100 Years & Save Me performed Live

[blt man]

I suppose that if someone was a fan of the original Grand Illusion arrangement as opposed to Dennis' newer version, you may like Gowan's take on that song.

blt, with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about here. Other than having two guitar players all the time, Styx and DDY do the same arrangement of the classic Styx songs they both do ("Grand Illusion", "Come Sail Away", "Lady").

My guess is he's talking about the album arrangement of TGI with the opening vocal lines coming one right after another, instead of drawn out and alternated with the harmonized guitars. The former is the way Styx has been playing it since LG joined.

Yup. Just did not use the correct words. Thanks.

[bugsymalone]

I loved the two guitars, but we have talked about that before on this board. Dennis could really use a second guitar and some stronger backing vocals in his live show, IMO.

His voice is always spot-on to me, so I don't know where anyone gets the idea he is "losing it." He sounds wonderful on these video clips. I honestly do not know how he keeps the power in his voice up night after night when he does several concerts in a row. He does not get to rest his voice until the show is over. No breaks for another lead singer to take over.

Bugsy

[stabbim]

I would agree that for the most part, both Tommy's and Dennis' voices have held up really well. Tommy isn't reaching for all those highs as much, and DDY still does. Very rarely have I heard him miss a note (I heard him chunk either "Desert Moon" or "Don't Let It End" once). A good example of TS' dropoff is "Too Much TIme On My Hands". He doesn't reach for some of those notes anymore, and some of the times I've heard him do it (tape or live) he almost speaks some of the parts. Also keep in mind both TS and DDY are still singing the songs in the original keys. Even Geddy is dropping a few songs down now a whole step to be able to sing them better. Not many, but a few.

Well, to be fair to Geddy, he was reaching much higher on a more regular basis than TS or DDY ever did. I mean, Circumstances? Cygnus X-1? Something For Nothing? Unreal. I think ironically only JY was in that territory much back in the day (unless those extremely high notes in Young Man or Winner Take All are actually JC or DDY, which I suppose is not out of the realm of possibility.)

I agree that DDY still sounds remarkably good all things considered, but he shies away from some of the highs too. I haven't heard him go for "son of a gun" in RTP or "motocar" in TGI for quite some time.

As for the overall quality of the live show, I haven't been able to get any of these clips to play in Firefox, but I did check this out:

http://tva.canoe.com/stations/cfer/nouv ... tml#111945

And apart from DDY's voice and the brilliant idea to use The Message as a concert opener, I wasn't terribly impressed.

[StyxCollector]

My guess is he's talking about the album arrangement of TGI with the opening vocal lines coming one right after another, instead of drawn out and alternated with the harmonized guitars. The former is the way Styx has been playing it since LG joined.

Yup. Just did not use the correct words. Thanks.

Actually, Styx did the harmonized guitar version since 1977 right through 1997. People who saw Styx live knew that version.

Since 1999 I have heard it done both with and without those guitar riffs. The last time I saw them they added 'em back, but early on they went the other way and took them out to be more like the studio version. They did the same thing with "Miss America" for awhile - they stopped the awful kick drum "are you ready?" BS and did the keyboard intro. That didn't last.

I've found Styx like most bands to be a creature of habit when it comes to live arrangements.

[StyxCollector]

Well, to be fair to Geddy, he was reaching much higher on a more regular basis than TS or DDY ever did. I mean, Circumstances? Cygnus X-1? Something For Nothing? Unreal. I think ironically only JY was in that territory much back in the day (unless those extremely high notes in Young Man or Winner Take All are actually JC or DDY, which I suppose is not out of the realm of possibility.)

True. True ball pinchers!

I agree that DDY still sounds remarkably good all things considered, but he shies away from some of the highs too. I haven't heard him go for "son of a gun" in RTP or "motocar" in TGI for quite some time.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but smart singers do that. I've noted here on this board before that at the end of that long note of "Suite Madame Blue", he moves the mic away. It's a good technique, but at least DDY (nor TS) are unrealistic about where their voices are now.

