It's official DDY more successful that current Styx

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It's official DDY more successful that current Styx

Postby rajah2165 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:59 pm

One has a #1 single and on an upward trajectory.

The other is an opening act on a downward trajectory.

One has a new album out of great well written tunes.

The other did a lackluster album of covers and yet ANOTHER live album

One is headlining (albeit in smaller venues) and playing a 2 hour show

The other plays 6 songs with the lights on as a warm up band.
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Postby Jodes » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:28 am

A number one Song in ONE PROVINCE in Canada.. (Not Across the Country).. Dennis can't draw more then 1500-2000 people anywhere else outside of Quebec!

Yes I will agree somewhat, but Styx has been on a downward Trajectory since 1997..

Six well written tunes and 4 klunkers..

People seem to forget that Dennis did a covers album.. nobody's slamming him for it..

Outside of this tour, Styx is doing headlining dates and doing 2 hour shows, and are making a lot of new fans playing 7-10 songs those nights that they are playing with Def Leppard..

And outside of the say 12 of us on this board, NOBODY CARES!
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Postby styxfanNH » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:12 am

Quebec is Canada, Jodes. Didn't you know that. Wait for the stadium tour this fall....
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Postby bugsymalone » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:47 am

styxfanNH wrote:Quebec is Canada, Jodes. Didn't you know that. Wait for the stadium tour this fall....


Nope, NH, Quebec is Illinois! :D :D :D



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Postby styxfanNH » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:31 am

bugsymalone wrote:
styxfanNH wrote:Quebec is Canada, Jodes. Didn't you know that. Wait for the stadium tour this fall....


Nope, NH, Quebec is Illinois! :D :D :D



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I forgot :wink:
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Postby froy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:38 am

Jodes wrote:A number one Song in ONE PROVINCE in Canada.. (Not Across the Country).


Did Styx have the same in quebec?



. Dennis can't draw more then 1500-2000 people anywhere else outside of Quebec!


I think he sold out 6 shows in Montreal correct?



Yes I will agree somewhat, but Styx has been on a downward Trajectory since 1997..


No such thing as somewhat,



Six well written tunes and 4 klunkers..


10 great songs and more to come

People seem to forget that Dennis did a covers album.. nobody's slamming him for it..


He did not do 2 of them like Shaw and that was 20 years ago
Not under the Styx banner.

Styx is doing headlining dates and doing 2 hour shows,


Yea right
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:46 am

froy wrote:
I think he sold out 6 shows in Montreal correct?






Wrong. He sold out when he pushed BABE on the band.
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Postby Higgy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:51 am

brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
I think he sold out 6 shows in Montreal correct?






Wrong. He sold out when he pushed BABE on the band.


Yeah because songs like "Superstars", "She Cares", and "Never Say Never" rock SO MUCH HARDER! Why doesn't Tommy get all the shit for ballads that Dennis gets? At least DDY'S ballads are GOOD.
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Postby froy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:01 am

brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
I think he sold out 6 shows in Montreal correct?






Wrong. He sold out when he pushed BABE on the band.


And Shaw sold out with She Cares which is is total piece of shit,
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:07 am

You're knocking "Superstars"????
Now I've heard it all...

"She Cares" and "Never Say Never" are not ballads at all. They also aren't big rock tunes. They're Tommy's "in-between acoustic-stuff", like "Fooling Yourself", though nowhere as good. "She Cares" is pretty much a throwaway, especially lyrically. "Never Say Never" has some good bits in it (the bridge), but as an entire song, it's just okay.

They're STILL better than "First Time" or "Babe".

Dennis writes some great slow songs ("Pieces of 8", "Goodbye to Roseland"), but "First Time" is not one of them. It's an absolutely horrible tune without one redeeming quality. "Babe" is decent ... on an Andy Gibb album. Styx was a killer ROCK band and once "Babe" came out, that was all over.

Next you'll be telling me how "Hip Hop Hipocracy" should've sold more than "Stairway to Heaven".
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Re: It's official DDY more successful that current Styx

Postby Everett » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:10 am

rajah2165 wrote:One has a #1 single and on an upward trajectory.

The other is an opening act on a downward trajectory.

One has a new album out of great well written tunes.

The other did a lackluster album of covers and yet ANOTHER live album

One is headlining (albeit in smaller venues) and playing a 2 hour show

The other plays 6 songs with the lights on as a warm up band.


He's a god in canada as our styx so of course he's going to do very well there. I'll wait and see on how he does here in the good old us of a. I personally won't buy this album as I am not a fan of solo stuff but I'll listen to it for free via napster or rhapsody.
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Postby stabbim » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:24 am

brywool wrote:You're knocking "Superstars"????
Now I've heard it all...


