But, it is his life and I am sure the money the Journey name brings in is not just good, but great. How many of us self righteous people here would turn down millions in a year for a couple hundred grand. It is easy to say you would here, but not so easy to do in real life.

Peace out.

[Red13JoePa]

Seriously though, I'd like to know the answer to that myself, was management really behind this lineup as much as the band was?

JMJ, you know what? That's a valid question. And I've never been one to bash Irv, and I know sometimes a big industry name like Irv gets to tell artists what they will and won't do (shit that was happening as far back as DoubleH) but if this is the case then I ask:


At what point does a band say, "Er, thanks for that input but shut yer yap and do your job. You fucking work for US not vice versa."

[KCfla]

At what point does a band say, "Er, thanks for that input but shut yer yap and do your job. You fucking work for US not vice versa."

IF that is the case Pa- then the obvious answer in this case is "Not soon enough!"