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Paradise Theater

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Postby Rockwriter » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:37 am

stabbim wrote:
StyxCollector wrote:
stabbim wrote:
Sigh.


Come on, it was fun while it lasted.


Fair enough. S'pose we could carry on, regardless...

StyxCollector wrote:I would also agree that PT is the most cohesive album Styx has ever done AND that it sounds the most like Styx. You have everything from ballads to rockers and they all sit comfortably. It's also got one of the best Styx songs ever (IMHO - "Nothing Ever GOes As Planned") and one of the worst ("She Cares").


I don't regard "She Cares" with as much disdain as the average Styx fan seems to. I don't especially like it, but attempting to look at it objectively, I don't see too much of a qualitative difference from most of the band's work at that time, especially from a production/arrangement standpoint. I think the major issues are that the lyrics don't have anything to do with the concept of the album, and that the whole thing feels like a bit of a left turn TS (even if the way was already paved with stuff like "Never Say Never.") Perhaps if DDY had sung this one it would have garnered a different reaction.

StyxCollector wrote:Interesting take that TS was the outsider like JC, and that JY and DDY are more alike than dissimilar. What's interesting about that is if you look at TS' contributions, he was always the "country bumpkin".


Not always, but that was an element that he brought to the table which, for better or worse (better IMO), diversified the band's sound. It's an element that's missing from PT, which is a very urban-sounding album.



PT really is very urban-sounding, and interestingly enough, Tommy's main contribution, "Too Much Time", is a track that sits comfortably in that company, very different in some ways than much of his previous writing. Now that I think of it, that song fits in very well with everything Dennis and JY wrote for PT, and of course he made an uncredited but very important contribution to "Snowblind" as well as writing the main guitar figure for "Rockin' The Paradise". It's just "She Cares" that sticks out from the group. I actually don't dislike "She Cares", I just think it sounds like a B-side from a Tommy solo record as opposed to a track from PT. I don't think it's terrible, it has many solid elements (Vocal, sax solo, arrangement, etc), it just doesn't work in the collection. On the fade of that song, when Tommy is singing "Wo-wo-wo-wo-wo-wo-way that it goes" several times, on the last audible one you can hear Dennis join in, and even though it's a really small spot in the song, I've always thought it was really a nice touch, as is Tommy's solo, Steve Eisen's solo, and Dennis' piano line. It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Dennis singing "She Cares"? Hmmm, I tend to think he can sing a lot of different styles well, but I see that as a stretch. Hard to say unless you've actually heard it, though. I like Tommy's vocal peformance as is on the existing track.


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Postby Blue Falcon » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:09 am

Rockwriter wrote: It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Sterling


Yeah, that line "Treats me like a human (LIKE A HYOOOOOOOMAN)" doesn't really do it for me either. Methinks Tommy was indulging in some white powder-like substance at the time he wrote this...
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Postby elmotano » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:52 am

Blue Falcon wrote:
Rockwriter wrote: It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Sterling


Yeah, that line "Treats me like a human (LIKE A HYOOOOOOOMAN)" doesn't really do it for me either. Methinks Tommy was indulging in some white powder-like substance at the time he wrote this...


Ah the good old days, I wonder if any one still calls Dennis "Doctor"....that must have been some pill case ;)
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Postby birdynumnum » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:25 am

[quote="Rockwriter"][quote="stabbim"][quote="StyxCollector"][quote="stabbim"]

I just think it sounds like a B-side from a Tommy solo record as opposed to a track from PT.
Sterling[/quote]

When I first heard PT, although I had no clue about any trouble within the band, I remember being worried about whether TS was on his way out since She Cares was so out of wack with the rest of the album, and even as a Styx song. It really sounded like a TS solo song to me. Nevertheless, TMTOMH and the work on Snowblind fit very nicely within PT.
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Postby stabbim » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:09 am

Rockwriter wrote:I actually don't dislike "She Cares", I just think it sounds like a B-side from a Tommy solo record as opposed to a track from PT. I don't think it's terrible, it has many solid elements (Vocal, sax solo, arrangement, etc), it just doesn't work in the collection.



