THE WHOLE STORY?

[Joe Vana]

Whatever...your OPINION means no more than reds or larks or mine or Slander's for that matter...JERK.

You really want us all to sit here and believe that yours, mine, Red, etc opinions of what happened with Survivor means as much as JV's? What utter crap. There is a difference between expert opinion and armchair bullshit.

Slander....thanks....BUT....my OPINION does NOT mean anymore than Eyeof, JoePa or whoever....BUT, facts for that matter are another story....

This is a great board....let's not let it become the Wizard of Oz....otherwise known as the Journey forum......JV

JV thanks. I agree it is a great board. I want to keep it that way. I hope you stay on board (no pun intended). I enjoy the insight you bring. JV I have a background in covering sports. This reminds me of when my friends would throughout their opinions but so-n-so quarterback etc and I would be in the locker room knowing what actually went down. They still stuck to their opinions without the facts. I can relate.

Slander.....It will always be that way.....this is an OPINION board...not a FACT board....if so there would be about 2 posts a day.....

JV

[Eyeof]

Okay, i'm game to let this drop, but i will defend myself.

I dind't say a word about Frankie on this thread, until you called me out and asked for examples...I gave you the example that I have, which I'm sorry my man, it happend. The cat lied to me and several others. He mislead us and took us down a path of BS. That's not gossip or anything else. I'm over it, but you asked for examples and so I gave. Go back and read the post...you took it upon yourself to personally attack me. I've never once done that to you and you know that.

[Lark]

Just as I thought JOEPA. yourself, Lark, eyeof, don't have shite for evidence of the accusations you make



Slander, Please leave me out of your defense because obviously you don't have a clue about what I know.

[Slander]

Just as I thought JOEPA. yourself, Lark, eyeof, don't have shite for evidence of the accusations you make



Slander, Please leave me out of your defense because obviously you don't have a clue about what I know.

Lark I don't care what you know. You have always trashed FS. My point is this is: if you folks don't have examples of what happened to break the group up than quit speculating. Bring some damn facts to the table. That's all I'm asking for. If your going to bring it than friggin bring it! Don't accuse FS of being the anti-christ if you can't cite examples. If you are going to accuse someone of having poor character than grow a pair and prove it. I think it's only fair. You guys are so gutless to attack someone who is even participating in the board. Yet you never bring any examples to the table. As for Eyeof he says he was lied to. What the hell does that mean? Can you be any more general? By the way I would be saying the same if you were attacking Jamo or JJ. I for one don't think attacking someone's character should be sport. Hey I thought this was a music board anyway.

[axecrew]

Just as I thought JOEPA. yourself, Lark, eyeof, don't have shite for evidence of the accusations you make



Slander, Please leave me out of your defense because obviously you don't have a clue about what I know.

Lark I don't care what you know. You have always trashed FS. My point is this is: if you folks don't have examples of what happened to break the group up than quit speculating. Bring some damn facts to the table. That's all I'm asking for. If your going to bring it than friggin bring it! Don't accuse FS of being the anti-christ if you can't cite examples. If you are going to accuse someone of having poor character than grow a pair and prove it. I think it's only fair. You guys are so gutless to attack someone who is even participating in the board. Yet you never bring any examples to the table. As for Eyeof he says he was lied to. What the hell does that mean? Can you be any more general? By the way I would be saying the same if you were attacking Jamo or JJ. I for one don't think attacking someone's character should be sport. Hey I thought this was a music board anyway.

Slander...if these people did just what you ask for...cited examples and fact...you wouldn't believe them,so what purpose does your question/challenge serve?

Joe....Here's a question that you can easily have knowledge of......What happened to sour your relationship with Jim Peterik?
I know that after the 1st Mecca album and appearances at World Stage shows,you no longer associate with Jim or so I've been told. Is this true and if so What happened?

[Slander]

Just as I thought JOEPA. yourself, Lark, eyeof, don't have shite for evidence of the accusations you make



Slander, Please leave me out of your defense because obviously you don't have a clue about what I know.

