why steve perry will never rejoin journey

[Socratic Methodist]

And abortion is 'birth control AFTER the fact'. Kinda sad, really. Let me be irresponsible, have sex....I'll just abort it when the time comes. great philosophy.

Excuse me but at 16, I was a virgin. I wasn't thinking about having sex or getting pregnant or any of the above. I hadn't given ANY thought to birth control simply b/c there was no need. When my stepfather raped me & I became pregnant, I had to learn a LOT fast. Are u saying here that I should have (a) anticipated that my stepfather would rape me & (b) use birth control just in case?

Come on. That's bullshit.

Again, I wasn't talking about RAPE or HEALTH issues.....and why do people CONSISTENTLY use their personal experiences as a defense?

RAPE and HEALTH issues are the MINORITY.

In instances of rape, the baby can be given up, and adopted....in cases of health, yes, an abortion could be justified.

[ArnelRox]

That wasn't the issue. If ur wife was raped, would u expect her to carry the child? Would she want to? How about ur mom?

How would u feel if one of ur sisters was raped & aborted? Would u judge her, stop talking to her?

Think about it. Then answer honestly.

Why is this example always brought up when 99% of abortions are performed out of convenience? So men and women can behave how they want only to kill the innocent later.
If it were my sister? I would want her to carry it and either love him or her or put it up for adoption.

Why is it brought up? It's been brought up today b/c the comment was made that it is NEVER about rape, that's an excuse & another comment was made that ALL rape victims regret aborting. I'm a rape victim (from incest) who got pregnant & aborted & I don't regret it. I was simply telling my story so people could hear another side.

Answer the rest: If ur sister didn't want to carry the child, product of her rape, & aborted, would u judge her or stop talking to her?

[ArnelRox]

Again, I wasn't talking about RAPE or HEALTH issues.....and why do people CONSISTENTLY use their personal experiences as a defense?

I just answered that to RaiderFan. I used MY personal experience b/c of comments made that rape & incest are just excuses & that rape victims who abort regret it. That's why I used my story. To tell ANOTHER side.

RAPE and HEALTH issues are the MINORITY.

Have u worked w/rape victims? I have & I'll tell u that it's FAR more prevalent than u could ever imagine. If u have worked w/them, u would know that.

In instances of rape, the baby can be given up, and adopted....in cases of health, yes, an abortion could be justified.

Thank u for allowing health to justify an abortion. I am assuming then that u condemn me for aborting when I was 16 & raped by my stepfather? Sure I could have stayed in that house, continued to be raped & beaten & carried the child. That was an option. I don't know if I would have lived. I'd either have been killed by his increasingly more violent beatings or I'd have killed him. I chose to run away & abort. He was evil. He had a son who also sexually abused me. I didn't want to bring another of his kids into this world. I needed to survive. Condemn me for that if u must. If this happened to ur daughter, mother, sister, u might just understand.

[Red13JoePa]

You're either pro life or you aren't.

Really? I vote PRO-CHOICE and have 2 kids with two enroute.

Dude, lots of pro aborters have kids.

Not every one of them aborts every one of their pregnancies.


Oh, "I let some of them live, screw you neanderthal pro lifers?"

[Socratic Methodist]

I'd like to chirp in on this topic.....

Me too!

Abortion, whether it is murder or not is irrelavent...

The core issue to 95% of the women abortion relates to is this: 'No one is going to tell me what to do'.

So abortion is reduced to NOT whether or not she is killing an innocent life, but to whether someone should tell them what to do concerning their body.

I find this comical coming from a guy. You've never been pregnant. You've never carried a baby to term. You have no idea. Easy for you to sit back and say what somebody else should do with their body and what's inside.

And abortion is 'birth control AFTER the fact'. Kinda sad, really. Let me be irresponsible, have sex....I'll just abort it when the time comes. great philosophy.

Hey, it takes 2 to tango. If you guys would wrap your weinies it wouldn't be an issue either.

The pro-choice camp will dodge the murder slant on every level, pushing, instead - the 'it is MY choice' mantra.

It is still murder, and it is wrong. If you don't want the child, have it then give it away. There are PLENTY of people who would give away their life savings to have a child.

I agree with you on your last sentence. I watched one of my best friend and her husband go thru the turmoil and stress of finally adopting.

