Styx "With the Great Tommy Shaw"

[Grotelul]

It made you laugh because it's embarrassing. All around it's embarrassing. The way Suzanne and the other gal kind of sashay behind Dennis is laughable. Also WHAT THE HELL is Dennis, one of the greatest keyboard players of all time, doing with another keyboard player in the band? Lame.

Not nearly as embarrasing as playing a 30 minute set in front of a puppet show and 2 other bands like the current joke of Styx is playing.

And if you want to look at embarrassing stage presence. Sit on Gowan's side at a STyx show. What a joke.

30 min? It's 50 min. and they are getting to play in front of thousands of people that would not normally hear them. It's called exposure. You are jealous Dennis does not have this opportunity. Instead he plays SeaWorld and does the Steve and Edie show. That is embarrassing.

[Rockwriter]

Dennis hasn't played a grand piano for years. When Styx reformed he was playing an electronic piano stuffed into the shell of a grand piano. In fact, I think he was doing this in the Kilroy years.

I could care less what kind of keyboard he uses as long as he's the one who's playing it.

The electric piano inside the shell of a grand piano started with RTP, I think. Before that, back in the old days he had often commented that the technology for electric pianos wasn't good enough, you could always tell it was fake. So they used to carry the real thing, which really is a drag. Listen to RTP, you can scarcely tell the difference between that and a true piano. The differences are very small, the sampling quality is so much better than it used to be.

As for the current setup, I would imagine he doesn't carry around the piano shell for exactly the same reason Gowan doesn't carry a full array of the keyboards he uses on the albums . . . space considerations, trucking considerations and so on. That's my guess. Plus Dennis doesn't "tour" per se, he does fly dates, so they may be renting a lot of stuff locally.


Sterling

[Rockwriter]

It made you laugh because it's embarrassing. All around it's embarrassing. The way Suzanne and the other gal kind of sashay behind Dennis is laughable. Also WHAT THE HELL is Dennis, one of the greatest keyboard players of all time, doing with another keyboard player in the band? Lame.

Not nearly as embarrasing as playing a 30 minute set in front of a puppet show and 2 other bands like the current joke of Styx is playing.

And if you want to look at embarrassing stage presence. Sit on Gowan's side at a STyx show. What a joke.

30 min? It's 50 min. and they are getting to play in front of thousands of people that would not normally hear them. It's called exposure. You are jealous Dennis does not have this opportunity. Instead he plays SeaWorld and does the Steve and Edie show. That is embarrassing.

I actually think Dennis could land whatever tour he wanted, IF that's what he wanted. But he really prefers to control his own schedule and obviously prefers fly dates to hard touring, and I suspect that's why we don't see him on big summer tours. Opening for another band and being slaved to their scheduling needs would never work for him.

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.


Sterling

[Ash]

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.

Sterling

Just curious (and I know you're not taking "sides") but how is that any more or less goofy than the spinning keyboard with Tommy and JY "Chasing" or the never-ending tale of JY Buying?

[styxfanNH]

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.

Sterling

Just curious (and I know you're not taking "sides") but how is that any more or less goofy than the spinning keyboard with Tommy and JY "Chasing" or the never-ending tale of JY Buying?

You forgot Tommy being the mayor of the city he is playig in...

[thebook]

Dennis hasn't played a grand piano for years. When Styx reformed he was playing an electronic piano stuffed into the shell of a grand piano. In fact, I think he was doing this in the Kilroy years.

I could care less what kind of keyboard he uses as long as he's the one who's playing it.

The electric piano inside the shell of a grand piano started with RTP, I think. Before that, back in the old days he had often commented that the technology for electric pianos wasn't good enough, you could always tell it was fake. So they used to carry the real thing, which really is a drag. Listen to RTP, you can scarcely tell the difference between that and a true piano. The differences are very small, the sampling quality is so much better than it used to be.