Lark I don't care what you know. You have always trashed FS. My point is this is: if you folks don't have examples of what happened to break the group up than quit speculating. Bring some damn facts to the table. That's all I'm asking for. If your going to bring it than friggin bring it! Don't accuse FS of being the anti-christ if you can't cite examples. If you are going to accuse someone of having poor character than grow a pair and prove it. I think it's only fair. You guys are so gutless to attack someone who is even participating in the board. Yet you never bring any examples to the table. As for Eyeof he says he was lied to. What the hell does that mean? Can you be any more general? By the way I would be saying the same if you were attacking Jamo or JJ. I for one don't think attacking someone's character should be sport. Hey I thought this was a music board anyway.

Slander...if these people did just what you ask for...cited examples and fact...you wouldn't believe them,so what purpose does your question/challenge serve?

Joe....Here's a question that you can easily have knowledge of......What happened to sour your relationship with Jim Peterik?
I know that after the 1st Mecca album and appearances at World Stage shows,you no longer associate with Jim or so I've been told. Is this true and if so What happened?

Axecrew don't speak for me. I believe what I believe. I also know that stories have many sides. I just don't understand what purpose it serves to tear down FS? I just don't get it. How does that move the ball forward in any way shape or form? I respect that FS, JP, and JJ have all remained fairly silent on what happened to end the group. They all 3 are class! We should follow suit and stop the speculation. Is that really too much to ask? I mean seriously. What is the need to gossip?

[Lark]

Slander, I was only saying that you don't know any of us personally. We are posters on a music board and we go by an alias. You don't know if we have a relationship with FS or any member of the band or not. You are just assuming we don't and are running our mouth and asking us to step up to the plate to support our facts and opinions. That is fine for you to make that assumption. I have never downplayed the fact that I am NOT an FS fan, many PERSONAL reasons, I am a fan of the band and the guys in the band, no I do not think FS is keeping the band alive, as RED said sometime ago, maybe barely on life support. I have been to many, many shows, and rarely can anyone in the audience tell you any of the band members names especially FS's name. Most do not know him other than as the "dude" that played the guitar for 20 minutes while the other band members shook their head. I have even been to many shows where the audience boo'd FS for his long solos. I have personally watched his long solo clear a crowd. So, as I have said, I am not an FS fan and I personally don't care what FS does on his own time or what projects he is working on and I don't like it when one of his projects uses the SURVIVOR board to promote his own agenda. I am a fan of the BAND, Billy O, Marc, Robin, Doc, and unfortunately since FS is a member, I have to include him. Would I walk across the street to hear FS play on his own or with one of his projects, NO WAY but again, that is just my preference. Would I walk across the street to hear the band, YES.

[Slander]

You don't know if we have a relationship with FS or any member of the band or not. You are just assuming we don't and are running our mouth and asking us to step up to the plate to support our facts and opinions.

I don't care if you have a relastionship with him or not! That wasn't the point. Maybe you know FS. My point was is that it's gutless to tear someone down on a board. Just admit it. It's easy. You can hide behind your cursor. Wow you guys are so brave. Once again, I will ask you, what is the point? What is the ponit into tearing into someone because they want to share their knowledge of a side project that FS is part of? We should be thanking someone for sharing that experience. It's a privilege when someone share's the world with you. I do agree with you on one thing. The 20 minute guitar solo had to go. I saw them recently and that was absent. Great show. Wehter you like it or not Lark Frankie has kept the band alive. It's not on life support as you joke around. Gee they had a commercial and recent days and played on national television. Let's be honest bands from that genre would kill for the exposure. But you guys are too busy bashing and not giving credit where credit is due. What's the argument here. It's a no brainer. Let's stay positive.

[Joe Vana]

I personally don't care what FS does on his own time or what projects he is working on and I don't like it when one of his projects uses the SURVIVOR board to promote his own agenda.

Lark...

I have been on 6 albums with JP, sang on probably 50 demos for him over a 10 year period, perfomed as a member of World Stage 4 times, did other shows with him, wrote an album with him, he produced my first Mecca album and we were as close as can be for 15 plus years...FS is producing my new album and playing guitar.....

Is that enough of a reason to be on this board??