*raises hand*

I really dislike "Superstars" myself, but I don't think this person was knocking it, as such. Just pointing out that it's not so much a "rocker." Which is more or less true, but when comparing it to "Babe" ....eh, context is everything, I suppose.
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Re: It's official DDY more successful that current Styx

Postby gr8dane » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:39 am

rajah2165 wrote:One has a #1 single and on an upward trajectory.

The other is an opening act on a downward trajectory.

One has a new album out of great well written tunes.

The other did a lackluster album of covers and yet ANOTHER live album

One is headlining (albeit in smaller venues) and playing a 2 hour show

The other plays 6 songs with the lights on as a warm up band.


OK ,it's official.
And then what?
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Postby Higgy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:47 am

I think its a bit fashionable to hate "Babe" in hindsight. I think its also a bit of "Tommy says I should hate it so I DO hate it" among hardcore Tommy fans. However, Babe was a really good song that a helluva lot of people really like. I always wonder what the big objection to it is. Not experimental and too poppy? This was Styx, a pop rock band (hardly Radiohead). Too ballady? Styx did other ballads (some of them not even written by DDY). Too sappy? And She Cares wasn't? How about some of the TS solo things like Little Girl World or Lonely School? I'm not knocking any of these songs but I think people just like to backlash "Babe" because it was a #1 hit and Tommy hates it.
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Postby stabbim » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:06 am

Higgy wrote:I think its a bit fashionable to hate "Babe" in hindsight.


I became a Styx fan in the late 80's, so as far as the classic era goes, hindsight is all I have...and I don't hate "Babe." I think it's really well-done for what it is. It's just symptomatic of a general shift in the Styx sound that I don't care for as much as what they were doing in the mid-70s.
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:10 am

Not fashionable. When it came out, I hated it. Still do. That should say, I hate it as a Styx song. It's a well written song, but not what I want to hear from the brain and voice that gave me Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, etc.
As a STYX song, it's weak.

I could give a crap WHAT Tommy says. I like what I like and I don't like Babe. For the record, I thought the updated Blue Collar Man was garbage. Terrible. The guy wailing in the back with lyrics that had NOTHING to do with the song was a pointless exercise. Having said that, I thought BBT had some great moments, mostly Gowan's. I've said this before.

Cyclo was a brilliant album in my opinion that eclipsed everything after Pieces of 8. I loved that album.

Dennis wrote some amazing songs at one time. Just not much has been great since Paradise Theatre to me. He totally changed his style. He used to write great political statements, now he writes like he's watching a Bogey flick. Boring.
When's the last time Dennis wrote a good ROCK song? I'd say that was Rockin' the Paradise or maybe Boomchild. The rest of his stuff has all been boring to me. Let's see Dennis do something as cool as "One with Everything" or even "Everything All the Time". NOTHING he's doing is interesting to me. As soon as he does something good, I'll be the first one to say it. I Promise. I haven't heard his new album because it's not available here. You guys yelling about how great Dennis is in Canada- shit, he can't even get a record released in the US. Come on. I think Styx has got him beat there.

If Dennis would do something amazing and not so typically "Dennis post 78", I'd like him more than I do. That last great song he did to me was "Goodbye to Roseland". GREAT song and GASP! It's a ballad. But it's great. The rest of his stuff on BNW was terrible for a writer of his stature. His stuff on EOTC wasn't great or memorable. Glen had all the good cuts on that record, hands down. Kilroy?? "Don't Let It End" was okay. The rest was over indulgance. None of the tracks on that album are very focused including Shaws, though "Longest Night" is a good one.
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Postby froy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:12 am

brywool wrote:Not fashionable. When it came out, I hated it. Still do. That should say, I hate it as a Styx song. It's a well written song, but not what I want to hear from the brain and voice that gave me Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, etc.
As a STYX song, it's weak.


And it was a number 1 go figure
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Postby Món » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:24 am

Two questions here:

1.- Where has DDY gone with his new stuff besides Canada? 'Cause as far as I know, Styx is far more remembered than him as a solo artist in the rest of the world....

2.- Isn't it weird that DDY is making it this big (apparently from what I read here) in Canada nowadays, being that the current Styx singer is a "canadian rock icon" as well? :)
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:32 am

froy wrote:
brywool wrote:Not fashionable. When it came out, I hated it. Still do. That should say, I hate it as a Styx song. It's a well written song, but not what I want to hear from the brain and voice that gave me Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, etc.
As a STYX song, it's weak.


And it was a number 1 go figure


Again I'll say this...
"Oh Mickey You're So Fine" was also number 1. Was it a great song? NO.

Number 1 doesn't necessarily translate to "Good song".

"Come Sail Away" wasn't a number one song and that song BLOWS AWAY "Babe". How do you rationalize that Froy?
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Postby gr8dane » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:38 am

brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
brywool wrote:Not fashionable. When it came out, I hated it. Still do. That should say, I hate it as a Styx song. It's a well written song, but not what I want to hear from the brain and voice that gave me Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, etc.
As a STYX song, it's weak.