As for the overall quality of the live show, I haven't been able to get any of these clips to play in Firefox, but I did check this out:

http://tva.canoe.com/stations/cfer/nouv ... tml#111945

And apart from DDY's voice and the brilliant idea to use The Message as a concert opener, I wasn't terribly impressed.

Well, I think both bands have their + and - category when it comes to the live experience. There are things about a Styx show I like and things about a DDY show I like. Lining it up quickly:

Drummer: Advantage Styx, although I feel Todd these days is getting farther away from the core parts and the way JP played 'em. Kyle is OK, but if you look at my reviews of the shows, I'm always pretty critical of him.
Bass Player: Advantage Dennis. Hank is much better and quite frankly, Ricky has altered parts and chaned the feel of some songs like "Blue Collar Man" which don't work for me.
Keyboard Player: Even. Larry isn't perfect, neither is John. DDY doesn't play much keys, so he's a "guest artist"
Guitars: Advantage Styx. No questions here, having 2 is better and having the guys who did those parts is also better. Tommy is OK, and does as good of a job as he can, but to me, when Glen is around, it's worlds apart than without.
Lead Singers: Even with an edge to DDY. TS and DDY are fine. LG is fine but bad when singing DDY. JY's voice is odd these days.
Backup Vocals: Even. DDY's main backup singer is Hank (even though Kate and Suzanne come out, and John does some). Hank does a great job. As for Styx live, it's spotty. With Glen I felt the harmonies were much tighter and I don't feel that the voices blend now as well as they did with the classic lineup. Again, I'm talking live not in the studio.

Neither lineup is perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

[stabbim]

My guess is he's talking about the album arrangement of TGI with the opening vocal lines coming one right after another, instead of drawn out and alternated with the harmonized guitars. The former is the way Styx has been playing it since LG joined.

Yup. Just did not use the correct words. Thanks.

Actually, Styx did the harmonized guitar version since 1977 right through 1997. People who saw Styx live knew that version.

Yeah, strangely it took them until the 97 tour to try the album version of it. I haven't heard the drawn-out version post-99. When did you hear it?

I've found Styx like most bands to be a creature of habit when it comes to live arrangements.

Very much so. On that DDY clip, I thought it was a bit odd going for the exact same outro as the live version that Styx has always played. I guess once you find something that works....

[shaka]

I like the tune and the video is good. I suppose Dennis was throwing Canada a bone by using a French Canadian in the duet. I hope the American release gets rid of the french on the song. I'm excited to lay my hands on the album as I think I will enjoy it.

I think LaPointe bites royally. He sings like he's constipated. I can't believe people rip JY while giving this guy a pass. JY can sing circles around him. I hope the American release gets rid of the french on the song.

DDY is much better off with two guitar players. I think he could get away with one but that person would not be Tommy D who's tone is absolutely antiquated and horrible. I don't care much for Tommy D's phrasing either. Adding the other guy works because his tone is so much better and covers up Tommy D.

[styxfansite]

I like the tune and the video is good. I suppose Dennis was throwing Canada a bone by using a French Canadian in the duet. I hope the American release gets rid of the french on the song. I'm excited to lay my hands on the album as I think I will enjoy it.

I think LaPointe bites royally. He sings like he's constipated. I can't believe people rip JY while giving this guy a pass. JY can sing circles around him. I hope the American release gets rid of the french on the song.

DDY is much better off with two guitar players. I think he could get away with one but that person would not be Tommy D who's tone is absolutely antiquated and horrible. I don't care much for Tommy D's phrasing either. Adding the other guy works because his tone is so much better and covers up Tommy D.

That would be an interesting duet for Dennis. Dennis and Jy, "One Hundred years from now"

[shaka]

There are a lot of factors that can affect vocal performance. I saw Tommy struggle a bit on the man awards show and have seen Dennis struggle too. I tend to think that sometimes the problems are the stage monitoring systems these guys use. Typically they use in-ear monitors and things are great but I know for some of these one-off performances they have had to use regular stage monitors possibly in conjunction with the in-ears which can affect performance. Also in-ears can be a problem if you do not have adequate time to set up each individual mix.

[shaka]

I like the tune and the video is good. I suppose Dennis was throwing Canada a bone by using a French Canadian in the duet. I hope the American release gets rid of the french on the song. I'm excited to lay my hands on the album as I think I will enjoy it.