I was asked questions because they relate to members of Survivor past and present....and I work professionally with these guys and they are friends....it is relevant....

Now...as to agenda's....what is YOUR agenda??

JV

[Lark]

This will be my last post here as it seems everything becomes a flame war and some people are on here just for that....I simply don't have time for negativity in my life....

Joe,
I don't have an agenda, as I said I am a fan of the band as a whole, JP was before my time and I think JJ is the greatest since Elvis. I don't care how many projects you have worked on in your past life. I think you should write to Andrew and get your own board, I am sure that he would be happy to do so since you are a sponsor of the up and coming show. I hope you don't take that as disrespectful, but the majority of us are on this board because we are SURVIVOR fans, not FS fans because to us, SURVIVOR is more than FS, always has been and always will be.

Slander,
Here you go with the commercial and national television thing again. The Horse is Dead. It boosted Survivor so much that they or should I say FS (since Joe stated that FS just didn't want to do it) CANCELLED their European dates. It boosted them so much that the album they have been working on for sooooooo long got put off another decade, it boosted them so much that if you went out on the street and talked to 100 Dancing with the Stars fans and asked them to name some of the groups that have performed on the show, they probably couldn't remember past the other night when Dolly Parton performed her very old hit. Yes, I will agree that Survivor has been given some awesome opportunities, unfortunately, the leader of the band has procrastinated perhaps or just let his ego get in the way and they have somehow missed out on all that could have come from the opportunities. I know what you are going to say, They are playing more dates, well if you go back to the last full year the JJ was with the band, you will count the same amount of gigs and a few European dates as well and that was prior to a national television show!

Again, this is just my two cents. When I am on the Survivor, FS, JP, JJ board, I want to read about each of them playing music, not their projects, unless of course their projects is Playing live shows here in the NOW!

[Lark]

Not to bring up the past but I am still waiting................................................................

Red13JoePa wrote:
It just speaks volumes to his lack of ability or desire to focus on Survivor.[/quote

I don't know how to "quote" so I hope this works!!!!! JV stated he has read this site for WEEKS, yet he just stopped by CM's house on the 6th and saw this board then how have you been reading the "berating" for weeks? Just wondering?!?


Lark...

I will get you an EXACT time in which I first logged on....Jesus H. Christ...NO wonder not many artists are on here...

JV

Sorry JV, I couldn't resist.

[Lark]

Joe....Here's a question that you can easily have knowledge of......What happened to sour your relationship with Jim Peterik?
I know that after the 1st Mecca album and appearances at World Stage shows,you no longer associate with Jim or so I've been told. Is this true and if so What happened?




Also, still waiting on an answer to this question. Since it is about you, Joe, and you have the facts and can tell your side of the story. If what axe says is not true, then you also have the opportunity to clear any assumptions that we may have made without the facts.

[Joe Vana]

Joe,
I don't have an agenda, as I said I am a fan of the band as a whole, JP was before my time and I think JJ is the greatest since Elvis. I don't care how many projects you have worked on in your past life. I think you should write to Andrew and get your own board, I am sure that he would be happy to do so since you are a sponsor of the up and coming show. I hope you don't take that as disrespectful, but the majority of us are on this board because we are SURVIVOR fans, not FS fans because to us, SURVIVOR is more than FS, always has been and always will be.

Again, this is just my two cents. When I am on the Survivor, FS, JP, JJ board, I want to read about each of them playing music, not their projects, unless of course their projects is Playing live shows here in the NOW!

First...I sponsored the show because WITHOUT SPONSORS there would be NO SHOW...I was asked, I obliged...I help my friends anyway I can...

Now...keep in mind I go way back with JP (and I was in World Stage), and Jamo I don't know well at all.....BUT.......World Stage is an EX members PROJECT, Pride of Lions in a EX Members project, Jimi Jamison Band is an EX members project...all are discussed here and you are a regular to those commentaries....BUT....i mean BUT, FS has a project he is involved in (Mecca), and it's wrong to discuss???...and HE IS STILL IN THE BAND....

ANYTHING FS is crap to you...anything Jamo is Amazing....why not just make it the "Ex members forum"...that would make you happy....

Quote this!!!