So (reverse rolls here) are you telling me that if you were raped by big bad babba that you would carry the baby to term? Not because that was your choice but because somebody said you had to? I find that hard to believe.

Actually, I've been a psychologist at a group home for Adolescent girls and boys, ages 5-18, for close to 13 years now. I think I'm qualified to chirp in here.

As to your other question - I think it says more that it IS a choice, and is allowed by the law. And women STILL almost ALWAYS choose to abort. I think this says more about the issue than anything else.

Keeping a clean house isn't a law either. But having a filthy house gives you the stigma of being a filthy pig. Having a clean house is a choice, and most people have clean houses(funny, they don't HAVE to keep a clean house, but they do - nonetheless.).....So, in one choice instance, people choose the correct way. And in the other, pick the EASY way.....


And on the same note....

Abortion is legal, but euthanasia isn't....now if that ain't a dumbfuck double-standard.

So the government can't tell you what to do with your body in one instance, but CAN in the other.....can you explain that?

[conversationpc]

...that's an excuse & another comment was made that ALL rape victims regret aborting.

Here's what I actually said since you seem to have purposely mixed up the facts...

Too bad there's not a good study on the subject since it's fairly rare but I would be willing to bet that most women who get an abortion after being raped now regret having done that.

I'm willing to accept your apology now.

[ArnelRox]

I'd like to chirp in on this topic.....

Me too!

Abortion, whether it is murder or not is irrelavent...

The core issue to 95% of the women abortion relates to is this: 'No one is going to tell me what to do'.

So abortion is reduced to NOT whether or not she is killing an innocent life, but to whether someone should tell them what to do concerning their body.

I find this comical coming from a guy. You've never been pregnant. You've never carried a baby to term. You have no idea. Easy for you to sit back and say what somebody else should do with their body and what's inside.

And abortion is 'birth control AFTER the fact'. Kinda sad, really. Let me be irresponsible, have sex....I'll just abort it when the time comes. great philosophy.

Hey, it takes 2 to tango. If you guys would wrap your weinies it wouldn't be an issue either.

The pro-choice camp will dodge the murder slant on every level, pushing, instead - the 'it is MY choice' mantra.

It is still murder, and it is wrong. If you don't want the child, have it then give it away. There are PLENTY of people who would give away their life savings to have a child.

I agree with you on your last sentence. I watched one of my best friend and her husband go thru the turmoil and stress of finally adopting.

So (reverse rolls here) are you telling me that if you were raped by big bad babba that you would carry the baby to term? Not because that was your choice but because somebody said you had to? I find that hard to believe.

Actually, I've been a psychologist at a group home for Adolescent girls and boys, ages 5-18, for close to 13 years now. I think I'm qualified to chirp in here.

As to your other question - I think it says more that it IS a choice, and is allowed by the law. And women STILL almost ALWAYS choose to abort. I think this says more about the issue than anything else.

Keeping a clean house isn't a law either. But having a filthy house gives you the stigma of being a filthy pig. Having a clean house is a choice, and most people have clean houses(funny, they don't HAVE to keep a clean house, but they do - nonetheless.).....So, in one choice instance, people choose the correct way. And in the other, pick the EASY way.....


And on the same note....

Abortion is legal, but euthanasia isn't....now if that ain't a dumbfuck double-standard.

So the government can't tell you what to do with your body in one instance, but CAN in the other.....can you explain that?

U said a lot, but u avoided Deb's question about what u would do. Interesting how u guys spout out a lot but always avoid the question. That speaks volumes to me. Red13 can't answer my questions either.

[Red13JoePa]

Red13 can't answer my questions either.

The hell I can't. I DID.

I'm pro life, period across the board no matter what guilt trip scenarios you lay out.

[ArnelRox]

Too bad there's not a good study on the subject since it's fairly rare but I would be willing to bet that most women who get an abortion after being raped now regret having done that.

I'm willing to accept your apology now.

No apology. I was talking about ur statement AFTER that. The one about the testimonials u have heard.

I have worked w/MANY rape victims, particularly those who are also incest victims. In fact, it's a personal passion of mine for obvious reasons & one to which I give everything I can. Many of them stay in touch for decades. We have a bond. MY experience w/those women shows me that the ones who aborted do not regret it. I know several who carried the babies. Some of them really regret it, especially the incest victims. Many of those babies were "seized" by the families, the same families that abused those girls to begin w/. I believed that would have been the case w/my family & it was another of the reasons I aborted.