As for the current setup, I would imagine he doesn't carry around the piano shell for exactly the same reason Gowan doesn't carry a full array of the keyboards he uses on the albums . . . space considerations, trucking considerations and so on. That's my guess. Plus Dennis doesn't "tour" per se, he does fly dates, so they may be renting a lot of stuff locally.


Sterling

Had a piano or piano shell in Sterling Heights last week, didn't use it much though. He was mostly out in front with the mic.

[thebook]

Why must I need medication to consider "Dear John" one of Styx's signature songs. It is a song about the death of a member of the band that received significant airplay in the late 90s. There are some really mean people around here!

-Shane

Because Dear John is not one of Styx's signature songs, not even remotely close, and i suspect everybody on this forum could list 50 songs by Styx that are more signature than Dear John. I myself could probably list 100. Nothing wrong with the song, it's a good song. Not being mean, just trying to give you perspective of where everybody is coming from. bookout.

[Zan]

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.

Sterling

Just curious (and I know you're not taking "sides") but how is that any more or less goofy than the spinning keyboard with Tommy and JY "Chasing" or the never-ending tale of JY Buying?

I just wanna know if it was hard to choose between dancing, coordinated, and singers to put quotation marks around.

[Rockwriter]

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.

Sterling

Just curious (and I know you're not taking "sides") but how is that any more or less goofy than the spinning keyboard with Tommy and JY "Chasing" or the never-ending tale of JY Buying?

I just wanna know if it was hard to choose between dancing, coordinated, and singers to put quotation marks around.

LOL . . . actually, ONE of his backng vocalists is a very talented singer. The dancing, maybe not so much.


Sterling

[Rockwriter]

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.

Sterling

Just curious (and I know you're not taking "sides") but how is that any more or less goofy than the spinning keyboard with Tommy and JY "Chasing" or the never-ending tale of JY Buying?

Honestly, the Gowan spinning keyboard thing ALSO drives me nuts. There's no question - at least in my mind - that he's every bit as goofy as Dennis in his own special way. In some ways I think that's why he kinda fits in with Styx, though he took some getting used to. At least he's a corny guy, which he actually NEEDS to be to fit into Styx. Hey, I love Styx, I really do, but honest to God, Styx has always had a cornball side, ALWAYS. That's part of why I like it.


Sterling

[shaka]

Incidentally, I agree that his show could stand for less of the goofy coordinated "dancing" from the backing singers, but both times I've seen him he's been phenomenal. I DO wish they were just off to the side and not so visible a part of the show.

Sterling

Just curious (and I know you're not taking "sides") but how is that any more or less goofy than the spinning keyboard with Tommy and JY "Chasing" or the never-ending tale of JY Buying?

Honestly, the Gowan spinning keyboard thing ALSO drives me nuts. There's no question - at least in my mind - that he's every bit as goofy as Dennis in his own special way. In some ways I think that's why he kinda fits in with Styx, though he took some getting used to. At least he's a corny guy, which he actually NEEDS to be to fit into Styx. Hey, I love Styx, I really do, but honest to God, Styx has always had a cornball side, ALWAYS. That's part of why I like it.


Sterling

I agree, the spinning keyboard schtick is tired.

[Zan]

I just wanna know if it was hard to choose between dancing, coordinated, and singers to put quotation marks around.

LOL . . . actually, ONE of his backng vocalists is a very talented singer. The dancing, maybe not so much.

Emphasis on the plural form of the word, yes.

[StyxCollector]

Dennis hasn't played a grand piano for years. When Styx reformed he was playing an electronic piano stuffed into the shell of a grand piano. In fact, I think he was doing this in the Kilroy years.

I could care less what kind of keyboard he uses as long as he's the one who's playing it.

The electric piano inside the shell of a grand piano started with RTP, I think. Before that, back in the old days he had often commented that the technology for electric pianos wasn't good enough, you could always tell it was fake. So they used to carry the real thing, which really is a drag. Listen to RTP, you can scarcely tell the difference between that and a true piano. The differences are very small, the sampling quality is so much better than it used to be.

