OT: Sen. Larry Craig Announces Resignation

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Postby weatherman90 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:09 am

I don't see what anyone has to be fed up with. That aside, since when is Bill Clinton, the man who had an affair in the White House, a valuable endorsement?

Frankly, Americans do not want another Clinton or another Bush in office. They don't want socialized medicine, and they don't want higher taxes.

conversationpc wrote:I think, at this point, that Hillary has too many negatives to win in '08.


My point exactly.
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Postby conversationpc » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:12 am

weatherman90 wrote:I don't see what anyone has to be fed up with. That aside, since when is Bill Clinton, the man who had an affair in the White House, a valuable endorsement?

Frankly, Americans do not want another Clinton or another Bush in office. They don't want socialized medicine, and they don't want higher taxes.


I'd certainly like to see someone other than a Bush or Clinton in office.
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Postby yak » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:33 am

conversationpc wrote:However, I am not much impressed with any of the frontrunners for the Repubs, so I am not holding out too much hope that any of them will be much better than Billary.


Same here.

The shrub-o is America's worst nightmare. He's too busy jailing Border Patrol agents and enacting a Mexican takeover to care about what this country really needs. He should be tried for treason.

Deano, you should add Tony Snow to that list. I don't know how that mouthpiece gets up in the morning and looks at himself in a mirror.
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Postby Rockindeano » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:37 am

weatherman90 wrote:I don't see what anyone has to be fed up with. That aside, since when is Bill Clinton, the man who had an affair in the White House, a valuable endorsement?

Frankly, Americans do not want another Clinton or another Bush in office. They don't want socialized medicine, and they don't want higher taxes.

conversationpc wrote:I think, at this point, that Hillary has too many negatives to win in '08.


My point exactly.


I will bet you right now, that 110 million Americans WANT Hillary in office.

1- Restore confidence in the US Govt.
2- Restore competence
3-Restore vigor
4- Restore lost friendships and alliances.

Hillary is your next president, get used to it.
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Postby weatherman90 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:45 am

Rockindeano wrote:
weatherman90 wrote:I don't see what anyone has to be fed up with. That aside, since when is Bill Clinton, the man who had an affair in the White House, a valuable endorsement?

Frankly, Americans do not want another Clinton or another Bush in office. They don't want socialized medicine, and they don't want higher taxes.

conversationpc wrote:I think, at this point, that Hillary has too many negatives to win in '08.


My point exactly.


I will bet you right now, that 110 million Americans WANT Hillary in office.

1- Restore confidence in the US Govt.
2- Restore competence
3-Restore vigor
4- Restore lost friendships and alliances.

Hillary is your next president, get used to it.


1. How will she restore confidence in Government? Right now, 70+% of Americans disapprove of Hillary and the gang's job in congress.
2. How will she restore competence? By supporting a health care system that has been proven to be ineffective, slow, and a failure overall? By raising taxes, expanding government, and failing to fix social security?
3. Restore Vigor? The economy is booming, unemployment is low. What vigor needs to be "restored"?
4. Lost friendships? Lost alliances? Canada, the UK, and now even France all have leaders that support Bush. Japan's liberal leader is on the edge of collapse and will likely be replaced soon.

Hillary is not my next President. She is unelectable!
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Postby Rockindeano » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:48 am

Ok Sean, whatever you say.


Take the blinders off for once.
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Postby T-Bone » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:09 am

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Postby BobbyinTN » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:33 am

If this man was forced to resign so should Vitter be.
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Postby Wally_Hatchet » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:33 am

Rockindeano wrote:
SteveForever wrote:
Sure seems like he is guilty but at the same time very strange this is the ONLY time anyone has accused him of this type of thing and he's old. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. 8) oh and there are plenty of dems. on the list of bad judgement calls, plenty.


Yes there are plenty of Dems who are "bad folks" but lately, as in the last 3-8 years, the republicans have the market on bad people cornered.

Off the top of my head-

Alberto Gonzalez
Don Rumsfeld
Mark Foley
The dude from San Diego who got popped
the other dude from Roseville, CA who got popped
Harriet Meyers
Craig
Cheney
Libby
Bush
Wolfowitz
Rove


All bad bad people. I wouldn't piss on them if their guts were on fire.

Hope it was worth it. The GOP has NO chance at the White House OR Congress next year.


DEMS:
William Jefferson - $90,000 in stolen money his freezer, still in office
Barney Frank - Male prostitution ring in his home - still in office
Robert Byrd - former KKK grand wizard - still in office
Sandy Berger - stole documents from the natl. archives - no jail time

William Jefferson Clinton- Impeached by the House of Representatives over allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice, but acquitted by the Senate. Scandals include Whitewater - Travelgate Gennifer Flowersgate - Filegate - Vince Fostergate - Whitewater Billing Recordsgate - Paula Jonesgate- Lincoln Bedroomgate - Donations from Convicted Drug and Weapons Dealersgate - Lippogate - Chinagate - The Lewinsky Affair - Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate - Kathleen Willeygate - Web Hubbell Prison Phone Callgate - Selling Military Technology to the Chinesegate - Jaunita Broaddrick Gate - Lootergate - Pardongate

Edward Moore Kennedy - Democrat - U. S. Senator from Massachusetts. Pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, after his car plunged off a bridge on Chappaquiddick Island killing passenger Mary Jo Kopechne.

Barney Frank - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1981 to present. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman's Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.