[Lark]

Gee, I really don't have a life here on a Friday night! You sound just like Slander, perhaps separated at birth! As far as JJ being amazing and FS being crap, those are your words, not mine. I think JJ is a great guy, personable, treats his fans with the utmost respect and on top of that has an amazing voice, thus my comparison to Elvis, both Memphis boys. FS, well what can I say, of ALL the shows that I have been to, behind the scenes, on the premises, I have never seen FS speak to a fan, he rarely acknowledges the band members, etc, cares more about his soy milk than the fans that purchase the tickets. But when you are FS, who needs fans, he is his biggest fan, then you and then slander. Oh, but he is a deep cat so we are to accept him and be loyal to the death.

JV, you will rub some people the wrong way when you start sounding like Slander on his JAMO soap box. If you haven't noticed, Slander is the minority on this board as far as eating, sleeping and believing every word that is spoken by FS. The rest of us are here for the BAND, THE MUSIC, AND THE NEW ALBUM TO BE RELEASED SOMETIME IN 2061 TO COINCIDE WITH ALL THE MEDIA ATTENTION THAT HALEY'S COMET WILL RECEIVE THE SAME YEAR.

[axecrew]

Just as I thought JOEPA. yourself, Lark, eyeof, don't have shite for evidence of the accusations you make



Slander, Please leave me out of your defense because obviously you don't have a clue about what I know.

Lark I don't care what you know. You have always trashed FS. My point is this is: if you folks don't have examples of what happened to break the group up than quit speculating. Bring some damn facts to the table. That's all I'm asking for. If your going to bring it than friggin bring it! Don't accuse FS of being the anti-christ if you can't cite examples. If you are going to accuse someone of having poor character than grow a pair and prove it. I think it's only fair. You guys are so gutless to attack someone who is even participating in the board. Yet you never bring any examples to the table. As for Eyeof he says he was lied to. What the hell does that mean? Can you be any more general? By the way I would be saying the same if you were attacking Jamo or JJ. I for one don't think attacking someone's character should be sport. Hey I thought this was a music board anyway.

Slander...if these people did just what you ask for...cited examples and fact...you wouldn't believe them,so what purpose does your question/challenge serve?

Joe....Here's a question that you can easily have knowledge of......What happened to sour your relationship with Jim Peterik?
I know that after the 1st Mecca album and appearances at World Stage shows,you no longer associate with Jim or so I've been told. Is this true and if so What happened?

Axecrew don't speak for me. I believe what I believe. I also know that stories have many sides. I just don't understand what purpose it serves to tear down FS? I just don't get it. How does that move the ball forward in any way shape or form? I respect that FS, JP, and JJ have all remained fairly silent on what happened to end the group. They all 3 are class! We should follow suit and stop the speculation. Is that really too much to ask? I mean seriously. What is the need to gossip?

Slander....would you mind telling me where it was I spoke for you? I stated an opinion,nothing more then ask you a question. It's my OPINION that no matter what facts are presented...you won't believe them and accuse that person of creating them to "tear down" Survivor or Sullivan. Again where did I speak for you?

[crazy mar tay]

I should probably stay out of this?

But in an attempt to try to calm things down a bit I will say the following.

I can verify that BOTH Red13JoePa and Joe Vana are huge Survivor fans and are passionate about the bands music.
And sometimes that passion can get people angry, as is the case here. I would assume that all of us who are regular posters here on the Survivor board are true fans of the bands music, and that we would love it if all of our favorite members of the band got along well. Being big fans we hear stories about what has caused certain problems within the band, some of them are probably true, and some are probably false? If we could force all of the members of the band to get along with each other we would, but we can't.

As I have mentioned on here before there are certain jackasses that have ruined the Journey board on this site. It has usually been done because some people can't get past the fact that either Steve Perry or Jeff Scott Soto are no-longer in Journey.
And the Journey board has also been ruined because tons of people are constantly at one anothers throats.
I hope that we don't have that happen here on the Survivor board!!!
So please, everyone, lets all try our best to be civil with one another, and to remember that were all Survivor fans here, even if we don't always agree on what the bands members do!!!