Right. It wouldn't be amongst my favorite tracks regardless, but I think a big part of its unpopularity comes from the context. I don't think it's quite as big a curve ball as some other folks seem to, though...to my ears, the harmonies in the "way it goes" bridge section are very Stygian, and the overall tone of the song is more similar to "Never Say Never" or "Why Me" or "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" than any of the above songs are to the band's pre-Cornerstone material.


Rockwriter wrote:On the fade of that song, when Tommy is singing "Wo-wo-wo-wo-wo-wo-way that it goes" several times, on the last audible one you can hear Dennis join in, and even though it's a really small spot in the song, I've always thought it was really a nice touch, as is Tommy's solo, Steve Eisen's solo, and Dennis' piano line.



Yeah, I'm a sucker for those little moments in multi-vocalist groups when someone who is not the lead singer of a tune peeks out of the background for a tiny, isolated moment (see also: "New Kid In Town" and "Say You Love Me.")


Rockwriter wrote:Dennis singing "She Cares"? Hmmm, I tend to think he can sing a lot of different styles well, but I see that as a stretch. Hard to say unless you've actually heard it, though. I like Tommy's vocal peformance as is on the existing track.



I didn't mean in terms of pure chops, but persona and vibe. DDY does breezy pop pretty well when he manages to restrain his more grandiose reflexes, and maybe folks would have more readily accepted the tune coming from him than from TS -- certainly the lyric seems more natural to the DDY wheelhouse.
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Postby BidForGreen » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:54 pm

elmotano wrote:
Blue Falcon wrote:
Rockwriter wrote: It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Sterling


Yeah, that line "Treats me like a human (LIKE A HYOOOOOOOMAN)" doesn't really do it for me either. Methinks Tommy was indulging in some white powder-like substance at the time he wrote this...


Ah the good old days, I wonder if any one still calls Dennis "Doctor"....that must have been some pill case ;)


Sterling can maybe shed light, but I thought I read in his book the Doctor reference comes from his hypochndria and always carrying a case with tons of vitamins?
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Postby sadie65 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:09 pm

BidForGreen wrote:
elmotano wrote:
Blue Falcon wrote:
Rockwriter wrote: It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Sterling


Yeah, that line "Treats me like a human (LIKE A HYOOOOOOOMAN)" doesn't really do it for me either. Methinks Tommy was indulging in some white powder-like substance at the time he wrote this...


Ah the good old days, I wonder if any one still calls Dennis "Doctor"....that must have been some pill case ;)


Sterling can maybe shed light, but I thought I read in his book the Doctor reference comes from his hypochndria and always carrying a case with tons of vitamins?


I've heard 2 very different versions of why he was referred to as "doctor". I'm curious as to what the prevailing story is.
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Postby Zan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:31 pm

sadie65 wrote:I've heard 2 very different versions of why he was referred to as "doctor". I'm curious as to what the prevailing story is.




I've heard two as well, but one of them was from a fan who was guessing that DeYoung "doctored" all Styx's music. :lol: The rest of the times have all been about the hypochondria/vitamin thing.
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Postby Rockwriter » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:38 am

BidForGreen wrote:
elmotano wrote:
Blue Falcon wrote:
Rockwriter wrote: It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Sterling


Yeah, that line "Treats me like a human (LIKE A HYOOOOOOOMAN)" doesn't really do it for me either. Methinks Tommy was indulging in some white powder-like substance at the time he wrote this...


Ah the good old days, I wonder if any one still calls Dennis "Doctor"....that must have been some pill case ;)


Sterling can maybe shed light, but I thought I read in his book the Doctor reference comes from his hypochndria and always carrying a case with tons of vitamins?