DNC - The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct.

Sandy Berger - Democrat - National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger became the focus of a criminal investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings.

Robert Torricelli - Democrat - Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996.

James McGreevey - Democrat - New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments.

Jesse Jackson - Democrat - Democratic candidate for President. Admitted to having an extramarital affair and fathering a illegitimate child.

Gary Condit - Democrat - US Democratic Congressman from California. Condit had an affair with an intern. Condit, covered up the affair and lied to police after she went missing. No charges were ever filed against Condit. Her remains were discovered in a Washington DC park..

Sowande Ajumoke Omokunde - Democrat - the son of newly elected U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, was booked on charges of criminal damage to property for allegedly slashing tires on 20 vans and cars rented by the Republican Party for use in Election Day voter turnout efforts.

Daniel David Rostenkowski - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1959 to 1995. Indicted on 17 felony charges- pleaded guilty to two counts of misuse of public funds and sentenced to seventeen months in federal prison.

Melvin Jay Reynolds - U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1993 to 1995. Convicted on sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice charges and sentenced to five years in prison.

Charles Coles Diggs, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan from 1955 to 1980. Convicted on eleven counts of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms- sentenced to three years in prison.

George Rogers - Democrat - Massachusetts State House of Representatives from 1965 to 1970. M000ember of Massachusetts State Senate from 1975 to 1978. Convicted of bribery in 1978 and sentenced to two years in prison.

Don Siegelman - Democrat Governor Alabama - indicted in a bid-rigging scheme involving a maternity-care program. The charges accused Siegelman and his former chief of staff of helping Tuscaloosa physician Phillip Bobo rig bids. Siegelman was accused of moving $550,000 from the state education budget to the State Fire College in Tuscaloosa so Bobo could use the money to pay off a competitor for a state contract for maternity care.

John Murtha, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator

Gerry Eastman Studds - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page.

James C. Green - Democrat - North Carolina State House of Representatives from 1961 to 1977. Charged with accepting a bribe from an undercover FBI agent, but was acquitted. Convicted of tax evasion in 1997.

Frederick Richmond - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1975 to 1982. Arrested in Washington, D.C., in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor and from an undercover police officer - pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Also - charged with tax evasion, marijuana possession, and improper payments to a federal employee - pleaded guilty.

Raymond Lederer - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1977 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

Harrison Arlington Williams, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Senator from New Jersey from 1959 to 1970. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Allegedly accepted an 18% interest in a titanium mine. Convicted of nine counts of bribery, conspiracy, receiving an unlawful gratuity, conflict of interest, and interstate travel in aid of racketeering. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $50,000.

Frank Thompson, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1955 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting, convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges. Sentenced to three years in prison

Michael Joseph Myers - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1976 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting - convicted of bribery and conspiracy; sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000; expelled from the House of Representatives on October 2, 1980.

John Michael Murphy - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1963 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, and accepting an illegal gratuity. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000.

John Wilson Jenrette, Jr - Democrat - U.S. Representative from South Carolina from 1975 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges and sentenced to prison

Neil Goldschmidt - Democrat - Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland.

Alcee Lamar Hastings - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida. Impeached and removed from office as federal judge in 1989 over bribery charges.

Marion Barry - Democrat - mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine. Sentenced to six months in prison.

Mario Biaggi - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New York from 1969 to 1988. Indicted on federal charges that he had accepted bribes in return for influence on federal contracts.Convicted of obstructing justice and accepting illegal gratuities. Tried in 1988 on federal racketeering charges and convicted on 15 felony counts.

Lee Alexander - Democrat - Mayor of Syracuse, N.Y. from 1970 to 1985. Was indicted over a $1.5 million kickback scandal. Pleaded guilty to racketeering and tax evasion charges. Served six years in prison.

Bill Campbell - Democrat - Mayor of Atlanta. Indicted and charged with fraud over claims he accepted improper payments from contractors seeking city contracts.

Frank Ballance - Democrat - Congressman North Carolina. Pleaded guilty to one charge of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering related to mishandling of money by his charitable foundation.

Hazel O'Leary - Democrat - Secretary of Energy during the Clinton Administration - O'leary took trips all over the world as Secretary with as many 50 staff members and at times rented a plane, which was used by Madonna during her concert tours.

Lafayette Thomas - Democrat - Candidate for Tennessee State House of Representatives in 1954. Sheriff of Davidson County, from 1972 to 1990. Indicted in federal court on 54 counts of abusing his power as sheriff. Pleaded guilty to theft and mail fraud; sentenced to five years in prison.

Mary Rose Oakar - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Ohio from 1977 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of funneling $16,000 through fake donors.

David Giles - Democrat - candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape.

Gary Siplin - Democrat state senator Florida- found guilty of third-degree grand theft of $5,000 or more, a felony, and using services of employees for his candidacy.

Edward Mezvinsky - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Iowa from 1973 to 1977. Indicted on 56 federal fraud charges.

Lena Swanson - Democrat - Member of Washington State Senate in 1997. Pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting unlawful payments from veterans and former prisoners of war.

Abraham J. Hirschfeld - Democrat - candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner.

Henry Cisneros - Democrat - U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1993 to 1997. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI.

James A. Traficant Jr. - Member of House of Representatives from Ohio. Expelled from Congress after being convicted of corruption charges. Sentenced today to eight years in prison for accepting bribes and kickbacks.