I hear ya 100% there guy. But JoePA, eye, lark, axe talk so much shit and offer up nada of proof! they got a bug up there ass for Frankie for things they think they know or this or that. I all see is missinformation on there part at least what ive seen and I have been on here for a while.

You guys don't know shit of the real truth and Joe would know. He's worked with and been around JP from around CITG era til about 4 yrs ago and he knew frankie in those years as well. Now they are great friends and working together on a very cool project.

Joe gets asked his resume and he gives it and still lark you talk shit. Joe ACTUALLY KNOWS these guys and has worked with them and has heard all there tales and stories etc etc have you lark??? what do you know of survivor business??

JoePA , eye of..., axe and lark pretty much from what i can tell are here to bash frankie and talk of how bad the band sucks now. I hear or see little else from them. ohh yeah how great JP n Jamo are that 2.

I remained on the sidelines for too long. If you guys actually knew anything you'd sooo be singing a different tune. but, you guys are on the inside right?? you know it all?? Keep talking out of your asses...your so good at it.



c.m.

[Lark]

CM-Again, it amazes me that you, Slander and JV (all the people that love FS) make assumptions that other people don't know what really goes on inside the great band of Survivor. So, as I stated before, this is a board that is used to discuss opinions and facts. Please think what you want, I don't care. However, the picture you have of the great FS and the one I have are very different. My opinion comes from PERSONAL experience and I don't have to offer you one shred of evidence of who I am and what I know, just like none of us have ever called you on the carpet when you praise FS and want proof that you actually have a relationship with him. I have never said anything about FS ability to play the guitar as I think he is a fine musician. Yes, this board should really be about the music but since I joined, it has been more about certain people bowing down to worship FS as the great one! I have a right to form an opinion and I have. As I said, my opinion is not from standing in line and purchasing a ticket or reading this board, my opinion comes from real life, from being a part of the circle. When all is said and done, I know as much if not more about FS and the band Survivor as a whole than you do. However, you and others seem determined for people like me who don't share the same opinion of FS as you to offer proof, to satisfy you. Get a life!

[Red13JoePa]

Not talkin shit, crazy martay, just wonder why Frankie Sullivan has this bad rep as far as treating Survivor bandmembers go. I didn't GIVE him the rep and where there is smoke there is fire.

[Eyeof]

Crazy Marty or whatever, to my knowledge I've never spoken one word to you or about you. You don't know one thing about me and perhaps you should just keep your mouth shut in regards to me.

How clear can I be here. I'm going to take it slow for those who can't seem to get it. I was asked, by Slander, to state my problem with FS. Real slow here. My problem is that is is a liar. He lied to me and many of you. If you guys don't believe me, ask Silver Girl. She was there. He would come on the board. Yes Frankie. He would post. (This is not opinion, it is truth). He said all types of really bad stuff about JJ. He beat JJ down and he said that he 'would never play with him again.' Heck, we were not even allowed to post about JJ on the board. Dave Bickler was on the board as well.

Frankie would tell us about how he was getting the name back, etc and the new album with Dave. And then BAM. He did a complete 180. SLANDER READ SLOWLY. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION. IT HAPPENED TO US. FS fired Dave and brought JJ back. He had misled us right down the last day.

I still have the post where a stunned Dave came in and said goodbye to all.

THIS IS FACT guys. It meant something to me. It happened, so don't tell me it didnt.

[Joe Vana]

Crazy Marty or whatever, to my knowledge I've never spoken one word to you or about you. You don't know one thing about me and perhaps you should just keep your mouth shut in regards to me.

How clear can I be here. I'm going to take it slow for those who can't seem to get it. I was asked, by Slander, to state my problem with FS. Real slow here. My problem is that is is a liar. He lied to me and many of you. If you guys don't believe me, ask Silver Girl. She was there. He would come on the board. Yes Frankie. He would post. (This is not opinion, it is truth). He said all types of really bad stuff about JJ. He beat JJ down and he said that he 'would never play with him again.' Heck, we were not even allowed to post about JJ on the board. Dave Bickler was on the board as well.

