"Paradise theatre" Amazing!!!!

[BRETT5150]

I just got "Grand illusion", "Pieces of eight" and "Paradise theatre" from amzon.com. I expected "Grand illusion" to be the pick of the bunch, but "Paradise theatre" is the one I've gotten into most. Sure "TGI" has their best hits like "Come sail away" etc. but its the continueity of "PT" that has impressed me most. Really, this album is a true masterpeice. "Half a penny, two a penny" knocked me out of my chair, and "She cares" is nothing I would've expected from Tommy, but its fantastic. Also, I'm not a fan of saxaphones, but the sax work on this album is incredible. I'm just getting more and more into this great band.

"The wooden nickle recordings"
"Equinox"
"Crystall ball"
"Cornerstone"
and "Kilroy was here"
are next on my list from amazon.com.

[MtlLady]

I just got "Grand illusion", "Pieces of eight" and "Paradise theatre" from amzon.com. I expected "Grand illusion" to be the pick of the bunch, but "Paradise theatre" is the one I've gotten into most. Sure "TGI" has their best hits like "Come sail away" etc. but its the continueity of "PT" that has impressed me most. Really, this album is a true masterpeice. "Half a penny, two a penny" knocked me out of my chair, and "She cares" is nothing I would've expected from Tommy, but its fantastic. Also, I'm not a fan of saxaphones, but the sax work on this album is incredible. I'm just getting more and more into this great band.

"The wooden nickle recordings"
"Equinox"
"Crystall ball"
"Cornerstone"
and "Kilroy was here"
are next on my list from amazon.com.

You're gonna love Equinox. One of my faves.

[gr8dane]

I just got "Grand illusion", "Pieces of eight" and "Paradise theatre" from amzon.com. I expected "Grand illusion" to be the pick of the bunch, but "Paradise theatre" is the one I've gotten into most. Sure "TGI" has their best hits like "Come sail away" etc. but its the continueity of "PT" that has impressed me most. Really, this album is a true masterpeice. "Half a penny, two a penny" knocked me out of my chair, and "She cares" is nothing I would've expected from Tommy, but its fantastic. Also, I'm not a fan of saxaphones, but the sax work on this album is incredible. I'm just getting more and more into this great band.

"The wooden nickle recordings"
"Equinox"
"Crystall ball"
"Cornerstone"
and "Kilroy was here"
are next on my list from amazon.com.

You're gonna love Equinox. One of my faves.

I agree.
But do yourself a favor,and get it last.
Equinox was the first Styx I got,and comparing,it was all downhill from there.
I like the wooden nickle better than than after Crystal Ball stuff.But not many will agree.
But welcome onboard.
Shop shop shop.

[bugsymalone]

How nice to be hearing these albums in their entirety for the first time!

PT really is a strong, cohesive album and, of course, their tour for it was one of the best in rock and roll history.

I agree with Amanda about Equinox. It is far and above my favorite Styx album. It really has an energy that cannot be beat.

As Gr8 says. Shop, shop!! Enjoy!


Bugsy

[Bearded Clam]

It's too bad that you are not getting, what I think, was a huge part of the package.
I would advise you to search for a cheap LP version on ebay just to experience
the whole enchilada while listening to the cd. Trust me, it was pretty cool at the time.

For me, back in the day, popping that record on the turntable, and sitting down with that cover and some recreational
________ * was alright.


* the author of this post and the website owners neither endorse or indulge in the use of any illegal substances. Kids, Just Say No.

[stabbim]

I like the wooden nickle better than than after Crystal Ball stuff.But not many will agree.
But welcome onboard.

The Wooden Nickel records do get a bad rap, and not altogether undeservedly, but there's a lot to like about them.

"A Day" is in my All-time Top 5.

[elmotano]

I like the wooden nickle better than than after Crystal Ball stuff.But not many will agree.
But welcome onboard.

The Wooden Nickel records do get a bad rap, and not altogether undeservedly, but there's a lot to like about them.