John Doug Hays - Democrat - member of Kentucky State Senate from 1980 to 1982 Found guilty of mail fraud for submitting false campaign reports stemming from an unsuccessful run for judge. He was sentenced to six months in prison to be followed by six months of home confinement and three years of probation.

Henry J. Cianfrani - Democrat - Pennsylvania State Senate from 1967 to 1976. Convicted on federal charges of racketeering and mail fraud for padding his Senate payroll. Sentenced to five years in federal prison.

David Hall - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1971 to 1975. Indicted on extortion and conspiracy charges. Convicted and sentenced to three years in prison.

John A. Celona - Democrat - A former state senator was charged with the three counts of mail fraud. Federal prosecutors accused him of defrauding the state and collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars from CVS Corp. and others while serving in the legislature. Celona has agreed to plead guilty to taking money from the CVS pharmacy chain and other companies that had interest in legislation. Under the deal, Celona agreed to cooperate with investigators. He faces up to five years in federal prison on each of the three counts and a $250,000 fine

Allan Turner Howe - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Utah from 1975 to 1977. Arrested for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute.

Jerry Cosentino - Democrat - Illinois State Treasurer. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud - fined $5,000 and sentenced to nine months home confinement.

Joseph Waggonner Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Louisiana from 1961 to 19 79. Arrested in Washington, D.C. for soliciting a policewoman posing as a prostitute

Albert G. Bustamante - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Texas from 1985 to 1993. Convicted in 1993 on racketeering and bribery charges and sentenced to prison.

Lawrence Jack Smith - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Florida from 1983 to 1993. Sentenced to three months in federal prison for tax evasion.

David Lee Walters - Democrat - Governor of Oklahoma from 1991 to 1995. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor election law violation.

James Guy Tucker, Jr. - Democrat - Governor of Arkansas from 1992 to 1996. Resigned in July 1996 after conviction on federal fraud charges as part of the Whitewater investigation.

Walter Rayford Tucker - Democrat - Mayor of Compton, California from 1991 to 1992; U.S. Representative from California from 1993 to 1995. Sentenced to 27 months in prison for extortion and tax evasion.

William McCuen - Democrat - Secretary of State of Arkansas from 1985 to 1995. Admitted accepting kickbacks from two supporters he gave jobs, and not paying taxes on the money. Admitted to conspiring with a political consultant to split $53,560 embezzled from the state in a sham transaction. He was indicted on corruption charges. Pleaded guilty to felony counts tax evasion and accepting a kickback. Sentenced to 17 years in prison.

Walter Fauntroy - Democrat - Delegate to U.S. Congress from the District of Columbia from 1971 to 1991. Charged in federal court with making false statements on financial disclosure forms. Pleaded guilty to one felony count and sentenced to probation.

Carroll Hubbard, Jr. - Democrat - Kentucky State Senate from 1968 to 1975 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1975 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud the Federal Elections Commission and to theft of government property; sentenced to three years in prison.

Joseph Kolter - Democrat - member of Pennsylvania State House of Representatives from 1969 to 1982 and U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1983 to 1993. Indicted by a Federal grand jury on five felony charges of embezzlement at the U.S. House post office. Pleaded guilty.

Webster Hubbell - Democrat - Chief Justice of Arkansas State Supreme Court in 1983. Pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud and tax evasion charges - sentenced to 21 months in prison.

Nicholas Mavroules - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1979 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud and accepting gratuities while in office.

Carl Christopher Perkins - Democrat - Kentucky State House of Representatives from 1981 to 1984 and U.S. Representative from Kentucky from 1985 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to bank fraud in connection with the House banking scandal. Perkins wrote overdrafts totaling about $300,000. Pleaded guilty to charges of filing false statements with the Federal Election Commission and false financial disclosure reports. Sentenced to 21 months in prison.

Richard Hanna - Democrat - U.S. Representative from California from 1963 to 1974. Received payments of about $200,000 from a Korean businessman in what became known as the "Koreagate" influence buying scandal. Pleaded guilty and sentenced to federal prison.

Angelo Errichetti - Democrat - New Jersey State Senator was sentenced to six years in prison and fined $40,000 for his involvement in Abscam.

Daniel Baugh Brewster - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Maryland. Indicted on charges of accepting illegal gratuity while in Senate.

Thomas Joseph Dodd - Democrat - U.S. Senator from Connecticut. Censured by the Senate for financial improprieties, having diverted $116,000 in campaign and testimonial funds to his own use

Edward Fretwell Prichard, Jr. - Democrat - Delegate to Democratic National Convention from Kentucky. Convicted of vote fraud in federal court in connection with ballot-box stuffing. Served five months in prison.

Jerry Springer - Democrat - Resigned from Cincinnati City Council in 1974 after admitting to paying a prostitute with a personal check, which was found in a police raid on a massage parlor.

Guy Hamilton Jones, Sr. - Democrat -Arkansas State Senate. Convicted on federal tax charges and expelled from the Arkansas Senate.

Daniel Flood - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1945 to 1947, 1949 to 1953 and 1955 to 1980. Pleaded guilty to a conspiracy charge involving payoffs and sentenced to probation.

Otto Kerner, Jr - Democrat - Governor of Illinois from 1961 to 1968. While serving as Governor, he and another official made a gain of over $300,000 in a stock deal. Convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury, and related charges. Sentenced to three years in federal prison and fined $50,000.