As for the current setup, I would imagine he doesn't carry around the piano shell for exactly the same reason Gowan doesn't carry a full array of the keyboards he uses on the albums . . . space considerations, trucking considerations and so on. That's my guess. Plus Dennis doesn't "tour" per se, he does fly dates, so they may be renting a lot of stuff locally.


Sterling

Since I did the interview with DDY for Keyboard magazine and the RTP tour, I can confirm that Sterling is correct. That's when the shell was first used. Just look up the article - it's online somewhere.

However, when I saw him at the Rosemont for that first orchestral show, the white piano was restored and it was no longer a shell.

I've seen DDY quite often and other than a Rosemont show, he's always used something else on stage. The RTP tour is one of the last he attempted to even look like he was using a piano. Now he just uses a Motif (he *is* a Yamaha endorser). The Oberheim stays at home now, too.

[bugsymalone]

Since I did the interview with DDY for Keyboard magazine and the RTP tour, I can confirm that Sterling is correct. That's when the shell was first used. Just look up the article - it's online somewhere.

That's funny, because I just re-read that interview yesterday in my CK magazine. It was a really terrific interview, Allan, when you guys didn't get me lost in a sea of tech talk.

One thing I noted, and it was a good question and got a telling answer, was what he ranked in importance. No. 1 was singing -- the voice. This has always been Dennis' emphasis and still is today. His keyboard work was ranked third.

Honestly, the Gowan spinning keyboard thing ALSO drives me nuts.

I agree, the spinning keyboard schtick is tired.

All I will say to that is when you hire a performing monkey, you get a performing monkey.



Bugsy

[stabbim]

Honestly, the Gowan spinning keyboard thing ALSO drives me nuts.

I agree, the spinning keyboard schtick is tired.

The spinning keyboard has never struck me as a gimmick, per se. It's just another piece of gear that he uses to do his job of entertaining an audience, by providing a little more mobility and variety to his stage presence. It strikes me as an odd thing to criticize, akin to complaining about guitarists who wear wireless packs (why can't they just stand by their amps and not subject us all to this running-around-the-stage "schtick?")

[StyxCollector]

I just find the whole "DDY is an old fart cornball" comments funny. He's been doing that schtick for years - even with Styx. The RTP tour is an excellent example. Now it's bad because he isn't there anymore? Come on.

Look, I know it's not everyone's favorite thing. I can even see where people don't like it. But that cornball aspect is a part of Styx. Anyone remember Gowan whipping out the Tazmanian Devil Poloroid? Jumping off of the keyboard? Same stuff, different approach, different person.

Current Styx isn't as dissimilar as people would like to think they are.

[MtlLady]

I just find the whole "DDY is an old fart cornball" comments funny. He's been doing that schtick for years - even with Styx. The RTP tour is an excellent example. Now it's bad because he isn't there anymore? Come on.

Look, I know it's not everyone's favorite thing. I can even see where people don't like it. But that cornball aspect is a part of Styx. Anyone remember Gowan whipping out the Tazmanian Devil Poloroid? Jumping off of the keyboard? Same stuff, different approach, different person.

Current Styx isn't as dissimilar as people would like to think they are.

*Remember* the Poloroid? He still had it three weeks ago in Montreal. And he still jumps off the keyboard - the mom in me keeps thinking he's going to break his ankle one of these days ....

[Zan]

Honestly, the Gowan spinning keyboard thing ALSO drives me nuts.

I agree, the spinning keyboard schtick is tired.

The spinning keyboard has never struck me as a gimmick, per se. It's just another piece of gear that he uses to do his job of entertaining an audience, by providing a little more mobility and variety to his stage presence. It strikes me as an odd thing to criticize, akin to complaining about guitarists who wear wireless packs (why can't they just stand by their amps and not subject us all to this running-around-the-stage "schtick?")