"A Day" is in my All-time Top 5.

I agree, the Wooden Nickel era has many nuggets.

[Rockwriter]

I like the wooden nickle better than than after Crystal Ball stuff.But not many will agree.
But welcome onboard.

The Wooden Nickel records do get a bad rap, and not altogether undeservedly, but there's a lot to like about them.

"A Day" is in my All-time Top 5.

I LOVE "A Day". For me it's the only piece of true progressive rock Styx ever recorded, in the sense that it was TRULY progressive without being a cheap knockoff of another, better band. For the most part when Styx attempted prog rock in that era I thought they came off like a second-rate, Americanized, nowhere-near-as-good-musically version of Yes, Genesis, et al, or even an American Uriah Heep with a detour through Kansas. But "A Day" is great, and there are a few other songs from that era that kinda point the way to what I personally felt the band was best at, which is sort of a commercialized pop/rock response to British prog rock that really came to fruition from 'Equinox' through 'Pieces of Eight'.

Songs like "Evil Eyes", "Father OSA", and "Lady" (obviously) hinted at the writer Dennis was going to become, and in JY's case I actually think he was more diverse early on. Later he wrote in narrower and narrower parameters, but early on he wrote a bit more adventurously. I particularly like "Southern Woman" from him in that era. And JC was really a creative writer, almost to his detriment. You couldn't even tell his songs were the same person sometimes, which is cool, but can make it harder for a band to establish a readily identifiable sound. I like a lot of his stuff even though it can be hit and miss.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[classicstyxfan]

it's nice to see/read the Wooden Nickel era getting some love.....I acknowledge not every song is a classic, but it was music from this era that 1st drew me to Styx ( along with Equinox and Crystal Ball )

In context, even Styx 1st album offers ataste of things to come. listen to Dennis sing the "Mother Natures matinee" section of side 1 or "what has come between us", and imagine if you can, never hearing of Styx prior to that.......

A Day is awesome..........and Lady when it first was played on the radio stopped me in my tracks at least the 1st 6 times I heard it.

Songs like "I'm gonna make you feel it" and Jonas Psalter, while certainly not lyrically impressive sound great when you turn the volume way up.

I'd gladly trade you Cornerstone for a best of Wooden Nickle compilation.....I'd be glad to throw in KWH and Brave New World too ( just to be rid of them ! )

[LtVanish]

No doubt that Crystal Ball is the Darkhorse of the Styx albums, it is just a great album nobody gives the time of day.

[MtlLady]

No doubt that Crystal Ball is the Darkhorse of the Styx albums, it is just a great album nobody gives the time of day.

I have to agree with that statement. Crystal Ball is wonderful too.

But Equinox ....... Nothing compares.

[bugsymalone]

Agreeing with several of you here. "A Day" is a terrific song. The jazzy musical break is so cool in that one.

JY has two of his best writing efforts on the WN recordings -- "Young Man" and "Southern Woman." Excellent songs all around. Killer keyboard breaks in both of them, too.

The WN recordings are ones I have to cherry pick as to what I like. I will say that I like all of Styx II -- the most accessible music of the 4 albums from that era IMO.

But Equinox ....... Nothing compares.

Yep. Again.


Bugsy

[BidForGreen]

No doubt that Crystal Ball is the Darkhorse of the Styx albums, it is just a great album nobody gives the time of day.

I disagree. Crystal Ball was a step back from Equinox. Some major weak tracks on that LP. Equinox is solid throughout - Midnight Ride ROCKS!