George Crockett, Jr. - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Michigan. Served four months in federal prison for contempt of court following his defense of a Communist leader on trial for advocating the overthrow of the government.

Cornelius Edward Gallagher - Democrat - U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1959 to 1973. Indicted on federal charges of income tax evasion, conspiracy, and perjury

Mark B. Jimenez - Democrat fundraiser - sentenced to 27 months in prison on charges of tax evasion and conspiracy to defraud the United States and commit election financing offenses.

Bobby Lee Rush - Democrat - U.S. Representative from Illinois. As a Black Panther, spent six months in prison on a weapons charge.

Bolley ''Bo'' Johnson - Democrat - Former Florida House Speaker - received a two-year term for tax evasion.

Roger L. Green - Democrat - Brooklyn Democrat Assemblyman. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for accepting travel reimbursement for trips he did not pay for and was sentenced to fines and probation.

Gloria Davis - Democrat - Bronx assemblywoman. Pleaded guilty to second-degree bribe-taking.
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Re: OT: Sen. Larry Craig Announces Resignation

Postby Red13JoePa » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:56 am

T-Bone wrote:
Sen. Larry Craig yesterday announced he would resign, vowing to clear his name in a homosexual sex scandal
"I have little control over what people choose to believe, but clearing my name is important to me, and my family is so very important also," the Idaho Republican said in a speech laced with apologies and expressions of regret over the abrupt end of his 16-year Senate career.

"To pursue my legal options as I continue to serve Idaho would be an unwanted and unfair distraction of my job and for my Senate colleagues," he said. "These are serious times of war and of conflict. Times that deserve the Senate's and the full nation's attention."

It was not clear what legal options Mr. Craig has to reverse his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct related to soliciting homosexual sex from a plainclothes policeman in a Minnesota airport restroom.




His name will be cleared about when OJ produces "the real killers."
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Postby BobbyinTN » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:23 am

Just demanding equal time- These are scandals from just THIS YEAR.

Republican Scandals in 2007
Submitted by Bob Fertik on September 2, 2007 - 9:35am.

* Republicans

When Republicans were swept out of power in 2006, they blamed the Mark Foley scandal for their losses and declared an end to Republican scandals.

So how's that working out?

Here's a list of Republicans scandals through August 2007. The Republican "culture of corruption" is worse than ever!

Keep this list handy and send it to any Republicans you know who think their party's scandals are behind them.

Source:
http://senate2008guru.blogspot.com/2007 ... -2007.html

January 23, 2007: Republican radio personality Scott Eller Cortelyou of Denver arrested on suspicion of using the Internet to lure a child into a sexual relationship

January 29, 2007: Republican former Jefferson County, Colorado, Treasurer Mark Paschall indicted on two felony charges "in connection with an allegation that Paschall solicited a kickback from a bonus he awarded one of his employees"

January 31, 2007: Republican Congressman Gary Miller is named by Republicans as ranking member of oversight subcommittee of House Financial Services Committee despite the FBI's investigation into his land deals

February 14, 2007: Major Republican fundraiser Brent Wilkes and former CIA executive director Kyle "Dusty" Foggo are indicted by a grandy jury for corrupting CIA contracts

February 16, 2007: Major Republican donor Abdul Tawala Ibn Ali Alishtari, aka Michael Mixon, is indicted in federal court on charges of providing material support to terrorists

March 5, 2007: Ethics complaint filed against Republican Senator Pete Domenici for his role in the Attorney Purge scandal

March 6, 2007: I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney found guilty of obstruction of justice and perjury

March 8, 2007: Republican former U.S. Congressman and Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich admits to extramarital affair

March 23, 2007: Former Deputy Interior Secretary J. Steven Griles, an oil and gas lobbyist who became an architect of George W. Bush's energy policies, pleads guilty to obstructing justice by lying to a Senate committee

March 27, 2007: Criminal charges filed against Republican Pennsylvania State Senator Robert Regola in connection with the death of a teenage neighbor who was shot with the senator's gun; he is accused of three counts of perjury, allowing possession of a firearm by a minor, recklessly endangering another person and false swearing

March 27, 2007: Ronald Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, "indicted on charges of defrauding investors and banks of $1.6 billion while chairman of Collins & Aikman Corp., an auto parts maker that collapsed days after he quit"

March 28, 2007: Robert Vellanoweth, a Republican activist and appointee of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, is arrested on suspicion of gross vehicular manslaughter and felony driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, after a crash that killed three adults and one child

April 18, 2007: The FBI raids the home of Republican Congressman John Doolittle, investigating his ties to Jack Abramoff

April 19, 2007: The FBI raids a business tied to the family of Republican Congressman Rick Renzi, as part of an investigation into his business dealings

April 23, 2007: The FBI questions Republican Congressman Tom Feeney about his dealings with Jack Abramoff

April 23, 2007: Federal auditors find repeat violations of federal election law from the 2004 Senate campaign of Republican Senator Mel Martinez

April 26, 2007: David Huckabee, son of Republican Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, is arrested at an Arkansas airport after a federal X-ray technician detected a loaded gun in his carry-on luggage

May 4, 2007: Bruce Weyhrauch and Pete Kott, former Alaska state Republican legislators, were arrested and accused of soliciting and accepting bribes from the corrupt VECO Corporation

May 4, 2007: Republican state Assemblyman Michael Cole is censured and stripped of his leadership position after the married father of two spent the night at a 21-year-old intern's apartment