I've always felt the same way, and I too never understood the heavy criticism over it. Well, aside from the fact that he's not Dennis, and anything he does that's "different" will get lambasted no matter what, but that's an obvious one.

I think it's great that a keyboard player is interested in having more of a stage presence and wants more mobility. Billy Joel has a spinning keyboard too! I laughed hysterically when I saw him 2 years ago. Paul said to me, I bet your Styx friends would hate this show. haha

Amanda, Lawrence is jumping off the keyboard again? He stopped for quite some time after his knee surgery. I guess he's all heeled up now. Cool beans. Funny enough, the "mother in me" is only present at a Styx show if I take my daughter. I try to leave the mother in me at home whenever possible.

And I *love* the Poleroid! It's a great "additional" thing to toss out to the audience that makes people happy. I've always thought it was a cool idea.

[MtlLady]

I've always felt the same way, and I too never understood the heavy criticism over it. Well, aside from the fact that he's not Dennis, and anything he does that's "different" will get lambasted no matter what, but that's an obvious one.

I think it's great that a keyboard player is interested in having more of a stage presence and wants more mobility. Billy Joel has a spinning keyboard too! I laughed hysterically when I saw him 2 years ago. Paul said to me, I bet your Styx friends would hate this show. haha

Amanda, Lawrence is jumping off the keyboard again? He stopped for quite some time after his knee surgery. I guess he's all heeled up now. Cool beans. Funny enough, the "mother in me" is only present at a Styx show if I take my daughter. I try to leave the mother in me at home whenever possible.

And I *love* the Poleroid! It's a great "additional" thing to toss out to the audience that makes people happy. I've always thought it was a cool idea.

I noticed him jumping off at least once in Montreal. He was pretty well all over the place. And yes I know, I've really got to work on that mother hen thing ...

I kind of find the Poloroid thing funny, especially when he gets JY during "Miss America" (I think it's Miss America or was it Midnight Ride ...) Anyway, it got a laugh out of me!

[brywool]

It made you laugh because it's embarrassing. All around it's embarrassing. The way Suzanne and the other gal kind of sashay behind Dennis is laughable. Also WHAT THE HELL is Dennis, one of the greatest keyboard players of all time, doing with another keyboard player in the band? Lame.

You can't sing the songs, play the songs, and wander around the stage with a piano strapped to your back. If he wants keyboards in his songs then he needs someone to play them while he sings them. Billy Joel uses a second keyboardist and has for years. Elton on the other hand, locks himself behind his piano and plays from there.

I'd rather DeYoung didn't wander around. He used to look good doing it (1978 and before). Something happened to him around Paradise Theatre where his showmanship went out the window. I'd rather see him at a GRAND piano- NOT some crappy keyboard piano, keyboards, and an organ.

I am serious when I ask this question...how is him not having a grand piano and using a keyboard any different than Gowan...other than you prefer Gowan's stage presence better? Not getting into who is better or worse, merely commenting that the statement as I read it lacks merit.

Good question and Gowan doesn't bother me with his keys. Dennis' don't sound as authentic to me. Maybe it's just the gear they're using that's the difference. Yeah, I know he's had a keyboard dropped into the grand shell (that's a Grand Illusion), but his music is a lot more non-rock and to me, it would just look better for him and give him a bit more stature live. It also drives me nuts that he still plays the same solo before Lady. Come on Dennis, challenge yourself more and blow me away. Gowan's solo TOTALLY blows me away. It's amazing and he doesn't always do the same one.

As a showman, Dennis used to be among the best, but now, the stuff he does just doesn't look right with his present image. He just looks too old and the things he does (air guitar, etc.) just look silly on him.
Gowan, on the other hand- when I first saw him, he bugged me. He's changed a bit of his... 'moves' and now I think he's a killer ROCK showman. There's only so much you can do with a keyboard and he does it all and more. I think that he really kicks Styx in the ass and makes the shows a lot more entertaining. The spinny keyboard thing is very cool and original to me as is just his general manner. It's more ROCK and not so "cruise ship" as Dennis is now. Dennis, I'm sorry, but he just looks old and tired. Gowan has a TON of energy and puts it all into his performance.