I think LaPointe bites royally. He sings like he's constipated. I can't believe people rip JY while giving this guy a pass. JY can sing circles around him. I hope the American release gets rid of the french on the song.

DDY is much better off with two guitar players. I think he could get away with one but that person would not be Tommy D who's tone is absolutely antiquated and horrible. I don't care much for Tommy D's phrasing either. Adding the other guy works because his tone is so much better and covers up Tommy D.

That would be an interesting duet for Dennis. Dennis and Jy, "One Hundred years from now"

Truth be told I think JY would do a better job.

[styxfansite]

There are a lot of factors that can affect vocal performance. I saw Tommy struggle a bit on the man awards show and have seen Dennis struggle too. I tend to think that sometimes the problems are the stage monitoring systems these guys use. Typically they use in-ear monitors and things are great but I know for some of these one-off performances they have had to use regular stage monitors possibly in conjunction with the in-ears which can affect performance. Also in-ears can be a problem if you do not have adequate time to set up each individual mix.

I think Todd can vouch for that on the "CMN Show". His ear monitor went out and he had to play the whole show without them.

[stabbim]

Neither lineup is perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

Ayup. Hard for me to go point for point like you did -- "sum of the parts," and all that.

I will say that drums are a big deal to me (being a fellow bass player, I'm sure you can relate ) and DDY's drummer has a stiffness to his playing that I've always found irritating. I haven't heard enough from the keyboard player to make an overall judgment call on his chops (where I have absolutely no complaints about LG) but boy howdy, the synth sound in that TGI clip is pure velveeta. Awful. I understand that DDY always wanted to be a frontman more than an instrumentalist, and now that he's the entire focus of the show it makes sense for him to slip into that role more often, but I still don't like it and wish he would stick to playing his parts.

[shaka]

Neither lineup is perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

Ayup. Hard for me to go point for point like you did -- "sum of the parts," and all that.

I will say that drums are a big deal to me (being a fellow bass player, I'm sure you can relate ) and DDY's drummer has a stiffness to his playing that I've always found irritating. I haven't heard enough from the keyboard player to make an overall judgment call on his chops (where I have absolutely no complaints about LG) but boy howdy, the synth sound in that TGI clip is pure velveeta. Awful. I understand that DDY always wanted to be a frontman more than an instrumentalist, and now that he's the entire focus of the show it makes sense for him to slip into that role more often, but I still don't like it and wish he would stick to playing his parts.

I just watched the CSA vid. Whoever Dennis has playing keys could at least get the keys to sound like the original. His parts during CSA sounded horrible with one caveat: the organ. I liked the addition of organ.

[StyxCollector]

I will say that drums are a big deal to me (being a fellow bass player, I'm sure you can relate ) and DDY's drummer has a stiffness to his playing that I've always found irritating. I haven't heard enough from the keyboard player to make an overall judgment call on his chops (where I have absolutely no complaints about LG) but boy howdy, the synth sound in that TGI clip is pure velveeta. Awful. I understand that DDY always wanted to be a frontman more than an instrumentalist, and now that he's the entire focus of the show it makes sense for him to slip into that role more often, but I still don't like it and wish he would stick to playing his parts.

Well, agree on the drummer. NOthing worse than trying to play bass with a drummer you can't connect with. Kyle is a bit stiff, and it irks me every time he just murders those fills in "Castle Walls". Cringeworthy. He has improved since that first show at the Rosemont all those years ago, but still.

Now, I think Todd is going the other way - he's getting too "loosey goosey" so-to-speak. He needs to tighten it down. He's got monster chops and great feel. Ricky kills the feel of the current Styx rhythm section for me. Glen and Todd worked really well.

John did his homework and is one of the only keyboard players he's used who gets really good sounds and doesn't make much in the way of compromises. Some are off, but Rick was worse IMHO However, I do agree that I wish DDY played more keys. I've always said this. And I'll go on record as saying that *if* DDY ever plays with Styx again, he'll be a frontman and just do some solos like he does now. There will be a hired keyboard player.