Frankie would tell us about how he was getting the name back, etc and the new album with Dave. And then BAM. He did a complete 180. SLANDER READ SLOWLY. THIS IS NOT MY OPINION. IT HAPPENED TO US. FS fired Dave and brought JJ back. He had misled us right down the last day.

I still have the post where a stunned Dave came in and said goodbye to all.

THIS IS FACT guys. It meant something to me. It happened, so don't tell me it didnt.

Is your main beef what happened with Dave??

JV

[Eyeof]

To be honest Joe , yes it is. And by the way I kind of got dragged into this deal with you. I don't know you, before all this looking at your post you seem like a good enough guy and I really have no beef with you.

And also, to be honest with my line of work trust me I know the reality and the perception are never even close. I also understand the reality of business and all that around it and I know things happen for a reason. I was and am a huge fan of Dave Bickler and the sound they had with Survivor. I think it is a travisty that Fire Makes Steel was never released. At any rate, I know what you guys are saying.

Again, with my line of work I know that when you are on the inside things are so different and perceptions get destroyed. That's why just being a fan is good sometimes.

You know?

[MarcelJordan]

Joe, I have a bit of information about Dave's matter, Let me PM you. Thanks.

[Joe Vana]

To be honest Joe , yes it is. And by the way I kind of got dragged into this deal with you. I don't know you, before all this looking at your post you seem like a good enough guy and I really have no beef with you.

And also, to be honest with my line of work trust me I know the reality and the perception are never even close. I also understand the reality of business and all that around it and I know things happen for a reason. I was and am a huge fan of Dave Bickler and the sound they had with Survivor. I think it is a travisty that Fire Makes Steel was never released. At any rate, I know what you guys are saying.

Again, with my line of work I know that when you are on the inside things are so different and perceptions get destroyed. That's why just being a fan is good sometimes.

You know?

I agree 100%

Just please....and I mean this sincerely....understand that in my eyes attacking Frankie is like attacking a member of my family, that's why I get testy....I have a hard time looking at things from "a fans" perspective sometimes...I am way to close....If I attacked your brother you would stand up to his defense immediately....so no disrespect....and I will NEVER ever divulge private or "family business" on here....it's why I avoid the JP and I thing....it's family business...I love Frankie to death as a person, so it's hard for me to comment on some things..I hope you understand....

Thanks man.......JV

[crazy mar tay]

how about those cubs!!! weeeeee cubs cubs cubs division champs!!!

now thats something to be happy about for baseball / cubbie fans

[axecrew]

I should probably stay out of this?

But in an attempt to try to calm things down a bit I will say the following.

I can verify that BOTH Red13JoePa and Joe Vana are huge Survivor fans and are passionate about the bands music.
And sometimes that passion can get people angry, as is the case here. I would assume that all of us who are regular posters here on the Survivor board are true fans of the bands music, and that we would love it if all of our favorite members of the band got along well. Being big fans we hear stories about what has caused certain problems within the band, some of them are probably true, and some are probably false? If we could force all of the members of the band to get along with each other we would, but we can't.

As I have mentioned on here before there are certain jackasses that have ruined the Journey board on this site. It has usually been done because some people can't get past the fact that either Steve Perry or Jeff Scott Soto are no-longer in Journey.
And the Journey board has also been ruined because tons of people are constantly at one anothers throats.
I hope that we don't have that happen here on the Survivor board!!!
So please, everyone, lets all try our best to be civil with one another, and to remember that were all Survivor fans here, even if we don't always agree on what the bands members do!!!

I hear ya 100% there guy. But JoePA, eye, lark, axe talk so much shit and offer up nada of proof! they got a bug up there ass for Frankie for things they think they know or this or that. I all see is missinformation on there part at least what ive seen and I have been on here for a while.

You guys don't know shit of the real truth and Joe would know. He's worked with and been around JP from around CITG era til about 4 yrs ago and he knew frankie in those years as well. Now they are great friends and working together on a very cool project.

Joe gets asked his resume and he gives it and still lark you talk shit. Joe ACTUALLY KNOWS these guys and has worked with them and has heard all there tales and stories etc etc have you lark??? what do you know of survivor business??