[birdynumnum]

That's the great thing about Styx. All of their albums are great in their own way. I find I always have different favorite albums depending on what time you ask. Right now, Crystal Ball is my favorite. The only albums that have never been my favorites during anytime were from KWH and any album after. But the WN, KWH and any albums after KWH still have at least a golden nugget or two on them. PT was a masterpiece except for She cares. Stuck out like a sore, pussed filled, scabby thumb. The worst Styx song ever. That's just not my opinion either. It's a fact. (OK maybe not, but it still sucks IMO, lol)

[BidForGreen]

That's the great thing about Styx. All of their albums are great in their own way. I find I always have different favorite albums depending on what time you ask. Right now, Crystal Ball is my favorite. The only albums that have never been my favorites during anytime were from KWH and any album after. But the WN, KWH and any albums after KWH still have at least a golden nugget or two on them. PT was a masterpiece except for She cares. Stuck out like a sore, pussed filled, scabby thumb. The worst Styx song ever. That's just not my opinion either. It's a fact. (OK maybe not, but it still sucks IMO, lol)

This is an opinion of course, but Half Penny Two Penny is JY's signature moment in Styx. Ironic that it wasn't even his most played song on that ALBUM!

I agree on She Cares - it doesn't really fit the theme of the album nor the styles in the album. A Cornerstone leftover?

I would also argue that Lonely People is underrated too.

[birdynumnum]

It's funny too how some songs grow better with age. I grew up with Styx in the late seventies to early eighties and some songs I hated, such as Sing for the day, Boat on the River, First Time, She cares etc., and except for She Cares, I don't mind those songs now. I guess back then, being a young teenager, I identified myself with Styx, and was embarrassed by the sappiness of those songs, whereas now I just judge the songs on their own merit.

[chowhall]

It's funny too how some songs grow better with age. I grew up with Styx in the late seventies to early eighties and some songs I hated, such as Sing for the day, Boat on the River, First Time, She cares etc., and except for She Cares, I don't mind those songs now. I guess back then, being a young teenager, I identified myself with Styx, and was embarrassed by the sappiness of those songs, whereas now I just judge the songs on their own merit.

My experience is similar except that I still don't like Sing for the day, First Time, or She Cares. Boat on the River I've always liked.

[bugsymalone]

I would also argue that Lonely People is underrated too.

Don't get me started on this one! One of DDY's VERY best in my view. The lyrics are so strong. The instrumental break is genius. Plus that NOTE he hits in the end. Superb songwriting and delivery.

My only quarrel with it is that loooooong spoken intro to it. I know what he is trying to say there, but why in front of THAT song?


Bugsy

[birdynumnum]

I like the intro, sort of gave a backround and atmosphere to the song. Kind of Pink Floydish I thought. It is one of my favorite songs on PT.

[Grotelul]

I just got "Grand illusion", "Pieces of eight" and "Paradise theatre" from amzon.com. I expected "Grand illusion" to be the pick of the bunch, but "Paradise theatre" is the one I've gotten into most. Sure "TGI" has their best hits like "Come sail away" etc. but its the continueity of "PT" that has impressed me most. Really, this album is a true masterpeice. "Half a penny, two a penny" knocked me out of my chair, and "She cares" is nothing I would've expected from Tommy, but its fantastic. Also, I'm not a fan of saxaphones, but the sax work on this album is incredible. I'm just getting more and more into this great band.

"The wooden nickle recordings"
"Equinox"
"Crystall ball"
"Cornerstone"
and "Kilroy was here"
are next on my list from amazon.com.

Paradise Theatre is a good album. Lots of good tunes..Rockin The Paradise, Too Much Time, Best of Times, Snowblind, Half-Penny Two Penny. My favorites will always be The Grand Illusion, Pieces of Eight, Equinox, Crystal Ball. They had a BIG sound and they were more of a BAND during those moments. With Cornerstone things changed..new studio, new direction... mostly Dennis' desire to go more pop. Now some say..what about Tommy's softer tunes? Well..if Dennis was DIRECTING the band as he claims, he was mainly responsible then. Some 30 years later, Cornerstone has some decent tunes but for me, too much of it didn't stand the test of time. Babe, First Time, Eddie, Never Say Never. Not good stuff. Some like Why Me...it's an okay tune but more of a Dennis solo tune. Where are Tommy's and JY's influence in that song? Could have brought in a studio guy to play their parts. Kilroy went into another direction, away from the BAND's direction and mostly into Dennis' direction. BIG idea, but not well planned or thought out. It could have been something VERY big, but failed choices by mainly Dennis created a situation where the band was losing money on the road and creating a situation where it eventually ended that era of Styx.