And it was a number 1 go figure


Again I'll say this...
"Oh Mickey You're So Fine" was also number 1. Was it a great song? NO.

Number 1 doesn't necessarily translate to "Good song".

"Come Sail Away" wasn't a number one song and that song BLOWS AWAY "Babe". How do you rationalize that Froy?


He must mean it is favorite Styx song because of it was #1.His second favorite Styx song is the one with the second highest chart spot.
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Postby Higgy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:48 am

Món wrote:Two questions here:

1.- Where has DDY gone with his new stuff besides Canada? 'Cause as far as I know, Styx is far more remembered than him as a solo artist in the rest of the world....

2.- Isn't it weird that DDY is making it this big (apparently from what I read here) in Canada nowadays, being that the current Styx singer is a "canadian rock icon" as well? :)


The album has only been released in Canada. It has been extremely well received so it bodes well for a US release. As for Styx being far more remembered - no shit. Of course, the songs they are remembered for are the songs he wrote and the concepts he came up with and the albums he produced, etc. etc. etc - hey, one of those remembered songs was Babe! Maybe thats why when he tours - he can sing only his songs and people leave feeling like they have seen a Styx show while new Styx has to have someone else sing a bunch of songs Dennis wrote and people still leave feeling cheated.
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Postby MtlLady » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:08 am

bugsymalone wrote:
styxfanNH wrote:Quebec is Canada, Jodes. Didn't you know that. Wait for the stadium tour this fall....


Nope, NH, Quebec is Illinois! :D :D :D

Bugsy



LOL! Darn, and I flew all that way south in July for nothing. And to think that all I had to do is stay in the province ....
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Postby stabbim » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:33 am

Higgy wrote:Maybe thats why when he tours - he can sing only his songs and people leave feeling like they have seen a Styx show while new Styx has to have someone else sing a bunch of songs Dennis wrote and people still leave feeling cheated.


I'm sure the DDY show is good and all, but anyone leaving it feeling that they have seen a Styx show has a pretty skewed notion of what "Styx" was/is.
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:38 am

gr8dane wrote:
brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
brywool wrote:Not fashionable. When it came out, I hated it. Still do. That should say, I hate it as a Styx song. It's a well written song, but not what I want to hear from the brain and voice that gave me Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, etc.
As a STYX song, it's weak.


And it was a number 1 go figure


Again I'll say this...
"Oh Mickey You're So Fine" was also number 1. Was it a great song? NO.

Number 1 doesn't necessarily translate to "Good song".

"Come Sail Away" wasn't a number one song and that song BLOWS AWAY "Babe". How do you rationalize that Froy?


He must mean it is favorite Styx song because of it was #1.His second favorite Styx song is the one with the second highest chart spot.


Well, yeah, that's kind of how I translate it, which doesn't make sense.
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Postby Higgy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:41 am

stabbim wrote:
Higgy wrote:Maybe thats why when he tours - he can sing only his songs and people leave feeling like they have seen a Styx show while new Styx has to have someone else sing a bunch of songs Dennis wrote and people still leave feeling cheated.


I'm sure the DDY show is good and all, but anyone leaving it feeling that they have seen a Styx show has a pretty skewed notion of what "Styx" was/is.


You're right - seeing Dennis Deyoung sing Grand Illusion, Come Sail Away, Lady, Mr Roboto, Rockin the Paradise, Lorelei, Best Of Times, and all the others doesn't make me think "Styx show" at all!

Oh, I forgot - Styx was all about Blue Collar Man!
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Postby froy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:44 am

brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
brywool wrote:Not fashionable. When it came out, I hated it. Still do. That should say, I hate it as a Styx song. It's a well written song, but not what I want to hear from the brain and voice that gave me Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, etc.
As a STYX song, it's weak.


And it was a number 1 go figure


Again I'll say this...
"Oh Mickey You're So Fine" was also number 1. Was it a great song? NO.

Number 1 doesn't necessarily translate to "Good song".

"Come Sail Away" wasn't a number one song and that song BLOWS AWAY "Babe". How do you rationalize that Froy?


Im not saying it was number 1 with me
Im saying number 1 got them huge exposure
No other song did that except Roboto.
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:59 am

Higgy wrote:
Món wrote:Two questions here:

1.- Where has DDY gone with his new stuff besides Canada? 'Cause as far as I know, Styx is far more remembered than him as a solo artist in the rest of the world....