What keeps me away from both more often than not is song selection. I'm going to see DDY for the first time in awhile on Saturday; I waited 'til he had new material. It seems Styx has changed up their show enough at this point I'd see 'em again.

[Grotelul]

Save Me was good but Suite Madame Blue ..ugh. Seeing two women on stage swaying back and forth to that song made me ill and the guitar solo left left a lot to be desired.

Say what you want about the current Styx, at least they still have the presence and attitude of a rock band that a song like Suite Madame Blue deserves....even if I have to listen to Gowan sing it. I can handle Dennis live, but only when playing his solo stuff or slower Styx tunes.

[DerriD]

Save Me was good but Suite Madame Blue ..ugh. Seeing two women on stage swaying back and forth to that song made me ill and the guitar solo left left a lot to be desired.

Say what you want about the current Styx, at least they still have the presence and attitude of a rock band that a song like Suite Madame Blue deserves....even if I have to listen to Gowan sing it. I can handle Dennis live, but only when playing his solo stuff or slower Styx tunes.

That echoes the sentiment of alot of us. Keep in mind though that Dennis is 60. Whatdayaexpect?

[StyxCollector]

Say what you want about the current Styx, at least they still have the presence and attitude of a rock band that a song like Suite Madame Blue deserves....even if I have to listen to Gowan sing it. I can handle Dennis live, but only when playing his solo stuff or slower Styx tunes.

I don't necessarily agree ... Styx "appears" to be more rock, but I find both shows to be alarmingly similar in many ways.

[stabbim]

And I'll go on record as saying that *if* DDY ever plays with Styx again, he'll be a frontman and just do some solos like he does now. There will be a hired keyboard player.

That would be...unfortunate.

What keeps me away from both more often than not is song selection. I'm going to see DDY for the first time in awhile on Saturday; I waited 'til he had new material. It seems Styx has changed up their show enough at this point I'd see 'em again.

Ayup. I saw Styx live for the first time since '03 earlier this year. They were playing a smallish venue in an "evening-with" format, and I hadn't seen them with Ricky yet, so I decided to check it out. It was cool, there were a few new bits and pieces, but I doubt I'll go again until they've got a new album to promote.

I haven't seen DDY live since the split. I'd be happy to check out his show (especially with new material) if it was playing anywhere near me, but so far no dice.

[Grotelul]

Say what you want about the current Styx, at least they still have the presence and attitude of a rock band that a song like Suite Madame Blue deserves....even if I have to listen to Gowan sing it. I can handle Dennis live, but only when playing his solo stuff or slower Styx tunes.

I don't necessarily agree ... Styx "appears" to be more rock, but I find both shows to be alarmingly similar in many ways.

In what ways do you find them similar? Dennis and JY both being cornball posers?

[blt man]

Save Me was good but Suite Madame Blue ..ugh. Seeing two women on stage swaying back and forth to that song made me ill and the guitar solo left left a lot to be desired.

I presume if more members in Dennis' band were able to sing high for the harmonies he would not have put the ladies on stage when he started touring on his own some years ago. Other than Hank, I am not sure any of the other band members can sing the high harmonies. Putting a couple of women on stage solves this. Problem is its a turn off for some people. I simply ignore them. Since Glen does not play all shows, the ladies are still needed.

As for the guitar solo, it will be interesting to see if Dennis starts using a second guitarist at the shows where Glen does not show to counteract the perceived weakness in Tommy D's playing.

[styxfansite]

Here is a cool link thanks to a poster at DDY talk .....

http://entertainment1.sympatico.msn.ca/ ... nisDeYoung

There is also an interview with DDY at the end of the songs.

Its funny I have stupid Firefox and I cant get these
Anyway to send a better link?

If you are still having issues with non-Microsoft software looking at the videos you can see the saveme video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAIOLf3Zm5Y

[stabbim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAIOLf3Zm5Y

First time I've heard that one all the way through -- pretty cool tune.

Thanks very much for posting it.

[StyxCollector]

Say what you want about the current Styx, at least they still have the presence and attitude of a rock band that a song like Suite Madame Blue deserves....even if I have to listen to Gowan sing it. I can handle Dennis live, but only when playing his solo stuff or slower Styx tunes.