U can admit u were wrong anytime now. We'll all respect u a bit more for it.

[conversationpc]

U said a lot, but u avoided Deb's question about what u would do. Interesting how u guys spout out a lot but always avoid the question. That speaks volumes to me. Red13 can't answer my questions either.

The hell I can't. I DID.

I'm pro life, period across the board no matter what guilt trip scenarios you lay out.

The 22+ page thread where Matthew handed Susie her ass on many occasions is proof that she CAN'T recognize when someone has answered her questions/assertions.

[garysings]

I thought this was about why SP is not coming back. I click on this thread and its all about abortion. WTF. Can we get some mods her plz.

[ArnelRox]

U said a lot, but u avoided Deb's question about what u would do. Interesting how u guys spout out a lot but always avoid the question. That speaks volumes to me. Red13 can't answer my questions either.

The hell I can't. I DID.

I'm pro life, period across the board no matter what guilt trip scenarios you lay out.

The 22+ page thread where Matthew handed Susie her ass on many occasions is proof that she CAN'T recognize when someone has answered her questions/assertions.

Fuck u Dave & the horse u rode in on. He did NOT answer my question. I gave him specific scenarios. He chose to ignore them & stated that a person is either prolife or not. U know why he chose to ignore the questions? Same reason Socrates ignored Deb's question. Figure that one out.

[conversationpc]

No apology. I was talking about ur statement AFTER that. The one about the testimonials u have heard.

I have worked w/MANY rape victims, particularly those who are also incest victims. In fact, it's a personal passion of mine for obvious reasons & one to which I give everything I can. Many of them stay in touch for decades. We have a bond. MY experience w/those women shows me that the ones who aborted do not regret it. I know several who carried the babies. Some of them really regret it, especially the incest victims. Many of those babies were "seized" by the families, the same families that abused those girls to begin w/. I believed that would have been the case w/my family & it was another of the reasons I aborted.

U can admit u were wrong anytime now. We'll all respect u a bit more for it.

Show me where I said ALL rape victims who have had an abortion now regret it. Please? I am waiting with baited breath.

[Red13JoePa]

Fuck u Dave & the horse u rode in on. He did NOT answer my question. I gave him specific scenarios.

Don't you understand? It's all 1 scenario to me.

Murdering a baby's a no no.

[conversationpc]

Fuck u Dave & the horse u rode in on. He did NOT answer my question. I gave him specific scenarios. He chose to ignore them & stated that a person is either prolife or not. U know why he chose to ignore the questions? Same reason Socrates ignored Deb's question. Figure that one out.

I don't believe in bestiality.

[Socratic Methodist]

U said a lot, but u avoided Deb's question about what u would do. Interesting how u guys spout out a lot but always avoid the question. That speaks volumes to me. Red13 can't answer my questions either.

The hell I can't. I DID.

I'm pro life, period across the board no matter what guilt trip scenarios you lay out.

The 22+ page thread where Matthew handed Susie her ass on many occasions is proof that she CAN'T recognize when someone has answered her questions/assertions.

Fuck u Dave & the horse u rode in on. He did NOT answer my question. I gave him specific scenarios. He chose to ignore them & stated that a person is either prolife or not. U know why he chose to ignore the questions? Same reason Socrates ignored Deb's question. Figure that one out.

Funny, I WOULD answer her question if she actually had a post in this thread.....I can't find a post by her, let alone a question.....

[Deb]

U said a lot, but u avoided Deb's question about what u would do. Interesting how u guys spout out a lot but always avoid the question. That speaks volumes to me. Red13 can't answer my questions either.

The hell I can't. I DID.

I'm pro life, period across the board no matter what guilt trip scenarios you lay out.

The 22+ page thread where Matthew handed Susie her ass on many occasions is proof that she CAN'T recognize when someone has answered her questions/assertions.

Fuck u Dave & the horse u rode in on. He did NOT answer my question. I gave him specific scenarios. He chose to ignore them & stated that a person is either prolife or not. U know why he chose to ignore the questions? Same reason Socrates ignored Deb's question. Figure that one out.