May 11, 2007: A field coordinator for Republican Congressman Patrick McHenry is indicted for voter fraud in North Carolina

May 12, 2007: NBC News breaks the story that the FBI is investigating Republican Nevada Governor Jim Gibbons for suspicion of accepting bribes in exchange for securing government contracts

May 15, 2007: Connecticut Republican Party Chairman Chris Healy is arrested for drunk driving (he pled no contest on June 1, but didn't publicly disclose the event until June 11)

May 18, 2007: Republican former South Dakota State Representative Ted Klaudt is charged with eight counts of second-degree rape, two counts of sexual exploitation of a minor, one count of sexual contact with a child younger than 16, two counts of witness tampering and one count of stalking against two foster children in his care

May 21, 2007: Republican state Senate candidate Mark Tate is indicted on nine counts of perjury and two counts of election fraud by a grand jury

June 11, 2007: Republican Senator Larry Craig is arrested for lewd conduct in the men's bathroom of an airport

June 19, 2007: South Carolina Republican state Treasurer and South Carolina Chairman of Giuliani for President Thomas Ravenel is indicted by a grand jury on cocaine distribution charges

July 2, 2007: President George W. Bush commutes the sentence of former Cheney Chief of Staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby following Libby's conviction on obstruction of justice and perjury

July 3, 2007: A grand jury report declares that the sale of public land to Republican Congressman Ken Calvert and his business partners violated the law

July 11, 2007: Republican state Representative and Florida co-Chairman of McCain for President Bob Allen is arrested for soliciting a male undercover police officer, offering to pay $20 to perform oral sex

July 16, 2007: Republican Senator David Vitter holds press conference acknowledging being on the D.C. Madam's list and past involvement with prostitutes

July 16, 2007: Story breaks that Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski was involved in a sweetheart real estate deal

July 19: Republican former state legislator Coy Privette is charged with six counts of aiding and abetting prostitution

July 24, 2007: Michael Flory, former head of the Michigan Federation of Young Republicans, pleads guilty to sexual abuse

July 26, 2007: Media report that Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski will sell back land purchased in a sweetheart deal, following close scrutiny of the shady transaction

July 29, 2007: Glenn Murphy Jr., recently-elected Chairman of the Young Republican National Federation, is accused of sexually assaulting a sleeping man

July 30, 2007: The FBI and IRS raid the home of Republican Senator Ted Stevens following investigations into Stevens' dealings with the corrupt VECO Corporation

August 2, 2007: Bush administration senior adviser Karl Rove disregards a Congressional subpoena and refuses to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee

August 6, 2007: Investigation called for after House Republican Leader John Boehner leaked classified information regarding a secret court ruling over warrantless wiretapping

August 8, 2007: Republican Senator Larry Craig pleads guilty to misdemeanor disorderly conduct following his June 11 arrest

August 9, 2007: Major Republican donor Alan Fabian is charged with 23 counts of bankruptcy fraud, mail fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice, and perjury

August 15, 2007: Republican state House candidate Angelo Cappelli is arrested for perjury and grand theft

August 22, 2007: Republican political consultant Roger Stone resigns his role with the New York state Senate Republicans after reports surfaced that he made a "threatening, obscenity-laced" phone call to the 83-year-old father of Governor Eliot Spitzer

August 27, 2007: Story breaks that Republican Senator Larry Craig was arrested and pled guilty - he had not publicly disclosed the events to that point

That seems like an awful lot of corruption, scandal, hypocrisy, impropriety, and jail-worthy crime, huh? A lot of corruption. One might say an entire Culture of Corruption.
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Postby Wally_Hatchet » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:32 am

Equal time = fair enough.

The point being there are scumbuckets in both parties.
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Postby larryfromnextdoor » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:38 am

Wally_Hatchet wrote:Equal time = fair enough.

The point being there are scumbuckets in both parties.


i think the ones that always got me the most are folks that PREACH agaisnt an issue, yet they partake of it when they are alone..

Rush Limbaugh= drug user.. Alice Resnick agaisnt drinking and driving=drunk driver..,, both had said to throw away the keys on these type of violaters.. both hypocrites.. MADD was real quite after this mess.. again , the message,,
dont get caught,,
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:40 am

larryfromnextdoor wrote:i think the ones that always got me the most are folks that PREACH agaisnt an issue, yet they partake of it when they are alone..

Rush Limbaugh= drug user.. Alice Resnick agaisnt drinking and driving=drunk driver..,, both had said to throw away the keys on these type of violaters.. both hypocrites.. MADD was real quite after this mess.. again , the message,,
dont get caught,,


I can't stand Limbaugh but I can't begrudge the guy getting an illegal prescription for painkillers, knowing how hard it is to get a long-term prescription for them AND how serious the guy's back problems were.
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Postby Rockindeano » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:38 am

conversationpc wrote:
larryfromnextdoor wrote:i think the ones that always got me the most are folks that PREACH agaisnt an issue, yet they partake of it when they are alone..

Rush Limbaugh= drug user.. Alice Resnick agaisnt drinking and driving=drunk driver..,, both had said to throw away the keys on these type of violaters.. both hypocrites.. MADD was real quite after this mess.. again , the message,,
dont get caught,,


I can't stand Limbaugh but I can't begrudge the guy getting an illegal prescription for painkillers, knowing how hard it is to get a long-term prescription for them AND how serious the guy's back problems were.