JoePA , eye of..., axe and lark pretty much from what i can tell are here to bash frankie and talk of how bad the band sucks now. I hear or see little else from them. ohh yeah how great JP n Jamo are that 2.

I remained on the sidelines for too long. If you guys actually knew anything you'd sooo be singing a different tune. but, you guys are on the inside right?? you know it all?? Keep talking out of your asses...your so good at it.



c.m.

Since when do you get to talk for me,remind me when I've talked shit. I've spoken my opinion and my OPINION is as such....Frankie Sullivan is a good guitar player......there are those who are better....Frankie Sullivan can't hold Jim Peterik's jock strap as a songwriter,as evidence by his lack of productivity since Jim left.....Frankie Sullivan has a great ear for production on albums.....Frankie Sullivan is a very self-destructive individual,who spends way more time on unneccessary things than is needed,instead of the things that matter...Frankie Sullivan puts business before friendship and it has cost him dearly because of it....Frankie Sullivan wants to run Survivor his way and has wanted to for years,he has gotten his wish,but it's obvious that the band is no where near as popular as it was when Jimi and Jim were still in the band.....Frankie Sullivan seems to think the fans are fools and will buy whatever story he cooks up( see his excuse for the ceist and desist letter about the show on Sat.)....Would I want Frankie Sullivan to work on my album as a producer/guitar player? Absolutely.....would I want to be friends with him? NO,not the way he's treated his other "friends/family".

Joe Vana.... I respect your desire to not answer my question....based on what you did say,my original thoughts are correct....there has been a souring of your relationship with Jim..you alluded to it yourself when talking about how tight you were with him until 4 years ago. At least that's what you said in your post earlier.
I don't need to know the details....just the fact that you alluded to it and didn't deny it is enough for me,my purpose of bringing it up was simple....to let you know that there are others on here who also know things and it's not as an exclusive a club as some think....Again I do respect you and your reasons for not throwing friends/former friends under the bus....maybe Sullivan could take a few lessons from you. I do hope that for his sake Frankie is healthy...last time I spoke to him(3 or 4 years ago) he didn't look healthy...he looked really fried(tired)....and seemed to be suffering from a cold,even though it was July and about 90 degrees out that night. And Joe...please remember there's a difference between attacking Frankie and stating opinion,they often look the same to someone with an emotional investment,even if they aren't meant as the same.

I will hold on to my opinion and marty,slander,whomever will not change it. But fellas....please don't speak for me..when you do it looks like you're on the Survivor payroll.

[Joe Vana]

Frankie Sullivan can't hold Jim Peterik's jock strap as a songwriter,as evidence by his lack of productivity since Jim left.....Frankie Sullivan has a great ear for production on albums.....Frankie Sullivan is a very self-destructive individual,who spends way more time on unneccessary things than is needed,instead of the things that are needed for me..

Hi Axe Crew....

First....productivity levels and quality are two DIFFERENT things....YES, JP writes MORE songs....I write MORE songs than Frankie....BUT that does not make me better????? I agree JP writes ALOT more tunes....

However.....I think this sums things up for me....it applies to Frankie, even though I wrote it for me.....

Have a great day.....

A Lyric I wrote from "I Know" Mecca II - 2007

Many men..have tried..and failed before
They tried to take my pride....kick me on the floor...

But-then-they-soon-do-see
It’s not easy being....me
But I’m always the last man standing

Cause I know
You cannot deny me
I Know that life’s not fair
Oh I know…
I know when love it truly drives me your hate will never find me

[Red13JoePa]

First....productivity levels and quality are two DIFFERENT things....

This is a big Slander apologist line, too for why Ice Ages are more common than Survivor albums now.

And I'm sure you answer will be just as circular as his always are, but must quality and quantity be mutually exlusive?

Why can't have some more Survivor music sooner and wonder of wonders it STILL be good?

[Joe Vana]

First....productivity levels and quality are two DIFFERENT things....

This is a big Slander apologist line, too for why Ice Ages are more common than Survivor albums now.

And I'm sure you answer will be just as circular as his always are, but must quality and quantity be mutually exlusive?