Funny, I WOULD answer her question if she actually had a post in this thread.....I can't find a post by her, let alone a question.....

LOL, I must have been deleting my post at the same time you were posting to it. So it still appears in your quote. On second thought, I had decided to delete it. This issue is way too sensitive and neither side of it is going to change the others beliefs, so it is rather pointless.

[ArnelRox]

Show me where I said ALL rape victims who have had an abortion now regret it. Please? I am waiting with baited breath.

Dave I am not going back thru pages to find where u talked about the testimonials. U do it.

[ArnelRox]

Funny, I WOULD answer her question if she actually had a post in this thread.....I can't find a post by her, let alone a question.....

Funny, u already answered it & didn't answer that question. Sheesh!

[ArnelRox]

Fuck u Dave & the horse u rode in on. He did NOT answer my question. I gave him specific scenarios.

Don't you understand? It's all 1 scenario to me.

Murdering a baby's a no no.

I understand. But that STILL doesn't answer ALL my questions. Don't u read?

Iif ur sister had an abortion as a result of becoming pregnant from rape, would u condemn her? Stop talking to her?

[Red13JoePa]

Show me where I said ALL rape victims who have had an abortion now regret it. Please? I am waiting with baited breath.

Dave I am not going back thru pages to find where u talked about the testimonials. U do it.

He DID say "most."

You blatantly changed it to "all."

That puts the burden on you.

[ArnelRox]

He DID say "most."

You blatantly changed it to "all."

That puts the burden on you.

He said "most" in one post. then I responded that not ALL rape victims regretted it & more did NOT regret it. He said:

I've heard testimonials from rape victims who did abort and said the exact opposite, so don't give me that crap.

Which implies that ALL rape victims he has ever met regretted it & what I said was crap.

There does that meet my burden Mr. Meddler Joe?

[Socratic Methodist]

I'd like to chirp in on this topic.....

Me too!

Abortion, whether it is murder or not is irrelavent...

The core issue to 95% of the women abortion relates to is this: 'No one is going to tell me what to do'.

So abortion is reduced to NOT whether or not she is killing an innocent life, but to whether someone should tell them what to do concerning their body.

I find this comical coming from a guy. You've never been pregnant. You've never carried a baby to term. You have no idea. Easy for you to sit back and say what somebody else should do with their body and what's inside.

And abortion is 'birth control AFTER the fact'. Kinda sad, really. Let me be irresponsible, have sex....I'll just abort it when the time comes. great philosophy.

Hey, it takes 2 to tango. If you guys would wrap your weinies it wouldn't be an issue either.

The pro-choice camp will dodge the murder slant on every level, pushing, instead - the 'it is MY choice' mantra.

It is still murder, and it is wrong. If you don't want the child, have it then give it away. There are PLENTY of people who would give away their life savings to have a child.

I agree with you on your last sentence. I watched one of my best friend and her husband go thru the turmoil and stress of finally adopting.

So (reverse rolls here) are you telling me that if you were raped by big bad babba that you would carry the baby to term? Not because that was your choice but because somebody said you had to? I find that hard to believe.

Actually, I've been a psychologist at a group home for Adolescent girls and boys, ages 5-18, for close to 13 years now. I think I'm qualified to chirp in here.

As to your other question - I think it says more that it IS a choice, and is allowed by the law. And women STILL almost ALWAYS choose to abort. I think this says more about the issue than anything else.

Keeping a clean house isn't a law either. But having a filthy house gives you the stigma of being a filthy pig. Having a clean house is a choice, and most people have clean houses(funny, they don't HAVE to keep a clean house, but they do - nonetheless.).....So, in one choice instance, people choose the correct way. And in the other, pick the EASY way.....


And on the same note....

Abortion is legal, but euthanasia isn't....now if that ain't a dumbfuck double-standard.

So the government can't tell you what to do with your body in one instance, but CAN in the other.....can you explain that?

U said a lot, but u avoided Deb's question about what u would do. Interesting how u guys spout out a lot but always avoid the question. That speaks volumes to me. Red13 can't answer my questions either.

Why should I answer the hilighted above? You find it hard to believe, and I didn't even answer it yet. lol

I think it is wrong, inherently. And I would if I was in that situation. Let me ask YOU a question, while we are on the topic of reverse rolls and such non-sensical counter-arguments.....