[stabbim]

I go back and forth on Paradise Theater. It was a favorite back in the day, but my enthusiasm for it has waned over time -- maybe from overexposure to the tunes, maybe just my tastes changing. These days I tend to think of it as an album with some strong writing and performances, hampered by bland production choices (all of the songs come off far better live, even on CITA) but it's very good for what it is, and "Best Of Times" is definitely my favorite of the post-Po8 DDY ballads.

[Rockwriter]

I just got "Grand illusion", "Pieces of eight" and "Paradise theatre" from amzon.com. I expected "Grand illusion" to be the pick of the bunch, but "Paradise theatre" is the one I've gotten into most. Sure "TGI" has their best hits like "Come sail away" etc. but its the continueity of "PT" that has impressed me most. Really, this album is a true masterpeice. "Half a penny, two a penny" knocked me out of my chair, and "She cares" is nothing I would've expected from Tommy, but its fantastic. Also, I'm not a fan of saxaphones, but the sax work on this album is incredible. I'm just getting more and more into this great band.

"The wooden nickle recordings"
"Equinox"
"Crystall ball"
"Cornerstone"
and "Kilroy was here"
are next on my list from amazon.com.

Paradise Theatre is a good album. Lots of good tunes..Rockin The Paradise, Too Much Time, Best of Times, Snowblind, Half-Penny Two Penny. My favorites will always be The Grand Illusion, Pieces of Eight, Equinox, Crystal Ball. They had a BIG sound and they were more of a BAND during those moments. With Cornerstone things changed..new studio, new direction... mostly Dennis' desire to go more pop. Now some say..what about Tommy's softer tunes? Well..if Dennis was DIRECTING the band as he claims, he was mainly responsible then. Some 30 years later, Cornerstone has some decent tunes but for me, too much of it didn't stand the test of time. Babe, First Time, Eddie, Never Say Never. Not good stuff. Some like Why Me...it's an okay tune but more of a Dennis solo tune. Where are Tommy's and JY's influence in that song? Could have brought in a studio guy to play their parts. Kilroy went into another direction, away from the BAND's direction and mostly into Dennis' direction. BIG idea, but not well planned or thought out. It could have been something VERY big, but failed choices by mainly Dennis created a situation where the band was losing money on the road and creating a situation where it eventually ended that era of Styx.

You know what, I think JY added a great deal to "Why Me". I reallly love his trade-off solo with the sax, and part of what I like about it is that it's atypical of JY. It shows him in a different light, and I also love the backing vocals on that song, most of which sound like Tommy to me. I consider that one a little bit of an undiscovered gem. I also like "Babe"; I think it's a very well-written song of its kind, and well-recorded, though I understand that stylistically it might not be every classic Styx fan's cup of tea. And I even kinda dig "Eddie" in some crazy way, though it's certainly out of context with the entire rest of the record. "Never Say Never", I like the music but think the lyric is dumb, and "First Time" I'll readily admit I could live without. But in retrospect I tend to think that 'Cornerstone' is a better record than I sometimes give it credit for. The recording is about as crystal clear as it gets, and in addition to the other songs we've talked about, "Lights", "Boat on the River", "Borrowed Time" and "Love in the Midnight" are great.