Why can't have some more Survivor music sooner and wonder of wonders it STILL be good?

Hey JoePa.....

I wish there was a correct formula....but everybodies different....some guys write 100 songs a month and none are great....some write 10 and 2 are great....some write one a year and its spectacular...

It's a creative process, and until you wear the same shoes.....

JV

[Joe Vana]

I don't need to know the details....just the fact that you alluded to it and didn't deny it is enough for me,my purpose of bringing it up was simple....to let you know that there are others on here who also know things and it's not as an exclusive a club as some think....Again I do respect you and your reasons for not throwing friends/former friends under the bus....

Hey....

My "split" from Jim was discussed a ton on different boards....I have never seen any response anywhere near the truth...about 5 people know on my side, and who knows how many on his....

I feel I might never "go public" with what went on....or then again maybe I will....I have never been able to decide, but mudslinging is not my thing....no body wins and everybody gets dirty.....

JV

[axecrew]

Frankie Sullivan can't hold Jim Peterik's jock strap as a songwriter,as evidence by his lack of productivity since Jim left.....Frankie Sullivan has a great ear for production on albums.....Frankie Sullivan is a very self-destructive individual,who spends way more time on unneccessary things than is needed,instead of the things that are needed for me..

Hi Axe Crew....

First....productivity levels and quality are two DIFFERENT things....YES, JP writes MORE songs....I write MORE songs than Frankie....BUT that does not make me better????? I agree JP writes ALOT more tunes....

However.....I think this sums things up for me....it applies to Frankie, even though I wrote it for me.....

Have a great day.....

A Lyric I wrote from "I Know" Mecca II - 2007

Many men..have tried..and failed before
They tried to take my pride....kick me on the floor...

But-then-they-soon-do-see
It’s not easy being....me
But I’m always the last man standing

Cause I know
You cannot deny me
I Know that life’s not fair
Oh I know…
I know when love it truly drives me your hate will never find me

Joe you are 100% correct,there's quality and there's quantity and Jim Peterik has both. Since you feel the need to include yourself in the catagory,I'll ask you this.....How many hit songs have you and or Frankie written? How many nationally known artist have ask you or Frankie to write with them? Please don't be embarassed or shy,I won't think you're bragging if you list them.
I think I can confidentely say that Frankie has written every hit song that Survivor has ever had...correct? Well almost....if I remember correctly,and I always do,there is a common denominator in all those hits....Jim Peterik also wrote them.
Now how many "other "hits has Frankie had a hand in writing? Not sure that I know of any.Oh yes.. Rockin' into the Night",but I believe Mr. Smith also wrote that song....guess he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath also.
Now lets look at Jim Peterik......He co-wrote all the Survivor hits..we all know that. But now lets look at outside songs...for our purposes we'll only look at 1 other band......38 'Mother fucking' Special!!!! Jim Peterik had a hand in writing, what 95% of their hits. On their Greatest hits 2 cd set there were 36 songs on it.....he co-wrote 18 of them.And I hope you aren't naive enough to think 38 isn't quality or relevant. Need further proof.....How about the #1 hit "Vehicle" when he was a teenager.
So there's your quality and your productivity.....if you are honest with me and yourself,you know there's no way Frankie can possibly hold a candle to that track record.

Frankie's strength is producing...not songwriting. Thus my comments.And before you trot out your new album as proof of his writing skills.....I personally hope your album goes PLATINUM,but it won't be because of Frankie's writing ability. It's Frankie's weakness.....nothing wrong with that...we all have weaknesses.
Not quite sure what your lyrics have to do with anything....don't recall trying to tear you or Sullivan down. Never said I hated either one of you,hell I don't even know either one of you....never even met you....have met Sullivan many times and wasn't impressed with what I saw of him as a person. I will say this..both Jim and Frankie have their faults,no doubt about it.....but as Jim's World Stage shows have shown...Jim has a ton of friends who would be there for him...you, yourself, used to be one of them. How many would Frankie be able to call on for Frankie Sullivan's World Stage show? Besides you. My guess is not many. By the way I noticed you only addressed the songwriting subject....Am I to believe that you agree with me about everything else I spoke of.