2.- Isn't it weird that DDY is making it this big (apparently from what I read here) in Canada nowadays, being that the current Styx singer is a "canadian rock icon" as well? :)


The album has only been released in Canada. It has been extremely well received so it bodes well for a US release. As for Styx being far more remembered - no shit. Of course, the songs they are remembered for are the songs he wrote and the concepts he came up with and the albums he produced, etc. etc. etc - hey, one of those remembered songs was Babe! Maybe thats why when he tours - he can sing only his songs and people leave feeling like they have seen a Styx show while new Styx has to have someone else sing a bunch of songs Dennis wrote and people still leave feeling cheated.


The songs they are most remembered for are NOT necessarily ALL DeYoungs. It's THEIR SONGS as a collective. Granted, Dennis penned a lot of songs. If you were speaking up till Paradise Theatre with the odd song after that point thrown in, you'd have a point. The fact is, Dennis's song quality since PT has been suspect. And as proof, here's a 2005 setlist:

1. The Grand Illusion
2. Lady
3. Desert Moon
4. Lorelei
5. Pieces of Eight
6. Show Me the Way
7. Don't Let it End
8. Light Up
9. Castle Walls
10. Hello God
11. Rockin' the Paradise
12. Mr. Roboto
13. Suite Madame Blue
14. Babe
15. Best of Times

Encore:
16. Come Sail Away

MOST of the songs date from Paradise Theatre and before that. Had Dennis not gone ballad-heavy, there'd still be a fully intact Styx (and yes, I would imagine that John might even be around because the band would never have fractured- could be wrong). Sorry, couldn't find a more recent list.
After PT, Dennis's writing became increasingly syrup-heavy and dull.

If his are the only ones remembered, why has "Renegade" been their standard encore forever? Shouldn't it have been "Babe?". The fact is, the entire band (Jy too) contributed to what made Styx what they are. Dennis is what made Styx be watered down.

I think up until Paradise Theatre, Dennis's stuff was great. Had he not gone so wussy after that album, I'd probably give Babe (not First Time) a bit more slack. But the fact is, he dove headlong into the Robert Gullet pool and has yet to emerge the rock guy that he was.

Also, regarding Kilroy, I LOVED the concept of that album. I thought that generally, that idea was pretty cool. The pre-concert film was also cool and fun. What I didn't dig was that with that album, Styx nearly became a novelty act AND it broke them up. I'll never forget waiting for the premiere of their new tune on Mtv. When it was Mr. Roboto and they're dancing around in robot suits (probably not even them), I thought "What in the hell is this? Where's the guitar? Where's the POINT? Mr. Roboto? Who the f*ck knows what that is??".

The fact is, it baffled record buyers. If you didn't know the concept, you were lost and so the album didn't do as well as the others had. It also was a VERY cheesy sounding record. "High Time" with those wimpy harmonies is just SO white. It's like listening to The Brady Six. THIS IS STYX?? There was no balls to that track or the album. Little kids shrieking after "Heavy Metal Poisoning"?? Seriously, how many of us could put that album on in a room of friends today and not have people walk out of the room? Not so "The Grand Illusion", "Eotc", or even "Styx II". KWH is a time capsule that's incredibly dated and corny. Just as DeYoung himself is. At least Styx (with Cyclo) tried to update their sound and I think they did it quite successfully. It's a pity that they took that momentum and did a covers album afterwards.
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:02 am

froy wrote:
Im not saying it was number 1 with me
Im saying number 1 got them huge exposure
No other song did that except Roboto.


Roboto got them more exposure when it was in a car ad than when it originally came out. I remember in 83 when it came out. Styx became UNCOOL in an instant.

I'll say that Babe did give them more exposure. But that doesn't justify it as a great song from a ROCK band. Ozzy got more exposure biting the head off of a dove than he ever did with music. I guess that means doing that was good for him.
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Postby Higgy » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:07 am

brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
Im not saying it was number 1 with me
Im saying number 1 got them huge exposure
No other song did that except Roboto.


Roboto got them more exposure when it was in a car ad than when it originally came out. I remember in 83 when it came out. Styx became UNCOOL in an instant.


Bullshit. Styx was ALWAYS uncool and to say that Roboto didn't give Styx exposure in 1983 is pure head-up-the-assness.
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Postby brywool » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:10 am

Higgy wrote:
brywool wrote:
froy wrote:
Im not saying it was number 1 with me
Im saying number 1 got them huge exposure
No other song did that except Roboto.


Roboto got them more exposure when it was in a car ad than when it originally came out. I remember in 83 when it came out. Styx became UNCOOL in an instant.


Bullshit. Styx was ALWAYS uncool and to say that Roboto didn't give Styx exposure in 1983 is pure head-up-the-assness.


Styx was uncool to the PRESS. Always was.
They weren't uncool for kids until that album.
Up in Seattle, until then, kids really dug Styx. They sold out 2 or 3 consecutive
shows in my town in the biggest arena for the time.
To use Froy's logic, look at the sales for that album compared to the 4 before it.
It sold less. People didn't get it.
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