I remember when I first saw him in 77 and before they played "Born for Adventure" (a song Dennis should be playing now if he isn't) he came out in this like Muskateer hat and sword. It was corny, but it worked for him then. Then there was the thing he did with the lights where he'd point at a light it'd go off, he'd point at another, it'd go off and he'd do it faster and faster so there was this kind of strobe effect. Back then, that looked very cool. Now, he just doesn't look that into it and kind of stands there doing these really lame moves. NO Energy.

Somewhere along the time of Kilroy, he just got very UN hip looking and those things just didn't fit him. When I see him on Return to Paradise with his dumb white socks and the way he moves, I can't stand to watch him. He's so stiff and out of step with the rest of Styx. Styx comes across as a YOUNG band. It has nothing to do with liking Shaw over Dennis, or whatever, it's just the image that the current band has. They look a lot more youthful than Dennis does and as a rock consumer, I appreciate that.

[styxfanNH]

Dennis' keyboard I believe has built in sounds. Larry is using a rack of sounds and a sequencer to get the effects he is using. So for Larry, you are likely hearing a layered sound, not just one.

Sampling technology is tons better than it was 20 years ago when sampling became affordable.

I personally have no problem with Larry using the spinning keyboard, it isn't like he sits there and uses it like a sit n spin. I do remember during the 96 tour, and part of it was the technology back then, that Dennis often got locked behind his stack of keyboards. The only way a keyboardist use to be able to get out in front of the crowd was to use a Roland Axis that let them bring a 4 octave keyboard around with a huge chord.

I would say that Dennis show is a much more laid back set than today's Styx is putting on, but that is because of the song selection. Not because Dennis is old. Dennis really seems happy with his show. He seems much more comfortable up there by himself than he did three or four years ago when I saw him.

And Dennis has always done the air guitar thing. It's not new. It's something he always did when he, Tommy and JY moved to the center of the stage.

[brywool]

I would say that Dennis show is a much more laid back set than today's Styx is putting on

To me, that's like going to see a James Taylor show... whoopee. Dennis was is from a ROCK band and that's the Dennis I always dug. Sorry, just is.

And Dennis has always done the air guitar thing. It's not new. It's something he always did when he, Tommy and JY moved to the center of the stage.

Right, but when he was younger, it looked better on him. I don't wanna just rag on the guy because he's old (though I do tend to do that-sorry) but geez, Paul McCartney is older than Dennis and he's got so much more energy than Dennis does and he just rocks live. Maybe if DeYoung had that kind of set budget, etc. it'd be different.
I think that Sea World clip just really gave me the willies and I hope that he's progressed beyond that type of deal because it just seemed low budget and loungy and Styx just kicks ass everytime I've seen them. TONS of energy.

[kipthekid]

New Styx definitely puts 110% into every show - at least every show I've seen.

Dennis? One thing he brings that New Styx doesn't have is his voice. The Seaworld video notwithstanding, even the most cynical critics have been marveling at how strong and powerful Dennis' voice still is at his age. Energy? The shows I've seen have been far more energetic than that video. Also, Dennis' "Rock Band" can EASILY keep up with New Styx technically. Vocally, I do admit to missing Tommy and JY on vocals...but not nearly as much as I miss Dennis when LG sings lead.

You talk about lounge acts - LG's thin, whispy voice screams "Holiday Inn!"

[StyxCollector]

If you've never seen Dennis' live show other than that Sea World clip, I can see where you may have that impression. His shows - especially when there is a second guitarist onstage - is good. DDY doesn't stand still and just sing.

