Lawrence Gowan Is Infinite Times Better Then Dennis DeYoung

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Postby styxfansite » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:43 pm

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:
Ash wrote:

Screw it all. Dennis better never go back to Styx. He can perform and hang with Tommy and Glen all he wants - but if he ever shares a stage with JY again, I'll likely lose respect for him.


I thought I'd lose respect for him too, BUT as time goes on I feel that he is the better person and would be the one to extend a handshake or hug to him, IMO.

Life seems to be flying by SO fast, I feel that there's just not going to be much time left for a reunion with Dennis, JY, Tommy and Chuck. It has to be now (within 2 years) or never.


Or "This Time Next Year" :D
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extend a handshake or hug to him

Postby cittadeeno23 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:49 am

I would love to see Dennis and JY make up. I would probably cry!
By the way, that pic of JY at McDonalds made me Laugh out loud in my cubicle!
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I don't believe JY and DDY will ever "make up"

Postby kipthekid » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:36 am

I believe that DDY and Tommy could "reconcile" tomorrow and Chuck and DDY could probably use their lifelong relationship to get over the events of the past 8 years.

JY, on the other hand, is SO angry at Dennis. I believe JY would rather be playing Bar Mitvah's and Retirement Home Openings (which may be next for them if they're not careful) than reunite with Dennis.

At some point, a band with more "upside" is going to realize that Todd Sucherman is there for the taking and scoop him up. He's as good a rock drummer as one will find. He's wasting his talent playing 45 minute warm up sets for Def Leopard.
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Postby styxfanNH » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:09 am

PSSt,
I heard they just walk on stage for a second and wave hi to the audience then leave. It's a 60 second set....
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Postby Zan » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:28 am

styxfanNH wrote:PSSt,
I heard they just walk on stage for a second and wave hi to the audience then leave. It's a 60 second set....



LMAO!
-Zan :)

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Postby DarwinNebraska » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:27 pm

styxfanNH wrote:PSSt,
I heard they just walk on stage for a second and wave hi to the audience then leave. It's a 60 second set....


That would be an improvement... no warbling Gowan.
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Postby BlackWall » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:29 pm

I just saw them this past Sunday in Columbus, OH.. It was a good, but all too short set. I want to say they were on stage just short of an hour. It was a show that also featured Def Leppard and REO.. I understand why they're doing it; touring with a band that's brings as many out as Def Leppard is good exposure, but it's ashame because I honestly think Styx is the better band; or at least better songwriters- even my girlfriend's teenage kids agree, and didn't really even care for Def Leppard at all. I think Leppard is good, but there doesn't seem to be much underneath the surface with them. I guess it just depends on what you look for in music. I could be wrong, I've never really sampled their individual albums.

But, since this thread is about Gowan/DeYoung, I have to say that they are really just too different to compare. Gowan is a great performer, and I kind of dig his raspy vox, but he hasn't written anything for Styx that comes close to Dennis' caliber of material(he hasn't really been given the opportunity, either). He's a rocker, where Dennis is more theatrical and operatic. I think it comes down to the fact that Gowan is a fit for where Styx is right now, and Dennis isn't so much; although some of the songs(mainly "Crossing The Rubicon") on his new album might prove otherwise.
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Postby BlackWall » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:31 pm

I just saw them this past Sunday in Columbus, OH.. It was a good, but all too short set. I want to say they were on stage just short of an hour. It was a show that also featured Def Leppard and REO.. I understand why they're doing it; touring with a band that's brings as many out as Def Leppard is good exposure, but it's ashame because I honestly think Styx is the better band; or at least better songwriters- even my girlfriend's teenage kids agree, and didn't really even care for Def Leppard at all. I think Leppard is good, but there doesn't seem to be much underneath the surface with them. I guess it just depends on what you look for in music. I could be wrong, I've never really sampled their individual albums.

But, since this thread is about Gowan/DeYoung, I have to say that they are really just too different to compare. Gowan is a great performer, and I kind of dig his raspy vox, but he hasn't written anything for Styx that comes close to Dennis' caliber of material(he hasn't really been given the opportunity, either). He's a rocker, where Dennis is more theatrical and operatic. I think it comes down to the fact that Gowan is a fit for where Styx is right now, and Dennis isn't so much; although some of the songs(mainly "Crossing The Rubicon") on his new album might prove otherwise.
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Postby DarwinNebraska » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:44 pm

Def Leppard's first 4 albums are great, however they haven't done anything worthwhile since 1987... and since Steve Clark died... and since Mutt Lang stopped producing them.