You're joking, right?

He was doctor shopping, getting vicodin and oxycontin at the rate of 300-400 per week. Dude, feel free to begrudge the shit out of him. Hey, I love vicodin, as it makes all my physical problems go away, but even I couldn't take 300-400 per week.

Face it, Vicodin and oxycontin are habitual and addictive...they make you feel good. Limbaugh knew this and thought of himself as above the law, which obviously he is.
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:44 am

Rockindeano wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
larryfromnextdoor wrote:i think the ones that always got me the most are folks that PREACH agaisnt an issue, yet they partake of it when they are alone..

Rush Limbaugh= drug user.. Alice Resnick agaisnt drinking and driving=drunk driver..,, both had said to throw away the keys on these type of violaters.. both hypocrites.. MADD was real quite after this mess.. again , the message,,
dont get caught,,


I can't stand Limbaugh but I can't begrudge the guy getting an illegal prescription for painkillers, knowing how hard it is to get a long-term prescription for them AND how serious the guy's back problems were.


You're joking, right?

He was doctor shopping, getting vicodin and oxycontin at the rate of 300-400 per week. Dude, feel free to begrudge the shit out of him. Hey, I love vicodin, as it makes all my physical problems go away, but even I couldn't take 300-400 per week.

Face it, Vicodin and oxycontin are habitual and addictive...they make you feel good. Limbaugh knew this and thought of himself as above the law, which obviously he is.

Limbaugh rules ALL! According to whining Sen. Trent Lott "talk radio" b.k.a. Rush Limbaugh killed that b.s. amnesty bill they tried to sneak through w/o debate. We should all be grateful to Rush for that!
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Postby Rockindeano » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:17 am

RaiderFan wrote:Limbaugh rules ALL!


You are retarded if you believe that.
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:23 am

Rockindeano wrote:
RaiderFan wrote:Limbaugh rules ALL!


You are retarded if you believe that.

Really? The left have been searching for a "liberal Limbaugh" for what 15 years? From Jim Hightower to Al Franken and Air America radio. They've failed miserably every time! Just like their pathetic social programs.
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Postby weatherman90 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:24 am

RaiderFan wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
RaiderFan wrote:Limbaugh rules ALL!


You are retarded if you believe that.

Really? The left have been searching for a "liberal Limbaugh" for what 15 years? From Jim Hightower to Al Franken and Air America radio. They've failed miserably every time! Just like their pathetic social programs.


Well said RaiderFan. Republicans rule radio and it drives liberals absolutely nuts!

Also note how Rockindeano failed to respond to this post above in reference to HC:

1. How will she restore confidence in Government? Right now, 70+% of Americans disapprove of Hillary and the gang's job in congress.
2. How will she restore competence? By supporting a health care system that has been proven to be ineffective, slow, and a failure overall? By raising taxes, expanding government, and failing to fix social security?
3. Restore Vigor? The economy is booming, unemployment is low. What vigor needs to be "restored"?
4. Lost friendships? Lost alliances? Canada, the UK, and now even France all have leaders that support Bush. Japan's liberal leader is on the edge of collapse and will likely be replaced soon.
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Postby Rick » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:39 am

weatherman90 wrote:
RaiderFan wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
RaiderFan wrote:Limbaugh rules ALL!


You are retarded if you believe that.

Really? The left have been searching for a "liberal Limbaugh" for what 15 years? From Jim Hightower to Al Franken and Air America radio. They've failed miserably every time! Just like their pathetic social programs.


Well said RaiderFan. Republicans rule radio and it drives liberals absolutely nuts!

Also note how Rockindeano failed to respond to this post above in reference to HC:

1. How will she restore confidence in Government? Right now, 70+% of Americans disapprove of Hillary and the gang's job in congress.
2. How will she restore competence? By supporting a health care system that has been proven to be ineffective, slow, and a failure overall? By raising taxes, expanding government, and failing to fix social security?
3. Restore Vigor? The economy is booming, unemployment is low. What vigor needs to be "restored"?
4. Lost friendships? Lost alliances? Canada, the UK, and now even France all have leaders that support Bush. Japan's liberal leader is on the edge of collapse and will likely be replaced soon.


The economy is booming while America grows deeper and deeper in debt. They have to create more debt to survive the enormous inflation that Bush has caused. And make no mistake, that is ALL Bush's doing. Home foreclosures are at record highs. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's the Republican way. Always has been.
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Postby weatherman90 » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:00 am

Rick wrote:Home foreclosures are at record highs. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.


Home foreclosures are at record highs because a lot of people weren't smart enough to get a fixed interest rate.

The poor get poorer only if they are too lazy to get a job.
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:18 am

Rick wrote:The economy is booming while America grows deeper and deeper in debt. They have to create more debt to survive the enormous inflation that Bush has caused. And make no mistake, that is ALL Bush's doing.

Enormous inflation? Dude you've got to be kidding me. Inflation has been incredibly low for Bush's term. It may have creeped up a bit recently. But to refer to it as enormous is not very informed.
Rick wrote:The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's the Republican way. Always has been.

B.S. Democrat talking points and nothing more. The gap between the upper class and the lower class has closed compared to when Clinton was in office. Bush's tax cuts increased the percentage of taxes that are paid by the evil rich. Cry me a river about the "poor" in America. The biggest threat to America's "poor" is obesity! Here are a few facts below about America's "poor".