For me 'Paradise Theatre' is Styx' most original album. Much as I like 'The Grand Illusion', you could fairly say that there were still some Kansas-type things there, or other types of obvious influences. 'Paradise Theatre' is a record that I don't think sounds like Kansas, nor Yes, nor Journey, nor Boston, nor REO . . . it sounds like Styx. I love the package, love the thread of the songs, love the idea that drove the album, and think that the recording and production elements are about as good as it gets. Performances are great, and I love the diversity of the songs. I agree that "She Cares" is the weakest track, but I don't think it's terrible, just not right for the album. But aside from Tommy's contribution being a little slim, Dennis and JY were just on fire for that record.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[stabbim]

For me 'Paradise Theatre' is Styx' most original album. Much as I like 'The Grand Illusion', you could fairly say that there were still some Kansas-type things there, or other types of obvious influences. 'Paradise Theatre' is a record that I don't think sounds like Kansas, nor Yes, nor Journey, nor Boston, nor REO . . . it sounds like Styx. I love the package, love the thread of the songs, love the idea that drove the album, and think that the recording and production elements are about as good as it gets. Performances are great, and I love the diversity of the songs. I agree that "She Cares" is the weakest track, but I don't think it's terrible, just not right for the album. But aside from Tommy's contribution being a little slim, Dennis and JY were just on fire for that record.

Some good points there. Dig it or not (and like I said, I run hot and cold on it) PT has a really solid, unified aesthetic which extends from the music to the concept to the production to the packaging to the marketing to the stage show and back again. I don't know about most "original," but IMO it's the classic line-up's most cohesive album -- you'd have to stretch back to Equinox to find something that hangs together quite as comfortably.

Strangely enough, Equinox also features heavy contribution and collaboration from JY & DDY, while JC's work was largely on the periphery. Seems that quote from GB about JY & DDY belonging in the same band makes more sense the more one considers it....and TS (like JC before him and GB after) does seem in some ways to be the odd man out, songwriting-wise.

[Rockwriter]

For me 'Paradise Theatre' is Styx' most original album. Much as I like 'The Grand Illusion', you could fairly say that there were still some Kansas-type things there, or other types of obvious influences. 'Paradise Theatre' is a record that I don't think sounds like Kansas, nor Yes, nor Journey, nor Boston, nor REO . . . it sounds like Styx. I love the package, love the thread of the songs, love the idea that drove the album, and think that the recording and production elements are about as good as it gets. Performances are great, and I love the diversity of the songs. I agree that "She Cares" is the weakest track, but I don't think it's terrible, just not right for the album. But aside from Tommy's contribution being a little slim, Dennis and JY were just on fire for that record.

Some good points there. Dig it or not (and like I said, I run hot and cold on it) PT has a really solid, unified aesthetic which extends from the music to the concept to the production to the packaging to the marketing to the stage show and back again. I don't know about most "original," but IMO it's the classic line-up's most cohesive album -- you'd have to stretch back to Equinox to find something that hangs together quite as comfortably.

Strangely enough, Equinox also features heavy contribution and collaboration from JY & DDY, while JC's work was largely on the periphery. Seems that quote from GB about JY & DDY belonging in the same band makes more sense the more one considers it....and TS (like JC before him and GB after) does seem in some ways to be the odd man out, songwriting-wise.

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and I tend to agree that JY and Dennis have complementary strengths. What I find a little bit odd about the extreme nature of their falling out is that almost everyone who worked with them tends to agree that, despite the public perception of the band being about Dennis and Tommy, it was really JY who was Dennis' right hand in administering the decision-making, as well as the recording/producing sides of the band. When they were touring in the early years with JC, JY and Dennis often chose to room together, and later with Tommy before they graduated to buses it would be JY and Dennis in one car, Tommy, Chuck and John in another. I know JC felt that he was always battling Dennis and JY, who were generally unified against him, and Tommy in his interview with me seemed to lament that same scenario. So it seems to me that for many years they had a mutually respectful partnership that worked very well despite their differences, and on a personal level they are from similar social and educational backgrounds and hold many of the same core values. They are probably in all sincerity the two members of the band who are the most alike, apart from musical tastes. So it's interesting that they are the two who have wound up the most estranged. I've often wondered if it's not BECAUSE they are the most alike.