"Pyromania" and "Hysteria" are absolute classic albums from start to finish.
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Postby brywool » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:46 am

I would say that Gowan's a MUCH better player than Dennis. Definitely. As a vocalist, I think Dennis is better.
As a showman, GOWAN. Hands down. His energy really is what kicks Styx in the ass these days. When Burtnik
was in the band, there was NO touching this band as far as showmanship. Seriously energetic shows.

Also, I think Gowan's cuts on Cyclo are better than ANYTHING Dennis has done since Rockin' The Paradise. Lyrically great. Melodically great.
Funny thing is, that Fields of the Brave and More Love for the Money are VERY DeYoungian circa 1981. Those songs, if written by Dennis would
have fit RIGHT in to the theme of the Paradise Theatre album. Same kind of sentiment as AD 1928, Pieces of Eight, and even Grand Illusion.
Deyoung could've written the lyrics to both of those. Speaking of that, when Dennis writes about stuff
OTHER THAN LOVE it comes off great. When he writes about love, it comes off as over sappy. Dennis used to write brilliant political commentary
into his lyrics. From what I've heard of the new album, it sounds like he's going back to that a bit. THANK GOD.
NO. He's NOT Steve F'ing Perry. But he's Arnel F'ing Pineda and I'm okay with that.
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Re: I don't believe JY and DDY will ever "make up"

Postby StyxCollector » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:40 am

kipthekid wrote:I believe that DDY and Tommy could "reconcile" tomorrow and Chuck and DDY could probably use their lifelong relationship to get over the events of the past 8 years.


I don't know if it'll be smoothed over that easy. Chuck genuinely seems hurt about the lawsuit, and the feelings don't just get magically fixed.

kipthekid wrote:JY, on the other hand, is SO angry at Dennis. I believe JY would rather be playing Bar Mitvah's and Retirement Home Openings (which may be next for them if they're not careful) than reunite with Dennis.


I'm with you on this one, but JY is also a businessman, and will see the value at some point. When? Couldn't say, but no time soon.

kipthekid wrote:At some point, a band with more "upside" is going to realize that Todd Sucherman is there for the taking and scoop him up. He's as good a rock drummer as one will find. He's wasting his talent playing 45 minute warm up sets for Def Leopard.


Todd had the opportunity to tour with Brian Wilson and turned it down. He's a good studio drummer. So Todd will be OK even if he doesn't play with Styx.
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Fields of the Brave "DeYoungian" circa 1981?

Postby kipthekid » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:36 pm

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. IMHO, Tommy and JY NEVER should have allowed that "song" to be on a Styx record. Lyrically, it makes KWH look like Shakespeare and musically it sounds like it was written in about 10 minutes. IMHO, Gowan was trying to do a "Styx impersonation" and it ended up sounding like a bad parody. It's poorly written and poorly sung. Not to mention, the lyrics themselves - the Navajo reference - are pretty profane. BAD stuff indeed.

More Love for the Money? I liked that one - just a nice little song. Actually, I see that song as being relatively DeYoungian - circa the "Desert Moon" era/milieu.

It's all a matter of opinion - Gowan clearly has a TON of energy on stage...depending upon one's taste, it's either invigorating or annoying. I find it to be both. Some critics have called it "distracting." Vocally, he's by far the weakest lead singer Styx has. Dennis' voical superiority - especially live - IMHO - easily compensates for the fact that he doesn't spin around repeatedly when playing the keys or hop up on his instrument. Also, of late, Dennis' self deprecating humor makes for a nice stage presence.

With all of this being said, in the very unlikely event of a "reunion," I wouldn't want to see Gowan go. His skill on keys is up there with the best in rock/popular music.
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Re: Fields of the Brave "DeYoungian" circa 1981?

Postby piecesofeight » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:54 pm

kipthekid wrote: Gowan was trying to do a "Styx impersonation" and it ended up sounding like a bad parody.



ALWAYS! :roll:
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Re: Fields of the Brave "DeYoungian" circa 1981?