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various gov­ernment reports:

1. Forty-three percent of all poor households actu­ally own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

2.Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

3.Only 6 percent of poor households are over­crowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

4.The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

5.Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.

6.Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

7.Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

8.Eighty-nine percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:29 am

Rick wrote:The economy is booming while America grows deeper and deeper in debt. They have to create more debt to survive the enormous inflation that Bush has caused. And make no mistake, that is ALL Bush's doing. Home foreclosures are at record highs. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's the Republican way. Always has been.


Inflation is actually lower now than it was at the end of the Clinton administration and the average yearly inflation rate is only slightly higher during the Bush administration than it was during Clinton's.

http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/ ... lation.asp

http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/ ... _chart.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_H ... ncient.svg

So was it ALL Clinton's doing when inflation was higher in Clinton's administration?
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Postby Rockindeano » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:34 am

weatherman90 wrote:
Also note how Rockindeano failed to respond to this post above in reference to HC:


LOL. No, just busy, but I will re-engage.

Congress has a low favorability because of the GOP. Congress gets a 30% approval, but at the same time, people say they trust Dems over Repubs 51-35%. Next election, the GOP will lose more seats and then shit can get done, especially with a Dem President. You all had your turn, and fucked this place up badly. Time's up.

1. How will she restore confidence in Government? Right now, 70+% of Americans disapprove of Hillary and the gang's job in congress.


She will restore confidence by ending an unjust war, and bringing some competence onboard, something that the WH hasn't seen in almost 8 years.

2. How will she restore competence? By supporting a health care system that has been proven to be ineffective, slow, and a failure overall? By raising taxes, expanding government, and failing to fix social security?



I hope she does try to bring in a National Health Care system. 41 million of your fellow citizens do NOT have care. That's plain wrong. Raise Taxes? We have to, it's a necessary evil.

3. Restore Vigor? The economy is booming, unemployment is low. What vigor needs to be "restored"?


Booming with NEW McDonalds, Taco Bell and Burger King jobs. Well done.

4. Lost friendships? Lost alliances? Canada, the UK, and now even France all have leaders that support Bush. Japan's liberal leader is on the edge of collapse and will likely be replaced soon.


Oh I see. Now, they have leaders who support Bush. Awww....No, they all know his sorry ass is history in 14 months.
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Postby Rick » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:34 am

RaiderFan wrote:
Rick wrote:The economy is booming while America grows deeper and deeper in debt. They have to create more debt to survive the enormous inflation that Bush has caused. And make no mistake, that is ALL Bush's doing.

Enormous inflation? Dude you've got to be kidding me. Inflation has been incredibly low for Bush's term. It may have creeped up a bit recently. But to refer to it as enormous is not very informed.
Rick wrote:The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's the Republican way. Always has been.

B.S. Democrat talking points and nothing more. The gap between the upper class and the lower class has closed compared to when Clinton was in office. Bush's tax cuts increased the percentage of taxes that are paid by the evil rich. Cry me a river about the "poor" in America. The biggest threat to America's "poor" is obesity! Here are a few facts below about America's "poor".

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various gov­ernment reports:

1. Forty-three percent of all poor households actu­ally own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

2.Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

3.Only 6 percent of poor households are over­crowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

4.The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

5.Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.

6.Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

7.Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

8.Eighty-nine percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and more than a third have an automatic dishwasher.


You've got to be kidding me. I don't know where you live, but where I live, EVERYTHING is higher except homes and my paycheck. The reason homes are lower is because nobody is buying them because they're paying more for gas, natural gas, food, insurance, they're paying more for everything.

Eighty percent of people have airconditioning because it's necessary to survive with global warming. Back in 1970 it didn't get up to 105 in the northern states like it does now. I feel fucking sorry for the twenty percent that don't have it.

People here have roomier homes because that's what is built in America. The reason people don't have roomy homes in the cities you mentioned is because square footage costs exponentially more there.

Cars are a necessity in most parts of the country, and I won't even discuss $29 VCR's, DVD players and microwaves. I can get a color TV for $25 bucks at a garage sale.

Pay disparity between workers and upper management is embarrassing. The only reason it isn't being addressed is because certain peoples pockets are being lined.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:45 am

Rockindeano wrote:Congress has a low favorability because of the GOP. Congress gets a 30% approval, but at the same time, people say they trust Dems over Repubs 51-35%. Next election, the GOP will lose more seats and then shit can get done, especially with a Dem President. You all had your turn, and fucked this place up badly. Time's up.


Give me a break. If you don't think the libs are as much to blame for the inteptitude of Congress, you're either completely out of touch with reality or smoking some pretty powerful stuff.

She will restore confidence by ending an unjust war, and bringing some competence onboard, something that the WH hasn't seen in almost 8 years.


She's not going to end anything. She's not stupid. Besides that, one day she supports the war. Things go bad and she doesn't support it. Things start going well again and now she supports it again. Make up your mind already, Hillary! :roll:

I hope she does try to bring in a National Health Care system. 41 million of your fellow citizens do NOT have care. That's plain wrong. Raise Taxes? We have to, it's a necessary evil.


The 41 million number isn't quite accurate...