Of course there are quite a few examples of good three-way co-writing, but I tend to agree that Dennis and JY worked well together. JY of course brings a harder element to Dennis' work, reigns him in from being a little preachy or sentimental, while Dennis brings a sense of melody to the songs that JY generally lacks, as well as keeping JY from getting too wordy, which is what I always point to as JY's weakness as a writer.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[StyxCollector]

You know what, I think JY added a great deal to "Why Me". I reallly love his trade-off solo with the sax, and part of what I like about it is that it's atypical of JY. It shows him in a different light, and I also love the backing vocals on that song, most of which sound like Tommy to me.

Well, rumor has it that the sax/guitar thing came in late in the process and it was all guitar solo at one point. Wouldn't it be interesting to hear the contrast in versions? To me Cornerstone is the bridge album, and while it's clear that it was all written separately, it would lead them to a more band-like effort with PT.

To pile on, believe it or not, as much as Grand Illusion is my favorite Styx album, I tend to listen more to PT or KWH. I would also agree that PT is the most cohesive album Styx has ever done AND that it sounds the most like Styx. You have everything from ballads to rockers and they all sit comfortably. It's also got one of the best Styx songs ever (IMHO - "Nothing Ever GOes As Planned") and one of the worst ("She Cares").

Interesting take that TS was the outsider like JC, and that JY and DDY are more alike than dissimilar. What's interesting about that is if you look at TS' contributions, he was always the "country bumpkin". I mean, he was writing outsider songs and was more soft than DDY before DDY did "Babe". So in that sense TS is as he always was - then and now. It's why Shaw Blades fits him like a glove.

[BRETT5150]

As I listen to it more, "Lonely people" is the standout track. Those lyrics "Her silver screen was stained with memories as Cagney shot them down" are some of the best lyrics ever written. DeYoung in my opinion, is so crucial and important to Styx, its incredible. It beats me how he was so mistreated after 2000. He belongs and deserves to be back in Styx, ASAP. Lawrance Gowan has no right to be seeing "Lady" and "Come sail away" in my opinion. Its like, when, Eric Carr sang "Beth" on a Kiss Greatest hits album back in 89. It should'nt of been done or attempted, songs so close to the writer/originater should be left alone. "Beth" belonged to Peter Criss, and so did "Lady" and "Come sail away" to Dennis. Its absolutey wrong.

[stabbim]

[sound of other shoe finally being dropped]

Grrr. Arrrgh.

Sigh.

[birdynumnum]

[quote="Rockwriter"][quote="stabbim"][quote="Rockwriter"]
They are probably in all sincerity the two members of the band who are the most alike, apart from musical tastes. So it's interesting that they are the two who have wound up the most estranged. I've often wondered if it's not BECAUSE they are the most alike.

You're probably right. It is usually the ones we are closest to that we feel most betrayed by and tend to be more unforgiving when that trust is broken.

[StyxCollector]

[sound of other shoe finally being dropped]

Grrr. Arrrgh.

Sigh.

Come on, it was fun while it lasted.

[stabbim]

Sigh.

Come on, it was fun while it lasted.

Fair enough. S'pose we could carry on, regardless...

I would also agree that PT is the most cohesive album Styx has ever done AND that it sounds the most like Styx. You have everything from ballads to rockers and they all sit comfortably. It's also got one of the best Styx songs ever (IMHO - "Nothing Ever GOes As Planned") and one of the worst ("She Cares").

I don't regard "She Cares" with as much disdain as the average Styx fan seems to. I don't especially like it, but attempting to look at it objectively, I don't see too much of a qualitative difference from most of the band's work at that time, especially from a production/arrangement standpoint. I think the major issues are that the lyrics don't have anything to do with the concept of the album, and that the whole thing feels like a bit of a left turn TS (even if the way was already paved with stuff like "Never Say Never.") Perhaps if DDY had sung this one it would have garnered a different reaction.

Interesting take that TS was the outsider like JC, and that JY and DDY are more alike than dissimilar. What's interesting about that is if you look at TS' contributions, he was always the "country bumpkin".

Not always, but that was an element that he brought to the table which, for better or worse (better IMO), diversified the band's sound. It's an element that's missing from PT, which is a very urban-sounding album.