Most people are for the death penalty. Until they - themselves are on death row, or have a family member faced with death.

Killing is killing, no matter what circumstance it is under. I guess you follow a little thing we call 'Act Utilitarianism'. Look it up, be adventurous.

So my question is twofold. You are alive, aren't you glad your mother didn't have an abortion. Are you in favor of the death penalty, and if you are - would you still be if it were YOU or a family member on death row?

I'm pretty much a 'Rule Utilitarian'....

[conversationpc]

He DID say "most."

You blatantly changed it to "all."

That puts the burden on you.

He said "most" in one post. then I responded that not ALL rape victims regretted it & more did NOT regret it. He said:

I've heard testimonials from rape victims who did abort and said the exact opposite, so don't give me that crap.

Which implies that ALL rape victims he has ever met regretted it & what I said was crap.

There does that meet my burden Mr. Meddler Joe?

No, that does not meet the burden of proof. I never said ALL and never even said that all rape victims I've personally met felt that way. My saying that I've heard testimonials from rape victims in no way indicates I was changing my meaning to say that they all felt that way.

Good grief. It's really amazing the lengths you will go to in order to avoid admitting that you might be wrong. I used to think that Monker was like this but you take the cake AND eat it.

[ohsherrie]

How many crack babies, or other children who are physically or mentally damaged due to their parents' poverty or lifestyle, do you suppose get adopted?

Answer? Not enough but still lots. My daughter suffered because of her birthmother's alcoholism and will consider to suffer the effects of it for the rest of her life. Yet she was adopted and thousands like her are adopted. Friends of ours adopted an FAS baby. My wife and I fostered a newborn baby born addicted to several drugs. I am always amazed at how many parents are willing to adopt children with these problems.

Dave, you and your wife should be applauded for what you've done and I mean that sincerely. However, do you really think your experience within what seems to be an isolated, insulated, myopic world is representative of what's happening throughout this country?

I can assure you it's not, but I can't prove it to you so I guess I'll just let you go on believing that those 1,000 points of light are going to illuminate the problems in this country and cure them with their radiance.

[ArnelRox]

So my question is twofold. You are alive, aren't you glad your mother didn't have an abortion.

I'm not always sure I'm glad about that. I won't bore u w/the details. But u don't know everything about everyone.

Are you in favor of the death penalty, .

I'm not. Not based on "life" issues just that I don't think it does anything to enforce justice.

Let me ask u a question. If ur sister/wife/mother/daughter was raped & decided to abort, would u condemn her? Would u stop talking to her?

[ArnelRox]

He DID say "most."

You blatantly changed it to "all."

That puts the burden on you.

He said "most" in one post. then I responded that not ALL rape victims regretted it & more did NOT regret it. He said:

I've heard testimonials from rape victims who did abort and said the exact opposite, so don't give me that crap.

Which implies that ALL rape victims he has ever met regretted it & what I said was crap.

There does that meet my burden Mr. Meddler Joe?

No, that does not meet the burden of proof. I never said ALL and never even said that all rape victims I've personally met felt that way. My saying that I've heard testimonials from rape victims in no way indicates I was changing my meaning to say that they all felt that way.

Good grief. It's really amazing the lengths you will go to in order to avoid admitting that you might be wrong. I used to think that Monker was like this but you take the cake AND eat it.

NOW u say it didn't imply that. Then u decide to say I go to amazing lengths to avoid admitting I'm wrong. Say that to the mirror.

[Red13JoePa]

do you really think your experience within what seems to be an isolated, insulated, myopic world is representative of what's happening throughout this country?

No more than the life experiences of abortionists should affect the right to life.

[conversationpc]

NOW u say it didn't imply that. Then u decide to say I go to amazing lengths to avoid admitting I'm wrong. Say that to the mirror.

That makes no sense.

[ArnelRox]

NOW u say it didn't imply that. Then u decide to say I go to amazing lengths to avoid admitting I'm wrong. Say that to the mirror.

That makes no sense.

To u.

No surprise.

There's no point in arguing this w/u, Red, Raider & Socrates. U are like stubborn mules. U can't see any point of view but ur own EVER on ANY subject. What a way to live!