What I've always heard is that Dennis carried so many vitamins and supplements with him on the road that when the band would have to go through baggage checks while traveling, the customs agents would sometimes ask Dennis if he was a doctor, which led to the nickname. It's no secret that Dennis also smoked pot for a relatively short while, and of course "Doctor" was slang for pot as well, so I don't know if that played into it or not. As far as any other kind of pills or whatever, I can sincerely say that I've never, ever heard any other stories or allegations about Dennis and drugs other than that he smoked pot in some of the early years, stopping in 1976 after a severe episode of depression which he thought may have been tied to marijuana use. As far as I have ever heard he turned vehemently against any and all drugs from that point on (unless you regard beer as a drug, LOL), and remains adamantly so to this day. If you read the three-part series from the Chicago Sun Times written by Rick Kogan during the Grand Decathlon tour, there's a scene where one of the horn players is in the limo and he fires up a joint, and one of the other guys tells him, "Hey, don't do that, Dennis is in the next car." So by that time it was understood that he was adamantly opposed to anything like that going on around him and would let you know about it.

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Postby elmotano » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:48 am

Rockwriter wrote:
BidForGreen wrote:
elmotano wrote:
Blue Falcon wrote:
Rockwriter wrote: It's really probably the lyric that doesn't do it for me on this song. If it had appeared on an early Eagles album it might have worked better than on a later Styx album.

Sterling


Yeah, that line "Treats me like a human (LIKE A HYOOOOOOOMAN)" doesn't really do it for me either. Methinks Tommy was indulging in some white powder-like substance at the time he wrote this...


Ah the good old days, I wonder if any one still calls Dennis "Doctor"....that must have been some pill case ;)


Sterling can maybe shed light, but I thought I read in his book the Doctor reference comes from his hypochndria and always carrying a case with tons of vitamins?


What I've always heard is that Dennis carried so many vitamins and supplements with him on the road that when the band would have to go through baggage checks while traveling, the customs agents would sometimes ask Dennis if he was a doctor, which led to the nickname. It's no secret that Dennis also smoked pot for a relatively short while, and of course "Doctor" was slang for pot as well, so I don't know if that played into it or not. As far as any other kind of pills or whatever, I can sincerely say that I've never, ever heard any other stories or allegations about Dennis and drugs other than that he smoked pot in some of the early years, stopping in 1976 after a severe episode of depression which he thought may have been tied to marijuana use. As far as I have ever heard he turned vehemently against any and all drugs from that point on (unless you regard beer as a drug, LOL), and remains adamantly so to this day. If you read the three-part series from the Chicago Sun Times written by Rick Kogan during the Grand Decathlon tour, there's a scene where one of the horn players is in the limo and he fires up a joint, and one of the other guys tells him, "Hey, don't do that, Dennis is in the next car." So by that time it was understood that he was adamantly opposed to anything like that going on around him and would let you know about it.

Sterling


Anybody know the other story? This isn't the one I had heard, back in the day.
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Postby StyxCollector » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:31 am

elmotano wrote:Anybody know the other story? This isn't the one I had heard, back in the day.


Sterling's version is the story I've heard for years. I didn't know of any other accounts.
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Postby brywool » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:16 am

LtVanish wrote:No doubt that Crystal Ball is the Darkhorse of the Styx albums, it is just a great album nobody gives the time of day.


My favorite Styx album.

Crystal Ball was a really great album. Had a great single song "Mademoiselle" that should've done really well for the band. I can't remember ever hearing it back then on the radio. It was pretty much "Lady", "Lorelei" and nothing up until "Come Sail Away" as far as hit radio. So nothing really happened from the Crystal Ball album. Not sure if it was pushed much. I remember when I used to collect records that you could find the Mademoiselle single in a lot of used record stores. Great song.
Ballerina was also a brilliant track. It's too bad that the end of it kind of went on too long because it's just a really solid song.
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