The orchestral shows are a tad more staid, but there are like 100 more players on the stage

[StyxCollector]

Dennis' keyboard I believe has built in sounds. Larry is using a rack of sounds and a sequencer to get the effects he is using. So for Larry, you are likely hearing a layered sound, not just one.

Sampling technology is tons better than it was 20 years ago when sampling became affordable.

LG's controller is a Roland RD600. It's clear he's using samples or some other rackmount gear to help get his sounds.

Unfortunately, other than that first keyboard player who played with DDY at the Rye show, I don't feel anyone else has nailed the sounds. DDY doesn't trot out the OBerheim anymore. The Yamaha Motif (ES8 I think) he uses isn't bad, but the sounds could use some tweaking. John (DDY's keyboard player) does an OK job, but I feel some of his sounds could be better since that's what his job is. They get the job done, but he seems to struggle at times with the sounds.

Then again, I think the exact sound isn't what DDY is necessarily going for, either. Just close. As a performer myself, I get that - you need to serve the song and if it's close, it should be good enough for most. See Geddy Lee for a good example of that - I used better sounds in the Rush triubte band I was in than he did sometimes.

It's the fans who care more than the artists.

[sadie65]

I would say that Dennis show is a much more laid back set than today's Styx is putting on

To me, that's like going to see a James Taylor show... whoopee. Dennis was is from a ROCK band and that's the Dennis I always dug. Sorry, just is.

And Dennis has always done the air guitar thing. It's not new. It's something he always did when he, Tommy and JY moved to the center of the stage.

Right, but when he was younger, it looked better on him. I don't wanna just rag on the guy because he's old (though I do tend to do that-sorry) but geez, Paul McCartney is older than Dennis and he's got so much more energy than Dennis does and he just rocks live. Maybe if DeYoung had that kind of set budget, etc. it'd be different.
I think that Sea World clip just really gave me the willies and I hope that he's progressed beyond that type of deal because it just seemed low budget and loungy and Styx just kicks ass everytime I've seen them. TONS of energy.

And see for me, while I heartily respect your opinion, I disagree. The band looks like a caricature of itself. For me the arm pinwheels are just as old and out of place with the band and its age right now. The 3 times I've seen them, they look tired and like they are going through the motions.

Having said that, I will also add that who of us hasn't done that in our jobs on occasion.

To each his own.

[StyxCollector]

And see for me, while I heartily respect your opinion, I disagree. The band looks like a caricature of itself. For me the arm pinwheels are just as old and out of place with the band and its age right now. The 3 times I've seen them, they look tired and like they are going through the motions.

Having said that, I will also add that who of us hasn't done that in our jobs on occasion.

To each his own.

Well, I've seen Styx and I would say that their shows are more varied when it comes to quality/energy. DDY tends to be more consistent across the board in my experience, but rarely have I seen Styx post-1999 put on a show that wasn't good.

Now, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be critical - for example, the set list. It can be a good show, but still boring. That's how I felt at the Lowell, MA, show a few years ago which was just after Ricky had joined the band. Other than the medley, it was the same show I had basically seen since 1991 sans DDY tunes. There just wasn't enough variety and pacing to keep me interested.

[stmonkeys]

for those who are keeping score:

last night, there was no "dancing", but plenty of rocking

tommy was "govenor" of PA

larry didn't leap off the keyboard at the end of CSA, but did hand out polaroids

the crowd, however, was on their feet from the moment styx hit the stage to the moment they left. a big turn out of lep-heads (is that what they're called?), but i did see some styx shirts. the venue was about 2/3 full. my guess was there were prob 12-15 k in attendance. Very up beat, excited crowd. we were glad styx went on first, because i had my 7 year old daughter with me for her first show. we left after styx.

the set was short, but rocked. they played BCM, GI, TMTOMH, Miss America, FY, CSA, renegade (not necessarily in that order) i was hoping to hear everything all the time. bummed that they didn't play it.

my husband and 4 year old son perfected the way of sneaking into a concert and scoring 9th row center seats. bastards.