I don't necessarily agree ... Styx "appears" to be more rock, but I find both shows to be alarmingly similar in many ways.

In what ways do you find them similar? Dennis and JY both being cornball posers?

Look, DDY has been doing the same basic schtick live since at least the late 70s, early 80s. You know what you're getting at a DDY show. It's the Styx show you used to see (the shuffle step in ROckin' the Paradise, et al.). It works; DDY is a good ringmaster. Although they had multiple singers who talked, it was clear in the heyday of Styx who the ringmater was and made for a better show. It's also the exact thing many hate about the DDY-led Styx.

Styx now is a bit rudderless live. Is the leader JY? Tommy? No one on stage has the commanding presence that DDY did. Not saying that's good or bad, it is what it is. Styx has done the posed thing (remember them coming out to the raised S T Y X letters as shilouettes on the tour a few years ago? Some of the stage stuff they've done? DDY rubbed off on 'em ...).

I've seen Styx and DDY a lot since 1999. I just don't see a vast amount of difference overall in the stage shows since they have the same lineage. Are they different? Absolutely. It's more than set list choices, but you can't play with people for close to 30 years and not come away with anything.

[styxfansite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAIOLf3Zm5Y

First time I've heard that one all the way through -- pretty cool tune.

Thanks very much for posting it.

Just notcied the video has a jump in it, but it still works ok.

[bugsymalone]

Thanks so much for posting that vid. on YouTube!

Bugsy

[stabbim]

It works; DDY is a good ringmaster. Although they had multiple singers who talked, it was clear in the heyday of Styx who the ringmater was and made for a better show. It's also the exact thing many hate about the DDY-led Styx.

My first exposure to Styx live was the CITA video, and I remember being taken aback at how much attention TS commanded. In a way, he seemed to be more "the" frontman than DDY. Of course, we're talking about the context of one show (and an edited version at that) but it stood somewhat in contrast to the band dynamic as I had understood it up to that point.

[bugsymalone]

My first exposure to Styx live was the CITA video, and I remember being taken aback at how much attention TS commanded. In a way, he seemed to be more "the" frontman than DDY. Of course, we're talking about the context of one show (and an edited version at that) but it stood somewhat in contrast to the band dynamic as I had understood it up to that point.

Exact opposite for me. Could not take my eyes off of DDY. I always felt he commanded the stage. That is what makes for watching a band you like so much fun. You are drawn to the one (or two) you really like seeing live, but you love the music they make together as a group.

Bugsy

[styxfansite]

Noticed they posted the video for "This Time Next Year" and "The making of Dennis DeYoung's concert special in Montreal".

http://entertainment1.sympatico.msn.ca/Music/Artists/Articles/DennisDeYoung#

[MtlLady]

Noticed they posted the video for "This Time Next Year" and "The making of Dennis DeYoung's concert special in Montreal".

http://entertainment1.sympatico.msn.ca/Music/Artists/Articles/DennisDeYoung#

I'm just wondering where you guys have been all this time. These earlier vids were recorded and posted back in June! The show was also aired live on CHOM in Montreal.

They just added those last two vids recently, though.

(Later note: Just realized my post could be read as coming off cranky. Not cranky, just doing three things at once - gotta stop doing that. I had assumed incorrectly that the link had already been posted, otherwise I could have just done it myself. )

[styxfansite]

Noticed they posted the video for "This Time Next Year" and "The making of Dennis DeYoung's concert special in Montreal".

http://entertainment1.sympatico.msn.ca/Music/Artists/Articles/DennisDeYoung#

I'm just wondering where you guys have been all this time. These earlier vids were recorded and posted back in June! The show was also aired live on CHOM in Montreal.

They just added those last two vids recently, though.

(Later note: Just realized my post could be read as coming off cranky. Not cranky, just doing three things at once - gotta stop doing that. I had assumed incorrectly that the link had already been posted, otherwise I could have just done it myself. )

I just happened to look back at that site again and noticed that they had added those two vids late, as you said. After seeing it the first time around, I thought well thats all the vids, and didn't know there were more.