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=4211&type=0

It is frequently stated that about 40 million Americans lack health insurance. That estimate overstates the number of people who are uninsured all year. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that between 21 million and 31 million people were uninsured for all of 1998, the most recent year for which reliable comparative data are available. Since then, the number who are uninsured all year probably has not changed substantially, given historical trends. Furthermore, the uninsured population is fluid, with many people gaining and losing coverage. Between half and two-thirds of the people who experienced a period of time without insurance in 1998, for example, had coverage for other portions of the year.
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:53 am

Rick wrote:You've got to be kidding me. I don't know where you live, but where I live, EVERYTHING is higher except homes and my paycheck. The reason homes are lower is because nobody is buying them because they're paying more for gas, natural gas, food, insurance, they're paying more for everything.

I'm living in the state that the booming economy forgot. Michigan! 2nd highest unemployment rate in the nation. With the tax base shrinking so much guess what our liberal gov. and two liberal senators' brilliant idea to raise state revenue is? Yup, raise taxes even higher. Luckily, we still have a small republican edge in the state senate that's blocking it.
Rick wrote:Eighty percent of people have airconditioning because it's necessary to survive with global warming. Back in 1970 it didn't get up to 105 in the northern states like it does now.

:lol: Sorry I know it's rude but it was just too damn funny :lol:
I remember a few 100' days in the late 70's though.
Rick wrote:I feel fucking sorry for the twenty percent that don't have it.

You're talking to one of the 20% :wink: And my wife, son and myself have managed to survive the wraths of global warming!!!!
Rick wrote:People here have roomier homes because that's what is built in America. The reason people don't have roomy homes in the cities you mentioned is because square footage costs exponentially more there.

Yes, it is good to be American then? We must be doing something right when our "poor" have more living space than the average European
Rick wrote:Cars are a necessity in most parts of the country

I don't have any #'s right in front of me. But wouldn't you say that a good portion of the "poor" live in inner cities where there are mass transit options? I would think so. Seems to me cars for the "poor" in most cases would be a luxury.
Rick wrote:Cars are a necessity in most parts of the country, and I won't even discuss $29 VCR's, DVD players and microwaves. I can get a color TV for $25 bucks at a garage sale.

All of which would first be better spent for the health care that democrats are trying to get into my pockets to pay for.
Rick wrote:Pay disparity between workers and upper management is embarrassing. The only reason it isn't being addressed is because certain peoples pockets are being lined.

It sucks. But capitalism is 1000x's better than socialism.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby Rick » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:03 am

RaiderFan wrote:
Rick wrote:You've got to be kidding me. I don't know where you live, but where I live, EVERYTHING is higher except homes and my paycheck. The reason homes are lower is because nobody is buying them because they're paying more for gas, natural gas, food, insurance, they're paying more for everything.

I'm living in the state that the booming economy forgot. Michigan! 2nd highest unemployment rate in the nation. With the tax base shrinking so much guess what our liberal gov. and two liberal senators' brilliant idea to raise state revenue is? Yup, raise taxes even higher. Luckily, we still have a small republican edge in the state senate that's blocking it.
Rick wrote:Eighty percent of people have airconditioning because it's necessary to survive with global warming. Back in 1970 it didn't get up to 105 in the northern states like it does now.

:lol: Sorry I know it's rude but it was just too damn funny :lol:
I remember a few 100' days in the late 70's though.
Rick wrote:I feel fucking sorry for the twenty percent that don't have it.

You're talking to one of the 20% :wink: And my wife, son and myself have managed to survive the wraths of global warming!!!!
Rick wrote:People here have roomier homes because that's what is built in America. The reason people don't have roomy homes in the cities you mentioned is because square footage costs exponentially more there.

Yes, it is good to be American then? We must be doing something right when our "poor" have more living space than the average European
Rick wrote:Cars are a necessity in most parts of the country

I don't have any #'s right in front of me. But wouldn't you say that a good portion of the "poor" live in inner cities where there are mass transit options? I would think so. Seems to me cars for the "poor" in most cases would be a luxury.
Rick wrote:Cars are a necessity in most parts of the country, and I won't even discuss $29 VCR's, DVD players and microwaves. I can get a color TV for $25 bucks at a garage sale.

All of which would first be better spent for the health care that democrats are trying to get into my pockets to pay for.
Rick wrote:Pay disparity between workers and upper management is embarrassing. The only reason it isn't being addressed is because certain peoples pockets are being lined.

It sucks. But capitalism is 1000x's better than socialism.


Sure is. These are reasonable arguments.
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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:07 am

Rockindeano wrote:She will restore confidence by ending an unjust war, and bringing some competence onboard, something that the WH hasn't seen in almost 8 years.

Dude she's not ending anything. You think she wants to take the role Nixon took during Vietnam?
Rockindeano wrote:I hope she does try to bring in a National Health Care system. 41 million of your fellow citizens do NOT have care.

Well, she can't do any worse than the last time she proposed it. 99-0 vote against in congress :lol: You'd expect a bit better for the smartest woman in the world! :lol:
Rockindeano wrote:Raise Taxes? We have to, it's a necessary evil.

Yeah, necessary to raise the # of unemployed and dependent on government, thus recuiting more needful democrat voters.
Rockindeano wrote:Booming with NEW McDonalds, Taco Bell and Burger King jobs. Well done.

Uh, well then these joints must be paying damn well cuz the median wage has increased under Bush. If minimum wage jobs all that were added it would have gone down.
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Postby Rockindeano » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:23 am

Does the GOP send the talking points to you directly via email? Your arguments are so fuzzy and distorted. I could blast you to smithereens on a TV show.
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