Postby Rockwriter » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:02 am

kipthekid wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. IMHO, Tommy and JY NEVER should have allowed that "song" to be on a Styx record. Lyrically, it makes KWH look like Shakespeare and musically it sounds like it was written in about 10 minutes. IMHO, Gowan was trying to do a "Styx impersonation" and it ended up sounding like a bad parody. It's poorly written and poorly sung. Not to mention, the lyrics themselves - the Navajo reference - are pretty profane. BAD stuff indeed.

More Love for the Money? I liked that one - just a nice little song. Actually, I see that song as being relatively DeYoungian - circa the "Desert Moon" era/milieu.

It's all a matter of opinion - Gowan clearly has a TON of energy on stage...depending upon one's taste, it's either invigorating or annoying. I find it to be both. Some critics have called it "distracting." Vocally, he's by far the weakest lead singer Styx has. Dennis' voical superiority - especially live - IMHO - easily compensates for the fact that he doesn't spin around repeatedly when playing the keys or hop up on his instrument. Also, of late, Dennis' self deprecating humor makes for a nice stage presence.

With all of this being said, in the very unlikely event of a "reunion," I wouldn't want to see Gowan go. His skill on keys is up there with the best in rock/popular music.



I'm with you on the "Fields of the Brave" thing. The lyrics just don't do it for me, especially the God-awful rhyming of "Plain" and "aGAIN", LOL. Hey man, those words don't rhyme, don't make it worse by mispronouncing one of them! He pulled a Bryan Adams on that one, a la "There's no love like yo love and no other can give mo love", LOL. Plus there's the lyrical gem, "They were hopeful, not depraved," LOL. That sounds like something I might have written in junior high school.

"More Love For The Money", on the other hand, is one of my favorite tracks from CYCLO. I think it's strong, in fact I think it's stronger than anything Tommy brought to the table for that record. (I DO like the music to "One With Everything", but I also think that it sounds like Styx trying to do an impression of Drama-era Yes mixed with Emerson, Lake and Powell, instead of Styx, and the lyrics of that song are even worse . . . "Smiling ear to ear, it's something in the atmosphere"?! That's like something Jon Anderson would throw away, like, "No, that's too goofy", LOL. He may write about purple wolfhounds, but there's a limit . . . )

I also agree that Gowan is one of the weaker vocalists in the band, along with JY now that his voice sounds so damaged. But I will say this: when Gowan joined the band he was not a good harmony singer, and that was a large part of what I didn't like about his addition at first. In the interim he has learned how to blend a lot better, and although I still don't believe he's in the same universe with Dennis as a pure vocalist, he's grown a lot in his role in the band and I think the harmonies with Tommy, JY, Gowan and Ricky sound great. Gowan can sing harmony in tune now.

The thing about his stage presence . . . I know the prevailing wisdom is that Gowan is a "rock guy" as opposed to Dennis being a "Broadway guy", but I really disagree with that. I think he is very much a Freddie Mercury-esque, campy, almost cabaret-type presence, in his own way just as campy as Dennis, albeit with a lot more leaping around involved. And I don't mean that as disparagement, becuse that's what Styx is. It would be absurd to get a real "rock" front man like Steve Tyler in the mix. Gowan actually fits the band in that respect very well.

I hope all is well.

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Re: Fields of the Brave "DeYoungian" circa 1981?

Postby blt man » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:41 am

Rockwriter wrote:
The thing about his stage presence . . . I know the prevailing wisdom is that Gowan is a "rock guy" as opposed to Dennis being a "Broadway guy", but I really disagree with that. I think he is very much a Freddie Mercury-esque, campy, almost cabaret-type presence, in his own way just as campy as Dennis, albeit with a lot more leaping around involved. And I don't mean that as disparagement, becuse that's what Styx is. It would be absurd to get a real "rock" front man like Steve Tyler in the mix. Gowan actually fits the band in that respect very well.

I hope all is well.

Sterling


A lot of people here call Gowan a rock guy but historically, his music has not always been that way. Rock guy was simply the role he was hired to play now (and plays a campy version of it pretty well). Gowan was as much an 80s pop guy as there was at the time (and a piano guy too).
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Re: Fields of the Brave "DeYoungian" circa 1981?

Postby stabbim » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:32 am

Rockwriter wrote: "More Love For The Money", on the other hand, is one of my favorite tracks from CYCLO.



"A circus flea from A to B
I jump for my keeper
In search of true enlightenment
For 10% cheaper"

One of the better lyrical passages on the album, IMO.

(Oh, and chalk up another vote for the awful-ness of "Fields Of The Brave.")
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Postby Zan » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:48 am

More Love For the Money is definitely a great song, lyrically. I have to disagree, if only just a little, about "Fields," however. While I don't think it's got the BEST lyrics of any Styx song, I really appreciate the message of the song. It reflects my own feelings about society in general today, particularly when I watch the news. Depressing as hell when you think of what our ancestors had to face just to provide a life for themselves here. And look what we've done to it. Sad.
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Postby StyxCollector » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:26 am

I'm not a lyrics guy, but let's face it: none of the writers for Styx (except maybe Glen) have had consistent and stellar lyrics. Glen's lyrics are generally above average most of the time. Musically, Gowan's song contributions to Cyclorama are some of the strongest songs. Not quite Styx (more Queen and Beatles than Styx), but decent nonetheless, and certainly stronger than most of what Mr. Shaw brought to the table (again I submit for you: "Yes I Can", one of the worst songs ever put to tape by Styx or a member of Styx; lovely harmonies by Glen, tho :P).

DDY is the one who did a lot of the social commentary. JY tried (a la "Eddie"). At some point the well runs dry unless you're inspired.

I agree with Sterling's assessment of Gowan. While his vocals have gotten better and mix now in the harmonies, it's still not DDY and his renderings of the DDY songs leave a lot to be desired. His stage presence is every bit as non-rock as DDY's was. Styx is what it is.
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Postby stabbim » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:11 am

Zan wrote:I have to disagree, if only just a little, about "Fields," however. While I don't think it's got the BEST lyrics of any Styx song, I really appreciate the message of the song. It reflects my own feelings about society in general today, particularly when I watch the news. Depressing as hell when you think of what our ancestors had to face just to provide a life for themselves here. And look what we've done to it. Sad.


It's just the opposite for me. I think the lyrics are crafted decently enough (the "plain/again" thing doesn't bother me; if I can get over Roger Waters pronouncing "jihad" to rhyme with "my bad" I can get over anything) but I think the song's message is a lie, and that sticks in the craw a bit.

StyxCollector wrote:I'm not a lyrics guy, but let's face it: none of the writers for Styx (except maybe Glen) have had consistent and stellar lyrics.


Ayup. They get the job done, but rarely with any panache or poetry.
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"Fields" Redux

Postby kipthekid » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:24 am

The lyrics IMHO are amateurish - the silly, semi-profane (out of ignorance versus intent IMHO) reference to the Navajo - and sound like something someone would write in 9th grade English class. Dire stuff - not to mention the song simply isn't good on any level. Again, IMHO, it NEVER should have found its way onto a Styx CD.

Glen, for the most part, does write solid lyrics - although I didn't like his lyrics at all on a couple of EOTC tunes("Moving at the Speed of Life" "Everyone's Got a Bomb" ,etc).

Overall, I like some of the directions Tommy has taken his lyrics - IMHO, if it were up to him, he, Dennis and JY would have gone off to a mountain retreat for a month to write BNW in the spirit of the collaborative work they did on Grand Illusion and come up with an ode to their loyal fan base. When it comes to how BNW was made - before the acrimonious split - I do have to side a bit with Tommy and JY.
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Re: "Fields" Redux

Postby DarwinNebraska » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:40 am

kipthekid wrote:Overall, I like some of the directions Tommy has taken his lyrics - IMHO, if it were up to him, he, Dennis and JY would have gone off to a mountain retreat for a month to write BNW in the spirit of the collaborative work they did on Grand Illusion and come up with an ode to their loyal fan base. When it comes to how BNW was made - before the acrimonious split - I do have to side a bit with Tommy and JY.


I agree.

But those sessions would have come to an abrupt halt when Tommy and JY pushed Dennis off the mountain.
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Re: "Fields" Redux

Postby styxfanNH » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:58 am

DarwinNebraska wrote:
kipthekid wrote:Overall, I like some of the directions Tommy has taken his lyrics - IMHO, if it were up to him, he, Dennis and JY would have gone off to a mountain retreat for a month to write BNW in the spirit of the collaborative work they did on Grand Illusion and come up with an ode to their loyal fan base. When it comes to how BNW was made - before the acrimonious split - I do have to side a bit with Tommy and JY.


I agree.

But those sessions would have come to an abrupt halt when Tommy and JY pushed Dennis off the mountain.


You mean thrown.... :wink:
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